There is no mechanic that is going to let a small entity heroically win against a larger one other than incompetence on the part of the larger entity or extreme competence on the part of the smaller one. Neither of those can be enshrined in game mechanics by CCP.

Quoting for emphasis.

This has been proposed, in like six different flavors.

It doesn't make sense in Lore, a Titan has like thirteen THOUSAND crew and you would need to run for a couple of kilometers to reach anything vital, let alone take over the ship.

It would not be balanced. If you can kill a Capital more effectively with sub-caps than with caps then people will stop bringing caps, especially because most of the people with cap fleets also have lots and lots of bodies to throw at each other.

There is no mechanic that is going to let a small entity heroically win against a larger one other than incompetence on the part of the larger entity or extreme competence on the part of the smaller one. Neither of those can be enshrined in game mechanics by CCP.

Add close to a 0 onto that crew for the titan :P

However Cap fleets once they hit a certain scale do go against the EVE idea that bigger isn't better, and that is a long term problem for the game especially as certain groups get more and more supers over time.

This particular answer isn't the correct solution, but it is a valid problem it is trying to answer.

the size it takes to get to that level now that carriers have been fixed is rarely seen and until you get to that level you need sub caps or you're screwed.


though i feel removing HAW would be a good move i still don't get why these were added at all particularly when they made carriers a pure anti sub cap ship

However Cap fleets once they hit a certain scale do go against the EVE idea that bigger isn't better, and that is a long term problem for the game especially as certain groups get more and more supers over time.

This particular answer isn't the correct solution, but it is a valid problem it is trying to answer.

they add HAW to dread because they remove Dread's ability to blap with XL weapon when they nerf their application by large margin.

Carrier role have nothing to do with Dread's weapon system...

This has been proposed, in like six different flavors.

It doesn't make sense in Lore, a Titan has like thirteen THOUSAND crew and you would need to run for a couple of kilometers to reach anything vital, let alone take over the ship.

It would not be balanced. If you can kill a Capital more effectively with sub-caps than with caps then people will stop bringing caps, especially because most of the people with cap fleets also have lots and lots of bodies to throw at each other.

There is no mechanic that is going to let a small entity heroically win against a larger one other than incompetence on the part of the larger entity or extreme competence on the part of the smaller one. Neither of those can be enshrined in game mechanics by CCP.

Depends. If they're blue berries 13,000 of them wouldn't be able to stop a 16 man squad in dust514.
It's entirely plausible.

The hours spent running around hallways and engineering decks aren't very plausible...

It's not really the problem that needs fixed though. Eve needs more reasons to NOT be part of the super ultra mega coalitions and alliances. Too many people want to be part of the biggest fishes in the sea with too few reasons to NOT be. Even with all the changes that have been made to try and break the map up more, there are still not enough game reasons to NOT be part of the largest biggest groups, except personal choice really, because all those changes still haven't addressed that core issue.


No, I don't have a good answer for it either. But if that issue were able to be addressed, then this issue would be a long way towards a non issue.

This. Very much this.

If they want to have more smaller groups, they need to look at supporting them with bottom up income options in all areas of space.

This. Very much this.

If they want to have more smaller groups, they need to look at supporting them with bottom up income options in all areas of space.

Eve needs more reasons to NOT be part of the super ultra mega coalitions and alliances. Too many people want to be part of the biggest fishes in the sea with too few reasons to NOT be. Even with all the changes that have been made to try and break the map up more, there are still not enough game reasons to NOT be part of the largest biggest groups, except personal choice really, because all those changes still haven't addressed that core issue.


No, I don't have a good answer for it either. But if that issue were able to be addressed, then this issue would be a long way towards a non issue.

What about removing the sovereignty skill? Having 12600 people in one corp sounds awesome, and probably a main reason for people want to be in the biggest corp/alliance is simply because they can.
Also, is there anything that limits how many corps can be in an alliance? That could be limited by another skill, let's say lvl1 allows you to form an alliance with 4 corps, and each level doubles it.

I know a lot of big corps and alliances wouldn't like this change, but if we want to make the map more interesting, then this is in my opinion the easiest way to do it. Another way would be a corp/alliance tax that exponentially increase with the number of players involved, so only the most efficient could stay big.

Proposing something that I know will be hated, but make gate travel more like it is with wormholes with mass restrictions (null/low only, more restrictive for null) and nerf cynos even more. That would go a long way to fixing the cancer that is sov null.

as some one who has spent the majority of his time the last four years in small groups i never understood why people thought it was wrong that numbers provided an advantage....


is it just because they want to be able to make a group that can do all the same things rather than have to join one already set up or have to work their ass off for it?

Because there is a point where even the the most hard working your ass off for it mentality simply can't do anything next to the numbers game.


EDIT: misread your post.


It's also not a something wrong with numbers providing advantage, thing, it's a 'there are very few reasons to NOT be part of the numbers' thing, except your personal preference. So that's where most people end up. Now we have what 10, MAYBE, major entities in the game, and half of those there is definite argument on whether they should be included in the list? That's not healthy for the game.

Because there is a point where even the the most hard working your ass off for it mentality simply can't do anything next to the numbers game.


EDIT: misread your post.


It's also not a something wrong with numbers providing advantage, thing, it's a 'there are very few reasons to NOT be part of the numbers' thing, except your personal preference. So that's where most people end up. Now we have what 10, MAYBE, major entities in the game, and half of those there is definite argument on whether they should be included in the list? That's not healthy for the game.

but why is that bad? how is it not healthy?



why should the game bend itself around to give advantages to NOT working with other groups of players

There is a large difference between advantage, and untouchable.
See CCP's change to Titan's DD's now giving cap drain in a radius, to stop the super blob.
There are a number of other mechanics I am aware of from various other games that could be introduced that would do similar things to force the larger group to be better organised to take full advantage of their numbers.
If they succeed at taking advantage of those things, great for them, but right now the super blob mechanic is self reinforcing due to game mechanics.

will do nothing to lower the size of groups

will make taking an established groups space even harder

will have adverse effects on all of eve not just intended groups

will force the meta further in to cruisers and frigs

In your usual fashion you ignore 95% of what is said and pick at one thing you think you can argue with, while blatantly ignoring that you're completely agreeing with the main point to begin with. Thank you for agreeing that the game extremely rewards large group mentality while not giving enough reason to NOT be part of a large group. So have fun arguing with whatever it is you think you're arguing with.

...It's not like we're particularly at risk of a blue doughnut happening here. We've already seen what Null is like when one of those starts the form and it seems to take less than 2 months for someone to get bored and go "fight be bro!" just for something entertaining to do...

Blue donut or not doesn't have anything and everything to do with the matter at hand.

It comes don't to money. In a large group everyone can carebear all day long and make 200 gajillion isk with zero interruption or risk.
Look in "Ships and Modules" and see the 287556276575625 threads of "how to fit sooper for sanctum farming online".

Even if some scrub looses its sooper, it will get a new one in 2 days, continuing to farm 200 gajillion a day.


Now with that very unhealthy amount of money in each and everyones pocket they may buy whatever pile of poo they like and yolo it without any risk, any ounce of fathom of losing and rinse and repeat.

Then we have the less fortunate scrubs like me, having to go back to OMG-SOLO-WTF-PWN 7000% risk space that is called highsec where EVERYONE is your next alt of alt of ganking alt to make a pitty of a joke of money while in constant danger of losing your money making tools because some scrubs think it is funny to gank- it is not.

Then weeks later I may be able to buy one boat, clonejump back to Catch and fly may Augruor to logi 5x Brutix with a buddy and the response is 35 machariel, 10 hacs, 3 hictors because yolo.

Make explain how I can compete with that?

Yes PEST alliance I ignore you.

...Why not fix that by making large amounts of ISK decay? E.G. Decay rate is 1%. You have a billion. Every restart, you only have 99% of what you had, until you hit a 'poverty cap'. Like income tax today.

That way you only can get rich to the point your income will just barely mitigate that decay.

Then we have the less fortunate scrubs like me, having to go back to OMG-SOLO-WTF-PWN 7000% risk space that is called highsec where EVERYONE is your next alt of alt of ganking alt to make a pitty of a joke of money while in constant danger of losing your money making tools because some scrubs think it is funny to gank- it is not.

Then weeks later I may be able to buy one boat, clonejump back to Catch and fly may Augruor to logi 5x Brutix with a buddy and the response is 35 machariel, 10 hacs, 3 hictors because yolo.

Make explain how I can compete with that?

Yes PEST alliance I ignore you.

Why not fix that by making large amounts of ISK decay? E.G. Decay rate is 1%. You have a billion. Every restart, you only have 99% of what you had, until you hit a 'poverty cap'. Like income tax today.

That way you only can get rich to the point your income will just barely mitigate that decay.

Because there is a point where even the the most hard working your ass off for it mentality simply can't do anything next to the numbers game.