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Howling Coyote
Schweine im Weltall
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Posted - 2007.05.06 12:13:00 -
[1]
This is my personal experience with invention, its gains, its flaws.
1) My skills:
Minmatar Encryption - 4 (currently training to 5)
Mechanic Engineering - 5
Nuclear Engineering - 4
2) Successful inventions done so far:
2.1) Ships: all 1-run BPCs, ME -4, PE -4
- Jaguar
- Muninn
- Huginn
- Vagabond
2.2) Mods: runs varied from 5 to 10, all ME -4 and PE -4
- 125, 150, 200 mm Autocannon II
- 250, 280 mm Artillery II
- 180, 220, 425 mm Autocannon II
- 650, 720 Artillery II
3) Complete failures:
- 1400mm Howitzer II
- Sabre (after the patch)
4) Base items and Decrytors used:
- Never used Decryptors (see later why)
- Base items for the guns were standard tech I guns through various named ones up to ¦scout¦versions.
5) Success rate
5.1) Mods
My current success rate is at about 75% (1 out of 4 to 5 jobs fails). This is with the use of base items. I was not able to determine a difference between the quality of the used item but it drastically increases the chances of a successful run. Not using a base item lowered success rate to below 50 %.
5.2) Ships
Success rate is currently at about 25% or lower with a slightly higher possibility for frigs than for cruisers but this could be just an impression.
6) BPCs: input to output
I used various copies, as well for the ships as with the guns. They varied from unresearched to ME100/PE60. Also used 1-run up to max-run copies.
6.1) ME/PE
all successful copies had ME -4 and PE -4, no matter what BPC was used
6.2) Runs
6.2.1) mods
Outcome BPCs varied from 1-run to 10-run depending on the used base copy. Only max-run BPCs give 10-run tech II BPCs.
6.2.2) Ships
All successful invention jobs were done with below max-run copies and lead to 1-run tech II copies. I was not able to do a succesful invention with a max-run ship BPC so far.
7) Profit
7.1) Mods
The relatively high success rate combined with the limited amount of datacores needed can give you an acceptable profit margin of about 20 to 30 % for medium sized mods if they sell for more than 3 mil per piece and for small ones at sell prices higher than 1.2 to 1.5 mil (what is usually much higher than the actual market price).
7.2) Ships
Limited success and high numbers of datacores completely screws the profit here.
Main problem are the datacores. To produce copies in numbers you need a decent supply of datacores, usually more than one person can get from his own agents. With mechanical engineering datacores currently selling for 4.5 mil and 8 needed for a cruiser invention you have to invest about 36mil in mech. datacores alone IF you are successful. At a 25 % success rate this increases to 144 mil per copy, not calculated to costs for the ship datacores, the research slots, the BPCs and your base stuff (interface, skills).
The best decryptor (Assembly Instructions) gives you 30% higher success rate and should increase your runs by 4 but costs about 50 mil what drastically lowers its usability.
8) Conclusion
Invention is worth doing for overprices mods and extremely overpriced ships like Hulks, maybe Vagas and some other hacs but they already dropped in prices. Relatively cheap invention can only be done if you can get the necessary datacores from your agents although selling them directly gives you a far better overall profit margin.
With high costs and low success rate invention is currently no real threat for tech II BPO owners. Invention had an impact on extremely overprices items and ships like Hulks, some hacs, cloaks and some large turrets but is no alternative for "normaly" prices tech II items, i.e. small and med guns.
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Starbuckzk
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.05.23 11:39:00 -
[2]
Useful information. I'm looking at trying some jobs. I've read some threads that state that using Max run BPC's should increase the number of runs that you'll get. Also using a dycrypter I think will be worth while as this will increase the chances of success and increase the number of runs.
I think the number of runs and chances would increase profitability.
Also the costs for inventing are coming down. mechanical Engineering cores are now half of what they were and so are the dycryptors.
I think the net effect of this will be to make inventing cheaper and move viable for an increasing range of items. Its still an expensive business though.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.05.23 14:16:00 -
[3]
Keep in mind that they are not finished with tweaking invention, and I would imagine many more changes down the road the market continues to fluctuate. |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.05.23 14:22:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
[...] With mechanical engineering datacores currently selling for 4.5 mil and 8 needed for a cruiser invention you have to invest about 36mil in mech. datacores alone IF you are successful[...]
2.0 - 2.5 mil would be the current price
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"Ready for your... sponge bath?" |
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Pirlouit
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.05.23 22:32:00 -
[5]
Hi,
I can understand the traders interest about invention especially making it a profitable venture. However, on the more technical side of it, i would recommend discussing it in the industry theme forum which provide much more info about it.
forum rules | email |
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Algorithm 5
Caldari
Hakata Group
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 11:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Pirlouit
Hi,
I can understand the traders interest about invention especially making it a profitable venture. However, on the more technical side of it, i would recommend discussing it in the industry theme forum which provide much more info about it.
What industry-theme forum?
That forum is about running permanent structures, not about industry in general.
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Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.05.26 11:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Algorithm 5
What industry-theme forum?
That forum is about running permanent structures, not about industry in general.
Originally by: Forum Description
Stations, Starbases and Outposts An industry-themed forum for the discussion of Player Owned Structures and Outposts. This is also the discussion channel for manufacturing, mining and research.
| All Current Tech II BPO Auctions | BMBE ISK Loans | |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.26 11:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Algorithm 5
That forum is about running permanent structures, not about industry in general.
If you read, the forum says, "An industry-themed forum for the discussion of Player Owned Structures and Outposts. This is also the discussion channel for manufacturing, mining and research." The title may sound like it is just for that purpose but the title was changed from "Industry" or some such a long time ago. So the purpose of the forum has never changed just got POS, and et al, rolled up into it as well.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM. |
Algorithm 5
Caldari
Hakata Group
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 01:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Algorithm 5
That forum is about running permanent structures, not about industry in general.
If you read, the forum says, "An industry-themed forum for the discussion of Player Owned Structures and Outposts. This is also the discussion channel for manufacturing, mining and research." The title may sound like it is just for that purpose but the title was changed from "Industry" or some such a long time ago. So the purpose of the forum has never changed just got POS, and et al, rolled up into it as well.
Mea culpa, I should actually read the descriptions some time :)
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