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evil penguin Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:15:00 - [1] I am wondering how viable this would be. Thinking more along the lines of an HP/resistance tank as the recharge rate is pathetic. My skills are pretty lacking at the moment. I have about 16400 shield with about 90% kinetic and about 67% thermal, this massively reduces the damage I take from Guristas as they mostly use kinetic missiles. I was thinking this could be quite good with maxed out shield skills, BS 5, T2 extenders/hardeners(using named, will have skills for T2 in a few days) and some shield extender rigs. Any thoughts or suggestions? Anyone tried it already and had success/failure?
Ozstar Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:19:00 - [2] another caldari passive thread
evil penguin Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Ozstar another caldari passive thread Such a helpful reply... I ahve been unable to find any info on passive tanking the Rokh. In one of the Rokh threads there a question about it but doesnt seem to be answered. Aslo I was hoping for an indepth discussion about the Rokh AND passive tank. Not other Caldari ships and/or other Rokh setup methods. I think you will find no thread like this already exists, I certainly couldnt find one. Please post something constructive or keep out of threads that you have no valid input for.
Marquis Dean Energy. Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:25:00 - [4] I think passive tanking requires Shield Power Relays. I think Shield Power Relays nerf your cap regen into nonexistence. I think Rokh guns use cap to fire. I think your Rokh is going to cap out just by firing it's guns. I think you need a Drake or a Raven. I think if you must use a Rokh, just use an active tank. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
evil penguin Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.01 11:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Marquis Dean I think passive tanking requires Shield Power Relays. I think Shield Power Relays nerf your cap regen into nonexistence. I think Rokh guns use cap to fire. I think your Rokh is going to cap out just by firing it's guns. I think you need a Drake or a Raven. I think if you must use a Rokh, just use an active tank. You dont think a pure HP tank would work then? If my maths are correct with all the stuff I suggested it would ahve about 30k shield. With BS 5 and T2 mods against Guristas it would have a kinetic resistance of about 92%, that gives an effective shield HP of 375000. I have no idea how that corresponds to an actual combat situation though. I would think it could do most level 4s against Guristas but thats just a guess. I've seen from the other Rokh threads that most people use an active tank and it works well. I was just curious to the viability of a pure HP passive tank on it. Thankyou for the useful input Marquis. Following on from our discussion about the Raven the other day I am now using your suggested setup for it (but with mostly named items, T2 in a fwe days). It is working very well for me, so thaankyou for that too.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:21:00 - [6] "I think Shield Power Relays nerf your cap regen into nonexistence. I think Rokh guns use cap to fire. I think your Rokh is going to cap out just by firing it's guns.ö Just use a mix of PDS and relays and you donÆt have any cap problems. I use blasters with a passive tank on my Gallente ships and never have cap problems so I fail to see why a Rokh would. Passive shield tanking guide click here
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:22:00 - [7] If you wanted to gimp your DPS you could use missiles. I've in the process of maxing my shield skills (I've already got BS 5). In fact, passive shielding relies mostly on low slots and natural regen, which is why the Drake is so good at it. You'd be far better putting an active tank on it, and my god will that thing tank. Sorry, I know this isn't really that helpful . I mean it is possible to passive tank anything, just it might not be that good at it (compared to active tanking). Best bet is to get yourself QF, pop in the relevant skills at the levels you think, put on a passive tank and then an active tank. The passive hardners with compensation 5, along with the natural 25% from BS 5 will do quite well, actually. But then cap regen will be the problem. You could use missiles+artillery+passive hardeners and you wouldn't need to rely on the cap at all, but you're missing out on the bonuses then. -J --------------------------------- "He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson Balanced != Nerfed
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:27:00 - [8] Passive regen BS don't work.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.05.01 12:42:00 - [9] Your idea is generally better for pvp than pve... In PvE you will mostly be fighting for longer times than in PvP and hence you don't need too big shield buffer. I say try it out if you want - I don't think you'll get TOO far with tha passive BS. Pinky - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Marquis Dean Energy. Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.01 13:03:00 - [10] Originally by: evil penguin Originally by: Marquis Dean I think passive tanking requires Shield Power Relays. I think Shield Power Relays nerf your cap regen into nonexistence. I think Rokh guns use cap to fire. I think your Rokh is going to cap out just by firing it's guns. I think you need a Drake or a Raven. I think if you must use a Rokh, just use an active tank. You dont think a pure HP tank would work then? If my maths are correct with all the stuff I suggested it would ahve about 30k shield. With BS 5 and T2 mods against Guristas it would have a kinetic resistance of about 92%, that gives an effective shield HP of 375000. I have no idea how that corresponds to an actual combat situation though. I would think it could do most level 4s against Guristas but thats just a guess. I've seen from the other Rokh threads that most people use an active tank and it works well. I was just curious to the viability of a pure HP passive tank on it. Thankyou for the useful input Marquis. Following on from our discussion about the Raven the other day I am now using your suggested setup for it (but with mostly named items, T2 in a fwe days). It is working very well for me, so thaankyou for that too. No worries. My passive Drake cap'd out just by running 2 invul fields and a sensor booster once, I wasn't impressed. Passive tanks work especially well on BCs and HACs because they can use oversized stuff like LSEs, which are technically meant for BS. BS have no such advantage. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.01 13:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Passive regen BS don't work. Sadly true. On the other hand rats do such pathetic dps these days that I can go npcing in a pure gank setup with either a LARII or an XL booster on and still happily solo 1.5 triple spawns. Double NPC dps and double their bounties! sgb
evil penguin Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.05.01 13:43:00 - [12] Seems the general opinion is that it wont work too well which is a shame. I will still give it a try when I have better shield skills but sounds like I will be better off with an active tank. Thanks for all the replies.
Ethyn Caldari Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Passive regen BS don't work. True, but have you scene the Scorpion that was passive shielded? It was regen'ing 1k in shields a sec. Now that was a seriously passive tanking build, and was only for effective not for practicality. Active tank is the way to go. GO Fast or Die!
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.01 14:31:00 - [14] I donÆt agree with the statement Battleships cannot passive tank. Only Caldara battleships cannot passive tank. Gallente battleships work decently for PvE. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Ethyn Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Passive regen BS don't work. True, but have you scene the Scorpion that was passive shielded? It was regen'ing 1k in shields a sec. Now that was a seriously passive tanking build, and was only for effective not for practicality. Active tank is the way to go. That doesn't exist. A scorpion can -AT MOST- passively peak at 260hp/s. And that's using T2 purge rigs, t2 spr:s, and t2 shield rechargers, with extenders, and basically zero usability.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.01 15:54:00 - [16] ôThat doesn't exist. A scorpion can -AT MOST- passively peak at 260hp/s.ö I get 491.17 HP/s in a group add on the Gang titan skill for more. Surly you can lower that down to 300 or 200 HP/s and get decent usability out of it. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.01 18:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Pottsey ôThat doesn't exist. A scorpion can -AT MOST- passively peak at 260hp/s.ö I get 491.17 HP/s in a group add on the Gang titan skill for more. Surly you can lower that down to 300 or 200 HP/s and get decent usability out of it. OK, if you push it you can get that. But -still- that's no 1000...
Tu Madre	Posted - 2007.05.02 03:29:00 - [18] Edited by: Tu Madre on 02/05/2007 03:27:21 yeah i played around with this for kicks - set it up with 2 hardners in the mids and the rest regolith extenders. also had 2 of the sheild extender rigs on and a sheild charge rate rig also/ on the lows i use sheild power relays i have 27772 HP on the sheild and the recharge time is around 450 give or take 20. originaly set it up as a 0.0 miner that never needed anyone to tank and it works really well i can tank 3 1.85mil BS rats and a dire cruiser escort no probs they never get me past 70% cap lasts a long time while mining but. large guns empty the cap pretty quickly you would need an injector i guess as the recharge rate is around 4k lol but the way i used to use it was fill a canotainer then go to station get hauler pick up **** and then go out again - cap is full upon exiting from station :) if i was doing it again i would put in 2 recharge rate rigs and only one extender rig. it was a success in my mind becuse it worked really well for what i wanted ot for. possible other high slot configurations include nos/blaster hybrid - NOs might keep you in juice for a bit longer while hitting away - im pretty sure youd last a lot longer than your opponent im getting about 600 HP recharged over 4 secs atm but im sure it could be better with t2 mods all round
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.02 05:26:00 - [19] And no resists whatsoever, with the signature of a capital = one dead battleship.
mematar The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.02 05:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Passive regen BS don't work. I would say 2 BS should work for passive tanking, Rokh and Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake can get some nice recharge with some nice resists.
mematar The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.02 05:45:00 - [21] Edited by: mematar on 02/05/2007 05:47:56 Passive tanked Snake: 6x Siege II 1x Heavy Dim 2x DG Invul Field 2x LSE II 2x Recharger II 2x BCS II 3x SPR II 1x PDS II 3x Core Defence Field Purger 7.88 cap/sec, hardeners take 6 cap/sec. Peak recharge around 185 with ~decent skills (Lvl 4) If you change to 4x SPR II, 2x PDS II, you can get roughly 350 hp/sec. I would say it's a nice passive tank from a bs :) EDIT: Errrm, dont ask why I posted it, it was a Rokh thread which I didnt remember :( I R SOWWY! But try something similiar on your Rokh, it should work out.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.02 06:04:00 - [22] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 02/05/2007 06:01:06 Originally by: mematar Edited by: mematar on 02/05/2007 05:47:56 Passive tanked Snake: 6x Siege II 1x Heavy Dim 2x DG Invul Field 2x LSE II 2x Recharger II 2x BCS II 3x SPR II 1x PDS II 3x Core Defence Field Purger 7.88 cap/sec, hardeners take 6 cap/sec. Peak recharge around 185 with ~decent skills (Lvl 4) If you change to 4x SPR II, 2x PDS II, you can get roughly 350 hp/sec. I would say it's a nice passive tank from a bs :) EDIT: Errrm, dont ask why I posted it, it was a Rokh thread which I didnt remember :( I R SOWWY! But try something similiar on your Rokh, it should work out. I tried your setup here, and it peaked at around 260hp/s. Without resistances (We're talking sheer regen here, not tankability) Also I dunno why you use DG invuls, t2 invuls are so much cheaper. :) I guess it's a "decent" passive setup though, but an active Rokh is far better at tanking.
mematar The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.02 06:09:00 - [23] I use DG Invul because my current Snake has them fitted so why not? :) But ye, active tanking this thing is a lot better idea than passive tanking.
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.05.02 07:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Pottsey I donÆt agree with the statement Battleships cannot passive tank. Only Caldara battleships cannot passive tank. Gallente battleships work decently for PvE. ok iam not that much into pve, but from time to time iam npcing. So your statment leads me to some questions... 1) How do you passiv tank an armor tanker, I know the domi can be a shield tank, but its just tier 1 and doenst need weapons. As passiv tanks relay on the fact that some regens by itself and afaik armor has no option to regen itself. So how do you do that, just out of intrest. On the matter i agree, that bs are not worth passiv tanking, as you have pleant of cap and option to run a decent avtive tank.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:16:00 - [25] Edited by: Akita T on 02/05/2007 08:21:42 I don't get it, why people try to imply armor plated BS setups with undersized repairers are any good while extended shield battleships aren't. It's a HP/gank biased setup vs regen/resist biased setup, and it can be feasable in a number of situations. Sure, not many BSs can use a regen/resist (i.e. tank) passive setup, while most BSs can use a HP/gank passive setup, either shield or armor. For a HP-based gank setup, you don't use purgers and SPRs, you use extenders and PDUs (plus damage mods). Rest is quite the same as a typical regen tank. Sure, your peak recharge is pretty crappy (but it exists) and you can't fit tackling gear (you wouldn't need any, as it's mostly a gang setup), but at the same time you do get an awesome cap recharge and can fit a few damage mods, etc. To give you an idea, each and every LSE II you fit on a 3xPDU-II, 3-Extender-I rigged ship with a L4 siege warfare commander gang and a 3% gnome shield amount pilot (damned cheap implant) and L4 shield manegement (safe to assume you have at least that much) would give you around 6169 extra shield HP, and that's a conservative estimate for a decent gank squad. It's not a huge extra buffer, but it does help a lot in "gank" setups where every extra second survival time counts. Also, it might not mean much, but it also boosts shield recharge rate and doesn't slow you down, so that unlike plates, this is actually a good choice on MWDing blaster boats (you already have the sig of a small moon while MWDing, the extra from extenders doesn't really matter anymore). ___ There's only a handfull of BSs that are even worth considering as regen tanks (as opposed to HP tanks), as most of them can get similar or better results with a cheap active tank... and most of them require capacitor to fire the weapons, so SPRs are out of the question. The only "leftovers", that can passive regen tank worth a damn, are missile/drone/projectile (and also NOS/Neut) BSs, and preferably the ones with a decent shield amount. In other words: Rattlesnake (torps), Machariel (arty), Dominix (drone/NOS). Rest either lack the initial shield, the slots, rely too much on capacitor to deal damage, or are simply way too much better as active tanks. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:25:00 - [26] ö1) How do you passiv tank an armor tanker,ö I meant passive shield tanking Gallente ships as they are the main race at is as far as I am concerned. There battleships can passive tank more then good enough to do PvE. It might not always be the best option but it works. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:34:00 - [27] Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 02/05/2007 08:30:22 Originally by: Pottsey ö1) How do you passiv tank an armor tanker,ö I meant passive shield tanking Gallente ships as they are the main race at is as far as I am concerned. There battleships can passive tank more then good enough to do PvE. It might not always be the best option but it works. Iam not fully into this passiv tank ships things, I know how it works, but thats about it. so my i ask you sir proof or stfu :D
mematar The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 02/05/2007 08:30:22 Originally by: Pottsey ö1) How do you passiv tank an armor tanker,ö I meant passive shield tanking Gallente ships as they are the main race at is as far as I am concerned. There battleships can passive tank more then good enough to do PvE. It might not always be the best option but it works. Iam not fully into this passiv tank ships things, I know how it works, but thats about it. so my i ask you sir proof or stfu :D Pottsey is the king of passive tanking, dont question him! (not a j/k)
Marquis Dean Energy. Insurgency	Posted - 2007.05.02 08:49:00 - [29] Originally by: mematar Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 02/05/2007 08:30:22 Originally by: Pottsey ö1) How do you passiv tank an armor tanker,ö I meant passive shield tanking Gallente ships as they are the main race at is as far as I am concerned. There battleships can passive tank more then good enough to do PvE. It might not always be the best option but it works. Iam not fully into this passiv tank ships things, I know how it works, but thats about it. so my i ask you sir proof or stfu :D Pottsey is the king of passive tanking, dont question him! (not a j/k) Just cause Pottsey will tell you to passive shield tank every ship in the game, that doesn't make him right. Not everyone has shield skills like Pottsey and not everyone wants fit a ship like Pottsey. --- Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.02 09:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Pottsey on 02/05/2007 09:55:20 Always question me. I make mistakes like everyone else Its best never to take everything someone says as always 100% right. If you donÆt understand how they got to a results question them. You never know you might find out they made a mistake or learn something your self. At work so I cannot play and post numbers but will do when I get home. I still stand by what I said you can passive tank any Gallente battleship to a useable standard in PvE. But its not always better then active tanking. Passive tanking is not always the best option. Passive shield tanking guide click here

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