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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.04.30 14:57:00 -
[1]
Last year, and then some, tux made a post in a thread and dropped a big bomb for me:
he was considering removing all missile damage bonuses in exchange for boosting damage of all missiles on all boats to what it would be on a dedicated missile boat at skill level 5.
Sounds nutso, but I loved it.
 It would increase the variety of setups because utilizing the launcher slots on a mostly turret ship would make sense for once,
missile boats could get other missile related bonuses to set them apart from hybrid boats, and
missile boats themselves would still have the same damage.
Other boats would be slightly stronger than missile boats, but adding range or explosion radius bonuses, in place of the damage bonuses, would balance it out nicely.
Any input? I've been trying to resurrect the idea since the day I heard it.
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Friends Forever
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.04.30 17:31:00 -
[2]
IMO LOL
Missile ships ae aleady weak in PVP, do nerf them any further.
I cant imagine any bonus witch could be usefull, longer range for missiles so ia have to sacrifice another mid slot fo SB ? Explosion speed or radius ? We have special ammo already.
But ill gladly switch damage bonus to RoF bonus :))
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Draekas Darkwater
Sanctum Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.04.30 20:59:00 -
[3]
ROF bonus would be nice. :) Also, then you could use any missile type, rather than just kinetic or whatnot, giving missile boats a bit more flexibility while still doing good dps.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.03 06:32:00 -
[4]
They wouldnt be any weaker, in fact, missle ships would automatically have damage that lvl5 in the ship class would provide.
What it does is let other ships get use out of missles.
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Friends Forever
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2007.05.03 11:49:00 -
[5]
Hm, but how would missile boats be better than random ship X then? I mean, REALLY better?
I like a Nighthawk's explosion radius reduction, but apart from that... I mean, increased velocity has some value to reduce time before hit and to make defenders hit worse, but increased flight time is basically useless.
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.05.03 17:32:00 -
[6]
Why not just remove any +damage to guns, all have all ships be the same? Reason: Its a dumb idea. The ship bonus helps distinguish between different ships, and has a huge effect on its role. Why would anyone train their ships to a higher level then?
However, +a certain damage type should be changed to +rof. This would really help a missile ships supposed benefit of being able to switch damage types. Whats the point when half the time the persons lesser resist is balanced out by your lesser damage.
Also, missile velocity increase range, which is useful in some situations.
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 21:28:00 -
[7]
Missiles need to have a lower damage potential since they can be fired with equal effectiveness from any range and you dont have to take any consideration in for tracking meaning you can fly at 5km/s in circles and not lose your ability to hit.
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:04:00 -
[8]
My point wasn't that missiles shouldn't have lower damages, I agree with that rationale. But when a ship has +kinetic, most times the kinetic damage is just the high as explosive or em, even if the other person has lower resists for these types, because you don't get the +25% (at level V).
If all ships had a +5% damage in general, or +3% rof, it would allow missile ships to actually change missile types for effect, like they are supposed to be able to do.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2007.05.05 00:11:00 -
[9]
Let's remove all damage bonuses, or lower them to 2% per level.
Problem solved, and non dmg-bonused ships would also become more attractive.
It's a too much sought-after bonus anyway. Probably because it's stronger than most of the others.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.05 05:51:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Rid**** Valer
My point wasn't that missiles shouldn't have lower damages, I agree with that rationale. But when a ship has +kinetic, most times the kinetic damage is just the high as explosive or em, even if the other person has lower resists for these types, because you don't get the +25% (at level V).
If all ships had a +5% damage in general, or +3% rof, it would allow missile ships to actually change missile types for effect, like they are supposed to be able to do.
Missile ships already have the ability to lose the least of any race when switching damage types. That kinetic is a strong enough bonus that sometimes it doesnt make sense is just a plus.
With cruiser 5, against base resists
Shields: EM does 33% more damage than kin, Thermal does 6.6% better damage than kin
Minmatar Armor: Kinetic is 4.4% better than Explosive
Amarr Armor: Kinetic is 17.5% better than Explosive
Gallente Armor: Explosive is 11.1% better than Kinetic
Caldari Armor: Kinetic is 4.4% better than Explosive
Againt Tri-hardened Minmatar: Kinetic is best, then explosive
Against Tri-Hardened Amarr: Kin is best, then EM
Against tri-hardened Gallente: EM/EX is best, then kin
Against tri-hardened caldari: Kin is best, then EM/EX
So there is reason to change damage types.
Against minmatar and amarr omni tanks, a good damage type is kin, since the shields are weak and the better DPS on armor is more important.
Against Gallente omni tanks: Em damage is best for shields, then ex damage against armor.
Against Minmatar tri-hardened tanks kin is best.
Against Amarr tri-hardened, kin is only slightly stronger than EM, and EM is a lot stronger on the shields. Changing from EM is probably not worth the 5% more dps.
Against Gallente tri-hardened: EM is the best the entire time
Against Caldari shield tanks, EM is likly to be hardened extra, making Thermal a good choice for the shield and then kin the best choice for the armor.
And so it seems there really are reasons to change damage types
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.05 07:44:00 -
[11]
Aye, killing the bonus and replacing it with a blanket buff to damage would unbalance missiles and take the perk out of missile boats.
To put a point on what was said above, what if Gallente ships lost their hybrid turret bonuses and hybrid turrets got a performance boost to what they'd do on a max-skill Deimos? Well, the Ferox would suck an awful lot less, but apart from that, there's really not much to like about the change.
To sum up, it would flatten the topography of the EvE shipyard and take a whole dimension out of the game.
In the back of my mind, of course, is the desire to take the majority of the complexity out of EvE, and replace all teh T2 and faction crap and the gas couds and the implants and the capital ships and the POSes with miners and T1 ships and adaptable, customizable structures, but that sort of pipe dream does nobody any good if only a tiny fraction of it is implemented.
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.05.05 14:23:00 -
[12]
OMG, missiles were nerfed a while ago because they were too powerful. Missiles :
negative 1. Only do x damage and no wrecking shots.
negative 2. Are only effective agianst larger ships with big sigs.
negative 3. Are only good against slow ships.
negative 4. Only do one damage type instead of em/thermal etc.
negative 5. Have such a low ROF that you're dead by the time you've shot the third volley.
Positive 1. Have no tracking problems.
positive 2. have a longer range than most weapons - If you spend months training the skills.
positive 3. FOF have the ability to fire even when jammed, (balanced by lower damage).
Already the negatives outweigh the positives since 2 of the positives are already gimped. If we have any more nerfs for missiles, it would make missiles useless on ships with 1 or 2 launcher slots. Missile boats such as the Raven would benefit but it would be back to the old system of Raven=I Win button. Everyone would train up to fly one because it would be the uber ship again.
Leave missiles as they are! Don't fix what isn't broken! There are many other things in this game that are broken, fix them instead.
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