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Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:17:00 -
[1]
Notice I said "now". Let me say I understand business. I understand what is needed, why it's needed and when it's needed; critical decisions. "Now" is not the time to start diffusing the resources of CCP elsewhere. At least more than they already have.
When I read they are looking to add 100 people to their corp to help continue and progress the development of new MMOs, at least two based on EONs reports, this gets me worried.
It means the following things...I think.
1) CCP has hit a wall in attracting new customers to EvE
2) CCP has hit a technology wall that does not allow them to attract more customers in order to maintain the requested profits and desired expansion
3) CCP thinks they have climaxed with EvE and it's safe to move on
Now let me address each point.
It's easy to conceive that EvE has reached it's critical mass in it's customer base. EvEs community numbers have stopped growing at the fast paced rate of the first three years. Combine that with knowing that a LARGE amount of the "active" players in game are ALTS and you can see that there is definitely a leveling happening. Gone are the days of "new maximum players in space" alerts. The community has actually shrunk since it's peak. People are losing interest and their tracking shows it.
Technology wall? It's interesting to think CCP may have hit a wall in gear that limits them to further expanding EvE and keeping it the way it is now, a single cluster. Obviously as a viable business they can't just "accept" this and stop earning more profit increases. So now it makes sense that because they cannot grow EvE at the rate wanted, it's time to make new worlds to quest.
Climaxed, ew what's that? This is the most concerning possible motive. CCP may actually think they have a MMO that is so unique and established it is safe to move on. EvE is where it needs to be and future rollouts will keep it going.
Now while I can agree it is truly a unique MMO and definitely a stand out product it is hardly reached status in the MMO community or regular gaming community to warrant this. Many gamers still have no idea what EvE is. WoW as well all know has millions of members and dwarfs EvE. Ultima Online had/has a huge history and following. EvE has a long way to go. It has many areas evenCCP admits are a challenge to keep interesting. There are 100s of posts on this forum with respect to the areas of EvE that continue to be less than stellar.
What I would like to see is CCP invest 100 new souls and money to continue to make EvE this great thing it is meant to be. Use those resoures to make it what is spoken on the mouths of every gamer.
Why not rid passive comments from players such as, "the missions are boring after a while and get repetative." to "Wow! Seems like I am always finding something new!" That is just a simple example but my point is that many resources hammering away at EvE; it could become a "content" giant. Offering something that IS truly unique to the MMO world of gaming.
Instead they are spending money on Chinese operations, EON magazine, a card game, and now EvE TV studios in the UK. While I apprecite this as an avid player, all this costs LOTS of money and takes away from meat of the game. And when I hear "100 new employees, offices in the United States and China.." it makes me cringe when I think they are not all for EvE.
CCP, push the game and make it something so incredible every one has to notice. Every game site can only freak out on how original the game continues to be.
I can only wonder...would we have had walking in space stations by now? Planetary exploration? Morphing, triggered, completey random mission generation? More plexes, The DX9 enhancement pack promised LAST SEPTEMBER, EvE Vista? More of everything that makes EvE, EVE?
Stay focused, don't let this universe flounder or go stale with the same 25,000+/- 5000 active members for the rest of it's run |
Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Phoenix Wing
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:21:00 -
[2]
To a large extent this is due to the merger with White Wolf and the development of a World of Darkness MMO by CCP. As a part of this though, a full char 3d engine has to be developed, leading to... you guessed it, walking in stations.
So, even though not all these 100 new employees will be working on EVE, that does not mean EVE will not benefit them.
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We are Recruiting! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/04/2007 08:21:57
Eve population has doubled in just a year. Then again, there are lots of new mmorpg's coming out this year. None of them are in space though. I think one of the strongest advantages of Eve is exacly that... its about space. Most of the other games are fantasy. When people get tired of fantasy, who are they gonna call... ghost busters? No. Eve. :)
Eve isnt really designed for the masses though, so I dont think the population will double again in the next year, but I think the game will have maybe 35000 people online instead of 25000 a year from now.
Edit: I realized I didnt really answer your post with what I wrote, so let me just say that I believe that ccp are fully committed to Eve for many years to come. Them taking on new people means exacly that, not that they are putting people in other non-Eve related projects.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:23:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Druadan on 23/04/2007 08:19:54
I disagree with the OP. Diversification does not imply 'moving on', i.e. leaving your current project behind. It is about spreading the net wider. CCP have seen an opportunity to expand, and are taking it on. You don't hire 100 new employees if you're moving to a new project and leaving your current one behind. Increased staff means you need more man-hours on the job, i.e. you're taking on more work.
__________________________________________________
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire |
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:40:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Stormreaper
Minmatar
The Stain Project
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
Oveur if I send you bree can I have a Tribal Tempest on Sisi? :D
--------------------------------- Peace is preperation for war Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Oiri Yusko ([email protected])
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
1) CCP has hit a wall in attracting new customers to EvE
No they have not. Something happened at the end of January/beginning of February which caused the number of subscribers to fall.
Once that thing has worked itself out of the system, I fully expect the number of subscribers to start rising again.
Can you imagine the effect of a DX 10 video like "Eve Never Fades" or "No Other Destiny". New subscribers will flock to Eve.
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Erim Solfara
Amarr
Tarlos INC
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:00:00 -
[8]
Something that happened to the eve sub numbers was the WoW expansion was it not? I seem ot recall a dev saying that it had hit the expansion rate of EvE when it came out  misguided fools...
New ship class |
Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
it's not hard to make those assumptions, when your actively spamming each and every player who no longer plays the game.. with the 'come back to us' message.
Such an action would bring some credence and credibility to the op 'brick wall theory'
As for the numbers, well.... 160k was tossed around at christmas.. or there abouts... then 200 was it on various other sites?
Funny, last month... something like that.. your CM/PR guy says we have just crossed the 160 mark today, when replying to a thread.
Who knows what to belive with such conjector flying about.
______
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:09:00 -
[10]
A few things happened.
- the Dev scandal, which will have lost CCP some subscribers and lowered Eve's attractiveness for new players
- the WoW expansion
Aside from the events, there will come a time where people slowly get disenchanted with the game, whether it be missionrunners in Empire, or people tired of POS fights in 0.0. Eventually that will probably take its toll on the subscriber numbers.
It would be too soon to tell if there is a trend here, though in a few months time it will probably become clearer whether EVE's big expansiontime is over.
signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente
Anything Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:15:00 -
[11]
When you think sci-fi MMO's, what comes to mind? I can tell you right now that I don't know anyone who plays a different sci fi game instead of Eve. I don't know how many exist, frankly I don't care to research it myself, but I know that I talk to a lot of avid gamers who prefer sci fi and they ain't got anything else that comes close to Eve.
There may be a technology hurdle that CCP is running up against, but the community will adapt and continue to grow, because it is where you go for your sci fi needs.
The new game being developed is so far from Eve in content that they won't directly compete. It just so happens that CCP has the experience with setting up something complex and flexible enough to attract the attention of and merger with White Wolf. Eve is their flagship property, and should remain so for the forseeable future. Nobody else has done it better. I've checked out some alternatives from time to time.
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Russell Simmons
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:17:00 -
[12]
In the words of The Wu Tang Clan...
"Diversify your bonds *****es."
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Galk
Originally by: CCP Oveur
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
it's not hard to make those assumptions, when your actively spamming each and every player who no longer plays the game.. with the 'come back to us' message.
Such an action would bring some credence and credibility to the op 'brick wall theory'
As for the numbers, well.... 160k was tossed around at christmas.. or there abouts... then 200 was it on various other sites?
Funny, last month... something like that.. your CM/PR guy says we have just crossed the 160 mark today, when replying to a thread.
Who knows what to belive with such conjector flying about.
Reaching 160K at christmas, Jan and Feb were slow, now going on 170K. That's paying subscribers.
The 200 is probably the total with trials (we usually have 20K-40K on trial at any given time). We don't count EVE China in any form.
The reactivation campaign was our first and is very common practice, you offer previous customers to try it out again. We've always sent out newsletters to all current and previous subscribers for the last 3 years, which most other games do too (at least I still get from my old games).
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2007.04.23 19:42:00 -
[14]
I was the first born.
My mommy loved me the mostest and gave me all the attention.
Then my little sister came along...
My mommy gave some love to her and her attention on me waivered a bit.
She IS afterall.. only one entity and now we were two.
- - -
I have faith in CCP, but of course there is still the fear that other games they are working on may steal the love and attenetion away from EVE, even if they DO double their support base.
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Rthor
Gallente
Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.23 19:55:00 -
[15]
I disagree with OP. When you look at the number of people logged on that does not really tell a whole story. I think that new players spend 5 or 10 times as much time logged on than older players, hence after every rapid increase in new players you will see a leveling off. But the people who stay with the game, I think most of them are fans of CCP, so they are not that close to canceling accounts even though they might not be logged on as much. In fact if there were fewer people playing my playing time would probably pick up because I am not so happy about everywhere being so crowded.
As one of the older players I am looking forward to seeing what CCP can do with a new game and I think that mostly it will end up that I do not care which CCP game I am playing but I will be playing at least one of them. I do not think that CCP really thinks in terms of maximizing profit short term anyhow so watching the numbers of people logged on and interpreting them is kind of misguided I think.
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Hawk Fireblade
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Posted - 2007.04.23 20:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around in stations. wewt 
Ya but why?
It adds no real additional game content other than eye candy unless there's going to be some sub game.
And frankly there's MANY MANY areas of eve especially Combat and general design of the game and gameplay that require the resources far more.
As far as technical wall, I'm not too sure about that as the wall is constantly moving, I'm sure there's alot more to be gained with a 64 bit multithreading client etc, with the onset of 64bit OS's and Multicore CPU's.
If anything alot of the wall factor I think has come overall from ccp's developement path, they just never got to grips with the more older fundementals of the game that were never really fleshed out design wise, such as combat etc.
Focusing more on the wings and dings of the game, rather than the more nuts n bolts of the gameplay.
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Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.04.23 20:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around nekid in stations. wewt
Fixed it for you, Josh.
| How To Afford A Tech II BPO | BMBE | |
sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.23 20:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around in stations. wewt
me neither and I think of all the latest expansions this is the one that will bring back alot of old players just to try it out, shame its so far away.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
ZaKma
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hawk Fireblade
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around in stations. wewt
Ya but why?
It adds no real additional game content other than eye candy unless there's going to be some sub game.
And frankly there's MANY MANY areas of eve especially Combat and general design of the game and gameplay that require the resources far more.
As far as technical wall, I'm not too sure about that as the wall is constantly moving, I'm sure there's alot more to be gained with a 64 bit multithreading client etc, with the onset of 64bit OS's and Multicore CPU's.
If anything alot of the wall factor I think has come overall from ccp's developement path, they just never got to grips with the more older fundementals of the game that were never really fleshed out design wise, such as combat etc.
Focusing more on the wings and dings of the game, rather than the more nuts n bolts of the gameplay.
How do you know that it doesn't add any real content? Have you tried it?
I'm so sick of people judging this before it's even out. Let them bring it, and then spit on it if you have to. Me personally, I'll be happy to run into a bar and grab some Quafe while watching Seleene dance on a table while waiting for a op to start. 
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Grunanca
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Galk
Originally by: CCP Oveur
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
it's not hard to make those assumptions, when your actively spamming each and every player who no longer plays the game.. with the 'come back to us' message.
Such an action would bring some credence and credibility to the op 'brick wall theory'
As for the numbers, well.... 160k was tossed around at christmas.. or there abouts... then 200 was it on various other sites?
Funny, last month... something like that.. your CM/PR guy says we have just crossed the 160 mark today, when replying to a thread.
Who knows what to belive with such conjector flying about.
Reaching 160K at christmas, Jan and Feb were slow, now going on 170K. That's paying subscribers.
The 200 is probably the total with trials (we usually have 20K-40K on trial at any given time). We don't count EVE China in any form.
The reactivation campaign was our first and is very common practice, you offer previous customers to try it out again. We've always sent out newsletters to all current and previous subscribers for the last 3 years, which most other games do too (at least I still get from my old games).
And thanks for that mail! You guys got me back after a 5 months break. Game is better than ever I think.. Except for warp to 0:(
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:18:00 -
[21]
do you guys know what the real issue is ?
it reminds me of an issue with stores trying to go online by getting their employees to advertise their online sites, some of you might not get correlation tho
most eve players think that by getting more people that the lag will just increase more and more and thus make the game worse for themselves
they do not go telling their friends about it for this big reason -even though im sure a lot still do just cause newbies are fun in game - most dont because of this even though it is completely flawed thinking
not to mention that eve itself needs to advertise its strengths and unique qualities that other games lack in more places
growth is growth but all the new and promised games will definitely be out in the next 5 years and at the current growth rate eve wont get to 2 million by then and if those other games get better coverage all the wow people will go there
thats another point. same as the lag non-issue people think that by getting wow people to play that theyll have "wow kiddies" and people that hate the cold-hard pvp of eve
this is also flawed thinking but you can see it any time and its not just restricted to the views of the forum people
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hawk Fireblade
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around in stations. wewt
Ya but why?
It adds no real additional game content other than eye candy unless there's going to be some sub game.
And frankly there's MANY MANY areas of eve especially Combat and general design of the game and gameplay that require the resources far more.
And as CCP has repeatedly tried to hammer into some very thick skulls, the resources used on the ambulation project have not robbed an iota of effort from the team working on EVE's core game.
Just because EVE is CCP's main cash cow doesn't obligate them to spend 100% of their company's total effort on it. They'd be damned fools to rest on their laurels with EVE.
They've got another MMO project brewing, and the ambulation team will likely end up transfering over to that once they've implemented stations. All the while, EVE will chug along and the team working on it will not be interrupted by this side project.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
The Ratfink
Itto-Ryu
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:28:00 -
[23]
Recent electronic engineering graduate looking for a job
how well do ccp pay?
ps: i don't drink bree
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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.04.23 21:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Concern...
When you look at what gives these MMOGs life and playability it'll ultimately come down to the community. There's only so much content that you can up in any game, and as new players with different issues come onboard the new content requirements increas exponentially.
Ultima and WoW have enormous player bases in part becuase of their accessability to the casual gamer. Once in the game they stay for the friends.
If Eve wants to be more than niche it should be investing in three things:
- Content and features specifically geared toward the new player (make it easy to get hooked)
- Community content, chat and corp features, eye-candy, and touchy feely stuff that make people want to come and hang out
- Increasing levels of complexity for the two & three year old players who will constantly need new vistas to take on
I look at the current CCP initiatives and it seems like that's where the product is headed.
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31i73
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.04.23 22:07:00 -
[25]
The OP has a good point. No player should hope that more players would come to EVE, because it will only lead to worse performance. Max playable fleet-fight size is getting smaller and smaller all the time
More customers = worse service
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Kerc Kasha
Caldari
Valiant Logistics Inc.
Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 22:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Ratfink
ps: i don't drink bree
Fired already. And you haven't even been hired yet.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.23 23:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 31i73
The OP has a good point. No player should hope that more players would come to EVE, because it will only lead to worse performance. Max playable fleet-fight size is getting smaller and smaller all the time
More customers = worse service
see thats the flawed thinking i was talking about right there
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
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Takaharu Tsuyoshi
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Posted - 2007.04.23 23:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grainsalt
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Thank you and goodnight!
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Rutoo
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.23 23:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The reactivation campaign was our first and is very common practice, you offer previous customers to try it out again. We've always sent out newsletters to all current and previous subscribers for the last 3 years, which most other games do too (at least I still get from my old games).
Sorry to Quote you here but it's your second in a way.
The First one was 1 year after eve came out and you sent a e-mail to all beta people giving them 14 days free.
I know this because it was the only reason why i came back to eve..
:P
_________________________________________________________
My Second EvE Video
Club Seals Not Sandwichs
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Shayla Sh'inlux
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.04.23 23:28:00 -
[30]
Dunno whether or not Eve as a whole is on a decline, but the subcommunity I have played in the last 2 years is all but inactive.
I know dozens of guys that are essentially playing for free on isk-bought GTC's (myself included) that are just waiting and skilling until the next big thing. And if it's crap, they go back to skilling until yet another patch etc...
That alone makes me wonder how many active subscribers there would be if selling GTC's for isk was not allowed.
Discussing moderation is a no-no - Tirg |
Arialla
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Posted - 2007.04.24 00:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: 31i73
The OP has a good point. No player should hope that more players would come to EVE, because it will only lead to worse performance. Max playable fleet-fight size is getting smaller and smaller all the time
More customers = worse service
see thats the flawed thinking i was talking about right there
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
Yeeeeessss....like the excellent customer service in WoW...
The bigger the customer/client base the less individual attention you will get and less incentive to keep you happy as there are millions of other customers/clients.
-- Arialla
Originally by: Robocop
Scammer: You probably don't think I'm a very nice guy, do ya?
Murphy: Buddy, I think you're slime.
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Valeo Galaem
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.24 00:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shinji Seto
STO? That game is doomed, I just dont think the idea of having entire crews of players to fly one ship will work out to be that much fun.
Actually, they cut ship interiors from the game, so it will be all controlled from the exterior of the ship, a la ST: Legacy or even EVE. Not to mention how heavily instanced that game will be and the fact that it has no PVP elements at all... I can't even see a Star Trek game being big on industry or manufacturing since everything is magically made by computers with replicators.
Before STO might have been a major competitor to EVE, but considering where the game is going (and the fact that they have had nothing to show of it at even the biggest trade shows bar concept art and static renders) I don't think it will be much of a threat an time soon. What will probably end up happening is it will get rushed out the door to meet release with the next Star Trek movie in a year, still unfinished, and die a slow painful death, unfortunatly, like so many other MMOs lately.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe
Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption Methods |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.24 00:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Arialla
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: 31i73
The OP has a good point. No player should hope that more players would come to EVE, because it will only lead to worse performance. Max playable fleet-fight size is getting smaller and smaller all the time
More customers = worse service
see thats the flawed thinking i was talking about right there
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
Yeeeeessss....like the excellent customer service in WoW...
The bigger the customer/client base the less individual attention you will get and less incentive to keep you happy as there are millions of other customers/clients.
and yet everyone tells their mom and their dog about how great wow is and gets them to play it
last i checked customer service was great in WoW.
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Rasahl Tlev
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Posted - 2007.04.24 03:33:00 -
[34]
for that eve ambulation thingy...i think eve doesnt need it...its just fluff. And if it does, i wanna see some khanid booty dancing.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.24 04:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rasahl Tlev
for that eve ambulation thingy...i think eve doesnt need it...its just fluff. And if it does, i wanna see some khanid booty dancing.
I would be dissapointed if that type of junk was possible.
pod pilots are the elite not the low life scum that shake their booty for lack of any class.
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Mortania
Minmatar
Carbide Industries
Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.04.24 07:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Janu Hull
And as CCP has repeatedly tried to hammer into some very thick skulls, the resources used on the ambulation project have not robbed an iota of effort from the team working on EVE's core game.
Just because EVE is CCP's main cash cow doesn't obligate them to spend 100% of their company's total effort on it. They'd be damned fools to rest on their laurels with EVE.
They've got another MMO project brewing, and the ambulation team will likely end up transfering over to that once they've implemented stations. All the while, EVE will chug along and the team working on it will not be interrupted by this side project.
And I'm sure they are glad you believe them. Have you ever tried to run anything in your life? Been a parent? Grill cook? anything like that?
How much time before the merger did Oveur spend thinking about Atlanta or Whitewolf properties? How much now? How much of that time that he spends now thinking about Whitewolf properties takes away from the time he spends thinking about EVE?
Maybe Oveur doesn't, what about Hellmar?
There used to be a time when the only thing CCP thought about, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, every individual at CCP ever thought about was EVE. This was the core group of developers that made EVE, that launched EVE, that imbued EVE with life. This core group of developers is now sundered both in their minds and at thier company.
Who runs CCP China? Kjartan Pierre Emilsson. You know what he was the 5 years previous to that? Lead Game Designer on EVE. Now he runs China. I'm happy for him, I'm sure it's a terrific career move. But, let that sink in, the Lead Game Designer for EVE is no longer working on the core game anymore.
Who works on the EVE CCG? 1 or 2 isolated people? More? I suspect from what I've seen, it's many people at the office, if not everyone at the office at one point or another.
Let's talk about an office of 20 people versus and office of 100 people. The overhead, the management of that many people is enormous. How much time does Hellmar think about his 100 employees versus EVE Online?
If you think that all of these additions do not detract "one iota" from the core game, then you are fooling yourself.
---
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.24 07:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Galk
Originally by: CCP Oveur
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
see now what he really means is "there are nearly 2000 players and 170,000 active accounts!"
Alts anyone?
--------------------
My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 07:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Rasahl Tlev
for that eve ambulation thingy...i think eve doesnt need it...its just fluff. And if it does, i wanna see some khanid booty dancing.
I would be dissapointed if that type of junk was possible.
pod pilots are the elite not the low life scum that shake their booty for lack of any class.
see now i disagree there, i know a girl who plays eve and she can shake it like jelly... mmm jelly.
--------------------
My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Haks'he Lirky
Zombie Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 07:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Janu Hull
Stuff
And I'm sure they are glad you believe them. Have you ever tried to run anything in your life? Been a parent? Grill cook? anything like that?
How much time before the merger did Oveur spend thinking about Atlanta or Whitewolf properties? How much now? How much of that time that he spends now thinking about Whitewolf properties takes away from the time he spends thinking about EVE?
Maybe Oveur doesn't, what about Hellmar?
There used to be a time when the only thing CCP thought about, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, every individual at CCP ever thought about was EVE. This was the core group of developers that made EVE, that launched EVE, that imbued EVE with life. This core group of developers is now sundered both in their minds and at thier company.
Who runs CCP China? Kjartan Pierre Emilsson. You know what he was the 5 years previous to that? Lead Game Designer on EVE. Now he runs China. I'm happy for him, I'm sure it's a terrific career move. But, let that sink in, the Lead Game Designer for EVE is no longer working on the core game anymore.
Who works on the EVE CCG? 1 or 2 isolated people? More? I suspect from what I've seen, it's many people at the office, if not everyone at the office at one point or another.
Let's talk about an office of 20 people versus and office of 100 people. The overhead, the management of that many people is enormous. How much time does Hellmar think about his 100 employees versus EVE Online?
If you think that all of these additions do not detract "one iota" from the core game, then you are fooling yourself.
Have you ever worked in a creative environment where you focus on only one product? after a certain amount of time people get stagnant, bored and complacant. I think the creative juices involved in just meeting a new set of creative minds over a glass of good potent beer just releases things you didnt know you had in you, let alone work with them on back story ideas and focus on something that defines the world of eve (did you read the blog from Gnauton?).
Many people would say that you cant put the same amount of attention into one child as into two but I think a healthy family environment contributes more to the development of a child than the singular focused attention on one child as with an extra family member comes another pair of eyes to give attention. And besides, who the hell compares a game corporation to child rearing and grill cooking?
Once the World of Darkness starts there will be solutions found and solutions shared, the creative process will flourish with different creative thinking inside an environment wich looks and sounds awesome, and to be honest I think this environment is a dream come true for both sides.
I dont think LeKjart would have been content as the lead game designer much longer any way, people like that want to grow within their workplace and I think he did just that. This also opens up positions for new people, new ideas and a fresh perspective.
Also, getting to work with a company that is far older than ccp but established with the same ideals should help ccp focus them selves, right? CCP isnt the only one with a slightly divided attention, White Wolf is also thinking about eve and even though I dont think we will see wampire ships in eve I am pretty convinced that their input does not lessen the game we so love today.
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DiuxDium
Loot
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hawk Fireblade
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
I cant wait to run around in stations. wewt
Ya but why?
It adds no real additional game content other than eye candy unless there's going to be some sub game.
And frankly there's MANY MANY areas of eve especially Combat and general design of the game and gameplay that require the resources far more.
As far as technical wall, I'm not too sure about that as the wall is constantly moving, I'm sure there's alot more to be gained with a 64 bit multithreading client etc, with the onset of 64bit OS's and Multicore CPU's.
If anything alot of the wall factor I think has come overall from ccp's developement path, they just never got to grips with the more older fundementals of the game that were never really fleshed out design wise, such as combat etc.
Focusing more on the wings and dings of the game, rather than the more nuts n bolts of the gameplay.
Because I'm going to beat you up and steal your lunch money? Except this time. It's for keeps.
Quote:
Also, he didnt even have a Scrambler, so the POS would have gotten away anyway. |
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CCP Oveur
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Takaharu Tsuyoshi
Originally by: Grainsalt
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Thank you and goodnight!
Just to clarify, they are doing the new models, the high-res ones, fixing all the flaws and stuff in the old ones. This will then be deployed when the new graphics engine is out.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.24 08:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rutoo
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The reactivation campaign was our first and is very common practice, you offer previous customers to try it out again. We've always sent out newsletters to all current and previous subscribers for the last 3 years, which most other games do too (at least I still get from my old games).
Sorry to Quote you here but it's your second in a way.
The First one was 1 year after eve came out and you sent a e-mail to all beta people giving them 14 days free.
I know this because it was the only reason why i came back to eve..
:P
You are absolutely right!
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Tortilla Smasher
Amarr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 08:55:00 -
[43]
I WUB J00 OVEUR!
This is a signature. <Un-hijacked since forever *emo-tear> |
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CCP Oveur
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Janu Hull
Le stuff.
And I'm sure they are glad you believe them. Have you ever tried to run anything in your life? Been a parent? Grill cook? anything like that?
I have and I'm a parent. And I cook!
Originally by: Mortania
How much time before the merger did Oveur spend thinking about Atlanta or Whitewolf properties? How much now? How much of that time that he spends now thinking about Whitewolf properties takes away from the time he spends thinking about EVE?
Maybe Oveur doesn't, what about Hellmar?
I'm glad that you worry about me and Hellmars partying but I think it's none of your business what we do in our private life
Originally by: Mortania
There used to be a time when the only thing CCP thought about, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, every individual at CCP ever thought about was EVE. This was the core group of developers that made EVE, that launched EVE, that imbued EVE with life. This core group of developers is now sundered both in their minds and at thier company.
Your world truly is black and white isn't it? The new MMO is being made in Atlanta to prevent this from happening. A new team is being built there to prevent this from happening.
Originally by: Mortania
Who runs CCP China? Kjartan Pierre Emilsson. You know what he was the 5 years previous to that? Lead Game Designer on EVE. Now he runs China. I'm happy for him, I'm sure it's a terrific career move. But, let that sink in, the Lead Game Designer for EVE is no longer working on the core game anymore.
Yeah, he's running EVE China. Imagine that
Originally by: Mortania
Who works on the EVE CCG? 1 or 2 isolated people? More? I suspect from what I've seen, it's many people at the office, if not everyone at the office at one point or another.
That's quite an assumption. Here is the truth. It's all done in Atlanta at the White Wolf offices by 1 person who's working on multiple projects. Occasionally, more are involved, but that's about it.
Originally by: Mortania
Let's talk about an office of 20 people versus and office of 100 people. The overhead, the management of that many people is enormous. How much time does Hellmar think about his 100 employees versus EVE Online?
That's what we have managers like me for. To think about the 200 people that are here, 150 of which are working on EVE Online.
Originally by: Mortania
If you think that all of these additions do not detract "one iota" from the core game, then you are fooling yourself.
If you think that you have the facts straight about the innards of my beloved company - no, my life - then you are fooling yourself
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Freylor
Gallente
SnowSink Enterprises.
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:04:00 -
[45]
Oveur is fiesty today :P
--- |
Grainsalt
Free Corp
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Takaharu Tsuyoshi
Originally by: Grainsalt
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Thank you and goodnight!
Just to clarify, they are doing the new models, the high-res ones, fixing all the flaws and stuff in the old ones. This will then be deployed when the new graphics engine is out.
If you can bribe one of the minions to remedial fix it before next year I will lend you my pink boa.... Go on!
---
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Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
Doomcraft
Mech Ops Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:10:00 -
[47]
somebody throw some water on him.. HE'S ON FIRE!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Xaroth Brook
[Datacore - Quantum Physics] x 40
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:14:00 -
[48]
He sure is. I like it!
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
ISD will never find me... In my signature! |
Necronomicon
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:31:00 -
[49]
Thread won, accusers spanked, nothing to see here.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Jaggeh
Furious Angels
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 09:36:00 -
[50]
someone is in a fighting mood
---------------------------------------
Furious Angels are recruiting
Travel To Eve Fest From Ireland |
DarkFenix
Caldari
Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:38:00 -
[51]
If Eve wasn't already Oveur's, that post would have won it
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Mortania
Minmatar
Carbide Industries
Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.04.25 06:50:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mortania on 25/04/2007 06:47:35
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Janu Hull
Le stuff.
And I'm sure they are glad you believe them. Have you ever tried to run anything in your life? Been a parent? Grill cook? anything like that?
I have and I'm a parent. And I cook!
...
If you think that you have the facts straight about the innards of my beloved company - no, my life - then you are fooling yourself
Wasn't expecting a direct response from you, Oveur, but glad to oblige.
I think I have a fairly good idea of what yours and CCP life is like since I have an nearly identical job as you, and have helped grow a software development company from start to several hundred employees.
I can state as fact that the moment we moved to a second and third project within the company, that of the original core group of devs who allowed themselves to be divided in their thinking they became worse at both of the two jobs or two projects that they tried to run.
Yes, we found people who were very smart and very creative to fill the ranks of the legions of jobs that had to be filled once you start expanding a company; but it's never the same again. The bond of understanding and creative alignment is never the same as it was originally.
This can be a good and bad thing: new blood, new ideas, new creative energies, all good. More people to "get on-board", more ideas that get championed and discussed, etc.
Is the direction that EVE is going now better? That's for the individual consumers to judge in the end.
Yes, you have more accounts (I know I've gone from 1 to multiple) now than before. But, I vividly recall that not being the concern of CCP. Maybe it's changed, maybe reaching EQ numbers is the goal. But, we can't deny it has changed.
I still remember having played E&B Beta and coming to EVE when it launched and reading the devs saying that "EVE will never have walking in stations." (paraphrased)
I know if it was the original CCP I'd have 100% confidence that it would be nothing but gold. With the CCP of 2007, I'm only 80% confident it will be purely a win.
And you can convince everyone else that we get Ambulation for free (including all of the debugging, feature expansions, server load, content creation, content expansions, and future debugging), but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
---
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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.04.25 07:00:00 -
[53]
**clicky**
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Aknot Wat
Gallente
Carbide Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:48:00 -
[54]
Good old Mort. You think this is bad...hey I have to WORK with him.[RP wise in EvE I mean]
;)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When have I ever not been playing EvE? Proudly serving since day three of beta. |
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Freylor
Oveur is fiesty today :P
Lol, he's never anything else. Joy too watch.... most of the time atleast. :-D
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.27 00:04:00 -
[56]
i enjoyed oveur's laying the smackdown on some crazy pessimistic poster !
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31i73
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 05:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: 31i73
The OP has a good point. No player should hope that more players would come to EVE, because it will only lead to worse performance. Max playable fleet-fight size is getting smaller and smaller all the time
More customers = worse service
see thats the flawed thinking i was talking about right there
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
It would be IF more players would mean less lag. It doesn't
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.27 05:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: 31i73
It would be IF more players would mean less lag. It doesn't
it will in time
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.04.27 06:00:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: 31i73
More customers = worse service
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
The hardware and software cannot handle todays numbers in battles already. It cannot handle it by a far far way. Remember those LARGE 'battles' with 500+ people involved? It was anything but a battle. It was pure lag, very frustrating and really bad.
I cannot imagine that eve could handle such large battles anytime in the near future. Heck, there are reports of battles with 200 people which are really laggy and not playable.
And you cannot buy much better hardware with money. CCP got already top quality stuff. So how do you think will it be possible to improve the lag situation if suddenly 50k or 60k people are online at the same time?
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Magnum Omega
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 07:44:00 -
[60]
What CCP is doing is all good and I expected and was wishing this stuff to be done from the start.
I'm glad they got with White wolf and my dreams of a complete EVE will be coming true. Awesome job CCP.
And I can not understand why anyone would care about others joining the game, how dare you? I mean man you guys got nerve.
Just don't try to destroy this game in the future just because of some obsessive behavior problem.
Nothing is changing just getting more and better, so relax. It id normal and more so what I would hope for and expect.
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Magnum Omega
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 07:55:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Magnum Omega on 27/04/2007 08:03:27
Edited by: Magnum Omega on 27/04/2007 07:52:24
Originally by: Mortania
Edited by: Mortania on 25/04/2007 06:47:35
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Janu Hull
Le stuff.
And I'm sure they are glad you believe them. Have you ever tried to run anything in your life? Been a parent? Grill cook? anything like that?
I have and I'm a parent. And I cook!
...
If you think that you have the facts straight about the innards of my beloved company - no, my life - then you are fooling yourself
Wasn't expecting a direct response from you, Oveur, but glad to oblige.
I think I have a fairly good idea of what yours and CCP life is like since I have an nearly identical job as you, and have helped grow a software development company from start to several hundred employees.
I can state as fact that the moment we moved to a second and third project within the company, that of the original core group of devs who allowed themselves to be divided in their thinking they became worse at both of the two jobs or two projects that they tried to run.
Yes, we found people who were very smart and very creative to fill the ranks of the legions of jobs that had to be filled once you start expanding a company; but it's never the same again. The bond of understanding and creative alignment is never the same as it was originally.
This can be a good and bad thing: new blood, new ideas, new creative energies, all good. More people to "get on-board", more ideas that get championed and discussed, etc.
Is the direction that EVE is going now better? That's for the individual consumers to judge in the end.
Yes, you have more accounts (I know I've gone from 1 to multiple) now than before. But, I vividly recall that not being the concern of CCP. Maybe it's changed, maybe reaching EQ numbers is the goal. But, we can't deny it has changed.
I still remember having played E&B Beta and coming to EVE when it launched and reading the devs saying that "EVE will never have walking in stations." (paraphrased)
I know if it was the original CCP I'd have 100% confidence that it would be nothing but gold. With the CCP of 2007, I'm only 80% confident it will be purely a win.
And you can convince everyone else that we get Ambulation for free (including all of the debugging, feature expansions, server load, content creation, content expansions, and future debugging), but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
IÆm sure you are a good person normally but right now you are projecting your companyÆs problems onto CCP? Please relax and chill, you have some issues? And you are making a common mistake people make so chill and realize everything is not the same, ok?
Are you going to get some sort of obsessive disorder behavior going on now with EVE?
DonÆt worry, many many people act like you in every MMO I played so far, sad really but not much anyone can do except the obsessed person himself. Get it? I hope.
P.S. I do not mean to be rude and am sorry if it sounds that way but I had to say something.
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Magnum Omega
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 08:11:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Magnum Omega on 27/04/2007 08:09:26
Edited by: Magnum Omega on 27/04/2007 08:07:58
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: 31i73
More customers = worse service
more players = more money = better service is the correct thought train
The hardware and software cannot handle todays numbers in battles already. It cannot handle it by a far far way. Remember those LARGE 'battles' with 500+ people involved? It was anything but a battle. It was pure lag, very frustrating and really bad.
I cannot imagine that eve could handle such large battles anytime in the near future. Heck, there are reports of battles with 200 people which are really laggy and not playable.
And you cannot buy much better hardware with money. CCP got already top quality stuff. So how do you think will it be possible to improve the lag situation if suddenly 50k or 60k people are online at the same time?
What is the problem? How many times you have to be told if they have to put everthing on it's own computer they will.
It is just that when blobs of 200+ fight, you can not put them on their own 200 computers, they are in one system, but there are things being done about that too. of course,. I mean no kidding.
Have fun and stop looking for the negitive.
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Karunel
Princeps Corp
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:16:00 -
[63]
Oveur I love you when you spank people. \o/
____
Originally by: elbenito
The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 09:46:00 -
[64]
Anyone that feels a company like CCP cannot handle multiple projects, I point you to Blizzard they are able to do it, you can even look at them in the same light.
Of course CCP perhaps did skip the RTS game, that sold to many to count, but thats besides the point 
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Fraunk
|
Posted - 2007.04.27 09:53:00 -
[65]
Walking in stations only came to the fore after CCP bought/amalgamated with White Wolf, there was no plans for it before then, that we the players know of, so why now, is the question alot of people are asking themselves. Imo its because the want a head start on the engine for the new MMO, i cant see any other reason.
What does walking in stations bring to the game apart from eye candy, looking at maps?, we can do this already, the reason this upsets/gets people angry is because sane players see this for what it is, the player base of eve is being used, to fund an engine thats not really going to bring anything new, plus we get the added bonus of having to play test it once its ingame.
The real sad part is where has planetary flight gone?, id much rather see that than walking in station tripe.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.27 09:55:00 -
[66]
Read most of the thread, but some of it didnt get read so my head didnt explode.
heres my views on the situation.
1) CCP needs to assimilate more forum moderators. Well not really moderators. We do not need more folks going around ninja-closing threads. These people would serve a very important job, communication. Thats one thing that I see as lacking right now, communication between CCP and the players. (Ok so oveur posting that much was strange, but yeh, i rarely see that).
2)CCP needs to be more forthcoming with some stuff. I doubt CCP is deaf, they wouldnt have lasted this long if they were. So I know they are hearing the issues that are poping up. I do not mean the pointless flames, i mean the valid issues. Example:
Originally by: Grainsalt
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Getting some feedback from CCP on issues like this would go a long way. Even bad feedback. For instance "Yes, we are aware of the issue. But its so far on the not-important scale with the combat fixes that we will get it done afterwards. But we are aware of it" would still be good because communication is good.
3)More players..isnt a good thing. Yes yes the whole more players is more cash, blah blah. Thats nice.
Want to know what attracted me to EVE? A friend of mine from class. I saw him looking at a forum...this forum actually, almost 1 year ago. He told me about the game then I asked one question. "How is the community? Is it stupid large like WoW where you know no one or is it smaller and a close knit community?" He answered that it was alot more closeknit than other MMO's. More players..kills that. And a closeknit community is something I value, dont know bout the rest of you. And from two members of my corp which are 3-4 year old EVE members, yeh...the way they describe the old days make me wish i had played sooner.
4)Realize that 99% of the community is here for the game and will do anything asked to help the game. (Even those like me that can be rather..crass at times). So the devs come up with some nifty idea? They wonder if the players will like it? Do it, explain the idea on the forum and let the players respond.
5)And Realize this...the players are the blood of the game. No i dont mean the whole "15bucks a month, blah blah" thing. If the players werent here then thered be no game. To that end (And yes this is similar to point 4) let us help. Not just the select few that get hired. I am talking about the rest of us. I dont know about the rest of yall, but id help in any way possible short of moving to another country.
Blarg thats it.
If Oveur actually responds to my post i will so pod myself -.- But i think thats a safe bet.
Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like an ignorant child.
::Im paid to talk, not to be civil.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.27 10:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Vactet
Read most of the thread, but some of it didnt get read so my head didnt explode.
heres my views on the situation.
1) CCP needs to assimilate more forum moderators. Well not really moderators. We do not need more folks going around ninja-closing threads. These people would serve a very important job, communication. Thats one thing that I see as lacking right now, communication between CCP and the players. (Ok so oveur posting that much was strange, but yeh, i rarely see that).
2)CCP needs to be more forthcoming with some stuff. I doubt CCP is deaf, they wouldnt have lasted this long if they were. So I know they are hearing the issues that are poping up. I do not mean the pointless flames, i mean the valid issues. Example:
Originally by: Grainsalt
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Getting some feedback from CCP on issues like this would go a long way. Even bad feedback. For instance "Yes, we are aware of the issue. But its so far on the not-important scale with the combat fixes that we will get it done afterwards. But we are aware of it" would still be good because communication is good.
3)More players..isnt a good thing. Yes yes the whole more players is more cash, blah blah. Thats nice.
Want to know what attracted me to EVE? A friend of mine from class. I saw him looking at a forum...this forum actually, almost 1 year ago. He told me about the game then I asked one question. "How is the community? Is it stupid large like WoW where you know no one or is it smaller and a close knit community?" He answered that it was alot more closeknit than other MMO's. More players..kills that. And a closeknit community is something I value, dont know bout the rest of you. And from two members of my corp which are 3-4 year old EVE members, yeh...the way they describe the old days make me wish i had played sooner.
4)Realize that 99% of the community is here for the game and will do anything asked to help the game. (Even those like me that can be rather..crass at times). So the devs come up with some nifty idea? They wonder if the players will like it? Do it, explain the idea on the forum and let the players respond.
5)And Realize this...the players are the blood of the game. No i dont mean the whole "15bucks a month, blah blah" thing. If the players werent here then thered be no game. To that end (And yes this is similar to point 4) let us help. Not just the select few that get hired. I am talking about the rest of us. I dont know about the rest of yall, but id help in any way possible short of moving to another country.
Blarg thats it.
If Oveur actually responds to my post i will so pod myself -.- But i think thats a safe bet.
I'll be awaiting your frozen corpse in Jita.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Fraunk
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Posted - 2007.04.27 10:17:00 -
[68]
Ove any chance u can expand on what ambulation will bring in the long run to EVE, using it for planetary interaction ? erm erm more things to do in station? (stock market type thing/room?) as i honestly cant see what it brings to EVE at the moment.
P.S the updated stock details for NPC corps in the items database is making me drool
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.27 10:34:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Fraunk
Ove any chance u can expand on what ambulation will bring in the long run to EVE, using it for planetary interaction ? erm erm more things to do in station? (stock market type thing/room?) as i honestly cant see what it brings to EVE at the moment.
P.S the updated stock details for NPC corps in the items database is making me drool
I could, but I'd have to kill you
Well, the main difference is, some years ago, we were too small to take Ambulation on and we didn't really feel it would add any value. Now we feel the technology is there, we have the people and the funds to start it.
However, we want to emphasize the social aspect, the combat exists outside stations. We're not ruling it out in the future but first it's social, like Gambling and such.
The environments which we're thinking of doing in the first runs is not only inside stations but also captains quarters on ships, where you can show off your achievements and such. Possibly starbase control tower centers. Corporation establishments and mingling places (bars etc.) is what's at the top of the list, for meetings, recruitment and such.
We can fire up this environment anywhere, it's just a question of what to do there and the purpose of it. This is just thoughts tho but maybe it gives you a bit more insight into what we're thinking. This is a long term project which will compliment everything from ships to planets.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Fraunk
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Posted - 2007.04.27 10:40:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Fraunk on 27/04/2007 10:40:51
thank you very very much, i hope this goes some way to placating the issue, gambling sounds cool, but plz think about a stock exchange too, will be a pain to balance since alot of peeps have alot of cash to hit the exchange with but i think its needed. EVE is corporate so stocks just make sense if u know what i mean.
Thanks again for the post.
PS u can kill me anytime u like after yer post, you have make a semi jaded player think anew, plus i cant play just now coz me GFX cards fan is not working on auto, 80c and rising just sitting at log in screen  never buy XFX cards lol
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:26:00 -
[71]
That wasnt a response dangit. I actually wanted some sort of feedback from what I said.
-.-
And seeing as you tried for it once, ill go make sure my clone is upgraded.
Oh and jita is far..contract with the corpse will be in Gelfiven..
Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like an ignorant child.
::Im paid to talk, not to be civil.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Grainsalt
Free Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:28:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Vactet
Read most of the thread, but some of it didnt get read so my head didnt explode.
heres my views on the situation.
1) CCP needs to assimilate more forum moderators. Well not really moderators. We do not need more folks going around ninja-closing threads. These people would serve a very important job, communication. Thats one thing that I see as lacking right now, communication between CCP and the players. (Ok so oveur posting that much was strange, but yeh, i rarely see that).
2)CCP needs to be more forthcoming with some stuff. I doubt CCP is deaf, they wouldnt have lasted this long if they were. So I know they are hearing the issues that are poping up. I do not mean the pointless flames, i mean the valid issues. Example:
Originally by: Grainsalt
Wow! 80 people doing modelling, and the Chimera is still broken after 1 1/2 years.. Roll on 2008
Getting some feedback from CCP on issues like this would go a long way. Even bad feedback. For instance "Yes, we are aware of the issue. But its so far on the not-important scale with the combat fixes that we will get it done afterwards. But we are aware of it" would still be good because communication is good.
3)More players..isnt a good thing. Yes yes the whole more players is more cash, blah blah. Thats nice.
Want to know what attracted me to EVE? A friend of mine from class. I saw him looking at a forum...this forum actually, almost 1 year ago. He told me about the game then I asked one question. "How is the community? Is it stupid large like WoW where you know no one or is it smaller and a close knit community?" He answered that it was alot more closeknit than other MMO's. More players..kills that. And a closeknit community is something I value, dont know bout the rest of you. And from two members of my corp which are 3-4 year old EVE members, yeh...the way they describe the old days make me wish i had played sooner.
4)Realize that 99% of the community is here for the game and will do anything asked to help the game. (Even those like me that can be rather..crass at times). So the devs come up with some nifty idea? They wonder if the players will like it? Do it, explain the idea on the forum and let the players respond.
5)And Realize this...the players are the blood of the game. No i dont mean the whole "15bucks a month, blah blah" thing. If the players werent here then thered be no game. To that end (And yes this is similar to point 4) let us help. Not just the select few that get hired. I am talking about the rest of us. I dont know about the rest of yall, but id help in any way possible short of moving to another country.
Blarg thats it.
If Oveur actually responds to my post i will so pod myself -.- But i think thats a safe bet.
I'll be awaiting your frozen corpse in Jita.
Ownage! But not actually answered... hint hint... *cough* chimera...
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.27 11:34:00 -
[73]
Actually ive seen a chimera pilot get a kill because of the graphic problem...
It turned out afterwards that the guy got confused by its size and thought it was some faction BS. So he freaked when the fighters came out.
Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like an ignorant child.
::Im paid to talk, not to be civil.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.04.27 15:13:00 -
[74]
The Business Model for Eve Development work is relatively low requirement stuff, updates mostly rather than significant design changes or code requirements, and can probably be handled by a much smaller team. Whilst the player base grows, the number of new accounts opening will eventually (in theory tail off), and the earning value (or more importantly borrowing value of CCP stabalises).
Development of a new portfolio alongside eve would generate additional revenue in excess of the eve market appeal (but including a percentage of it) and extend the potential value of both the company, and its borrowing power, far more than concentration on a single property.
Further more it allows them to utilise expert staff more effectively, particually development and technical staff. After a point on Eve the need for coders and developers reduces over time (for the core package support), whilst alongside them would have operated a coding team for updates, bug fixing etc...
The initial developers involved in creating the engine and universe of eve are be utilised in developing a new product, as their specialisation and skills do not lie with engine construction, upgrade and modification, but in core development, initial roll outs, technical specifications, graphic modelling, system design etc...
Also creating for a new product, allows you to role out whole new enviroments into the other product (such as walking in stations - this is not being developed for eve, but sensible Control of the Development and programming for the new product would allow you to add it with only minimal changes to the graphical layout).
Staff in IT tend to be project, support and service orientated. Project develop, support resolve the problems and service control the integration, delivery and changes.
The three are not as a rule easily interchangable.
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Magnum Omega
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Posted - 2007.04.27 16:39:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Fraunk
Walking in stations only came to the fore after CCP bought/amalgamated with White Wolf, there was no plans for it before then, that we the players know of, so why now, is the question allot of people are asking themselves. Imo itÆs because the want a head start on the engine for the new MMO, I can't see any other reason.
What does walking in stations bring to the game apart from eye candy, looking at maps?, we can do this already, the reason this upsets/gets people angry is because sane players see this for what it is, the player base of eve is being used, to fund an engine thatÆs not really going to bring anything new, plus we get the added bonus of having to play test it once its in game.
The real sad part is where has planetary flight gone?, id much rather see that than walking in station tripe.
EVE is about the EVE story and not just about sitting in a ship, it is just that before the only way to express EVE was with ships and some other stuff
Now in stations EVE continues and I hope much more in everyway in the future. No kidding.
I always wanted walking in station and what ever else and the POINT is for me that I'm glad White Wolf came along to help us in this.
Thank you White Wolf!
Gee two companies helping each other? Who ever thought of such an idea?!!!
And yes it will bring much to the game no thanks to people with doom and gloom outlooks on life.
What is with people not wanting games to get better?
This is a great space flight game and always will be but the story of EVE is what people really want to get into and this is just an addition to it, it is good and logical and normal and will not change the way you play.
This will add just more ways to play.
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.27 17:10:00 -
[76]
My one concern with walking in stations is that...
Jita 4-4 will turn into a giant Ironforge (Dear god that place was stupidly chaotic) with the ability to go inside the station.
I mean have you ever looked at how many are docked at 4-4?
That would be insane...
Sometimes the world needs to be kicked in the face to stop drooling on itself like an ignorant child.
::Im paid to talk, not to be civil.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.04.27 17:20:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Theory
We're hiring aggressively for two games, you're quite right. It's for the a new project in Atlanta. The other one is EVE. Just the renovation of all the 3D models in EVE (not including the graphics engine) is about 80 people.
EVE is still growing rapidly, we're about 2000 short of 170.000 paying subscribers. Not counting EVE China or trials.
Nice post, good theory, but based on wrong assumptions.
100 men/day + 100 men/day make 200 men/day. If eve was 100 men/day per day, I don't have a problem with CCP growing to 200 (numbers... who cares :) i'm talking about scales)
I have no problems with 200 peeps in CCP running on two projects. If they work as hard as they did on Eve on their new mmo, it's cool : it'll be a success.
Then, in the very long time, CCp will hire 100 new guys etc and buy EA. :) \o/
I don't expect Eve to be better, faster or anything "more" than it is today. Today, it is great for us : we have a concern, a dev listen to it (and sometimes replies). We have a bug, things are repared (but sometimes it's long... but hey, videogames industry never repair the big bugs that anoy players).
I really don't expect Eve to be better if CCP++ 100. I expect them to release a good new mmo, that I can play Eve for the next two year at least :)
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History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher
(...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.04.27 17:26:00 -
[78]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Blah blah blah.
We're not ruling it out in the future but first it's social, like Gambling and such.
Blah blah blah.
Yeah, baby! Texas hold'em, gotta have it! I wanna see the first "Galactic Series of Poker", held in Jita, 1 billion ISK buy in!
Wred
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Think out of the box, consider passive shield tanking your Myrmidon, you'll be pleasantly surprised! |
Mortania
Minmatar
Carbide Industries
Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.04.27 20:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Magnum Omega
IÆm sure you are a good person normally but right now you are projecting your companyÆs problems onto CCP? Please relax and chill, you have some issues? And you are making a common mistake people make so chill and realize everything is not the same, ok?
Are you going to get some sort of obsessive disorder behavior going on now with EVE?
DonÆt worry, many many people act like you in every MMO I played so far, sad really but not much anyone can do except the obsessed person himself. Get it? I hope.
P.S. I do not mean to be rude and am sorry if it sounds that way but I had to say something.
I'm actually quite chill, text doesn't convey subtle emotions very well (nor enjoyment for debate).
I've been in game development for over a decade, at more than one company, always in a producer/senior producer role, and I know people from many other companies, and owners of other companies. I don't speak from a narrow perspective here. I don't have insight on the icelandic bent of game development, but on startups and growing companies, I'm pretty broadly informed.
To be clear: I'm still confident that Ambulation will most likely be cool, just not as confident as I would have been if it had been part of the core compulsion of the game from years ago. I still love this game, and I'll still be playing it for years to come.
That said, diversification of product is great for CCP, great for the individuals at CCP, it just isn't automatically great for people who play EVE. Especially at first. Years from now, when everyone has fully adjusted, the new MMO is online, the roles are filled, etc. it will be a win for EVE and players of EVE, right now, we get to go through the growing pains. In non-MMO situations customers only pay when the company puts out a product and they get to judge that product; for the MMO world, we continue to pay through this learning and expansion phase. (Mad props to CCP for continued free expansions, btw, unlike their counterparts in this realm).
Postions I'd like to see CCP open:
Online Documention: have one/several people who's only job is to update the information which is sadly out of date online.
Forums/tools programmer: how many better forums, and jump calculators, and ship fits, etc have we seen from the community but not from CCP? Something official could be worlds better than all but the best of the community created tools
QA: 100? 200? how many can we afford? Spelling/grammar errors from the shipped product still exist, flipped normals on ships, dozens and dozens of "5-minute fixes" exist that would help. Genius is in the details. Also, patch and updates testing while ok, isn't amazing, there are always surprising amounts of fixes to the fixes that need to occur. It has always seemed like CCP's QA could really use a big boost. Maybe they have a poo-pooing attitude towards QA (I've seen this at several places), maybe their QA is just too small, maybe they have a great attitude and huge QA and just underestimate the amount of testing each change needs, I dunno. Maybe they've found the perfect balance to offset diminshing returns on QA and it's just what it is. But, having played and read the forums for going on 4 years now, it's the most common topic.
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Estan Drake
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We're not ruling it out in the future but first it's social, like Gambling and such.
(More blah blah stuff..)Possibly starbase control tower centers (blah blah)
We can fire up this environment anywhere, it's just a question of what to do there and the purpose of it. This is just thoughts tho but maybe it gives you a bit more insight into what we're thinking. This is a long term project which will compliment everything from ships to planets.
See.. now hes got me excited for something I thought was going to be pointless.
I would be even more excited if those starbase control centers looked like a command center (you know, with one of those giant table sized maps) showing your base, its defenses, and the enemy. And then being able to order turrets to engage specific targets.
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Chadwyk
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Posted - 2007.09.26 21:55:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Chadwyk on 26/09/2007 21:55:52
what eve need is a more interactive environment, as a wow player myself what kept me stuck to wow was its incredible playing environment which eve so far doesn't have, you're only tied to astroid fields stations stargates and around planets, walking in station is good initiative from the team, am also looking forward to more interaction with planets atmosphere, and finally fix all the damn bugs...
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 21:57:00 -
[82]
i always loved burning up in freelancer
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Cyberflayer
Vagabonds Unincorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:14:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Combine that with knowing that a LARGE amount of the "active" players in game are ALTS...
Sorry to skip through the four pages of following replies, but is there any actual proof to support this oft-cited compliant?
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Moto's Sig
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Damon Ra
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:17:00 -
[84]
Seeing all the posts in this thread that contain gold bars is very enlightening, especially when you consider all the other threads here requesting official CCP responses to REAL issues with the game that go unanswered.
Current Tranquility status:
SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
Caldorous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:38:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Damon Ra
Seeing all the posts in this thread that contain gold bars is very enlightening, especially when you consider all the other threads here requesting official CCP responses to REAL issues with the game that go unanswered.
Remember the things you believe that are REAL issues for you, might not be that important for the devs.
-----------------------------
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rig0r
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:39:00 -
[86]
Edited by: rig0r on 26/09/2007 22:39:39
Originally by: Mortania
Postions I'd like to see CCP open:
Online Documention: have one/several people who's only job is to update the information which is sadly out of date online.
Forums/tools programmer: how many better forums, and jump calculators, and ship fits, etc have we seen from the community but not from CCP? Something official could be worlds better than all but the best of the community created tools
QA: 100? 200? how many can we afford? Spelling/grammar errors from the shipped product still exist, flipped normals on ships, dozens and dozens of "5-minute fixes" exist that would help. Genius is in the details. Also, patch and updates testing while ok, isn't amazing, there are always surprising amounts of fixes to the fixes that need to occur. It has always seemed like CCP's QA could really use a big boost. Maybe they have a poo-pooing attitude towards QA (I've seen this at several places), maybe their QA is just too small, maybe they have a great attitude and huge QA and just underestimate the amount of testing each change needs, I dunno. Maybe they've found the perfect balance to offset diminshing returns on QA and it's just what it is. But, having played and read the forums for going on 4 years now, it's the most common topic.
Agreed on the documentation (there is some sort of official EVE wiki coming in the future). Agreed on the forums (having to press quote 3 times before it actually works kinda sucks).
Disagreed on 3rd party tools. The community is perfectly capable of making all kinds of good tools, why would CCP do a better job ? There will always be hobbyists, you should be glad CCP provides them with datadumps and more recently the EVE API (how unique is that in the MMO world ?).
Sort of agreed on QA, if you've been playing this game for 4 years you should know that QA has improved over the years. Compare the deployment of expansions 2 or 3 years ago to the most recent deployments. That's quite an improvement. The only area that needs more attention is server stability and performance but as we know they are working on that.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:42:00 -
[87]
I want to see block wars in station.
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acompton
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:47:00 -
[88]
Walking in stations will be useful only if we can then beat the living crap out of people who necro threads...
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Damon Ra
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.27 03:52:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Caldorous
Originally by: Damon Ra
Seeing all the posts in this thread that contain gold bars is very enlightening, especially when you consider all the other threads here requesting official CCP responses to REAL issues with the game that go unanswered.
Remember the things you believe that are REAL issues for you, might not be that important for the devs.
I was referring to all the broken stuff but thanks for trolling.
Current Tranquility status:
SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.09.27 04:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: acompton
Walking in stations will be useful only if we can then beat the living crap out of people who necro threads...
Oh yes.... mmmm  
Concord offers PUNISHMENT, not protection
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.27 04:32:00 -
[91]
I want to see more threads Necroed!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Dant Kramble
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Posted - 2007.09.27 05:12:00 -
[92]
Since it's done been necro'ed I always wanted to ask:
I am one of those ex-Earth&Beyond types, having picked up Eve before EA pulled the plug.
But I recently read the wiki page for E&B that it started with 400k subscribers, peaked at 650k and then dwindled down to nothing.
My question is, how can CCP rock so hard with numbers that caused EA to pull the plug? How is 200k a sign of success? E&B started losing resources when it had twice as many subscribers.
Now, imo, EVE is an incredible success on just about any dimension you name. I just don't know the financial side of the industry enough, I guess, so can't assess that. Has something structural changed so that a game can be lucrative with 200k when it was a tragedy back then? Or did EA just suck so much they wrecked a reasonably functioning subscriber base?
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.27 05:44:00 -
[93]
Its all about profit margin, not raw numbers of subscribers... as well as who is actually holding the purse strings.
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ISD Rauth Kivaro
ISD STAR
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Posted - 2007.09.27 06:13:00 -
[94]
Please don't necro.
*click*
forum rules | [email protected] | Our Website
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Ka'rahni
Universal Core Mining
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Posted - 2007.09.27 06:16:00 -
[95]
I hope EVE implements a system to walk in stations and such. I would enjoy nothing more than having my character walk around in a classy suit recruiting members.
Basically my dream.
Also, multiple friends of mine have talked about how they would definitely play EVE if it had a planet interaction feature. A few of them have said they would like to see a Star Wars Galaxies mixed with EVE. As long as the planetary play was better than SWG, I would be fine with this :)
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Zana Kito
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Posted - 2007.09.27 06:20:00 -
[96]
Tabula Rasa will be a big attraction for a lot of sci fi fans, and it's only 2 months to go! (i've pre-ordered and so have my buddies)
Beyond that you have Star Trek, Huxley, Star Gate, and Jump Gate Evolution. Lots of competition, especially from brand names like star trek/gate.
Eve's biggest hurdle for new players are the gameplay and servers, both needs extensive work. Graphics helps, but doesn't matter if a game is pretty when it gets bogged down or simply a chore to play.
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