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WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:21:00 - [1] Despite the fact that I am pleased with the upcoming changes to the war declaration system (I am currently a carebear), I also understand how much this change will adversely affect many members of the Privateers Alliance (PA) that actually enjoy a good fight, but don't want to deal with the blobs and politics of 0.0 space. I also understand the challenges that would be entailed in trying to limit oneself to low-security PvP (flexibility of movement, etc., is all limited). I therefor propose the following idea: - Create two alliances, let's simply call them Black Alliance (BA) and White Alliance (WA) for this discussion, but in fact you could keep the PA alliance and simply create a second one. - Have one of these Alliances declare war on the other. Have the other Alliance pay 25M ISK per week to the one that is paying for the war dec. - Allow any corporation that wanted to join either BA or WA to do so for a weekly fee... say 5M ISK per week per corp. - Any corp wanting to join would have to submit a request to the leaders of BA and WA and it would be the leaders of BA and WA that would decide which alliance the corp would actually get to join. The leaders would try to keep approximately the same number of members in each alliance. It might be that you allow a corp to request a specific alliance if they have a friendly corp in that alliance already, but maybe charge them slightly more for that request and only allow it if it doesn't throw the sides off by too much. What you'd end up with would be a "War Club", for all intents and purposes, that was capable of waging war against opposing alliance members, anywhere they want, without fear of being Concordiconked or blobbed by some 0.0 alliance. You'd not have as many potential war targets as the Privateers currently enjoy, but all of the targets you do have would be looking for exactly the kind of action that everyone else in the club was after. You'd not have any carebear corps complaining, because they'd only be in the line of fire if they purposefully joined either the WA or the BA. This strikes me as an ideal way for any small corp to start to get a real feel for PvP without getting pushed in over their heads by jumping out to 0.0 and without having to deal with the limitations of low-security. Now, for the members of Privateers that were strictly interested in ganking haulers and looting their fat cargo holds, such a "War Club" might not prove interesting... but for the folks who were truly looking for a good fight, I think this might be a good solution? Thoughts? Wred ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:24:00 - [2] Nahh.. but with thier current whining and inability to take thier own medicine to "adapt" I suggest we change their name to: PrivaTears Wahhhhhhhhhh ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
RevelationX	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:25:00 - [3] Yea this is similar to factional warfare, CCP are going to make it so u can join a Faction's "Army" and fighter other members of the enemy faction "But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet, Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:27:00 - [4] I can't see the basic idea working for the Privateers as they are not doing this entirely for the pvp. Nothing stops them from finding mutual pvp partners right now in the current system. They are doing it for the loot. Blanket wars on as many corps and alliances in empire as they can so they can gank their haulers as well as other well fitted combat ships. Also war decs on 0.0 alliances to gank their rat loot haulers on their way to Jita and Rens while the main body of their pvp fleet is busy deep in 0.0 with the great war and other such conflicts. Thats what the Privateers want to save from this change, not that they might miss so much great pvp. To them I say: Adapt. Focus on a few targets for a week, then move on to another few. It won't kill you. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Kyoi	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:30:00 - [5] Or they could just quit, Im loving the Privateer whines at the moment ahh sweet Carebear Jita 4-4 flavoured tears.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:45:00 - [6] To be clear on my stance towards them, I have no problem with the concept of being a privateer and war decing non-combat corps that are heavy on industry in hopes of scoring some loot like tech 2 components. I think that is an integral part of the game like 0.0 alliance wars, player pirates and roleplayers. But as far as one body being able to war dec so many people in one wide net toss, I do agree it is a massive flaw in the game mechanics that has led to this. And on top of that it makes no sense. If you have to apply for a legal war, there is a reason for that and that is to ensure that wars being declared are justified and if not they don't snowball out of control. They originally introduced war fees for that reason. Now that is no longer working as a deterant for blanket war decs they have to up the price per additional war dec. Seems fair to me and makes a tonne of sense when you think about it from outide the debate. Because if there is an organisation that gives you legal rights to attack someone for a price, they would impose a volume limit of some kind to stop that turning into an abuse of the system letting to attack a lot of people. I don't expect the Privateers to see that point of view though. They want their play style just the way they like it. Tough. They won't get it if those changed make it in the game. They need to deal with it by admitting it makes sense and stop thinking about what they want all the time, or stop playing. Because no one in this game is going to have it exactly the way they like it. The Devs can't cater to that all the time. Because where one person wins another loses and they are back to square one again in trying to keep 'everyone' happy which is impossible in a game this complex where people have their own individual desires. Privateers want to keep things the way they are then someone else has to lose. They need to face that truth and not be selfish. Otherwise online games are not what they are looking for and they should stick to single player games where they can have it all their own way without harming anyone elses desires. Bottom line is they can still war dec non-pvp corps. They just have to be more focused about it and not cast as wide a net. Try to catch the whale guys, not a shaol of whitebait. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 15:56:00 - [7] At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. One thing I did bring from all this complaining about Privateers and wardecs was a great hatred of Astral Wolves. Yarr and all that ---------------------- Boom goes the ship! Squish goes the pilot!
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Aille Pluthrak At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. Respect.
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr Exiled.	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:12:00 - [9] Quote: At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. One thing I did bring from all this complaining about Privateers and wardecs was a great hatred of Astral Wolves. Yarr and all that YARRRR!! Thats more like it, props to you mate :)
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:18:00 - [10] I know know, theres a place called 0.0...
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:43:00 - [11] If it's loot they are after, nothing is stopping them from 25 domi suicide blobbing a BoB/alt corp freighter.
Arron S Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Soporo If it's loot they are after, nothing is stopping them from 25 domi suicide blobbing a BoB/alt corp freighter. Not I cant go afk frighter hualing NOOOOOOOmg
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.04.18 16:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Aille Pluthrak At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. One thing I did bring from all this complaining about Privateers and wardecs was a great hatred of Astral Wolves. Yarr and all that Tbh if there is one war you should keep going, it's against Astral Wolves. I'd love to see Minigin being kept ****ed off, even after all the whining got you nerfed Resistance is Fertile.
Raikkonnen	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Arron S I know know, theres a place called 0.0... Not everyone wants to **** around with supplying pos's, blob warfare, politics and capital fleets. Low sec sucks now with warp to 0. Hmm whatelse gets nerfed next. Eve is an hourglass sand box. The sand is leaking away bit by bit. I remember moo camping jita for a day killing anything that entered so concord gets beefed. I can name a hundred things that were fun in the game till they got nerfed. War decs is just another one but it's a pretty big one imo.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Raikkonnen I remember moo camping jita for a day killing anything that entered so concord gets beefed. I can name a hundred things that were fun in the game till they got nerfed. War decs is just another one but it's a pretty big one imo. Fun maybe for the bullies, when no one is there to protect everyone else, but how about for the thousands of others that weren't on the bully's team? The game doesn't revolve around any one player or type of player... the needs of all of its players have to be taken into consideration, along with the vision of the devs. In some circumstances the vision may have to be altered in order to keep the game friendly enough for the majority of players so that CCP's revenues will continue at a pace they need. Yes... real world finances may force "nerfs" in the game... welcome to another form of PvP. Wred ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
ProjectSeven z3r0 Gravity FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Aille Pluthrak At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. One thing I did bring from all this complaining about Privateers and wardecs was a great hatred of Astral Wolves. Yarr and all that /me nods in silent respect to an actual smart comment Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) /signature oh god damnit.
Dominious	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Raikkonnen Not everyone wants to **** around with supplying pos's, blob warfare, politics and capital fleets. But forcing players to pew pew 2, 3, 4+ months in empire space is OK in your book, right? Not only that, but dec'ing almost all of empire against their will. See the irony in your statement?
Fswd	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Raikkonnen Originally by: Arron S I know know, theres a place called 0.0... Not everyone wants to **** around with supplying pos's, blob warfare, politics and capital fleets. Low sec sucks now with warp to 0. Hmm whatelse gets nerfed next. Eve is an hourglass sand box. The sand is leaking away bit by bit. I remember moo camping jita for a day killing anything that entered so concord gets beefed. I can name a hundred things that were fun in the game till they got nerfed. War decs is just another one but it's a pretty big one imo. Gates have 2 sides now --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it?
Raikkonnen	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Fswd Originally by: Raikkonnen Originally by: Arron S I know know, theres a place called 0.0... Not everyone wants to **** around with supplying pos's, blob warfare, politics and capital fleets. Low sec sucks now with warp to 0. Hmm whatelse gets nerfed next. Eve is an hourglass sand box. The sand is leaking away bit by bit. I remember moo camping jita for a day killing anything that entered so concord gets beefed. I can name a hundred things that were fun in the game till they got nerfed. War decs is just another one but it's a pretty big one imo. Gates have 2 sides now Yep and 1/2 of the gate camp was 100% nerfed. Besides that what takes longer flying 15k or entering warp on the other side of the gate?
Raikkonnen	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Dominious Edited by: Dominious on 18/04/2007 17:35:07 Originally by: Raikkonnen Not everyone wants to **** around with supplying pos's, blob warfare, politics and capital fleets. But forcing players to pew pew 2, 3, 4+ months in empire space is OK in your books? Not only that, but wardecing almost all of empire against their will? See the irony in your statement? Actually no I dont see the irony. 90% of the war targets I have been shooting have .0 space. I didn't force them to come to empire and they are 100% safe from me in .0. And all of empire? you dont know unless your in priv and can see targets. Most systems of 25 have maybe 1 or 2 targets. I hardly call that most. Look I'm still gonna be here in empire as .0 became stupid a good bit of time ago then just got worse with pos's, outposts, and capitals. Eve is an ok game right now. But the danger of living in eve goes down with every patch and it's becomming just another mmo of sitting somewhere calling out for a matchup in pvp.
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Raikkonnen Actually no I dont see the irony. 90% of the war targets I have been shooting have .0 space. I didn't force them to come to empire and they are 100% safe from me in .0. And all of empire? you dont know unless your in priv and can see targets. Most systems of 25 have maybe 1 or 2 targets. I hardly call that most. Look I'm still gonna be here in empire as .0 became stupid a good bit of time ago then just got worse with pos's, outposts, and capitals. Eve is an ok game right now. But the danger of living in eve goes down with every patch and it's becomming just another mmo of sitting somewhere calling out for a matchup in pvp. I'm sure that Ibis you killed in your sig put up one heck of a fight.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Aille Pluthrak At first I was mad at the targeted nerf. Then I was proud cause it was a targeted nerf. I will adapt and I will still play the game. The Privateers have given me a taste of Carebear blood and I like the taste. Heck worse comes to worse I'll just join a corp that targets carebear corps in Empire close to us. Or go pirating in low sec. The name of this game is adapting to the changing situation. One thing I did bring from all this complaining about Privateers and wardecs was a great hatred of Astral Wolves. Yarr and all that One nice thing about this change, the culled herd that remains after the losers and bullies move on to other games is gonna be that much more dangerous. /salute Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
Bartholomeus Crane	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:19:00 - [23] I have a much better idea for the privateers! Why don't they all go to low sec and 0.0. From what I've seen, there's a lot of fighting going on there! Why don't they give that a try? --
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:26:00 - [24] Main problem would be the lack of any ISK injection into the fight. without people carebearing on the side there would be less and less ISK in the form of loot changing hands between the black/white allainces. Nice idea though. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Sorted Main problem would be the lack of any ISK injection into the fight. without people carebearing on the side there would be less and less ISK in the form of loot changing hands between the black/white allainces. Nice idea though. Like I said, make 3-4 corps, and rotate the wars. Then you'll get a break from the war to mission run or mine/trade lol see the irony in this?
Raikkonnen	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Raikkonnen on 18/04/2007 18:43:38 Originally by: Vincent Gaines Originally by: Raikkonnen Actually no I dont see the irony. 90% of the war targets I have been shooting have .0 space. I didn't force them to come to empire and they are 100% safe from me in .0. And all of empire? you dont know unless your in priv and can see targets. Most systems of 25 have maybe 1 or 2 targets. I hardly call that most. Look I'm still gonna be here in empire as .0 became stupid a good bit of time ago then just got worse with pos's, outposts, and capitals. Eve is an ok game right now. But the danger of living in eve goes down with every patch and it's becomming just another mmo of sitting somewhere calling out for a matchup in pvp. I'm sure that Ibis you killed in your sig put up one heck of a fight. NOPE. Didn't have crap either. BUT it might have ya never know. Then again let me ask something. Did my af put up much of a fight when it got whiped it out with the titan while I sat in a black screen with 200 other peeps? I have lost hundreds of ships in .0 wars. Have killed hundreds (yes I have more accounts than this) and in my 3 years of .0 in my personal experience I have NEVER seen a fair fight. If it was fair neither side engaged. Only engagements I have ever seen is either 1. bigger blob engages smaller blob or 2. Smaller but much more experienced and fitted blow engages larger but less experienced and fitted blob. already said it in another thread I'll kill anything that flys in front of me. Isn't that the same thing they do in .0? If I take an ibis to .0 will they let me threw the gate camps cause I aint a threat? Just currious. edit and before you say it was a noob well was a year and half old player in a .0 alliance that just got done killing off ISS a known carebear .0 alliance. SO IAC kills off ISS who is a carebear alliance then gets kill by someone in empire and another person says how dare you he wasn't fitted for pvp nor was he flying his best ship and he wasn't in a gang. WELL BO HO
Raikkonnen	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:49:00 - [27] edit not workin edit and before you say it was a noob well was a year and half old player in a .0 alliance that just got done killing off ISS a known carebear .0 alliance. SO IAC kills off ISS who is a carebear alliance then gets kill by someone in empire and another person says how dare you he wasn't fitted for pvp nor was he flying his best ship and he wasn't in a gang. WELL BO HO
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:52:00 - [28] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 18/04/2007 18:48:24 Originally by: Raikkonnen edit not workin edit and before you say it was a noob well was a year and half old player in a .0 alliance that just got done killing off ISS a known carebear .0 alliance. SO IAC kills off ISS who is a carebear alliance then gets kill by someone in empire and another person says how dare you he wasn't fitted for pvp nor was he flying his best ship and he wasn't in a gang. WELL BO HO I was in ISS... we weren't all carebears. I wasn't really active when IAC fought us so I can't comment on that. But as ISS even in 0.0 I remember gangs led by Painball and Crucifier, and Outbreak, DICE, RKK, FIX, RA, E-R, and countless other gangs that would roam the south in 0.0 and get plenty of kills in small skirmishes. I was involved in many, many of those fights.
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Raikkonnen NOPE. Didn't have crap either. BUT it might have ya never know. Then again let me ask something. Did my af put up much of a fight when it got whiped it out with the titan while I sat in a black screen with 200 other peeps? I have lost hundreds of ships in .0 wars. Have killed hundreds (yes I have more accounts than this) and in my 3 years of .0 in my personal experience I have NEVER seen a fair fight. If it was fair neither side engaged. Only engagements I have ever seen is either 1. bigger blob engages smaller blob or 2. Smaller but much more experienced and fitted blow engages larger but less experienced and fitted blob. already said it in another thread I'll kill anything that flys in front of me. Isn't that the same thing they do in .0? If I take an ibis to .0 will they let me threw the gate camps cause I aint a threat? Just currious. I've already addressed these excuses before in one of the other PA threads... which is funny because you all used to mock and flame people for making PA threads and yet you all are doing the same right now.
Koryvarn Amarr Fleet Of Elite The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:00:00 - [30] Why not just form several Privateer Alliances, based on location? One for Northern space, one for western, one for eastern, one for southern, and then declare war on the corps / alliances that live in that specific space. It would mean less targets overall compared to now, but still allow them to live the privateer dream.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Sorted Main problem would be the lack of any ISK injection into the fight. without people carebearing on the side there would be less and less ISK in the form of loot changing hands between the black/white allainces. Nice idea though. The purpose of such a "War Club" would not be to make tons of loot by killing one another... the purpose is to be able to enjoy some good PvP action. As I mentioned, the members of Privateers who simply want to hauler gank would find such a club not to their liking, but the members who actually just want a good fight against a foe that is looking for the same would find it ideal, I think. Sure, if you lose a lot of ships it'll cost you ISK to "play" the war game... but if you're insuring your ships, looting and salvaging your opponents that you do manage to kill, then you can limit to some extent the bleeding. When your corp had enough you'd withdraw from the alliance, regroup, build up your assets again, and then rejoin the club for more action. It'd be very similar to the current Privateer setup in that regard (at least as I've read it depicted on these forums), except your targets would only be members of the opposing alliance. I suspect it's even a potential money making business for whoever runs the whole thing. If you're charging a corp 5M ISK per week to stay in one Alliance or the other and you get to the point where you have more than 10 corps in the club, then you'd be bringing in more money every week than you'd be spending on war declarations. If you had 15 corps on each side that'd be 150M ISK coming in less 50M in war dec netting 100M ISK a week for the person running the whole thing. An alliance costs what... 1 billion ISK to setup? You'd pay off your initial investment of 2 billion ISK in just 5 months and then everything would be profit after that. Not too shabby, if you ask me, just for running a "fight club". Wred PS: If anyone does do this, feel free to send me an occasional "dividend" for the idea. ----- Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised!
DiuxDium Loot	Posted - 2007.04.18 21:13:00 - [32] Edited by: DiuxDium on 18/04/2007 21:09:34 ** sucks. I'm not even in priv anymore, and I find it pathetic Quote:** Also, he didnt even have a Scrambler, so the POS would have gotten away anyway.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:31:00 - [33] great suggestion

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