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So Wardecs have changed.... and Privateers wardec everyone before!

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Josan Alfuano	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker Originally by: Kahrek Laume The concept of high security is perfectly fine, it is just not total security. Sure it's not total security - people can do kamakazi runs and hope they pop their target before they get Concorded. Point being, while not 100% safe, high sec is meant to be virtually completely safe. It's the intention and spirit that CCP set out with - otherwise why have it at all. CCP wouldn't be making wardec changes if the current system wasn't being abused from its original intent, pure and simple. Eve is a game that spans a playerbase from carebares to casual PvPers, to dedicated pirates, to full-on sociopaths, and it was meant to have something to offer each of those types. Privateer's Alliance is a perversion and corruption of that spirit, hence CCP is taking action. The fundamental problem with a public shared sandbox is that each person brings outside expectations to the sandbox, and many get frustrated when the rules they expected don't match up. I have never felt that CCP wanted "carebears" in the game. There is a BIG difference between someone who is primarily industrial, or primarily pve, or primarily trader, and a carebear. I've had primarily industrial toons, and every one of them could fit at least a piece of EW or use combat drones to help out in a pinch. Mission running toons can easily refit for pvp (even better, just have a second, disposable ship with a pvp setup ready to go in your hanger). Traders now have more skills to contend with than they once did, but still can easily acquire the ability to tackle. There is a place for those tho truly wish to avoid combat-- npc corps. That is why they are there. Of course that means zero access to endgame material, but that is the trade off for what comes closest to safety in this game. Those who want to do POS's, who want to have corp wallets and shared hangers and capital ships, have to contend with wardecs. I'm kind of with Kahrek's vent above. If you don't like the rules of the sandbox, then just keep moving along. You pay for access, but you also can stop paying. There is no "investment" because if you aren't having $15 (check local listings) worth of fun, then you can stop and lose nothing, other that the fear of being a target. The idea that CCP should pander to the lowest common denominator flies in the face of what they started out to achieve: a niche space game of empire-building and conquest. Eve isn't for everyone, that is why it is a niche game. Many will try, not as many will buy. That is why the whole "single server" concept has worked so well, because Eve does NOT have mass-market appeal. If Eve had 6 million subscribers, CCP couldn't do this. I agree that Privateers perhaps pushed the envelope too far, but they were far from the first. As long as Eve has been around, pvpers have been wardeccing industrial corps in Eve. Fact of life and intended function. It forces industrialists to not be carebears if they want the fun stuff.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:19:00 - [32] Anyone want to hire a merc corp? I imagine there are a few new ones starting right about now with "Will Pew 4 Food" signs. "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell
Nicholas Barker Caldari Black Bands Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.24 20:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Phoenix Lord And since when was war deccing people the only fun way to pvp? holy crap man. when some fool at ccp decided to create pos and cap ships. ------------------------------------- if i'm not posting about tactics or lag, don't take my posts seriously!
Nicholas Barker Caldari Black Bands Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:06:00 - [34] Originally by: ShardowRhino As for those that leave a game over small changes,all i have to say is ,"who cares?". Generally those that leave a game because of a small change which is unlikely to affect 99% of the population in ,much less in a negative way, are leaving because they have chosen to take that as their "reason". They are looking for something small to cry about and attempt to make it look huge, at least big enough of a reason to justify leaving the game. What is ignored is the fact that 99.99% of those people are in fact leaving for other reason which have been going on for some time prior to the announcement they claim is "the last straw"for them. True story... ever thought that privateers was created because 0.0 became bogged down with pos warfare, it used to be about flying around in gangs looking for fights, and every week end getting together with 100 of your mates to go off to some bottlekneck system where 100 other people are waiting to have a fight with you, for the sole reason of having a laugh and not getting lagged to ***. Alot of people from that era will have used this as their last chance of having fun, ccp nerf it so what's the point in playing still if you're not enjoying it, so they leave. The truth is 700 players war dec'd over 70,000 players and had them moaning so much on the forums that ccp actually did something about it, un aware they you were all just crying like children because of what was really a very minor inconvenience that could have been solved with abit of planning and co-ordination between those 70,000 players. The thousand corps of carebear empire decend upon you, our whines will blott out the fun.* ------------------------------------- if i'm not posting about tactics or lag, don't take my posts seriously!
Drake Heartbreaker	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Ki An By the same token, why have wars at all if you aren't supposed to use them in high sec? I mean, that's the only level of security in which you really need to wardec anyone in order to wage war. Highsec wars are (now) working as intended. We have wars because wars are supposed to mean something. Wars are supposed to require thought, investment, planning - wars are supposed to be a serious affair. Wars these days are a joke, and virtually anyone in the game could start one. Highsec wars are broken.
Drake Heartbreaker	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Sorted I wont keep you posted. Debate, cry, rejoice - whatever. Just check your mail box and local before undocking - those war decs will still be handed out like candy - fingers crossed. Sorted Right, obviously this will have no impact on your operations and everything will be the same. That's why you raced to slam in those final wardecs before the patch went through. Because nothing changed.
Broken Star Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.24 21:42:00 - [37] Let the great money vacuum begin... I wonder what CONCORD will do with all that isk PA... If I where them, I would buy some gold plated spinners for all my pimped out police petrols. (Thanks Dax) Seriously, no one in game has the sort of money to keep up pre-patch wardecs, its been set at a level deemed unreachable following the change. Now, I may be off course, but the amount of isk spent, COULD have established you in 0.0 with guns, ammo and big boats... but instead the choice is made to throw it all away.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.24 22:02:00 - [38] Edited by: SiJira on 24/04/2007 21:58:45 Originally by: Josan Alfuano [ The fundamental problem with a public shared sandbox is that each person brings outside expectations to the sandbox, and many get frustrated when the rules they expected don't match up. I have never felt that CCP wanted "carebears" in the game. There is a BIG difference between someone who is primarily industrial, or primarily pve, or primarily trader, and a carebear. I've had primarily industrial toons, and every one of them could fit at least a piece of EW or use combat drones to help out in a pinch. Mission running toons can easily refit for pvp (even better, just have a second, disposable ship with a pvp setup ready to go in your hanger). Traders now have more skills to contend with than they once did, but still can easily acquire the ability to tackle. There is a place for those tho truly wish to avoid combat-- npc corps. That is why they are there. Of course that means zero access to endgame material, but that is the trade off for what comes closest to safety in this game. Those who want to do POS's, who want to have corp wallets and shared hangers and capital ships, have to contend with wardecs. I'm kind of with Kahrek's vent above. If you don't like the rules of the sandbox, then just keep moving along. You pay for access, but you also can stop paying. There is no "investment" because if you aren't having $15 (check local listings) worth of fun, then you can stop and lose nothing, other that the fear of being a target. The idea that CCP should pander to the lowest common denominator flies in the face of what they started out to achieve: a niche space game of empire-building and conquest. Eve isn't for everyone, that is why it is a niche game. Many will try, not as many will buy. That is why the whole "single server" concept has worked so well, because Eve does NOT have mass-market appeal. If Eve had 6 million subscribers, CCP couldn't do this. I agree that Privateers perhaps pushed the envelope too far, but they were far from the first. As long as Eve has been around, pvpers have been wardeccing industrial corps in Eve. Fact of life and intended function. It forces industrialists to not be carebears if they want the fun stuff. you do realize there is no more empire building and conquest with the way POS outpost and titans work right ? not to mention the way the map works - turn on the right options and you can find where a new alliance might be trying to set up base and DESTROY THEM - or ask them to pay ludicrous and large fees to keep you as a friend.
Portios Smith DNR Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.24 22:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Phoenix Lord Looking forward to the fun. You know, you guys could just come to 0.0 to find us instead of wasting money. We did! right around your space too, Results: 1. Everyone Safe spoted and cloaked as soon as we entered local 2. We brought 4 BS and we got 2 carriers cyno on top of us 3. We brought 4 hacks and we got guess what? 2 carriers cyno on our lap 4. We brought 4 T1 cruisers, we managed to kill a raven at a gate and were engaging a rokh on the same gate when a 50+ man gank fleet came looking for us. BSs, command ships, hacs, inties, dictors. vs 4 T1 cruisers PvP in 0.0 sucks becasue most people living in 0.0 suck. if you want to call hiding behind capital ships and PvP, then yea 0.0 has lots of PVP This sig was made for hijack - Timmeh I am getting tha nerf bat and the mods wont stay out of my sig :(
Lord Bleu The Xizor Cartel Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 00:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Phoenix Lord Looking forward to the fun. You know, you guys could just come to 0.0 to find us instead of wasting money. The last time I went to 0.0 in a Raven I got so drunk I fell asleep on a gate, awoke 2 hours later still sitting there alone and alive with 20+ missed calls on my mobile from a worried corp mate PVP 'Everywhere' 4tw >> The Xizor Cartel << >> Currently Recruiting Mature PVP'ers <<
Will Hunter The Dogs Danglies Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 00:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Roemy Schneider all that wasted money... sigh I have been doing 0.0 pvp for the last year in Vale, and only moved with my corporation to privateers over the last couple of weeks - in the last 2 weeks i have had more fun than the entire year in 0.0, whats more I have never camped the m4 station in Jita. Our gang was in the Saila mission running area last night, and we where getting local smack suggesting that we should go back to jita - this coming from Level 4 mission runners... ---------------------------------------------- If at first you don't succeed, give up - you tried once already. ----------------------------------------------
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 00:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Will Hunter I have been doing 0.0 pvp for the last year in Vale, and only moved with my corporation to privateers over the last couple of weeks - in the last 2 weeks i have had more fun than the entire year in 0.0 I hear this time and time and time again. Practically everyone who come to fly with us has said its one of the best times they have had in game. You cant obviously please everyone -Some have found the blobs coming for us a bit much. Some have been unlucky in their ship losses and loot from the ships they did kill and its been to much of a drain on their wallet. A few complained that their wernt enough targets . A few complained that we were to liberal in recruiting anyone who wanted to come have a fight. But nobody has ever come to me and said they regretted joining us. The elitest mentaility of 0.0 pvpers is kind of understandable. They come from a school where you worked your way up - then were 'allowed' into 0.0 by there corp or alliance when they were 'skilled' enough. 0.0 was some big scary unkown. Empire was old hat and for noobs - after all thats what it was like when they were there. To be then told, even by people who followed the same paths as them, and grew tired of 0.0 that in fact - its a load of old tosh and they enjoy the pvp 10x better in empire must be particuallay galling.
Randal McMurphy Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.04.25 01:55:00 - [43] I jest want teh say that I made this alt to go to jita moon 4 to steal teh PA lootz and you know what? All day waiting and I saw 1 PA raven, one PA cloaker (he cloaked too fast for me to get the ship type) and one PA thorax and they weren't at the station at the same time either. The one in the thorax got his ass handed to him too. Anyway my point is, I stayed the say and seen but only three of teh buggerers. The Jita joke is way overstated as I seen it. alt for sure, I seen it with me own eye.
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 03:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/04/2007 03:42:54 Originally by: Randal McMurphy I jest want teh say that I made this alt to go to jita moon 4 to steal teh PA lootz and you know what? All day waiting and I saw 1 PA raven, one PA cloaker (he cloaked too fast for me to get the ship type) and one PA thorax and they weren't at the station at the same time either. The one in the thorax got his ass handed to him too. Anyway my point is, I stayed the say and seen but only three of teh buggerers. The Jita joke is way overstated as I seen it. ROFL A lot of thieves made a lot of isk of me persoanly the Jita joke is badly overplayed yes, but to be fair some of our kills come from there The alliance as a unit dosent condemm.. or condone it. And thanks for being honest..... you bloody thief! SKUNK
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.25 05:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker We have wars because wars are supposed to mean something. Wars do mean something. They mean we can shoot each other in high sec. That's all they're supposed to mean. Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker Wars are supposed to require thought, investment, planning - wars are supposed to be a serious affair. Wars require thought in way of deciding which target would be most profitable to dec, or if you would be able to take down the annoying corp who smacked you, or if the target would give you fights or just hide in stations. Wars require investment in way of having to have sufficient currency to replace potentially lost ships and equipment. Wars require planning in way of tactical and strategic choices. Wars are not supposed to be all that serious though. It's a game, and we play for fun. War is fun in EvE. Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker Wars these days are a joke, and virtually anyone in the game could start one. Which is a good thing. If wars weren't open for anyone to declare, but reserved for the "elite", EvE wouldn't be a fun place to be. And if wars are a joke, why are you complaining? Get out there and laugh your ass off while you blow someone to smithereens. Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker Highsec wars are broken. Says who? Says you. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Amalas Huff Technologies Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 07:20:00 - [46] I'm a Privateer, have been so for around two weeks and it is the best time i've had in EVE. Having come from 0.0 I can say that all this hauler ganker name calling is so hypocritical seeing as most 0.0 alliances guard their territory with bubble camps and pop anything coming through. I have popped haulers, most privateers have, but I'll also fight outnumbered and give credit to those who pop me even when it's with a blob and I'll also honour 1vs1's. All the war targets I have spoken with after winning or losing have been great and enjoyed the fight (more so when they win!). It seems that those that cry about us are those sitting in 0.0, beating their chests and letting us know how they are the Uberest PvP'er in EVE. And as for all this "I'm in 0.0 come and fight me", my resonse "I'm in Empire, come and find me". It won't be hard, i'm in Jita, ganking your haulers.
Broken Star Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.25 12:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Amalas And as for all this "I'm in 0.0 come and fight me", my resonse "I'm in Empire, come and find me". It won't be hard, I'm in Jita, ganking your haulers. Quote of the Day right here people!
Harisdrop Gallente Vindicate and Deliverance	Posted - 2007.04.25 12:54:00 - [48] For one week we will have tons of players in NPC corps. Then the wash into player corps will happen. Therefore this is the single greatest thing that has happened to eve since conquerable stations have been introduced. Consider now that you wardec cost is not how many you have against others but how many also you have against you. War decing will stop unless there is a reason. 0.0 will populate. Empire will be npc boring safe. low sec might get populated.
Vasiliyan Black Straw Research	Posted - 2007.04.25 13:23:00 - [49] Question to all those people saying they have more fun as privateers: is that by any chance to do with your kill/death ratio? And the ability to buy and refit in stations supplied by the very people you're shooting at?
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2007.04.25 14:11:00 - [50] Originally by: GimmeeThat you loose *LOSE
Cougem Defile.	Posted - 2007.04.25 14:21:00 - [51] Edited by: Cougem on 25/04/2007 14:23:54 Don't know why people call these wardecs a waste of money. In 2-3 days I've made around 100mil (for myself, thats after splitting it between the gang etc , and I only fly BCs). If we made a loss on the decs we wouldn't be able to afford them. I left privs for 0.0 a few months back. It was awful. I hate 0.0. I'm never doing Pos warfare ever again.
Darkrogue Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.25 14:42:00 - [52] I would argue for the benefit of Privateers if they wanted to "fight" in empire without Blobs like they claim. Unfortunantly 98% of your kills are pure and simple ganks. So to bad so sad for you Gankateers.
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.04.25 14:52:00 - [53] Originally by: DiuxDium For most of the corps in Priv it was the last bastion of fun PvP. When the going gets tough lets head to Empire and wardec as many as we can? Please. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Direct Intent	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:34:00 - [54] I can kind of see the points of the Privateers, but I do have one request for you all: Make Le Skunk shut the heck up. His little thing about doing us a favor by bringing us adrenaline in Empire is CRAP. My experiences save one with Eve University have been flying around and finding NOTHING TO KILL, or worrying that my hauler's gonna be popped when I needed to acquire needed supplies before I decided to metagame like everyone else. Adrenaline? No, needless crap in my 15 USD of fun (onoz your argument). I've done scouted hauler runs, I've done suicidal hauler runs. However, there is generally a safe zone at some point in the run. Doing them for every jump everywhere is not what I consider a good time. Heck, maybe if the Privs didn't wardec everyone, there wouldn't be so many in noobcorps/trade alts? Just a thought. Also, IIRC, Le Skunk was the one going around saying that EUNI made the noobs mine veldspar as if they were slaves, and turned their gankadec against the corp into a battle of ideology. Anyone with two functioning brain cells could see he was pulling it out of his ass to justify ganking a noobcorp with proportionally few vets. It wouldn't have been so bad but for the slander ... Go ahead and dec people, just stop being apologetic and silence your apologists about it. You're in it for ganks and killmails. Fine. Works for me - EvE is fill of non-consentual PVP or so I've heard. Just stop trying to make excuses for your actions - ignore all of us 'whiny carebears.' Aside from your flamebacks, you do a pretty good job of it anyways ;)
hedfunk Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:35:00 - [55] undefined Originally by: Darkrogue I would argue for the benefit of Privateers if they wanted to "fight" in empire without Blobs like they claim. Unfortunantly 98% of your kills are pure and simple ganks. So to bad so sad for you Gankateers. How do you know, have you ever been in the privs...with either a main or an alt? Have you been to 98% of our kills? o.0 I really don't mind most insults that come our way, but the same old 'you only dec noob corps and industrial corps and camp 4-4 all day' Is really getting pretty damn old now.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:55:00 - [56] Yeah.. poor PrivaTears.. now they need to be creative and learn how to play the game to wardec everyone.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Originally by: Phoenix Lord And since when was war deccing people the only fun way to pvp? holy crap man. when some fool at ccp decided to create pos and cap ships. I see.. so its CCPs fault you guys cant handle a more complext system of PVP?
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:59:00 - [58] Originally by: hedfunk I really don't mind most insults that come our way, but the same old 'you only dec noob corps and industrial corps and camp 4-4 all day' Is really getting pretty damn old now. So was watching you guys gank noobs all day and camp 4-4.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.25 16:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Harisdrop For one week we will have tons of players in NPC corps. Then the wash into player corps will happen. Therefore this is the single greatest thing that has happened to eve since conquerable stations have been introduced. Consider now that you wardec cost is not how many you have against others but how many also you have against you. War decing will stop unless there is a reason. 0.0 will populate. Empire will be npc boring safe. low sec might get populated. we can only hope
Darkrogue Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.25 16:25:00 - [60] Originally by: hedfunk undefined Originally by: Darkrogue I would argue for the benefit of Privateers if they wanted to "fight" in empire without Blobs like they claim. Unfortunantly 98% of your kills are pure and simple ganks. So to bad so sad for you Gankateers. How do you know, have you ever been in the privs...with either a main or an alt? Have you been to 98% of our kills? o.0 I really don't mind most insults that come our way, but the same old 'you only dec noob corps and industrial corps and camp 4-4 all day' Is really getting pretty damn old now. Why yes I have been in privateers with an Alt, thanks for asking. Also have many friends in it. So stfu kthx.

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