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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Bigby
angels of darkness LTD Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:28:00 -
[31]
Oh something else, If Iceland becomes a member state of the EU (part in bold):
Quote:
Customs and Taxation
The European Union is a customs union. This means that Member States have removed customs barriers between themselves and introduced a common customs policy towards other countries. Customs duties are, therefore, prohibited between Member States. On the other hand, as Article 90 of the EC Treaty provides, the states are free to tax as long as they do not discriminate towards other Member States. Therefore, Member State A will be able to tax cars at a rate that is twice as high as in Member State B, provided that it taxes all cars equally û imported as well as those produced domestically.
Sure, cos that stops iTunes doesn't it
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:29:00 -
[32]
1.00 British pounds sterling = 1.47 Euros
1.00 US dollars = 0.74 Euros 1.00 Euros = 1.36 US dollars
Subscription cost
1-month-plan Ç 14.95
Now taking into account that we are charged TAX at 17.5% we must deduct this from the charges before we begin.
Ç 14.95 - 17.5% = Ç 12.73
Convert that to Dollars
Ç 12.73 * 1.36 = $ 17.31
The US are actually charged $ 14.95 when they should be charged (if you accept the statement that we are paying more because of TAX) $ 17.31.
However this would also put the price of EVE far above any other MMO for anyone paying in USD.
If you then take what CCP charge in USD and convert that to Euro's, then add in 17.5%.
$14.95 * 0.74 + 17.5% = Ç 13.41
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DaRuLe
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:40:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bigby
Sure, cos that stops iTunes doesn't it
NNTP ftw \o/
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Dezz'mond
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dezz''mond on 26/04/2007 13:41:42
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you live in Europe you pay in Çuro, which is higher because of the VAT tax. If you live outside Europe you pay in USD, where they don't have VAT. If you are billed in the wrong currency please submit a petition, but keep in mind that we won't change billing from EUR to USD if you live in Europe.
VaT is 17.5% not 30% all you've really done is just changed the symbol infront of the figure giving us a worse deal in europe than people in the US get. If you were really just charging VaT Then you would actually work it out to the correct figure.
I'm not sure, but isnt it against some trade rule for one company to charge two different ammounts for the same product when no delivery or change of service is involved.
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Blackout
Minmatar Cash Money Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.26 14:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you live in Europe you pay in Çuro, which is higher because of the VAT tax. If you live outside Europe you pay in USD, where they don't have VAT. If you are billed in the wrong currency please submit a petition, but keep in mind that we won't change billing from EUR to USD if you live in Europe.
Is that Europe or the EU?
If I supposedly relocated to Norway would I still pay that VAT?
-Perfer at obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim. |
Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.26 14:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 26/04/2007 14:40:38 hey hey
every month without fail I pay 2 different prices for my subscription.
The first account normally charges around ú6 - ú10 + ú1 for an "overseas transaction" The second account will come out a few days later and will be around. ú10 - ú12
This Months Charges EVE-Online Subscription IS 14.95 <--- Icelandic Kronur XR 1.92159ú7.78 + ú1 = ú8.98
EVE-Online Subscription EUROS 14.95 <--- Euro XR 1.42653ú10.48 + ú1 = 11.48
Im paying ú14.95 for both accounts in local currency Its my bank that adds the ú1 overseas transaction charge
IF I was actually charged in USD like my account details state : 14.95 USD = 7.51032 GBP <-- Taken from XE.com.
I guess the billing system uses hamsters too :)
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Jelek Coro
Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.26 14:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot 1.00 British pounds sterling = 1.47 Euros
1.00 US dollars = 0.74 Euros 1.00 Euros = 1.36 US dollars
Subscription cost
1-month-plan Ç 14.95
Now taking into account that we are charged TAX at 17.5% we must deduct this from the charges before we begin.
Ç 14.95 - 17.5% = Ç 12.73
Convert that to Dollars
Ç 12.73 * 1.36 = $ 17.31
The US are actually charged $ 14.95 when they should be charged (if you accept the statement that we are paying more because of TAX) $ 17.31.
However this would also put the price of EVE far above any other MMO for anyone paying in USD.
If you then take what CCP charge in USD and convert that to Euro's, then add in 17.5%.
$14.95 * 0.74 + 17.5% = Ç 13.41
Now use the FX rate from 3 years ago....
FX rates change.
Deal with it.
Sometimes things are cheap, sometimes they are expensive in comparison.
There is absolutely no reason for people to cry a river about it....
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 14:53:00 -
[38]
Some misconceptions here, US people dont have to pay less, they pay the same they always did. Its not correct to say 15Ç are more than 15$ so EU people have to pay more, simple example:
Exchange rate is 1:1:
U.S. Dude earns 1500$ a weak and has to pay 1% of his income to ccp. A burger costs 1$. EU Dude earns 1500Ç a weak and has to pay 1% of his income to ccp. A burger costs 1Ç.
Now exchange rates screw up and its 1:1.3:
U.S. Dude still earns 1500$ and still pays 1% of his income to ccp. And a burger will still cost 1$(unless they buy parts of it from the EU which i dont assume). Likewise the EU dude will still earn 1500Ç and still have to pay 1% while his burger will also stay at 1Ç.
So relatively to his income the U.S. dude will pay the same as the EU dude. Its even the other way around, if your local currency is weak anything you import gets more expensive. Stuff like bananas, cars or gasoline. So while he still pays 1% of his income for the game, at the same time he has to pay more for many things of his daily life, increasing % of his available money the subscription will take up.
That being said EU people dont have to pay VAT for either the subscription or GTCs. Ccp however [b]has[/] to raise the VAT for everything they sell inside the EU, because its their duty as a company. If ccp sell GTCs outside of the EU they dont have to raise the (EU)VAT, and if you order a GTC from outside the EU you dont have to pay VAT either because its usually below value you have to declare at customs.
If you are unsure about any of this you can also just contact your CC company like i did, they know everything about "buying stuff in foreign countries".
P.S. The only people who can pay less are those receiving their income in a currency thats has a positve relation to the dollar, and buy GTCs in $.
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Alyth
Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.26 14:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 26/04/2007 12:53:19
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
Originally by: Nicholas Barker i think you pay the same regardless of the symbol next to the ammount.
ding ding ding, bingo
Wrong for UK players.
Rough conversions...
Paying in Euro's = ú10.50 Paying in USD = $6.70
Seriously? I really though it was all converted into equal ammounts so everybody pays the same price. or somin.
This is an outrage! CCP DAMMIT rip off britain 4tl
Oh get a clue!
It has nothing to do with rip-off Britain. As an EU citizen you have to pay VAT on your subscription so that's 17.5% extra. Britain has little or no say in that although I doubt it complained too much. The biggest difference though is caused by the state of the American Dollar in recent years. Basically everyone thinks that the American economy is on the verge of a collapse and consequently no-one much wants dollars. 'Worse' still the EU and especially UK economies are looking so healthy that people actively want to buy our currency.
From CCP's POV it means that EU customers are paying about the same as they used to but US customers are getting their subscription at a big discount. The only people happy about that are US customers (I guess it's compensation for living in a dodgy economy). For us it ought to be irrelevant but CCP are probably unhappy about it and would like to raise US subscription charges but daren't.
Hopefully they follow standard business practice and are somewhat cushioned from changes in the money market but nonetheless they probably aren't too pleased. They are about the only people who have a 'right' to be annoyed though.
By the way....it's ú10.50 a month if you pay in Euros (via the EVE site). It's ú7.56 if you pay in USD (via GTC's). Is that some kind of tax loophole?
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Grash Freedom
Gallente MAZA Solutions
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Bentula Some misconceptions here, US people dont have to pay less, they pay the same they always did. Its not correct to say 15Ç are more than 15$ so EU people have to pay more, simple example:
Exchange rate is 1:1:
U.S. Dude earns 1500$ a weak and has to pay 1% of his income to ccp. A burger costs 1$. EU Dude earns 1500Ç a weak and has to pay 1% of his income to ccp. A burger costs 1Ç.
Now exchange rates screw up and its 1:1.3:
U.S. Dude still earns 1500$ and still pays 1% of his income to ccp. And a burger will still cost 1$(unless they buy parts of it from the EU which i dont assume). Likewise the EU dude will still earn 1500Ç and still have to pay 1% while his burger will also stay at 1Ç.
So relatively to his income the U.S. dude will pay the same as the EU dude. Its even the other way around, if your local currency is weak anything you import gets more expensive. Stuff like bananas, cars or gasoline. So while he still pays 1% of his income for the game, at the same time he has to pay more for many things of his daily life, increasing % of his available money the subscription will take up.
That being said EU people dont have to pay VAT for either the subscription or GTCs. Ccp however [b]has[/] to raise the VAT for everything they sell inside the EU, because its their duty as a company. If ccp sell GTCs outside of the EU they dont have to raise the (EU)VAT, and if you order a GTC from outside the EU you dont have to pay VAT either because its usually below value you have to declare at customs.
If you are unsure about any of this you can also just contact your CC company like i did, they know everything about "buying stuff in foreign countries".
P.S. The only people who can pay less are those receiving their income in a currency thats has a positve relation to the dollar, and buy GTCs in $.
That has nothing to do with how much you must pay for EVE, i live in Greece where the average wage is 800 euros, so according to your saying, Greeks have to pay 8 euros montly sub?? mate your logic is wrong
EvE is based in Iceland, what they want there is iskies, they do not care how much you make per month, they care about hte cost they have and the living cost where they live, not where you live
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Grash Freedom
That has nothing to do with how much you must pay for EVE, i live in Greece where the average wage is 800 euros, so according to your saying, Greeks have to pay 8 euros montly sub?? mate your logic is wrong
EvE is based in Iceland, what they want there is iskies, they do not care how much you make per month, they care about hte cost they have and the living cost where they live, not where you live
No you didnt get what i said at all. Look at the example, what i said is that just because your currency gets weaker or stronger relative to another doesnt affect how much of your income you have to bring up for eve. Exactly because there is no adjustment. And where did i say everyone had to pay 1% of his income for eve? 1500Ç/$ was just a example and the 1% too.
Also your wrong about ccp, they care where you live alot. You either live outside the EU and pay in $ or you live inside and pay in Ç. They dont however care about how much you earn, your right on that.
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Lord BlackSter
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:17:00 -
[42]
I pay via CreditCard from Europe and the bills get paid in USD - that means I (should) save money because of the high Euro Exchange Price atm
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lord BlackSter I pay via CreditCard from Europe and the bills get paid in USD - that means I (should) save money because of the high Euro Exchange Price atm
Correct, however thats an error on ccps part. You are supposed to get billed in euros, im sure they correct that mistake.
P.S. Pls convo me for offers to remove that quote of yours above so you can edit your reply .
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Banana Torres on 26/04/2007 15:24:34
Originally by: Bentula
Originally by: Lord BlackSter I pay via CreditCard from Europe and the bills get paid in USD - that means I (should) save money because of the high Euro Exchange Price atm
Correct, however thats an error on ccps part. You are supposed to get billed in euros, im sure they correct that mistake.
They can't without his permission. Or they can stop charging him.
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Lord BlackSter
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:37:00 -
[45]
Bentula .... pssssttt ... err and CCP - dont dare to change it
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Pay in Euro's, we pay 30% more than paying in USD.
Paying in USD means this game costs the same as every other MMO out there.
You're paying your taxes if you pay in Euros. It's not like CCP gets extra money. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Pay in Euro's, we pay 30% more than paying in USD.
Paying in USD means this game costs the same as every other MMO out there.
You're paying your taxes if you pay in Euros. It's not like CCP gets extra money.
How many times? 30% is NOT TAX.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Pay in Euro's, we pay 30% more than paying in USD.
Paying in USD means this game costs the same as every other MMO out there.
You're paying your taxes if you pay in Euros. It's not like CCP gets extra money.
How many times? 30% is NOT TAX.
Someone calculated this last fall in the Out of Pod Experience thread. It's pure tax. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:55:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 26/04/2007 15:52:19 I just calculated it up a few posts. 30% is NOT TAX. 17.5% is Tax.
Ç 13.41 would be the correct charge in Euros, not 14.95
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 15:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Pay in Euro's, we pay 30% more than paying in USD.
Paying in USD means this game costs the same as every other MMO out there.
You're paying your taxes if you pay in Euros. It's not like CCP gets extra money.
If you want to support ccp pay in Ç. The difference between subscriptions isnt just VAT tax, like somebody pointed out its about 30% instead of 17%, the difference is ccp makeing less money.
Its like this, CCP can get (15 -17%VAT -other taxes) in Ç or they get (15 -other taxes) in $. If the difference between Ç and $ gets bigger than 17% that means they get less from one(since the 15Ç/$ never change). Atm thats being the $, so do you now feel the love ccp has for our non european friends? They could just have everyone pay in Ç and then your CC would do the nasty on your bill and translate it to $ using the normal exchange rates.
P.S. Maybe i got something wrong but i think the 15Ç include the VAT while the 15$ dont. But that actually doesnt matter, it would just change the % at which ccp would make less from one or the other. It is really a very nice move from ccps part to bill people always the same regardless of exchange rates. Most other non localized mmorpgs only offer 1 primary currency you can pay in, and you will have changing rates as the exchange changes.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:01:00 -
[51]
I always have an exchange rate as currency here is British Sterling. It doesn't matter to me what MMO I play I always have an exchange rate, even when their servers are based in my own country (CCP).
EVE is the ONLY MMO which costs me more to pay in Euro's (even without VAT) than any other. In fact I can change my money to Euro's and then change it to dollars and still pay less than paying with Euros.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Pay in Euro's, we pay 30% more than paying in USD.
Paying in USD means this game costs the same as every other MMO out there.
You're paying your taxes if you pay in Euros. It's not like CCP gets extra money.
How many times? 30% is NOT TAX.
Someone calculated this last fall in the Out of Pod Experience thread. It's pure tax.
No its exchange rate AND tax. I make this very simple, lets say ccp has to pay 100k Ç(they pay pounds but i cant think in pounds so i use Ç, its just a example so dont jump me) for their servers in london(thats where eve is hosted).
Now you pay 15$, and i pay 15Ç. If you go here Currency calculator you see that your 15$ is actually about 11Ç. Even if we deduct the tax from the 15Ç it will still be more than your 15$.
Now ccp wont only have expenses in Ç, but it doesnt matter at all, because it doesnt matter in what currency you exchange 15Ç, you will always get more than exchanging 15$ in the same currency.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:12:00 -
[53]
You seem to be making the argument for me. We pay more in Euro's (without tax) than we do in Dollars (without Tax). So much so that the Tax factors in at around 30% when the TRUE tax should only be 17.5%.
Putting everything else aside the one factor I know for CERTAIN is that if I pay for EVE in Euro's it's more expensive than ANY other MMO, even Vanguard and I pay VAT on that through Sony.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:33:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Bentula on 26/04/2007 16:30:00
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot You seem to be making the argument for me. We pay more in Euro's (without tax) than we do in Dollars (without Tax). So much so that the Tax factors in at around 30% when the TRUE tax should only be 17.5%.
Putting everything else aside the one factor I know for CERTAIN is that if I pay for EVE in Euro's it's more expensive than ANY other MMO, even Vanguard and I pay VAT on that through Sony.
No i dont make your argument for you. Yes if you could pay 15 WHATEVER in a currency of your choice your bound to safe money. But dont blame ccp that you cant pay them in a currency of your choice. I mean you dont go screaming in the supermarket because you cant pay the same numer in $ instead of Ç or because oranges are cheaper in the U.S. either or do you? It safe to say that the exchange rates between $ and Ç are not ccps fault, so why blame it on them?
All they do is keeping prices constant no matter wether your in europe or not. And no you dont have the godgiven right to get a service for the same amount of money as someone else in another country. Just accept that eve has two primary currencys it gets paid for, based on where you live. And yes those seem to be independent from each other.
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Harisdrop
Gallente Vindicate and Deliverance
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:44:00 -
[55]
I thought the EU paid more cause they live in a place that can afford it. With all thier fancy taxes and social programs. You know they get free health care over the pond.
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