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Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
   |
Posted - 2007.04.23 12:30:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 23/04/2007 12:26:57
This follows on from this topic a little bit:
Linkage
Basically looking at alternatives for big ships to counter frigates without NOS.
Just thinking what is really needed is some kind of area effect flak cannon, that can rapidly fire a projectile that explodes on proximity and sends shards of shrapnel out towards nearby targets. Its the way big ships have been defending themselves from fast fighters for years. It shouldn't do a great deal of damage per hit, but if a frigate gets to close the damage gets more intense. Particularly if a group of battleships are working together to provide a "shield" against tacklers getting close to the rest of the fleet.
For all you out there who'll immediately say BS are no supposed to be wtfsolopwnmobiles, just remember that you'll have very little effectiveness against anything your not outfitted to attack, so a proper high DPS battleship will be able to kill you.
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Viktor VonCarstein
Amarr
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.23 12:59:00 -
[2]
I actually quite like this idea.
It would make BS's working together with specific fits really good.
So you could have your normal tankers, gankers etc. When combined however, with a couple of flak cannons together they would be able to stop the frigs.
Safety in numbers against the small craft.
Damage output of this type of module would have to be carefully balanced, as well as NOS taking a nerf against small fast ships, otherwise why fit them.
http://sprayandpray.xippy.co.uk |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.23 13:05:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tista on 23/04/2007 13:03:02
this is a good idea but it is also flawed.
Since most frigates orbit rather than clump together the likleyhood of this type of weapon actualy being effective i very slim.
I believe webbers should just have increased range such as:
webber optimal: 10km
webber fall off: 20km
and as they reach further out the effectivness of the webber should be reduced so at 29km it would be next to -3% and at 20km it ould be more like 25%
or some sort of chain weapon like a chain plasma weapon whereby it fires a bolt that hits one target and links onto others.. not too powerful and has multiple damage types with low damage on each and differnt ammunitions to suit ranges.
--------------------
My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Jayne Tamm
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Posted - 2007.04.23 13:22:00 -
[4]
webbers dont need increased range....people just need to use webber drones more!
i use them and find them extremely useful as i can webb people from 35 + km away, then let the big guns take em down ;)
simple solution if u drop the damage dealing drones.
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Galen Silas
Gallente
Lucky Hydra Corp
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 13:38:00 -
[5]
The Flak idea sounds good, not only would it be effective against frigs and such but also for those fights where you get the usual mass of drones on you. Of couse though a smartbomb might have the same effect.
Come up with some mock stats to post and give us a better idea of what you mean by using numbers.
NIIIIIIIIIIIICE!! |
Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 13:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 23/04/2007 13:39:37
 Originally by: Tista
Edited by: Tista on 23/04/2007 13:03:02
this is a good idea but it is also flawed.
Since most frigates orbit rather than clump together the likleyhood of this type of weapon actualy being effective i very slim.
I believe webbers should just have increased range such as:
webber optimal: 10km
webber fall off: 20km
and as they reach further out the effectivness of the webber should be reduced so at 29km it would be next to -3% and at 20km it ould be more like 25%
or some sort of chain weapon like a chain plasma weapon whereby it fires a bolt that hits one target and links onto others.. not too powerful and has multiple damage types with low damage on each and differnt ammunitions to suit ranges.
It would need to have area effect like smartbombs, think of each round as being a projected smartbomb. So the battleship can fire its flak barrier at (x) km from itself, damaging any ship flying within that area, the longer a ship stays within that distance of the BS the more damage it takes, that way a group of ships (tempests / maelstrom would be ideal) can work together to create a fence of flak either destroying or heavily damaging ships attempting to "run the gauntlet" through.
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 13:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Galen Silas
The Flak idea sounds good, not only would it be effective against frigs and such but also for those fights where you get the usual mass of drones on you. Of couse though a smartbomb might have the same effect.
Come up with some mock stats to post and give us a better idea of what you mean by using numbers.
Thinking about 5 BS in a cross "+" shaped formation spaced at probably 20km. Ideally you'd want to fit them with a strong tank (as they'd be on the front line) maybe 6 flak cannons, drones and a smartbomb (for really close targets). Usual damage types etc apply, but the important thing would be to have sufficent range to protect both themselves and the captials / snipers / gank ships behind them from being tackled.
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Galen Silas
Gallente
Lucky Hydra Corp
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 13:55:00 -
[8]
Do you have any stats for the actual module planned out?
I would actually be interested in seeing it.
NIIIIIIIIIIIICE!! |
Valea Silpha
Death Monkey's With Knives
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Posted - 2007.04.23 14:07:00 -
[9]
To make it balanced i think you would need to make it difficult to fit along side standard fittings, so everyone has to gimp themselves a bit to get one on. Otherwise i can't see a HUGE problem, but then again that depends on the range of it.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Jai Cee
Quam Singulari
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:07:00 -
[10]
I like the idea a lot but I think its the sort of thing that should be available in BC/BS sizes and need 2->3 ships to be effective against frigs and ceptors. Same sort of fitting as NOS has would be appropriate.
To the person who says use web drones, they work great vs cruisers and above but no decent tackler should be slow enough to be caught by them.
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Speed Devil
Caldari
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:26:00 -
[11]
flak would be nice ^
or some electric shock with 25km range that doesnt damage any ship, but just disables mwd or ab, something for in the midslots.
so small drones might actually be more effective to chase 5km/s+ intys.
*snip* That link is not appropriate. Please mail [email protected] if you have any questions. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) |
Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 15:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Galen Silas
Do you have any stats for the actual module planned out?
I would actually be interested in seeing it.
Flak Cannon I
A battleship classed artillery gun, designed to put up a wall of intense shrapnel at a defined range. Relatively ineffective by itself, but when multiple guns are used together the intesity of the barrier becomes nion-inpenetrable to smaller ships. However, the weapon is almost completely ineffective on larger ships.
The closer a target is to the firing ship, the more damage it will take.
Fitting
powergrid usage: 2250
cpu usage: 42
Structure
capacity
5 m3
mass
750 kg
volume
20 m3 packaged
Miscellaneous
activation cost
0
Rate of firerate of fire
2.4 sec
Maximum Range
32 km
Charge Rate
10
Damage Modifier
1.4
Charge size
Small
Accuracy falloff
35 km
Tracking Speed / Accuracy
N/A
Tech Level
1
Signature Resolution
100 m
Charge Type
Flak Cannon Ammo
Range to Damage Ratio
10:1
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
VJ Maverick
Caldari
Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tista
Edited by: Tista on 23/04/2007 13:03:02
this is a good idea but it is also flawed.
Since most frigates orbit rather than clump together the likleyhood of this type of weapon actualy being effective i very slim.
You misunderstand how flak weapons work. They don't work on the "clumpiness" of the target ships. They use "clumpiness" of the ordinance to hit fast moving targets - be it one target or a hundred of them.
Originally by: Tista
I believe webbers should just have increased range such as:
webber optimal: 10km
webber fall off: 20km
and as they reach further out the effectivness of the webber should be reduced so at 29km it would be next to -3% and at 20km it ould be more like 25%
This is a poorly thought-out idea. First, it would nerf minnie recons into uselessness. Second, it will further nerf small ships against bigger ships. The OP's goal, as I see it, is to give smaller ships a slight boost while giving BS's a non-NOS counter to them.
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ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:42:00 -
[14]
Flak cannons are like so last millenium, or like very minmatar.
I think laser flak globes (like in nexus the jupiter incident) would be good fun. If anybody hasn't played that game they are lots of green lasers that shoot anything small, with awsome RoF (including missiles) that come near you.
This would but a further blow to caldari's dmg output. Yarr 
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Wintermoon
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.23 15:44:00 -
[15]
Sounds like a modified smartbomb to me.
Just tune smarties up a bit and there we go.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Lord Harold ([email protected])
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.23 16:19:00 -
[16]
Just give us smartbomb drones :)
They fly around making 3 km radius SB blasts.....
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Archo X
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.23 16:24:00 -
[17]
Since this will undoubtably be a hi-slot item why not just fit a small or medium gun? Then you'd get all the frigate killing goodness with lower fitting needs and it's already in game.
Rokh with 8x 150mm rails, full shield tank, and lows loaded with damage mods=frigate death. For more carnage sacrifice the tank for webbers and painters.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Do not discuss moderation in your signature - Kreul Intentions
Double nerf |
Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 16:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Archo X
Since this will undoubtably be a hi-slot item why not just fit a small or medium gun? Then you'd get all the frigate killing goodness with lower fitting needs and it's already in game.
Rokh with 8x 150mm rails, full shield tank, and lows loaded with damage mods=frigate death. For more carnage sacrifice the tank for webbers and painters.
a) You've still got to lock them
b) Your assuming they are orbiting and not passing you by to tackler something bigger
c) You can only shoot one at once
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Tista
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 16:54:00 -
[19]
webbie drones are a god-send.
maelstrom + 4 webbies + artis/ acs gives them 45km webbing at 2400mps.
or better yet, megathron without the need to fit a webber in mids.
--------------------
My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 17:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Just give us smartbomb drones :)
They fly around making 3 km radius SB blasts.....
LOL, they would kinda kill each other.. no? 
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Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 20:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ReePeR McAllem
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Just give us smartbomb drones :)
They fly around making 3 km radius SB blasts.....
LOL, they would kinda kill each other.. no?
Lol, yup!
___________________
...and its "Armour" not "Armor" ... m'kay!
passive armour-tanking ftw! ;-) |
Kloro Draz
Gallente
Ex Coelis
|
Posted - 2007.04.23 23:42:00 -
[22]
They sound kinda overpowered, like a cross between missiles and smart-bombs without the drawbacks of either.
I think if they were implemented, you'd have no reason to have people flying in assault frigates.
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Tu Madre
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 00:53:00 -
[23]
i think its a cool idea - you should be able to dial the range of your flak - or at least use different ammo for a different range - might be able to use the hybrid charges or somthing its not over powered and would only be effective if you have 3-4 BS or they could make it so you need a to train a specifc ship i.e. a flak ship or somthing...
another idea i had was about having a ranged AOE weapon for flushing out stealth ships make the AOE quite small like max 3km but upon proximity to one of these "Depth Charges" the ship would come out of stelth for a certain amount of time and then after a small cool down be able to cloak again possible the AOE effect could inflict some damage as well with a possiblility to blow up the ship outright. im just thinking of the methods they used to flush out U boats
anyway - just musing while reading forums ate work
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ArtemisEntreri
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.24 03:12:00 -
[24]
To people shouting webber drones, they are stacking penalized now, so:
target going 100m/s
1 web drone = 70m/s
2 web drone = 52m/s
3 web drone = 44m/s
These are rough numbers btw, this means that a crow going 8km/s (very common) will go down to 3,5km? which isn't nearly slow enough.
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Bentula
|
Posted - 2007.04.24 07:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
To people shouting webber drones, they are stacking penalized now, so:
target going 100m/s
1 web drone = 70m/s
2 web drone = 52m/s
3 web drone = 44m/s
These are rough numbers btw, this means that a crow going 8km/s (very common) will go down to 3,5km? which isn't nearly slow enough.
Well your webbing drones will have a hard time even catching the crow in the first place at that speed  . Besides that, 3.5km would be more than enough to allow your support to tackle the crow and kill it. And if you fly a BS without support ... well what makes you think you deserve to kill a ceptor going at 8km/s?
I dont like that idea for a very simple reason, since you normally dont know the fitting of a enemy before you engage him, every BS would become a possible huge threat for frigs, thus frigs wont go engaging BS in general. Nos or EW only make you go away, this would kill you.
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