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Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.12 23:26:02 - [1] - Quote Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic.
Dark Lord Trump Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 309	Posted - 2017.02.12 23:37:48 - [2] - Quote It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.12 23:43:42 - [3] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I get the force projection stuff....but not logistics. Ships should have a travel mode (disable combat capabilities etc...). Either way, it just becomes another irritant for no good reason. I suppose if you run a ton of jump alts, it probably doesn't matter. As for some of us who enjoy logistics and use a single toon, it's just stupid. Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. They should work on other methods of countering force projection rather than just a wide brush stroke to everyone using jump ships. I would think CCP was a bit more capable and creative.
Scipio Artelius Savage Moon Society 46877	Posted - 2017.02.12 23:59:17 - [4] - Quote Jump Freighters, Bowheads and industrials receive a 90% reduction in the effects of jump fatigue. You can jump about every 15 minutes with no fatigue. Of course, Bowheads can't jump on their own and need a bridge, however if you want to use a Carrier to move fitted ships, the better approach is to make a courier contract with them and take them in a Jump Freighter, or the best approach being to repackage, sacrifice the rigs, courier them in a jump freighter and then refit at the destination. CCP adjusted their original jump fatigue plans when it was introduced in 2014, specifically so it didn't hurt logistics too much.
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 1208	Posted - 2017.02.13 00:19:20 - [5] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. It was introduced for very good reasons. Previously, you could move a supercapital fleet across the galaxy as fast as you could get the cyno chain in place. This was A Bad Thing(tm) for any number of valid reasons. Jump Fatigue is an annoying mechanic, but then, so is having a supercap blob dopped on top of you every time you undocked a capital. FYI: Black Ops battleships get a fatigue reduction, as do cloaky ships using a BLOPS bridge. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji. 1980	Posted - 2017.02.13 00:26:03 - [6] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I get the force projection stuff....but not logistics. Ships should have a travel mode (disable combat capabilities etc...). Either way, it just becomes another irritant for no good reason. I suppose if you run a ton of jump alts, it probably doesn't matter. As for some of us who enjoy logistics and use a single toon, it's just stupid. Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. They should work on other methods of countering force projection rather than just a wide brush stroke to everyone using jump ships. I would think CCP was a bit more capable and creative. And how do you plan on enforcing this without people just using logistics ships to travel back and forth to avoid the jump fatigue timers? There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1490	Posted - 2017.02.13 00:27:51 - [7] - Quote Yeah, it took me pretty much the whole sunday last week to move an old and rusty carrier home. That's two characters not making ISK or doing something fun for a day. In hindsight, it would have probably been better to just firesell it, fighters and all and afk rat on those two characters instead. Jump fatigue, although I understand why it has been implemented is just tedious. One of those hastily implemented hotfixes for problems they could have seen coming for years. Ptraci wrote: And how do you plan on enforcing this without people just using logistics ships to travel back and forth to avoid the jump fatigue timers? There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region. Especially now with Keepstars everywhere. If they have a stock of caps in the destination area anyway, they can just fly over there in quick aligning, warp speed rigged interceptors. That doesn't take much longer than a pre-Phoebe cap move op either.
Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.13 02:18:32 - [8] - Quote Mephiztopheleze wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. It was introduced for very good reasons. Previously, you could move a supercapital fleet across the galaxy as fast as you could get the cyno chain in place. This was A Bad Thing(tm) for any number of valid reasons. Jump Fatigue is an annoying mechanic, but then, so is having a supercap blob dopped on top of you every time you undocked a capital. FYI: Black Ops battleships get a fatigue reduction, as do cloaky ships using a BLOPS bridge. Totally good with some kind of jump attrition for combat... just leave the logistics alone... it's already painful, plentifully painful, enough.
Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.13 02:20:33 - [9] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Yeah, it took me pretty much the whole sunday last week to move an old and rusty carrier home. That's two characters not making ISK or doing something fun for a day. In hindsight, it would have probably been better to just firesell it, fighters and all and afk rat on those two characters instead. Jump fatigue, although I understand why it has been implemented is just tedious. One of those hastily implemented hotfixes for problems they could have seen coming for years. Ptraci wrote: And how do you plan on enforcing this without people just using logistics ships to travel back and forth to avoid the jump fatigue timers? There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region. Especially now with Keepstars everywhere. If they have a stock of caps in the destination area anyway, they can just fly over there in quick aligning, warp speed rigged interceptors. That doesn't take much longer than a pre-Phoebe cap move op either. Absolutely agree... hasty, stupid fix. They should figure out ways to deal with combat force projection through tactics like cyno disruption rather than some puerile mechanic. Jump "Fatigue" just needs to be scrapped and more creative solutions need to come forth.
Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.13 02:24:38 - [10] - Quote Ptraci wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I get the force projection stuff....but not logistics. Ships should have a travel mode (disable combat capabilities etc...). Either way, it just becomes another irritant for no good reason. I suppose if you run a ton of jump alts, it probably doesn't matter. As for some of us who enjoy logistics and use a single toon, it's just stupid. Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. They should work on other methods of countering force projection rather than just a wide brush stroke to everyone using jump ships. I would think CCP was a bit more capable and creative. And how do you plan on enforcing this without people just using logistics ships to travel back and forth to avoid the jump fatigue timers? There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region. Especially now with Keepstars everywhere. I thought the issue was with force projection? Having logistics resupply is a good thing for keeping the battle going. To your point though, things like cyno disruptors (causes jump ships to end up in random systems)... Just a little brainstorming should produce some much better alternatives to jump fatigue which seems like that took no thought at all.

Cade Windstalker 773	Posted - 2017.02.13 03:04:55 - [11] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. The penalties are significantly reduced for Jump Freighters and Rorquals, so if you're talking Logistics as in moving things then that's already pretty much factored in. If you're saying you want to move your Carrier from Period Basis to Branch in an hour then... that's the point? That you can't do that anymore?
Zen Dijun xoth inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.14 00:47:22 - [12] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. The penalties are significantly reduced for Jump Freighters and Rorquals, so if you're talking Logistics as in moving things then that's already pretty much factored in. If you're saying you want to move your Carrier from Period Basis to Branch in an hour then... that's the point? That you can't do that anymore? Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!".
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5925	Posted - 2017.02.14 01:17:18 - [13] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. The penalties are significantly reduced for Jump Freighters and Rorquals, so if you're talking Logistics as in moving things then that's already pretty much factored in. If you're saying you want to move your Carrier from Period Basis to Branch in an hour then... that's the point? That you can't do that anymore? Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". I'm not getting it. How much jumping are you doing? All you have to do is wait until your fatigue is below 10 minutes and then jump again. You want to avoid when fatigue become multiplicative...so wait a few minutes between jumps. Unless you are trying to make lots of jumps super quickly it isn't that much of an extra burden. And no it is not a mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. It was to put an end to jump fatigue. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais Mad Scientists Consortium 43	Posted - 2017.02.14 03:43:39 - [14] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". You keep saying disables combat. How do you plan to do that? How does the carrier turn back to combat mode? And what stops people abusing the hell out of that? How do you use them for combat effectively? Theres no reason to jump in a ship to a battle that cant fight. You want an easy-pass to capital ownership. What you want for your own convenience, got abused to hell and like many people stated, is what led to mass-supercaps.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3095	Posted - 2017.02.14 04:06:13 - [15] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. The penalties are significantly reduced for Jump Freighters and Rorquals, so if you're talking Logistics as in moving things then that's already pretty much factored in. If you're saying you want to move your Carrier from Period Basis to Branch in an hour then... that's the point? That you can't do that anymore? Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". Disable combat for how long? What exactly is disabled? How does it come back to normal? Is the ship affected or the character? Someone proved caps unlimited moves were kinda broken when they made the equivalent of a 99 system jump trip in 7 minutes using a carrier. To compare to other things, the same trip in a super taxi inty with warp speed implants to be sure it was as fast as possible took ~55 minutes. If you don't think that was broken, there is no way you will ever understand why jump fatigue was implemented.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 678	Posted - 2017.02.14 04:26:37 - [16] - Quote OP took a break and came back an EvE expert, bravo! Just Add Water
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 1208	Posted - 2017.02.14 04:28:25 - [17] - Quote Ptraci wrote: There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region. Especially now with Keepstars everywhere. Setting up a Dreadbomb cache is one thing. Financing multiple caches of supercaps is something else entirely. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Atomic Virulent Dark Matter Industrial 182	Posted - 2017.02.14 05:44:56 - [18] - Quote Whew! We've been waiting for your input on this... OK GUYS, let's revert back to before 'Phoebe'... No, kid... The 'broken mechanic' was the ability to bring a fleet of hundreds of Titans, Super Carriers and Not-So-Super Carriers across the entirety of New Eden (ie. Cobalt Edge to Period Basis) in under 10 minutes to hotdrop a single ratting carrier just because.
Commander Spurty 1662	Posted - 2017.02.14 12:39:25 - [19] - Quote I'd sign up for it [fatigue] being removed if: - Contents of ship is locked. You can not access it for 5~7 days after last jump. - Ship and contents explodes if it undocked or attempted to use an offensive / defensive module for 5~7 days after last jump. - POD pilot is free to leave ship and contents and go do something else for 5~7 days after last jump. Anything else = you have no idea how this will be abused at all and you have no business suggesting changes. There are good ships, And wood ships, And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18368	Posted - 2017.02.14 13:41:05 - [20] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I get the force projection stuff....but not logistics. Ships should have a travel mode (disable combat capabilities etc...). Either way, it just becomes another irritant for no good reason. I suppose if you run a ton of jump alts, it probably doesn't matter. As for some of us who enjoy logistics and use a single toon, it's just stupid. Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. They should work on other methods of countering force projection rather than just a wide brush stroke to everyone using jump ships. I would think CCP was a bit more capable and creative. Force projection IS logistics. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18368	Posted - 2017.02.14 13:46:45 - [21] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Ptraci wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: It's there so PL can't jump across the map in 15 minutes and drop on you every time you so much as think about capitals. All industrial ships have a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled anyway. I get the force projection stuff....but not logistics. Ships should have a travel mode (disable combat capabilities etc...). Either way, it just becomes another irritant for no good reason. I suppose if you run a ton of jump alts, it probably doesn't matter. As for some of us who enjoy logistics and use a single toon, it's just stupid. Throwing logistics a bone of 90% reduction is better than a poke in the eye, but it's just poorly thought out mechanic and it feels made up for no good reason. They should work on other methods of countering force projection rather than just a wide brush stroke to everyone using jump ships. I would think CCP was a bit more capable and creative. And how do you plan on enforcing this without people just using logistics ships to travel back and forth to avoid the jump fatigue timers? There are alliances and organizations rich enough to keep a stock of capital ships on call in pretty much every region. Especially now with Keepstars everywhere. I thought the issue was with force projection? Having logistics resupply is a good thing for keeping the battle going. To your point though, things like cyno disruptors (causes jump ships to end up in random systems)... Just a little brainstorming should produce some much better alternatives to jump fatigue which seems like that took no thought at all. If all you're looking for is a way to move your subcaps, the rorquals have a nice fleet hanger and benefit from the 90% fatigue reduction. Your proposal would make carriers fine for moving ships but not very useful for actually fighting with. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Wolfgang Jannesen The Evesploratory Society 32	Posted - 2017.02.14 13:48:32 - [22] - Quote 'Please let my capitals haul wherever within a literal minute' is not a convincing argument.
Cade Windstalker 777	Posted - 2017.02.14 14:23:26 - [23] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". And if you could do this then we'd be immediately back to the days of someone getting tackle in Delve and a cap fleet from the Drone Lands hitting grid 5 minutes later. The entire point here is to make it difficult for people to move around and project force. I'm sorry you don't like it and feel it's unfair, but it's been quite good for the game.
radkid10 Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 46	Posted - 2017.02.14 16:40:35 - [24] - Quote I think it's funny how everybody thinks pandemic Legion can afford it should ton of keep Stars they cost as much as 30 Titans and that's without a fit
Nicolai Serkanner Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 610	Posted - 2017.02.14 22:40:31 - [25] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. Thank you very much for bringing this up. Because there hasn't been any discussion about the subject since you have left. But, now you have returned, we can finally debate these issues.
Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.15 01:39:32 - [26] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". And if you could do this then we'd be immediately back to the days of someone getting tackle in Delve and a cap fleet from the Drone Lands hitting grid 5 minutes later. The entire point here is to make it difficult for people to move around and project force. I'm sorry you don't like it and feel it's unfair, but it's been quite good for the game. I might add that since the penalty works against the player, it's not hard to work around by using multiple ALTS. I am sure large alliances simply train multiple alts to take over the jump by passing the ship. Still a nice bit of force projection or did you honestly think they were that stupid? Maybe it's a good way for CCP to up subscriptions? Eh? ;)
Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.15 01:40:25 - [27] - Quote Nicolai Serkanner wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. Thank you very much for bringing this up. Because there hasn't been any discussion about the subject since you have left. But, now you have returned, we can finally debate these issues. Don't you have something better to do? Apparently, not. ; )
Cade Windstalker 782	Posted - 2017.02.15 01:56:47 - [28] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: I might add that since the penalty works against the player, it's not hard to work around by using multiple ALTS. I am sure large alliances simply train multiple alts to take over the jump by passing the ship. Still a nice bit of force projection or did you honestly think they were that stupid? Maybe it's a good way for CCP to up subscriptions? Eh? ;) Doesn't happen, and this has been demonstrably proven. The problem with this little theory is that it requires you to have very expensive alts (Super and Cap pilots aren't cheap) scattered within a few jumps of everywhere you might reasonably want to put caps, and it still won't let you get them back from a jump chain you basically burned out your timer making since the pilots will have to make at least a few jumps to get to the fight and then try to jump all the way back. So no, this doesn't work any more than the "Oh they can just put caches of ships everywhere" idea works, and for more or less the same reason. Too expensive to be practical. Doesn't actually get around the problem as well as you think. No place to keep them because hostile 0.0 space is not good about housing enemy pilots.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 682	Posted - 2017.02.15 03:41:04 - [29] - Quote Zen Dijun wrote: Nicolai Serkanner wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. Thank you very much for bringing this up. Because there hasn't been any discussion about the subject since you have left. But, now you have returned, we can finally debate these issues. Don't you have something better to do? Apparently, not. ; ) pot calling kettle black, lel. just play the damn game and stop crying! Just Add Water
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 3101	Posted - 2017.02.15 15:55:00 - [30] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: I'd sign up for it [fatigue] being removed if: - Contents of ship is locked. You can not access it for 5~7 days after last jump. - Ship and contents explodes if it undocked or attempted to use an offensive / defensive module for 5~7 days after last jump. - POD pilot is free to leave ship and contents and go do something else for 5~7 days after last jump. Anything else = you have no idea how this will be abused at all and you have no business suggesting changes. Repackage then unpack the ship and it's as good as new with no penalty. That's why the penalty was put on the pilots and not the ships. On the other end, I'd like it if someone would explain to me why you would repackage a cap now. I'm gonna guess it involve storage space in POS...

Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.16 00:26:34 - [31] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. The penalties are significantly reduced for Jump Freighters and Rorquals, so if you're talking Logistics as in moving things then that's already pretty much factored in. If you're saying you want to move your Carrier from Period Basis to Branch in an hour then... that's the point? That you can't do that anymore? Actually, my point is that jump fatigue is a stupid mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Putting a carrier in travel mode (disables combat) should allow me to use it for logistics without using it for combat. There should be better ways to deal with force projection than some stupid excuse for "Your pilot got dizzy... needs to take a break!". I'm not getting it. How much jumping are you doing? All you have to do is wait until your fatigue is below 10 minutes and then jump again. You want to avoid when fatigue become multiplicative...so wait a few minutes between jumps. Unless you are trying to make lots of jumps super quickly it isn't that much of an extra burden. And no it is not a mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. It was to put an end to power projection. Back in the day, I jumped LOTS... doing logistics for null sec. Now a days, as little as possible. You used to be able to load a JF and jump from Solitude to Feyth in a matter of minutes with all the cynos in place. Waiting around uselessly for minutes, hours etc... all on account of some dumb timer to expire? How is my traveling with my jump drive force projection in a jump freighter? There are lots of ways to shut down force projection without some stupid excuse of "Your pilot is dizzy from jumping.... " As for force projection, if I train two cap pilots... can't I just pass the ship between and still accomplish force projection?
Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.16 00:30:28 - [32] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: I might add that since the penalty works against the player, it's not hard to work around by using multiple ALTS. I am sure large alliances simply train multiple alts to take over the jump by passing the ship. Still a nice bit of force projection or did you honestly think they were that stupid? Maybe it's a good way for CCP to up subscriptions? Eh? ;) Doesn't happen, and this has been demonstrably proven. The problem with this little theory is that it requires you to have very expensive alts (Super and Cap pilots aren't cheap) scattered within a few jumps of everywhere you might reasonably want to put caps, and it still won't let you get them back from a jump chain you basically burned out your timer making since the pilots will have to make at least a few jumps to get to the fight and then try to jump all the way back. So no, this doesn't work any more than the "Oh they can just put caches of ships everywhere" idea works, and for more or less the same reason. Too expensive to be practical. Doesn't actually get around the problem as well as you think. No place to keep them because hostile 0.0 space is not good about housing enemy pilots. Maybe not on a mass scale... but take small skirmishes where you return to base after a day of hot dropping. You pull up a fresh pilot for the next day etc.... You'd be surprised how easy it is to have a hand full of cap pilots. What they need to do is counter-tactic to jumping (cyno distortion or some ability to cause your ship to complete the jump but show up without any shields or even damaged, chance based of course). Jump fatigue look and feels made up.
Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.16 00:59:37 - [33] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: I'd sign up for it [fatigue] being removed if: - Contents of ship is locked. You can not access it for 5~7 days after last jump. - Ship and contents explodes if it undocked or attempted to use an offensive / defensive module for 5~7 days after last jump. - POD pilot is free to leave ship and contents and go do something else for 5~7 days after last jump. Anything else = you have no idea how this will be abused at all and you have no business suggesting changes. Repackage then unpack the ship and it's as good as new with no penalty. That's why the penalty was put on the pilots and not the ships. On the other end, I'd like it if someone would explain to me why you would repackage a cap now. I'm gonna guess it involve storage space in POS... Wouldn't that be easily fixed by not allowing the ship to be sold/repackaged/messed with until the timer dropped? Doesn't sound that difficult ;)
Zen Dijun Xoth Inc 31	Posted - 2017.02.16 01:01:16 - [34] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Nicolai Serkanner wrote: Zen Dijun wrote: Been a while since I've played. That jump fatigue seems like another broken mechanic for the sake of a mechanic. Please tell me it's going away for logistics? Please? Transfer the penalties to the combat ships or something, but that is an awful game mechanic. Thank you very much for bringing this up. Because there hasn't been any discussion about the subject since you have left. But, now you have returned, we can finally debate these issues. Don't you have something better to do? Apparently, not. ; ) pot calling kettle black, lel. just play the damn game and stop crying! Trying to play sir, trying. Hard to do when stupid mechanics mess things up. Thank you for the advice though to "stop crying" ;)


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