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Jared Lighthawk
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.05.02 14:59:00 -
[1]
I'm a new player, not even a month old into the game. Please keep that in mind before some of you out for blood attack.
Watching how the game works, and being stolen from or blown up a few times now, it seems the game by design favors pirates. An example is a rat with a 4.0 rating flies up and steals my ore and then blows up my ship (why he didn't in the other order I have no idea). What happens? Nothing, at all. I was in .4 space so no defense, and his rating is till 4.0 even though the game acknowledges he stole (aggression timer).
For someone who isn't a pirate we can't even defend ourselves against those that are unless they shoot first or we risk loosing our ratings and can get attacked by concord.
Maybe I just don't get how it all works, but from a new players point of view it certainly seems EVE rewards wanna be rats by design. |
Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:04:00 -
[2]
What do you really think the game is ment to be? Look down there.....
at my little sig.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Sophal
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:06:00 -
[3]
Well mine/rat in safer areas. This game is not a carebear game and your gana have to watch your arse.
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Angelica Krem
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:06:00 -
[4]
A pirate will tell you that it's to hard to be a pirate, a victim will tell you that it's to easy to be a pirate. I guess that means it's balanced?
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 02/05/2007 15:03:56
Generally, yes EVE is designed so everything is blowupable.
However, you might just not grasp the mechanics there.
If I got you right, you were in a 0.4 sec space, which means there indeed is no defence other than gate/station guns.
So, if he comes in in 0.4 and seems to take something from your can, just kill him, since as you saw, the security drop is only a %age, means he might drop 0.2 or something lower than he was before.
Once he steals from your can, he is flagged and you can shoot him without a sec stat. hit.
Also, dont rely on someone sec rating. If a pirate was in 0.0 for a week npcing he will have a positive sec status, if a anti pirate kills enough not-flashing pirates he will have a negative sec status.
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Jared Lighthawk
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:07:00 -
[6]
That's true, however not actually a reply to my post. My post was about the game seeming to favor rat behavoir over anything else. I really don't care if someone wants to dawn their little pirate hat and pretend to be the scourge of deep space but it just seems that the way the system works they are favored.
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Haks'he Lirky
Zombie Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:09:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
That's true, however not actually a reply to my post. My post was about the game seeming to favor rat behavoir over anything else. I really don't care if someone wants to dawn their little pirate hat and pretend to be the scourge of deep space but it just seems that the way the system works they are favored.
Try being a pirate :)
Trust me the game mechanics are not favoured towards the pirate profession.
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Jared Lighthawk
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:09:00 -
[8]
He flew up, stole from the can, blew me up and flew away to dock and wait out the timer asap. Efficient but what I mean is there's no negative side effects. His rating didn't change, at all.
Bah nevermind you guys are just looking for another person to gut.
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 02/05/2007 15:08:10
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
That's true, however not actually a reply to my post. My post was about the game seeming to favor rat behavoir over anything else. I really don't care if someone wants to dawn their little pirate hat and pretend to be the scourge of deep space but it just seems that the way the system works they are favored.
0.0 - 0.4 does. If you are in 0.5 or above concord protects you from being killed.
If you think this favors the pirates, then yes, EVE leans toward it. I dont really think its that way since you can be reasonably safe in high-sec if you watch out.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
What do you really think the game is ment to be? Look down there.....
at my little sig.
QFT
[center]__________________________________[center]
Friend> DUDE!? Where'd that guy come from!?
DubanFP> Well, when a man and a woman want to have a baby... |
Heriom
UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM
THE V I G I L
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:11:00 -
[11]
Jared your future lies in anti-pirating my friend
Come join an anti pie corp or alliance and vent your anger on these paresites
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Sen'ile
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
That's true, however not actually a reply to my post. My post was about the game seeming to favor rat behavoir over anything else. I really don't care if someone wants to dawn their little pirate hat and pretend to be the scourge of deep space but it just seems that the way the system works they are favored.
no it doesnt.
the game favours work-work-work alot and not the fun pew-pew-pew as much.
pirates cant enter highsec space
anyone can shoot at them once they reach -5.0 sec
sentries dont help them if you attack them
if they attack you sentries will fire at them.
the odds are stacked in the non-pirates corner
all the pirates have are their skills and tactics and very often brass balls.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 |
Drakin030
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
He flew up, stole from the can, blew me up and flew away to dock and wait out the timer asap. Efficient but what I mean is there's no negative side effects. His rating didn't change, at all.
Bah nevermind you guys are just looking for another person to gut.
Hey...You could always play WoW.
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LLucan Dleaur
The Praxis Initiative
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:13:00 -
[14]
Welcome to Eve. 
[nitpick] First, non-player rats are usually called 'rats' versus player pirates. [/nitpick]
You have it right. What makes Eve so unique is it is a big sandbox to play in. You can work to become a mega-industrialist or a pie-rat. This is one big Player-vs-Player orgy. I came into this game with pretty low opinions of "PKers" but this game warps all sense of ethics and morality. Pirating and skulduggery is a perfectly acceptable path of infamy. I haven't crossed over to the dark side yet, but give it time. It may happen one day.
Don't let this stuff get under your skin. Each loss you experience is an opportunity to learn and become stronger. What kills you, makes you stronger.  And you will soon know how to protect yourself and your assets and minimize your risks. You might even find yourself going out and looking for blood.
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Haks'he Lirky
Zombie Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
He flew up, stole from the can, blew me up and flew away to dock and wait out the timer asap. Efficient but what I mean is there's no negative side effects. His rating didn't change, at all.
Bah nevermind you guys are just looking for another person to gut.
If he blew you up without activating an aggression timer then he got a security hit, even though it might not show on his rating, sometimes the sec rating lags as well to observers, sometimes I have had -1.9 but my friend saw -1.8.
In any case, if he shoots you without making you aggress him in some way first then he gets a sec rating hit.
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Chewan Mesa
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:16:00 -
[16]
Oh yeah and you now have killrights on him prolly.
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Gladia Horusthu
Gallente
Anything Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:20:00 -
[17]
The game favors player versus player tactics at different levels. What you experienced is a part of that. Systems of different levels of security rating favor different types of pvp. For example, high-sec space favors market scams and attempts at destabilizing the market on some particular item. High and medium sec both are also good for can-flipping and ore theft, which leaves the thief vulnerable to attack back (but he is typically better equipped than a miner). Suicide ganking of high value targets is also common, as are scavengers stealing loot from both ganker and gankee.
In lowsec, there is piracy and basic combat just for s&g. You also get loot scavengers out here (I know one guy as a noob who made millions of ISK his first couple days stealing cans). Also, pipelines through 0.0 space start in lowsec, and often alliances will have presences here. Security status on a character means little, a negative security status might mean a pirate hunter (since there is still a sec hit in killing someone if their sec rating is above -5) and a pirate might have a high sec rating as easier access to 0.0 can mean ratting that raises security.
Thus, even outside of "lawless" space the game mechanisms provide for a range of "pirate" or at least hostile tactics that you read about quite a bit on this forum. This is encouraged by CCP. There are ways to avoid much of this, but they require specific types of gameplay and self-imposed limitations on your goals and tactics.
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Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:26:00 -
[18]
CONCORD was implemented in EVE so that things don't get too out of hand in high sec. CONCORD is a crude version of policing at best, they keep EVE from being a total gankfest but just barely. Pirates have figured out ways to circumvent CONCORD penalties ages ago.
So in effect yes EVE favors the pirate player over any other.
***
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:32:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 02/05/2007 15:28:26
I'm not a new player, more than a year old into the game. Please keep that in mind before some of you out for blood attack.
Watching how the game works, and seeing carebear everywhere, the majority of the game-pop doing things with little or no risk, it seems the game by design favors carebears. An example mining/ratting/missions/trading/manufacturing etc. - free CNR:s in hi-sec. - you would think that these people would experience some REAL danger once in a while... what happens? Nothing, at all.
For someone who is a pirate we provide with a good risk vs. reward factor by being in low-sec (or 0.0) ... and these people hide behind concord, or sentry-guns.
Maybe I just don't get how it all works, but from an old players point of view it certainly seems EVE rewards wanna be solo-players by design.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.05.02 15:42:00 -
[20]
"Does EVE favor piracy by design?"
yes. in the same way an ocean full of fish favours the shark, and a Serengeti full of game favours big cats.
um. or the human bowel favours the tapeworm.
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Onchas Erivvia
The Andromeda Directorate
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:03:00 -
[21]
It is disappointing how few people have actually tried to respond to your concerns.
Yes, the game does favour the attacker. That's probably not that surprising though, is it?
In the situation where you're describing of being a miner, there's really nothing you're going to do to stop a pirate if you're on your own in low-sec.
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
Watching how the game works, and being stolen from or blown up a few times now, it seems the game by design favors pirates. An example is a rat with a 4.0 rating flies up and steals my ore and then blows up my ship (why he didn't in the other order I have no idea). What happens? Nothing, at all. I was in .4 space so no defense, and his rating is till 4.0 even though the game acknowledges he stole (aggression timer).
0.4 mining is rarely done. Why? The number of pirates and how hard it is to defend yourself.
It is partially a game design issue. It's true that if you mine with a group it's easier to defend yourself against pirates, but there are game design issues that make cooperative mining difficult unless you trust the people you're working with. I won't lay out the whole argument here, but the game mechanics lacks the tools that ought to exist to help build trust other than taking that leap of faith. But there are a lot of people out there who WANT to grief people, who think stealing and ripping people off is a profession, and making a n00b alt and stealing a can of ore that way is considered to be an accomplishment.
The Pirate Hunter profession is also not well developed. A pirate hunter faces the exact same penalties for PvP as a pirate. There ought to be some version of a letter of Marquis that gives someone license to hunt pirates in the area.
Quote:
For someone who isn't a pirate we can't even defend ourselves against those that are unless they shoot first or we risk loosing our ratings and can get attacked by concord.
You won't get Concorded in 0.1-0.4 space. Those are considered "low-sec". The gate and base guns will shoot at you but Concord won't come. Concord is a police force that only enforces rules in high sec (0.5 and above). And even then, Concord is a responding force. You could very well get ganked before they get there if your aggressor is willing to take the death.
Quote:
Maybe I just don't get how it all works, but from a new players point of view it certainly seems EVE rewards wanna be rats by design.
"Rats" in this case means "pirates". And yes, it does. But not for the reasons you think. If you were to cooperatively work together with other miners and bring along ships to defend you, you'd be fine by and large. What discourages that is the lack of secure mechanisms for sharing minerals with ad hoc groups and the fact that the more people you have defending you, the less overall profit you make. Quickly mining can go from being profitable to unprofitable.
Oh, and the hardest thing about pirating is finding people to kill. That's because of the abundance of pirates basically chasing everyone off. Pirating's not actually hard. It's pretty simple PvP really. They're rarely going to face any sort of organized response and rarely going to have to deal with a probing ship.
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'Teh Onchinator'
Personal Assistant to MrsPitman |
Mushise
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:20:00 -
[22]
Eve does not favor piracy.
- Players get concord protection + 6 sentries at every gate with target jamming concord in .5-1.0
- Players get Sentry protection at stations and gates in .4-.1
- Players get warp to 0km option
That warp to 0km has killed piracy in so many ways. The only people getting ganked in empire are the people that are AFK and this game isn't ment to be played AFK.
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Onchas Erivvia
The Andromeda Directorate
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mushise
Eve does not favor piracy.
Which is why low-sec is over run with mission runners and miners.
err...
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'Teh Onchinator'
Personal Assistant to MrsPitman |
DarkFenix
Caldari
Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:31:00 -
[24]
Eve is a great big sandbox with thousands of kids playing in it. 0.0-0.4 are the corners of the sandbox out of sight of all the responsible adults making sure the kids play nice. Does this area favour pirates? Not as such, it just doesn't not favour them. Out there the bigger kids can break your toys without much repercussion.
Long story short, if you enter lowsec unprepared you're asking to be popped. All you need to do is shrug, get another ship and learn from your mistake. Eve is full of mistakes waiting to be learned from the hard way, and that's part of what makes it so great.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:35:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Wendat Huron on 02/05/2007 16:30:53
Originally by: Drakin030
Originally by: Jared Lighthawk
He flew up, stole from the can, blew me up and flew away to dock and wait out the timer asap. Efficient but what I mean is there's no negative side effects. His rating didn't change, at all.
Bah nevermind you guys are just looking for another person to gut.
Hey...You could always play WoW.
Drakin030 is hiding in the Westfall forest on the Ravenhold RP-PvP server, anyways that's what my location agent told me.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Mushise
Eve does not favor piracy.
Which is why low-sec is over run with mission runners and miners.
err...
They don't go to low-sec, because they can run missions without risk in hi-sec. It's a rational choice thing.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
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Posted - 2007.05.02 16:41:00 -
[27]
Actually, to answer your actual question. Yes, the game mechanics in Eve are pirate-centric. This is especially true in lowsec (.4-.1) systems. Now there will be many flames about this but truth is that if your doing anything that is not combat related, then pirates always have the advantage. Even in highsec, pirates have the advantage. Why? there are several reason but the main ones.
1. Securty Standing - The pirates dont care if they loose security standing, but the builder or miner must care or they take a hit in doing economic pvp. This is also why in lowsec, the pirate will get the first shot.
2. Alts - With the use of alts, the pirates dont have to worry about getting into highsec to sell or buy, they just send an alt. Alts also ruin alot of professions and player interactions but it is too late now to do anything.
3. Risk vs Reward - pretty much there is none for pirates. Thier ships are insured so they are only out the cost of the modules. They get to initiate the ganking since the non-pirate would take a loss for starting a fight.
Till some of these issues are addressed, then yeah, the pirates have all the advantages and few disavantages.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.05.02 17:15:00 -
[28]
I flew into an area where people are allowed to kill people.
I got killed.
Thus, Eve favors killing.
...
Negative. The logical conclusion is in fact that flying into areas where people are allowed to kill you favors getting killed.
-
You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means |
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.02 17:18:00 -
[29]
When I think about all the changes over the last 3.5 years that have made it progressively harder to pirate these threads don't half make me chuckle.
Eve is considerably safer these days, even in 0.1-0.4 than it ever was, mechanics have evolved over the years to make it far harder to effectively pirate. I'm not sure that Eve does favour those whose play style involves attacking weaker targets any more, I think rather that Eve favours those who are prepared to put the effort in and particularly those who work in a team.
The aggressor in a PvP fitted ship has the advantage over the defender in a non-PvP fitted ship for sure and so it should remain. There are however far more opportunities to escape, evade, get revenge etc. than there ever were.
CCP have given plenty of consideration to ensuring the Serengeti's wildebeest herds are not totally consumed by the lions 
Blog
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.05.02 17:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ke Jung
Originally by: Crumplecorn
I flew into an area where people are allowed to kill people.
An area of Eve where you are not allowed to kill. That sounds very interesting, please tell me more about this area.
I mean allowed in terms of repucussions, not in terms of game mechanics.
-
You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means |
Rez Valintine
Caldari
ToXiC.
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.05.02 17:25:00 -
[31]
Pirating is not easier nor favored. I find it more fun - though I do spend a large portion of my time putting ships together.
What eve does favor is team play.
Ask anyone who has ever lost a Carrier or MS.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.02 17:53:00 -
[32]
Holy smokes, just jump out of the belt the next time someone you don't know comes into system... especially if you are solo.
And stop whining on the boards. I understand you are new, but just because you lost a ship and didn't know how to defend yourself in that situation is no reason to start a thread like this. Perhaps one asking what you could have done, but not a backhanded one of this nature.
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:03:00 -
[33]
Eve is designed to be a time sink. Everything is hard to get and harder to keep, and the goal of the game is to make you spend as much time subscribed as possible without breaking the suspension of disbelief and realizing that so much of the gameplay is contrived and unfair, with the time sink goal as a purpose.
It can still be fun if you think outside the box though and manage to stay one step ahead of everyone that wants you poor. CCP included.
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Thesas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mushise
Eve does not favor piracy.
- Players get concord protection + 6 sentries at every gate with target jamming concord in .5-1.0
- Players get Sentry protection at stations and gates in .4-.1
- Players get warp to 0km option
That warp to 0km has killed piracy in so many ways. The only people getting ganked in empire are the people that are AFK and this game isn't ment to be played AFK.
Another piece of the puzzle...
In .4 to .1, there are sentry guns yet that is where most gate camping occurs.. correct?
If so then what are the sentry guns for?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.05.02 18:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Thesas
Originally by: Mushise
Eve does not favor piracy.
- Players get concord protection + 6 sentries at every gate with target jamming concord in .5-1.0
- Players get Sentry protection at stations and gates in .4-.1
- Players get warp to 0km option
That warp to 0km has killed piracy in so many ways. The only people getting ganked in empire are the people that are AFK and this game isn't ment to be played AFK.
Another piece of the puzzle...
In .4 to .1, there are sentry guns yet that is where most gate camping occurs.. correct?
If so then what are the sentry guns for?
The only gate camps I've ever seen have been in 0.0.
Also, sentry guns are the token law enforcement.
-
You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.02 20:11:00 -
[36]
ever favors the intelligent, the brave, and the ambitious
eve does not favor the dumb or plain ignorant , the cowardly, or the complacent
good luck
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Utopian Frontier
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Posted - 2007.05.02 20:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: SiJira
ever favors the intelligent, the brave, and the ambitious
eve does not favor the dumb or plain ignorant , the cowardly, or the complacent
good luck
QFT indeed
------------------
"If you ever need anything, please don't
Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Veto. Academy
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.02 20:29:00 -
[38]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/05/2007 20:27:45
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/05/2007 20:25:56
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Actually, to answer your actual question. Yes, the game mechanics in Eve are pirate-centric. This is especially true in lowsec (.4-.1) systems. Now there will be many flames about this but truth is that if your doing anything that is not combat related, then pirates always have the advantage. Even in highsec, pirates have the advantage. Why? there are several reason but the main ones.
1. Securty Standing - The pirates dont care if they loose security standing, but the builder or miner must care or they take a hit in doing economic pvp. This is also why in lowsec, the pirate will get the first shot.
2. Alts - With the use of alts, the pirates dont have to worry about getting into highsec to sell or buy, they just send an alt. Alts also ruin alot of professions and player interactions but it is too late now to do anything.
3. Risk vs Reward - pretty much there is none for pirates. Thier ships are insured so they are only out the cost of the modules. They get to initiate the ganking since the non-pirate would take a loss for starting a fight.
Till some of these issues are addressed, then yeah, the pirates have all the advantages and few disavantages.
This is not a flame-but an alternative viewpoint as I found your authoritative response to the OP lacking the full story. I'll just touch on your points as you have numbered them (I am not addressing hi-sec issues here as I remain blissfully unaware of them beyond getting caught being inattentive a couple of times by Privateers prior to my recent EvE-career change:
1-Yep....I absolutely could care less about my sec status. But the pirate will usually get the first shot anyway as they are doing the hunting. If I don't screw it up the first indication that you are in trouble is the blinky-red square landing on you out of the black. On the other hand my blinky red status means you can attempt to kill me on sight with NO sec hit at anytime to YOU!
2-Alts...a mixed bag. Bear in mind that losec markets are generally a ripoff or unstocked a shopping/market/trade "colleague" is virtually a requirement. Mind you-I run the same gank risk as anyone else when on my alt. I fail to see how this differs from 0.0 alliance inhabitants who have buckets of alts just for shopping, producing overpriced mods/T2 ships, haulage, covops/dictor and yes--even pirate alts  .
3-You are dead wrong here mate. You must not fly T2 ships or you would know that they are not insurable. As an example losing a fully T2 fitted Jaguar AF probably runs close to 20-30 million isk with something like a 1 mill payout max. I am out to take YOUR stuff AND survive...which means always taking out the best useful survivable hull I can to maximize my chances of scoring (and all you AF haters...ships and mods section is over------->thataway  ).
Piracy is hard work...fun...but hard. Potential "clients" have local, scanner, map, WTZ, gate guns, corp-mates, anti-pirates, blobs, and a zillion other ways to avoid pirates. The good pirates (and I'm not good...yet. The transition from 0.0 warrior to pirate is a tough learning curve) rely on skill, determination, risk management, patience, and even diplomacy (ransom attempts).
Anyway...thats my two isk FWIW. And should you happen to meet myself or my colleagues in less than fortunate circumstances I urge you to take my CEO's advice and "Pay The Man"  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.02 20:35:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Soporo on 02/05/2007 20:32:07
EVE favors the agressor, the scammer, the thief, the spy, the liar and cheat and all things meta.
Once you have figured that out, life becomes a bit easier here. Paranoia is healthy.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.02 21:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Soporo
Edited by: Soporo on 02/05/2007 20:32:07
EVE favors the agressor, the scammer, the thief, the spy, the liar and cheat and all things meta.
Once you have figured that out, life becomes a bit easier here. Paranoia is healthy.
i disagree
agress the wrong person and eve shows you how its an MMO indeed
paranoia is not healthy because many investments are what keep some pvp people basically getting free isk and some enterprising industrialists being able to cover all startup costs with nothing but a promise
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:24:00 -
[41]
the "bounty hunter profession" will get a boost in the future, pirates natural enemies will have a better time fighting back, also theres some stuff in the bloggs about system protectors etc..
been waiting quite a long time for bounty hunter boosts.  (ye u look at those tears CCP!!)
wait for our boosts then consider yourselfs hunted for real pirate scums! 
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4. i like pizza |
Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.02 22:27:00 -
[42]
in my opinion it does favour non wanted pvp
that means that if you're not organized, yes it favors pvp
all the GREAT games have a difficult threshold to pass. in eve it's this imo, and there are million other ones too but that one is a harsh one
so yes and no
it favors pvp by design if you are going alone
if you find a group and put effort in your playtime, then it is not
i dont think i have been a victim for long. dont get me wrong i have been a victim on EVERY single new "trend" of pirates.
But then i adapted
eh. find a way around. it works
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Thesas
Originally by: Mushise
Eve does not favor piracy.
- Players get concord protection + 6 sentries at every gate with target jamming concord in .5-1.0
- Players get Sentry protection at stations and gates in .4-.1
- Players get warp to 0km option
That warp to 0km has killed piracy in so many ways. The only people getting ganked in empire are the people that are AFK and this game isn't ment to be played AFK.
Another piece of the puzzle...
In .4 to .1, there are sentry guns yet that is where most gate camping occurs.. correct?
If so then what are the sentry guns for?
Actually, I don't see many gate camps in low sec. One, while the CONCORD turrets are destroyable, they do respawn and tend to make gatecamping more trouble than its usually worth. Some will do it, so don't think you're clear transiting low sec, but its nowhere near as common as the 0.0 gatecamps. Warp to 0 has put most of the gatecamps on the incoming traffic, instead of outgoing, so its been a lot easier to lockdown 0.0 from the unprepared by sitting on the 0.0 side of the gate and pegging people as they leave lowsec.
Lowsec pirates usually prowl the belts, or the REALLY sophisticated ones drop scanner probes and sniff out mission runners (thems few and far between for the time being, but count on an increase as the game makes exploration skills more game-critical).
High sec and midsec (0.5) systems really are about 99% PvP free. A few reasonably intelligent steps can be taken to insulate yourself from player pirate annoyances, most people are simply too lazy to want to do them. The big one is DON'T USE A ****ING JETCAN TO ROID MINE. After that, the second likeliest cause of PvP is loot theft, and in those situations, you've got to realistically assess the worth of picking the fight. Is a buncha junk loot from a high sec rat worth a fisticuffs with a bored PvP-rat? Its situational, sometimes it is, sometimes they really do just plain underestimate you and you can have some fun with them. Other times, you just roll your eyes and roll with the punches.
The #1 key to avoiding PvP in high sec if you don't want to do it is don't lose your cool. Take the long view and play smarter. Unless you've been wardecced, the only way someone can pop you in high sec is if you do something stupid and open the door to it. Research, search the forums, think about the situation. Make damned sure you know when the situation favors you, and be ready to swallow your pride and back down if it doesn't.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Actually, I don't see many gate camps in low sec. One, while the CONCORD turrets are destroyable, they do respawn and tend to make gatecamping more trouble than its usually worth.
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Kather
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:50:00 -
[45]
its a bit of give and take tbh.
having recently got my sec status below -5, i can tell you that fighting on gates is, well, a pain in the arse. what would be a fair matched fight on a gate is stacked in the non-outlaws favour due to sentries.
however, as a pirate, warping in on someone missioning or ratting is an easy kill, as (and you'll probably see lots of whines about this), pvers are not set up for pvp, but the pirate is.
in 0.0 it is different, there are no sentries to worry about. however, in this case piracy is gonna be occurring in 'enemy' space, so they'll have numbers on their side.
eve is a hard game, no doubt about it. the rules of engagement (concord, sentries, etc aren't perfect, but no set will leave everyone happy) but the rewards when something finally goes your way makes it all worthwhile, because of how hard it can be to get a break in the game.
avast, matey! Yarr old sig is too large, the maximum allowed filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Hango
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Cypren
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Posted - 2007.05.03 18:44:00 -
[46]
Personally, I have two gripes with the system as it currently stands (and am sure to **** off both pirates and carebears alike):
1.) CONCORD insta-ganking in high-sec is pretty lame. Just like in real life, the police shouldn't be able to instantly respond to crimes anywhere and kill the aggressor with 100% certainty. I have no problems with CONCORD gate-camping everywhere; if you can find a way to slip past them, more power to you. Someone with -10.0 security status should be hunted, but they shouldn't be instantly killed without any chance to survive. That said, if you slip by CONCORD at a gate, they should hunt you with narrowing scanner sweeps, forcing you to keep on the move.
However, the corollary to this is...
2.) Fixing security status is a joke. In real life, we don't let a known murderer off the hook every time he kills someone because he does a bit of community service. Sec status raises should be on a logarithmic scale proportional to lifetime criminal activity: the more evil acts you commit, the less future deeds will raise your status. This should be tracked for the character's entire lifetime and eventually lead to characters who are simply unable to ever raise their security status again. Sure, pirates will always have alts, but this gives the heavily-armed military characters serious danger any time they enter low-sec, much less high-sec. You won't have pirates who float their security rating just high enough to avoid CONCORD patrols in 0.4 while continuing their life of crime. This also fixes the pirate-hunter's dilemma people mentioned earlier in the thread by eventually forcing every habitual pirate down to a security status where they can be shot without penalty. And it makes the sec status rating mean a lot more, since it isn't so easily gamed.
I think that EVE is brilliant in its support for the "outlaw" way of life, and I fully endorse it. But I want to see outlaws living like outlaws: running from the police (rather than instantly dying whenever they appear) and outcast from civilized society.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.05.03 19:04:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Soporo
Edited by: Soporo on 02/05/2007 20:32:07
EVE favors the agressor, the scammer, the thief, the spy, the liar and cheat and all things meta.
Once you have figured that out, life becomes a bit easier here. Paranoia is healthy.
Nah. Eve favors the smart, the prepared, the wary, etc. Once you figure out that Eve isn't going to hold your hand, life becomes a bit easier.
Problem is that other MMOs and computer games have gotten people used to just turning off their brain and "enjoying" that brand of entertainment. People come to Eve and are shocked it isn't the same.
I think it's a better game that makes you think.
Chess >>> Go Fish
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Say What? |
Sc0rpion
Minmatar
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.05.03 20:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Blacklight
When I think about all the changes over the last 3.5 years that have made it progressively harder to pirate these threads don't half make me chuckle.
It makes me physically ill to agree with BoB on anything, but QFT. It used to be WAY easier to pirate, especially solo.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-friedrich Nietzsche |
Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return
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Posted - 2007.05.03 20:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cypren
CONCORD insta-ganking in high-sec is pretty lame. Just like in real life, the police shouldn't be able to instantly respond to crimes anywhere and kill the aggressor with 100% certainty. I have no problems with CONCORD gate-camping everywhere; if you can find a way to slip past them, more power to you. Someone with -10.0 security status should be hunted, but they shouldn't be instantly killed without any chance to survive. That said, if you slip by CONCORD at a gate, they should hunt you with narrowing scanner sweeps, forcing you to keep on the move.
It's kindda funny, when you're a criminal you get total war on your ass when entering high sec. When you're an enemy of one of the states you get a donut squad after you that can't even lock you before you battleship alligns and warps to the next gate.
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Dr Slice
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.05.03 21:53:00 -
[50]
If game mechanics truly favored Pirates, there would be more Pirates than non-Pirates. This is not the case. The reason this is not the case should be very clear.
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Adaris
Dark and Light inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:14:00 -
[51]
Dear OP:
Yeah kinda, you see there are many facets of Eve, most of which are PvP, and most of that is pirating. Again its all about were you go to be honest.
First of all your in a 0.4 system, which means everywhere but the gates and the station you can also attack back (first) without getting into trouble.
any player pirates are not rats. NPC pirates are rats... (its my understanding anyways lol)
* * *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2007.05.04 08:39:00 -
[52]
See your ship loss as a learning experience. Almost any ship I newly got into, I lost at least once.
There's some things you simply do not do if you want to survive, and that is
a) mining in lowsec
b) alone
c) without watching local for player pirates
d) not warping out when (discernible) pirate warps to you (ok, that wasn't the case here)
Then with the flagging thing, although the pirate will be flagged for you (and your whole corp!) after he steals from you, it might not be a good idea to shoot at him, because then he gets to shoot back with impunity. If he stole from you AND attacked you first, he WILL lose security rating, but that guy obviously made a big effort to keep it high.
My advice would be
a) Stay in high sec until you are comfortable to lose whatever you are flying in low sec, because it IS pvp-land and you will sooner or later lose it
b) Join a player corp and get some experience (not skill points)
c) Find the guy who stole from you and kill him, or pay other people to do it
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Join the Family |
Chavu
The Shadow Order
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.04 09:16:00 -
[53]
I don't think can stealing to initiate combat in low sec without a sec hit and in high sec without concord help was by design at all. It's just crafty players exploiting the system (exploits are not always negative)
Now your original question: Does the game design favor pirates? That is an interesting question.
I'm sleepy but I'm going to vote no. I've been playing for about 10 months and it is very hard to catch someone who knows what he is doing. Most pirates kill a lot of people who don't know what they are doing, hence it seems easy to both sides. With WTZ, warp core stabs, tons of warpable objects in every system, gate guns, safespots, POSs, local, logging off, cloaks, intel channels, and the way jump gates work with aggression I would say it is hard to catch people and the advantage goes with the non-pirate.
I would even go as far as to say that people steal to initiate combat because they are so bored trying to catch people and it's very annoying whenever you miss a juicy target.
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