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ROMOAS
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:59:00 -
[1]
I would like to see a possible addition to the game of being able to insurance ships outfitted.
what I am getting at is now you can insure a ship but it does not include the fitting of it after a player outfits the ship the player then can click insurance tap and select insure fittings.
and the coast can be determined by the present market value automatically,
if the player unfits a item the value would reset to the new fitting.
(after the refit player would get a pop up mesg stating that fact).but the coast would hold at the time of the market value.
I have heard and have had myself insure a ship and lost it when the payout come through it either covers or not cover the coast (most case not).
and the player has to refit the ship then not be able to afford the new insurance contract let alone the fittings.
the fittings insurance does not have to cover the total coast but I feel that it will be helpful to players as well help balance the market a bit and it being a option for the player to chose the fitting insurance it would be there choice to do so.
after all when you insure a car you pay extra to cover the options on it.
this is just something I wanted to put out there please post a replay I would like to see others insight on this.
Thank You.
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Pastor Blue
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:19:00 -
[2]
I couldn't agree more
EVE has been running long enough now and been receiving numerous updates and insurance is something that is in dire need of sorting out. I have put thought to this myself and this is a straight forward solution ... to get insurance that gives a "dynamic" insurance premium depending on what is fitted and what ship etc, and maybe even which system you're in at the time of the quote.
I had a Nightmare faction BS which cost me a billion to buy - plus a further 500m to equip and then the standard insurance on top - and when it went pop what did I get ... something in the region of 125m which means I made an instant loss of over 1.3 billion iskies . It's a very deflating experience, as many of us know too well ...
This matter needs dev attention with some immediacy because this aspect of EVE is frankly obsolete - we can insure our clones so why can't we properly insure our ships in the same way - you wouldn't insure a ú10,000 car if you knew it was only going to pay you back ú1500  ? It doesn't make sense, is massively costly when ships go bang and I hope CCP recognises a real need here to make an important fix.
Devs, please can you comment on this? Good post Romoas
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:07:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: ROMOAS
and the cost can be determined by the present market value automatically,
if the player unfits a item the value would reset to the new fitting.
Market value is determined by the current buy and sell orders. A large corp or small alliance can manipulate this quite easily in a region with little market activity.
They can put up a bunch of T1 items at 100,000 times their actually value, fit a ship with it, blow it up and get an insurance payout many times the actual worth. If they were to take the average market value of all regions it would work better but still be open to abuse.
The only safe way is mineral value and that is on most modules to low to make a meaningful payout.
Other than the gameplay aspects, you're supposed to lose stuff in Eve. Dying should hurt, not be an inconvenience.
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Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: ViolenTUK on 24/04/2007 11:16:12
I beleive that you should be able to insure faction ships and fully outfitted ships the same manner that you can insure your home and its contents. The insurance could be managed so abuse would be difficult if a global base price was used. The insurance wouldnt have to give a complete return but enough to help compensate for a loss. The poor managment of insurance may lead to players buying isk when they need to refit their ship which is somthing we all want to avoid.
There are literaly thousands of ways you could look at insuring ships and outfittings so a method needs to be found.
Summary:
Insurance for faction ships needs to cover the cost of the ship (baseprice).
Isurance needs to be extended to meet outfitting.
Insurance needs to cover the FULL amount for tech II ships.
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Geddiz
Foundation of Extropian Independents
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:32:00 -
[5]
I think the insurance for TII ships is a good idea, but not for modules; if every little thing is insurable, there'd be no real fear about being popped, making it too easy takes the fun out of the game.
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:44:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kakita Jalaan on 24/04/2007 11:43:36
I'll try to formulate this as carefully as possible. The following problems crop up when considering your suggestion.
A) Gameplay/design problem:
Fully insured everything is a bad idea for Eve, since then losing ships carries a much smaller penalty (insurance fees are only a third of the actual cost for platinum). Eve is designed the way it is (losing ships = costly) to make sure people care for their stuff and the game does not devolve into a "no-one-cares" hackfest that is ultimately boring. For example, I had that feeling after playing a month of WoW, where death carries basically no penalty apart from a little time (5 minutes or so). Long term goals are weakened, since the result of the next pvp skirmish will have a very little impact on longer term strategies, since everybody can replace their losses very quickly.
Also, money from the insurance is created out of thin air and injected directly into the economy, which promotes inflation, since all the money that is currently taken out of the economy via uninsured ship losses would remain where it is.
B) Technical problems:
How to determine the market value of an item without at the same time opening the door for abuse? For non faction items, as somebody pointed out, by placing and buying up market orders, somebody could drive the market value of an item down, then insure his ship full of said items, then drive the value up and destroy his ship. Same goes for contracts and thus faction ships/modules.
The effective base price of items reflect the mineral ingredients that have to be spent to build the item, or (in the case of non-manufacturable faction items) the minerals that could be extracted via reprocessing the item. If an item has a higher real value due to high demand or low supply, this can't be evaluated objectively (see first point). The item price may also change due to external factors, like a patch drastically changing the usefulness of a module (like damage controls or named cap power relays).
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:02:00 -
[7]
I never take my home and bring it in a warzone...
I even wonder if the insurance system in eve isn't loosing money everyday!
You buy a car, you go in some warred country in africa, your car gets blown, let's say you survive, which insurance will pay you anything for your car? You went into a warzone!
Just to say you can't compare...
Now, about the actual insurance system. You blow a big ship, it allows you with the insurance payout to buy a bit smaller one and fit it. It isn't that bad!
But, there are few problems :
-Tech II ships : the item database value (which is close to insurance payout) is ridiculous compared to market, there is no way for any T2 module to get down in price to this. It happens to T1 stuff to reach it, but T2 won't. The insurance is useless. Maybe the price of T2 ships in the item database should be rased and then the insurances recalculated.
-Faction ships : It's real hard to tell what is their price, only few bought and few sold and market (or contract) average prices aren't reliable at all.
Some payout guidelines could be like "faction frigate", "faction cruiser", "faction battleship", each class with its price. Some are much more expensive than others, but at least there would be something. But lets make something that won't end up in people blowing faction ships for the insurance! Players should still be encouraged to take care of their faction ships.
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Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs.
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Marduk Starkiller
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:15:00 -
[8]
The problem with T2 ships isn't their price in the database, its the offer/demand discrepancy. If they would increase the insurance payout i'm certain that the demand will increase too because people won't receive such a big hit to their wallet when they lose the ship. Increase in demand, offer is the same.... big price increase, industrialists are happy, and the pvpers are back to square one.
As for faction ships... leave them as they are. They are a luxury and stuff like that comes at a high cost, as it should.
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.04.24 16:20:00 -
[9]
Faction ships should be costly to insure and a method for a base price should be developed.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 18:15:00 -
[10]
I'm gonna say no thanks to this one. As stated higher up, having faction gear and ships is cool because it's a risk. When somebody jumps you in a nightmare, you know they're "hardcore" because A: they have this monster ship and B: they're risking it to gank you and if they lose, they only get 5-7 percent of its worth. They mean business.
I do think that T2 ships should be insured for closer to their worth but I can't see any reason that fittings should be insurable. I won't go into the game mechanics because somebody else already has. But more to the point, there aren't enough isk sinks right now as it is. This change would lead to more injections of isk and less loss. If you never lose anything, it never has value. So yeah. I kinda like the insurance setup. It's good stuff.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Mundem Pashdale
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.06.19 16:27:00 -
[11]
I'd like to see T2 insurance updated; when I fit faction gear though I recognize Iam taking a risk. But getting a cruiser payout for a T2 ship sucks sometimes
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Lagar
Caldari
Core Domination
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Posted - 2007.06.19 18:22:00 -
[12]
the curent insurance system is made by design to insure exlusivly the ship based by the estimate of it's mineral cost, not the market value of it.
so that means that even if you make the modules insureable to you'd only get the extra isk for the minerals thus making looted versions not an issue.
no insurance function should ever give you back an entire ship + modules.. just the credits to let you buy a new one.
dont be to lazy
further more the reason that all T2 ships insurance is less than the cost is yet again beceause that the insurance is based on mineral cost not the market value.
this is by design since if it was dictated by market value it could be exploited on so many levels by those with the BPO, a BPC or just the ship.
and you are never suposed of being fully insured for a T2 ship ever.. and dont try to make that happen cause it will never ever happen
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Berexia Cannin
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Posted - 2007.10.10 13:55:00 -
[13]
i vote yes on insurance for mods
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Nicho Void
Gallente
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.10.10 14:15:00 -
[14]
I think it's a bad idea. As people have already stated, mod insurance removes the risk of loss, which is the overarching factor of Eve.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Union Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.13 05:04:00 -
[15]
insurance can be exploited for profit. It was in the past. That's why it's the way it is now. It will be hard to push for a change to insurance I'm afraid, though i would love it if it were do-able in an unexploitable manner.
--
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Tralala |
CFC Fodder
Gallente
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 07:51:00 -
[16]
If you can't risk your ship loss, why are you flying the darned thing? And how does this keep faction/officer items balanced?
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Secondus Dawkins
Fade to Black Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:42:00 -
[17]
I like insurance the way it is now. Heck, I think it is probably too generous. You get payouts after piracy! You get payouts in lowsec and 0.0! What company in it's right mind would insure combat ships that get lost at a crazy rate! Right now, insurance is good for newbs and mid-level characters. This way they can upgrade to fancier ships and expand their enjoyment of the game without the risk of being knocked back to square one. Once you start making real money, it's time to suck it up. Mods can be had at a very low price if you want them. Fancy named, T2 and faction mods cost more. Don't buy them if you can't afford them. I go PvPing in all T2 ships all the time. Could you imagine me going up to an insurance company and saying
"I have bought the most expensive thing on the market, now I'm gonna go shoot at a lot of people who don't like me, and they're going to shoot back. If I loose my fancy toy, will you give me some money back?"
Could you even imagine what the premiums would be like?For a bil isk total ship with fittings I'd charge 500mil isk/day for 100% coverage. Any less would be insane.
Beside the logic of the thing, T2 and faction stuff are supposed elite (clearly faction more than T2, and officer more than faction). If the loss you incurred was not staggering, than they would cease to be as impressive. I'm looking at putting together my first faction fitted ship, and I know it'll hurt if I lose it, but that's what makes the adrenaline pump.
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Sinil
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Posted - 2008.01.26 09:24:00 -
[18]
I also think insurance is fine as it is now. As I remember of Ultima Online, it's the death of PVP to insurance all your stuff.
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Xindi Kraid
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.26 09:51:00 -
[19]
The way to solve the problem of insurance discrepancies with over/underpriced modules would to have insurance be based off of what you paid for the item as opposed to its worth
--Bird of Prey: Forum God
1. War
2.
3. Profit |
Aeons Plus
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.27 03:48:00 -
[20]
Insuring the mods on your ship, what a great idea! As it stands now I never buy insurance. My ISK is in my mods. Ships are cheap and with no insurance I still get 1/2 of an insured ship for free. Is there any way to have insurance cost according to the cost of a ship and mods along with the risk of the pilot? Less risk less cost.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.01.27 03:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
The way to solve the problem of insurance discrepancies with over/underpriced modules would to have insurance be based off of what you paid for the item as opposed to its worth
"Hey, corpie, do me a favor. Take these mods, and come with me to a deserted station, then sell them back to me for 100x their value. Then send me the isk back, and pop my ship and mods for me. We'll double our money!"
Anyways, I disagree with this wholeheartedly. You want to field the expensive crap, you take the risk for it.
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