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Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:29:00 - [1] This is not a privateer whine thread. However, I do have to say that the privateer play style was fun. You could log on and find a target pretty easily (although, personally, I never saw any of these afk haulers that everyone else apparently did!) and you could fight them. I have very limited online time and don't want to play the political games or take on the corporate responsibilities necessary for 0.0 alliance lifestyle. So, my point is that they need to aim for this same kind of idea for factional warfare and they need to keep it small scale - so that small gangs or solo players can go out and find small gangs or solo players. Blobbing is fine if you enjoy it, but plenty of players don't. And let's face it, blobbing is used to conquer space, for the most part, and I don't actually think that we are going to be able to conquer Amarr - at least, not in one weekend with a 1000 strong blob! I assume there will be small individual objectives which shift the tide in small amounts or which will just give players a chance to square off against each other. I think this is an excellent chance to bring some much needed fun to empire space. And there is nothing quite like being able to warp through system after system, seeing red stars all over the place, while knowing you'll have allies close by, too. Or just the possibility of warping into a gate fight of allies against enemies, completely by accident. Too much time in EVE is spent waiting or searching for your enemy. That's fine if you want to play EVE with incredible amounts of tactical forethought and want to spend an hour organising a 40 man gang together. But the game will be a lot more enjoyable if you can find combat a little easier. That's just my opinion, at least. And I hope that part of the reasons the devs nerfed the Privateer playstyle is because they have a better system near completion. If not, well, I think they're making a mistake. It's combat that should be tough. Not finding it.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Jasai Kameron It's combat that should be tough. Not finding it. Damn straight. That quote pretty much sums up why many of us were in Privateers to begin with. We want targets! And we don't want to wait/roam for hours on end to find them. I'm not sure if Factional Warfare is supposed to be the cure or not, but here's hoping.
Caol The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:45:00 - [3] Play on the test server?
Hazkr Rwzk coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:48:00 - [4] **** don't coem for free u carn't want targets but not be willing to go were they are. In lowsec and 0.0 we all want lots of small scale funs fights, we all want epic solo fights, but unlike you we work for our fights
GimmeeThat	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Jasai Kameron It's combat that should be tough. Not finding it. Damn straight. That quote pretty much sums up why many of us were in Privateers to begin with. We want targets! And we don't want to wait/roam for hours on end to find them. I'm not sure if Factional Warfare is supposed to be the cure or not, but here's hoping. go to 0.0 ?? oh and trust me you won't need to wait for hours for targets.
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Hazkr Rwzk **** don't coem for free u carn't want targets but not be willing to go were they are. In lowsec and 0.0 we all want lots of small scale funs fights, we all want epic solo fights, but unlike you we work for our fights I got my solo pilgrim ready and I'm going to do just that. But if we all want small scale fun fights and epic solo fights, why the heck is it such a problem for a game that is meant to be FUN to allow that to happen without large amounts of WORK. You should work in the fight. I don't see why you have to do a ton of work just to get into a decent one in the first place. That makes no sense to me, but heck, maybe I just don't understand the concept of a game properly. Surely you can agree that EVE would be more fun if their were more small scale and solo fights happening?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:55:00 - [7] Personally I agree with this opinion, and I would much rather spend 2 hours online fighting people than sitting around waiting for something to happen. Then again, maybe its not meant for Eve to be a quick fix satisfaction kind of a game. It has always been a thinking mans long time scenario game. So we'll have to wait and see, but yes, 0.0 is too time consuming for a lot of people, and we can all agree that empire is dull. Some kind of middle ground would be nice. But like I said, maybe its not in the Eve vision, and if so, I can respect that. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
GimmeeThat	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim McGregor Personally I agree with this opinion, and I would much rather spend 2 hours online fighting people than sitting around waiting for something to happen. Then again, maybe its not meant for Eve to be a quick fix satisfaction kind of a game. It has always been a thinking mans long time scenario game. So we'll have to wait and see, but yes, 0.0 is too time consuming for a lot of people, and we can all agree that empire is dull. Some kind of middle ground would be nice. But like I said, maybe its not in the Eve vision, and if so, I can respect that. pretty sure .2 .3 .4 is the middle ground you speak of. pick a pipe and pew pew.
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 18:59:00 - [9] Originally by: GimmeeThat go to 0.0 ?? oh and trust me you won't need to wait for hours for targets. Well, I like to play solo. You can flame me for that if you like. But if I go into 0.0 I'm going to have work damn hard to find solo or killable targets. Like I said, I'll probably go off in a pilgrim and try to find stupid people ratting who don't know to safespot when a neutral appears in local. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll find the odd person who wants to 1 v 1. Yeah, you're right, plenty of targets. I've been in alliances. Most of them seem to sit in gate camps for hours on end. That's just not my idea of fun. Every hour or so one poor ship warps through and you blast it to death and feel really impressed with yourself. But if you're suggesting I enagage large gangs solo, well, you're just trying to get me killed so you can laugh at me some more.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:01:00 - [10] Originally by: GimmeeThat pretty sure .2 .3 .4 is the middle ground you speak of. pick a pipe and pew pew. So why do people still prefer empire wars? :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: GimmeeThat go to 0.0 ?? oh and trust me you won't need to wait for hours for targets. Well, I like to play solo. You can flame me for that if you like. But if I go into 0.0 I'm going to have work damn hard to find solo or killable targets. Like I said, I'll probably go off in a pilgrim and try to find stupid people ratting who don't know to safespot when a neutral appears in local. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll find the odd person who wants to 1 v 1. Yeah, you're right, plenty of targets. I've been in alliances. Most of them seem to sit in gate camps for hours on end. That's just not my idea of fun. Every hour or so one poor ship warps through and you blast it to death and feel really impressed with yourself. But if you're suggesting I enagage large gangs solo, well, you're just trying to get me killed so you can laugh at me some more. funny, because while gate camps do happen, most are set up by pirate corps, not alliances. In addition, you won't find capital blobs while wandering through 0.0, you will however find good, small fights. This excuse doesn't work and you all need to stop using it because it's FALSE.
GimmeeThat	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: GimmeeThat go to 0.0 ?? oh and trust me you won't need to wait for hours for targets. Well, I like to play solo. You can flame me for that if you like. But if I go into 0.0 I'm going to have work damn hard to find solo or killable targets. Like I said, I'll probably go off in a pilgrim and try to find stupid people ratting who don't know to safespot when a neutral appears in local. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll find the odd person who wants to 1 v 1. Yeah, you're right, plenty of targets. I've been in alliances. Most of them seem to sit in gate camps for hours on end. That's just not my idea of fun. Every hour or so one poor ship warps through and you blast it to death and feel really impressed with yourself. But if you're suggesting I enagage large gangs solo, well, you're just trying to get me killed so you can laugh at me some more. If you just want 1 v 1 grab a buddy and duke it out.
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Vincent Gaines funny, because while gate camps do happen, most are set up by pirate corps, not alliances. In addition, you won't find capital blobs while wandering through 0.0, you will however find good, small fights. This excuse doesn't work and you all need to stop using it because it's FALSE. Well, I can only speak for the alliances I've been in, which isn't many. And I certainly never said anything about capital blobs. Even a gang of six is too many if I'm flying solo. I hope you're right, mate. I guess I'll find out. But even if you are, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't make Factional Warfare another good way to find combat by orientating it towards solo and small gang combat. Doesn't that make sense? Or am I speaking Russian again?
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:06:00 - [14] Originally by: GimmeeThat If you just want 1 v 1 grab a buddy and duke it out. Want to be my buddy?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:07:00 - [15] From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
GimmeeThat	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: GimmeeThat If you just want 1 v 1 grab a buddy and duke it out. Want to be my buddy? Sure meet me at N-RAEL in about 15 min. see ya then
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:22:00 - [17] Originally by: GimmeeThat Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: GimmeeThat If you just want 1 v 1 grab a buddy and duke it out. Want to be my buddy? Sure meet me at N-RAEL in about 15 min. see ya then Hah! 32 jumps in 15 minutes. Now that would be working for a fight. But I might wander down there in a week or something. See what it looks like. Cheers for the rec.
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Jim McGregor From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. Damn. Didn't realise that. I don't really see why we need more missions. They're already introducing level 5 and 6, from what I've heard.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Jim McGregor From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. Damn. Didn't realise that. I don't really see why we need more missions. They're already introducing level 5 and 6, from what I've heard. I was hoping for some kind of pvp missions as well. We'll see how it turns out, but it would be really nice with objective oriented missions against other players. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Pilok Shitfly Minmatar	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Jim McGregor From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. Damn. Didn't realise that. I don't really see why we need more missions. They're already introducing level 5 and 6, from what I've heard. I was hoping for some kind of pvp missions as well. We'll see how it turns out, but it would be really nice with objective oriented missions against other players. It would be nice if Amarr and Caldari could be attacked in Minmatar space without concord spoiling the fun. But i guess that would mess up many corps in Minmatar space
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Jasai Kameron .... But if we all want small scale fun fights and epic solo fights, why the heck is it such a problem for a game that is meant to be FUN to allow that to happen without large amounts of WORK. You should work in the fight. I don't see why you have to do a ton of work just to get into a decent one in the first place. That makes no sense to me, but heck, maybe I just don't understand the concept of a game properly. Surely you can agree that EVE would be more fun if their were more small scale and solo fights happening? You call for the need not to have to work to get a fight but only to work in the fight. Fine. You find your fun in the fight. Fine again. The problem is that at the same time you pretend the right to deny all the work someone other as put in another direction (NPC-ing, trading, mining, building) without work on your part. You don't want to work to find targets, you want them on a platter as soon as you undock, you want to destroy what they have worked for and what they find fun in, without working a second. With that philosopy you shouldn't play a MMORPG, you should play a solo game in your PC, where all the world is there for you only. No work to get the next mission, to chose a path, all pre-loaded on your PC. The end of your post implyes that you really aren't so self centric and will work to get your fun at the expenses of some other fun, and not pretend to get it free, but your first choice was the free of charge option. Think about it a bit.
Mr Abbadon Svea Rike	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:08:00 - [22] i like privateers style, bringing the combat into empire. Tho decing newbie corps is a bit of a bad thing if you want more ppl to play this game. But all around kudos on all _____________________________________________________________ This is my thoughts etc and mine only. Not from corp or alliance. Only me.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Jim McGregor From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. Damn. Didn't realise that. I don't really see why we need more missions. They're already introducing level 5 and 6, from what I've heard. That will be level 5 and 6. Factional warfare. I am trying to suggest a sytem of high sec pirating (true privateering, sponsored by a faction against another), but no one seem interested. That should allow controlled piracy in high sec.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Venkul Mul You call for the need not to have to work to get a fight but only to work in the fight. Fine. You find your fun in the fight. Fine again. The problem is that at the same time you pretend the right to deny all the work someone other as put in another direction (NPC-ing, trading, mining, building) without work on your part. You don't want to work to find targets, you want them on a platter as soon as you undock, you want to destroy what they have worked for and what they find fun in, without working a second. Agreed.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:28:00 - [25] ↑ I'm with stupid ↑
Jasai Kameron Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Venkul Mul You call for the need not to have to work to get a fight but only to work in the fight. Fine. You find your fun in the fight. Fine again. The problem is that at the same time you pretend the right to deny all the work someone other as put in another direction (NPC-ing, trading, mining, building) without work on your part. You don't want to work to find targets, you want them on a platter as soon as you undock, you want to destroy what they have worked for and what they find fun in, without working a second. With that philosopy you shouldn't play a MMORPG, you should play a solo game in your PC, where all the world is there for you only. No work to get the next mission, to chose a path, all pre-loaded on your PC. The end of your post implyes that you really aren't so self centric and will work to get your fun at the expenses of some other fun, and not pretend to get it free, but your first choice was the free of charge option. Think about it a bit. Nah, mate, you misunderstand. My idea of factional warfare is fighting other people who want to fight. Privateers have had a bad press, I know, but I for one have never blown up anyone who wasn't fitted and prepared for combat. I'm not saying I wouldn't shoot at an enemy hauler, but I am saying I wouldn't find it particularly fun. You make it sound like I just want to kill people really easily. What I want to do is fight and a) live or b) die. The death bit balances out the live bit. I'm not getting anything for free. I'm not trying to destroy what someone else finds fun in. I'm trying to create and share something they find fun in - pvp. That's what I want from factional warfare. I've got very little interest in blowing up easy targets that can't fight back. I'm not asking anybody to put those people on a platter for me. What I would love to see is game mechanics that actually make it easy for players who love solo or small gang combat to go out and have tough small gang combat in a real scenario that affects the rest of EVE (i.e. not the test server). I fail to see why this has has caused such outrage. I'm not marginalising the other professions. Someone who makes a lot of isk through hard work can use that isk to make themselves stronger in PVP and kill me using factional modules or whatever and I've got no complaint whatsoever. They worked for that. Or they can spend their isk building their own corp or something non-PVP relatated. That's cool, too. But come on, you have to admit factional small gang warfare in empire, built around objectives, with players "signing up" to be able to hit targets and be hit themselves, would be pretty darn cool... Well, obviously, you don't have to admit it. But I think it would be fun and I haven't heard any decent arguments against it yet.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Jim McGregor From what I read a long time ago about faction warfare, its supposed to be npc missions where you can get rewards and expand your factions border. I dont think it has anything to do with pvp unfortunately. Im not sure though. Damn. Didn't realise that. I don't really see why we need more missions. They're already introducing level 5 and 6, from what I've heard. I was hoping for some kind of pvp missions as well. We'll see how it turns out, but it would be really nice with objective oriented missions against other players. From Oveurs latest blog, it seems to suggest that its PvP based. Why else would he be talking about the need to improve "warfare in general" before they introduce factional warfare? --------
RedFall Irreligion	Posted - 2007.04.18 20:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Venkul Mul You call for the need not to have to work to get a fight but only to work in the fight. Fine. You find your fun in the fight. Fine again. The problem is that at the same time you pretend the right to deny all the work someone other as put in another direction (NPC-ing, trading, mining, building) without work on your part. You don't want to work to find targets, you want them on a platter as soon as you undock, you want to destroy what they have worked for and what they find fun in, without working a second. Agreed. Disagreed.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:14:00 - [29] It would be nice if we could 'sign up' with one of the 4 races, go into enemy space and fight others who've 'signed up for the war'. I don't want to fight NPCs though.
evil penguin	Posted - 2007.04.19 00:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Kruel It would be nice if we could 'sign up' with one of the 4 races, go into enemy space and fight others who've 'signed up for the war'. I don't want to fight NPCs though. Very cool idea, no idea how they would implement it though, but thats why I'm not a dev haha :P I'd guess it would be Amarr & Caldari vs Gallente & Minmatar. So if I signed up to one side and you the other we could shoot each other anywhere without Empire interfering. This would essentially make consentual pvp possible in high sec for those who want it. Those who dont want it dont have to sign up so everyone can have their cake & eat it.

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