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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
   |
Posted - 2007.05.07 01:21:00 -
[1]
Recently, I had an idea for how peace between the Republic and the Empire could be reached on terms somewhat acceptable to both (or at least both sides' capsuleers - more on that later). I therefore offer the following outline for a peace treaty:
Article 1: The Amarr Empire shall recognise the Minmatar Republic's right to exist. The war between these nations shall hereby be concluded.
Article 2: All slaves born within the Amarr Empire shall become free Amarrian citizens, considered in the employ of their former masters as paid laborers. The details of the employment shall be negotiated between the employers and the employees. All freed slaves may choose to leave their masters and work for another individual, or even leave the Empire if they so choose.
Article 3: All slaves born beyond the Empire shall become free citizens of their homelands, and are to be repatriated if they so desire.
Article 4: A mutual free broadcasting agreement shall be established, by which the Empire may not restrict what the Republic broadcasts into Empire space. Similarly, the Republic may not restrict what the Empire broadcasts into Republic space. An exception can be made when material violates the laws of the area where it is broadcast from.
Article 5: All references to the Amarr Empire apply equally to the Ammatar Mandate.
OK, now to explain the articles:
Article 1 is the basics - peace between the Amarr and Minmatar. This is kinda vital to anything else.
Article 2 is the most important bit - slaves born in the Empire become Amarr citizens. If they are truly happy and loyal to their masters, then they should be happy as free citizens. They will gain the CHOICE to leave - they don't have to. The bit about employment is to prevent the total collapse of the Amarr economy, which would almost certainly lead to a cluster-wide recession, which would be bad.
Article 3 provides for the repatriation of captured slaves. Simple as that.
Article 4 is to allow the Amarr to continue 'saving' people, and the Minmatar to continue 'freeing' people, without violence. Basically, we get to spew propaganda into each other's territory, and the people make the decision. I included the exception so that we can't spew really offensive stuff. Note how no such agreement exists with the Federation.
Article 5 was included so I wouldn't have to add "and the Mandate" after every mention of the Empire.
Now, what is the biggest problem with this treaty? The Amarr Holders. It seems to me that the Amarrian capsuleers tend to treat their slaves well, but evidence indicates that this is not the norm. The Holders would never agree to this. They will have to be convinced.
I now open this thread to debate by loyalists from both the Empire and the Republic. Would you accept this treaty if the other side did? Can we compromise for the sake of peace and a minor victory?
____________________________________
Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 01:38:00 -
[2]
There is no war, so how can you offer a peace treaty?
Your organisation is a terrorist organisation operating outside the mandate of your government in your persecution of an illegal and unsanctioned war between your organisation and the Amarrian Empire.
Your organisation has also just broken its declared truce with the Ammatar through its outright aid in alliance with piratical fringe barbarians to save the destabilizeing terrorist infestation on the south border of the Ammatar mandate.
The only wars are the war between the Ammatar Mandate and the Rebellion, which seems to be cooling down as the Republic has swallowed its pride after the bloody defeat of its offensives by the brave Nefantir, and the wars of illegal terrorists who have abandoned the republic.
The first is already in negotiation by parties who are actually involved, and the second will see no negotiation as you have proven your inability to negotiate in good faith repeatedly in the last months.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 12:18:00 -
[3]
We agree with Article 5, only.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 12:37:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Your organisation has also just broken its declared truce with the Ammatar through its outright aid in alliance with piratical fringe barbarians to save the destabilizeing terrorist infestation on the south border of the Ammatar mandate.
The only terms of the ceasefire with Delictum 23216 were that we stop shooting Ammatar Mandate forces. We haven't shot any. If Scagga had wanted us not to pass through Derelik, he probably should have thought of making that one of the terms of the ceasefire.
Ushra'Khan, however, is one of our oldest allies. It's not like this has ever been a secret. Our political differences are something we talk about. They are not something we shoot each other over. And while they may not stand for the Republic as we do, we still have common goals we work towards, such as an end to slavery.
Their choice in allies is exactly that - their choice. These pirates have chosen to take up the banner of freedom and are trying to do some good. That, I feel, is an opportunity they should have.
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Your organisation is a terrorist organisation operating outside the mandate of your government in your persecution of an illegal and unsanctioned war between your organisation and the Amarrian Empire.
Well, you started it, Gaven dear. Our war is with PIE Inc, and is a CONCORD-sanctioned, perfectly legal war between corporate entities.
Nachshon is merely trying to posit the theoretical grounds on which a true, permanent peace between the Amarr and Minmatar could be achieved.
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
you have proven your inability to negotiate in good faith repeatedly in the last months.
When? If anything would proven our "inability to negotiate in good faith", it would have been us failing to front for our allies when they needed us. PIE have never attempted to negotiate with us, nor we with you. Which, believe me, is fine by me.
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 12:38:00 -
[5]
I would like to add that it is not possible to negotiate while your own Electus Matari hostile fleets are travelling through and operating in the Mandate and adjoining regions, supporting terrorists who have not hidden their intent to try to destabalise the Empire.
Your organisation is still actively supporting forces who are at war with us.
The forces of your organisation trangress against the very Empire you are making your avian overtures to, with a mask of innocent and obviously bereft of a vestige of sincerity.
With one hand like an unqualified physician you offer a nonsensical 'treaty' for us to swallow, which is not the product of any talks or discussions between the Mandate and rebellion. How one-sided are you? Delictum 23216 was given the impression that the Electus Matari wanted to give talks a chance. Their actions show their commitment to peace.
Take your facade back. Disengage from active hostilities and return with a plausible mindframe for peace.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 12:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Evanda Char
The only terms of the ceasefire with Delictum 23216 were that we stop shooting Ammatar Mandate forces. We haven't shot any. If Scagga had wanted us not to pass through Derelik, he probably should have thought of making that one of the terms of the ceasefire.
Perhaps you don't know that small groups of Delictum 23216 pilots have volunteered to help defend the providence border? Your forces have travelled all the way to this proxy war to continue your attempts to undermine us, while we defend our closest soil.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Casserina Leshrac
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.05.07 13:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Casserina Leshrac on 07/05/2007 13:03:17
Originally by: Nachshon
Recently, I had an idea for how peace between the Republic and the Empire could be reached on terms somewhat acceptable to both (or at least both sides' capsuleers - more on that later). I therefore offer the following outline for a peace treaty:
Article 1: The Amarr Empire shall recognise the Minmatar Republic's right to exist. The war between these nations shall hereby be concluded.
Article 2: All slaves born within the Amarr Empire shall become free Amarrian citizens, considered in the employ of their former masters as paid laborers. The details of the employment shall be negotiated between the employers and the employees. All freed slaves may choose to leave their masters and work for another individual, or even leave the Empire if they so choose.
Article 3: All slaves born beyond the Empire shall become free citizens of their homelands, and are to be repatriated if they so desire.
Article 4: A mutual free broadcasting agreement shall be established, by which the Empire may not restrict what the Republic broadcasts into Empire space. Similarly, the Republic may not restrict what the Empire broadcasts into Republic space. An exception can be made when material violates the laws of the area where it is broadcast from.
Article 5: All references to the Amarr Empire apply equally to the Ammatar Mandate.
OK, now to explain the articles:
Article 1 is the basics - peace between the Amarr and Minmatar. This is kinda vital to anything else.
Article 2 is the most important bit - slaves born in the Empire become Amarr citizens. If they are truly happy and loyal to their masters, then they should be happy as free citizens. They will gain the CHOICE to leave - they don't have to. The bit about employment is to prevent the total collapse of the Amarr economy, which would almost certainly lead to a cluster-wide recession, which would be bad.
Article 3 provides for the repatriation of captured slaves. Simple as that.
Article 4 is to allow the Amarr to continue 'saving' people, and the Minmatar to continue 'freeing' people, without violence. Basically, we get to spew propaganda into each other's territory, and the people make the decision. I included the exception so that we can't spew really offensive stuff. Note how no such agreement exists with the Federation.
Article 5 was included so I wouldn't have to add "and the Mandate" after every mention of the Empire.
Now, what is the biggest problem with this treaty? The Amarr Holders. It seems to me that the Amarrian capsuleers tend to treat their slaves well, but evidence indicates that this is not the norm. The Holders would never agree to this. They will have to be convinced.
I now open this thread to debate by loyalists from both the Empire and the Republic. Would you accept this treaty if the other side did? Can we compromise for the sake of peace and a minor victory?
You realize of course that the Empire will never accept such a treaty. It would call for them to "swallow their pride".
In addition they consider the Republic to be a "terrorist state" even though it recognized by CONCORD. Then again the Empire has a hard time recognizing CONCORD as well.
Only when the Empire is administrated by progressive thinking Amarrian (such as in the Sani Sabik) then that might occur.
Casserina
Sani Sabik Illuminati
From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 13:21:00 -
[8]
Articles 1-5 all involve the Empire giving something to the Republic, but I don't see any details of the concessions to be made by the Republic.
As such, this treaty would appear to be horribly one sided.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Luna Rossa Corporation
The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.07 13:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Articles 1-5 all involve the Empire giving something to the Republic, but I don't see any details of the concessions to be made by the Republic.
As such, this treaty would appear to be horribly one sided.
That's because the Amarrian Empire has taken far more from the Minmatar Republic than the Republic has from the Empire. You still hold a third of their people in slavery.
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 14:52:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Well, you started it, Gaven dear. Our war is with PIE Inc, and is a CONCORD-sanctioned, perfectly legal war between corporate entities.
Nachshon is merely trying to posit the theoretical grounds on which a true, permanent peace between the Amarr and Minmatar could be achieved.
Not this again. We fired upon you well after you had already committed acts of war against the Amarrian people. The war between our corporations is a result of your base treachery in committing terrorist acts in Amarrian Space while flying under the banner of peaceful republic loyalist.
As for other treachery, that you could possibly claim to be able negotiate with anyone in good faith while your forces have actively deployed through Ammatar space to aid an infestation of terrorists that are hostile to the interests of both the republic and the mandate is utterly astounding.
Even if your organization could be trusted to hold to the republic line, as there is no war between Amarr and Matari and there has not been a war between them for the last century, the entire exercise represented by this thread is utterly futile save for its illustration once again of an astounding inability to understand simple political realities by the Matari loyalists. Let your leadership talk to the Mandate and quit attempting to press ultimatums against the Amarrian people.
If you want peace, follow the Rebellion's leadership and work for it like rational beings instead of this pointless demogaugery attempting to mask the reality that you are no longer loyal to the Republic.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 15:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Your organisation is still actively supporting forces who are at war with us.
The forces of your organisation trangress against the very Empire you are making your avian overtures to, with a mask of innocence and obviously bereft of a vestige of sincerity.
First off, Nachshon is merely here positing some thought he had. He's not making peace offerings on behalf of EM, the Republic or any other agency. He's just musing out loud.
Secondly, your little minion, Robert Kauliford, in 9UY rather blew your cover that this ceasefire you proposed was anything other than an effort to stop EM defending our allies. After all, the Amarr/Ammatar bloc knew it was coming long before we did. It's probably just as well that you yourself, Scagga, left the terms rather too open-ended to preclude it.
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 15:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Evanda Char
Secondly, your little minion, Robert Kauliford, in 9UY rather blew your cover that this ceasefire you proposed was anything other than an effort to stop EM defending our allies.
The Delictum 23216 ships you claim to see in providence represent a handful of zealous volunteers who cannot tolerate Ushrakhan terrorists squatting on our soil and borderlands, making it unsafe for us to live in our own mandate.
However, Delictum 23216 has not officially intervened in this campaign at this moment, the bulk of our forces are in Derelik. These are the actions of loyal and faithful men and women defending against aggression in the environs of our closest homes.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 15:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Not this again. We fired upon you well after you had already committed acts of war against the Amarrian people.
Mides Farrad was a known abductor, and dealt in slaves snatched from asteroid colonies and settlements in Republic space. But we've already covered this at length. We can't convince you without revealing our source, and we've already established we're not going to do that.
If Scagga hadn't wanted us to deploy through Mandate space, he should have said so. But the fact is, he didn't. The terms of the ceasefire were simply that we stop shooting Delictum. We haven't engaged any mandate forces, we haven't set up forward supply bases in Derelik, we haven't sat in Sasta trying to recruit people for a resumption of war, which is a damn sight more than I can say for Scagga in Pator.
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 16:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Evanda Char
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
...The terms of the ceasefire were simply that we stop shooting Delictum. We haven't engaged any mandate forces, we haven't set up forward supply bases in Derelik, we haven't sat in Sasta trying to recruit people for a resumption of war, which is a damn sight more than I can say for Scagga in Pator.
Evanda, you're overlooking something important. The spirit of the ceasefire was to give talks a chance. The actions of the Electus Matari are provocative and contrary to progress in this respect.
As for recruitment, you're free to try and recruit Ammatar pilots in Sasta. Let's see whose ideology really addresses the true interests of the Matari people.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.07 16:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
The Delictum 23216 ships you claim to see in providence represent a handful of zealous volunteers who cannot tolerate Ushrakhan terrorists squatting on our soil and borderlands, making it unsafe for us to live in our own mandate.
However, Delictum 23216 has not officially intervened in this campaign at this moment, the bulk of our forces are in Derelik. These are the actions of loyal and faithful men and women defending against aggression in the environs of our closest homes.
9UY4-H has been Ushra'Khan territory since before Delictum was even founded. It might be near Mandate space but it is not in Mandate space. It is a sector of space that has never been owned by any sovereign nation save capsuleer corporations who choose to make their homes in lawless space.
The EM forces present in 9UY4-H were similarly volunteers. Given our political differences, intervention is not something I would order. But the fact remains that Ushra'Khan are our kin. And so volunteers happen 
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 16:23:00 -
[16]
The crux of my argument, Evanda, is that Ushra'khan forces regularly roam southern derelik and harry any pro-mandate forces that go about business there. Their presence there will be shortened with the removal of their warren in 9UY4-H.
Whether the presence of their hive predated Delictum 23216 is a fact with no relevance. They are a threat to security in the Mandate and the Empire. Active support of this simply reveals a lack of dedication to the peace-talks.
My proposal is this: Return your forces to your bases to the north of the Mandate, and we will order our volunteers to avoid the warzone.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.07 16:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Evanda, you're overlooking something important. The spirit of the ceasefire was to give talks a chance. The actions of the Electus Matari are provocative and contrary to progress in this respect.
You're attacking our allies. Yes, I'm quite aware that they aren't Republicans - we have quite a few allies who aren't. You knew this perfectly well, so don't talk to me about provocation.
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 16:30:00 -
[18]
Mutual non-involvement will extinguish the flames relit by this hiccup in providence. My offer still stands, Evanda.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nachshon
Article 1: The Amarr Empire shall recognise the Minmatar Republic's right to exist. The war between these nations shall hereby be concluded.
Article 2: All slaves born within the Amarr Empire shall become free Amarrian citizens, considered in the employ of their former masters as paid laborers. The details of the employment shall be negotiated between the employers and the employees. All freed slaves may choose to leave their masters and work for another individual, or even leave the Empire if they so choose.
Article 3: All slaves born beyond the Empire shall become free citizens of their homelands, and are to be repatriated if they so desire.
Article 4: A mutual free broadcasting agreement shall be established, by which the Empire may not restrict what the Republic broadcasts into Empire space. Similarly, the Republic may not restrict what the Empire broadcasts into Republic space. An exception can be made when material violates the laws of the area where it is broadcast from.
Article 5: All references to the Amarr Empire apply equally to the Ammatar Mandate.
Why not shorten the 5 articles into one?
"The Amarr Empire has to do whatever the Republic wants so they can keep the people who were born within Amarrian borders"
Shorter and right to the point...
What makes you believe that any Amarrian even has a single thought about your articles? As Lord Blake already stated, there are only demands and no offers.
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Casserina Leshrac
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Nachshon
Article 1: The Amarr Empire shall recognise the Minmatar Republic's right to exist. The war between these nations shall hereby be concluded.
Article 2: All slaves born within the Amarr Empire shall become free Amarrian citizens, considered in the employ of their former masters as paid laborers. The details of the employment shall be negotiated between the employers and the employees. All freed slaves may choose to leave their masters and work for another individual, or even leave the Empire if they so choose.
Article 3: All slaves born beyond the Empire shall become free citizens of their homelands, and are to be repatriated if they so desire.
Article 4: A mutual free broadcasting agreement shall be established, by which the Empire may not restrict what the Republic broadcasts into Empire space. Similarly, the Republic may not restrict what the Empire broadcasts into Republic space. An exception can be made when material violates the laws of the area where it is broadcast from.
Article 5: All references to the Amarr Empire apply equally to the Ammatar Mandate.
Why not shorten the 5 articles into one?
"The Amarr Empire has to do whatever the Republic wants so they can keep the people who were born within Amarrian borders"
Shorter and right to the point...
What makes you believe that any Amarrian even has a single thought about your articles? As Lord Blake already stated, there are only demands and no offers.
Even I have to see that point that the Empire will not bow down to another. The Republic has done enough to gains its own sovereignty. As long as the Empire freely acknowledges the Minmatar Republic instead of paying "lip-service" to CONCORD.
Casserina
Sani Sabik Illuminati
From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos. |
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Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.07 18:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
The spirit of the ceasefire was to give talks a chance.
It's starting to look like the spirit of the ceasefire, from your perspective, was to take EM out of the fight for 9UY.
-Eva-
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail |
Shern
Minmatar
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.05.07 18:43:00 -
[22]
Evanda, please listen. The Governer himself has just issued a statement saying :
ôNeither the Empire nor its mandate wanted to give opportunistic hatemongers a reason to incite violence in protest of peaceful communication.ö
Lord Scagga has said, "The spirit of the ceasefire was to give talks a chance"
I feel that your people are jeopardising the first real chance the Mandate and your rebels have had to hammer out their differences. The rebel faction at Unity are warlords, not freedom fighters and they deserve all they get from the Amarr forces moving against them.
The Unity rebels are the leaders of the hatemongers the Governer spoke of.
Leave them to their fate. They will get what they deserve.
Concentrate on the bigger picture, I plead with you, Evanda. Ask your volunteers to pull out, so we can forge a lasting peace for our divided people. |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 20:32:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 07/05/2007 20:28:39
Originally by: Evanda Char
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Not this again. We fired upon you well after you had already committed acts of war against the Amarrian people.
Mides Farrad was a known abductor, and dealt in slaves snatched from asteroid colonies and settlements in Republic space. But we've already covered this at length. We can't convince you without revealing our source, and we've already established we're not going to do that.
Your sources dont matter, though it is utterly certain given the circumstances of the last months that they were lieing.
What matters is that you actively invaded Amarrian space to destroy Amarrian shipping in an outright act of war based on your suspicions rather than by going through the proper channels.
You then proceeded to run multiple murderous slave 'liberating' raids without even the slim provocation of the first.
And you have chosen to directly aid Terrorist forces that are hostile to both the Republic, the Mandate, and the Empire.
If you are the most loyal servants of the republic avalible I feel truely sorry for the rebellion's leadership which has, at last, began to show some common sense.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Ashturi Nagano
Mantigen Quanta
Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:14:00 -
[24]
What amuses me about this exchange is the total lack of humor that people seem to have for this idea. This can only be intended as a joke, as it is quite obvious that no self-respecting government would accept terms such as this when dealing from a position of power.
I agree with the overall aims of this "idea" (I will refer to it as such for now), but the execution is somewhat like saying "And then, a rainbow will magically appear and unicorns will burst from the point where it touches the ground, healing everyone with their horns." It is a flight of fancy.
This is not a plan.
Quote:
Article 1: The Amarr Empire shall recognise the Minmatar Republic's right to exist. The war between these nations shall hereby be concluded.
Just like that? Could you be more specific about this, please?
Quote:
Article 2: All slaves born within the Amarr Empire shall become free Amarrian citizens, considered in the employ of their former masters as paid laborers. The details of the employment shall be negotiated between the employers and the employees. All freed slaves may choose to leave their masters and work for another individual, or even leave the Empire if they so choose.
Once again, not well thought through...for a variety of reasons. What is the jobless rate for low-skilled workers? High? Low? Do you think that the jobless rate might be being kept artifically low because the Empire is willing to use more people for less work? You will glut the market with people who will now have to give equal work for pay. Not only that, but there will doubtless be a gigantic shift of these workers to the Minmatar Republic. Where are the jobs going to be for them there? How are you going to transport the vast numbers of people there in the first place?
Quote:
Article 3: All slaves born beyond the Empire shall become free citizens of their homelands, and are to be repatriated if they so desire.
This is the only one that can probably be easily pulled off, as I doubt there are many current slaves that were captured. (As compared with those born into slavery, anyway)
Quote:
Article 4 is to allow the Amarr to continue 'saving' people, and the Minmatar to continue 'freeing' people, without violence.
This is just silly.
Article 5 has nothing to do with anything else here, so I will ignore it completely.
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.08 02:04:00 -
[25]
My idea was when I considered the stated reasons why the Amarr enslave people - to convert them to the Amarrian religion. I therefore imagined that with a little flexibility on their side, they could get that WITHOUT slavery - with missionizing. Sani Sabik uses missionizing to gain converts, and they are damn successful. Imagine if, rather than expending resources on acquiring and keeping slaves, the Amarr expended vast resources on missionizing.
What we give in return is that we stop trying to free slaves by force. You may think that we should do this because it's right. We think that you should free the slaves because it's right. How about we compromise?
And this is not intended as a joke (though I may have been a little optimistic about its chances). I wanted to see if there is truly a chance for peace between the Empire and the Republic.
Oh, and Shern, abandoning our allies would be political suicide. We won't (as far as I know) assist them in offensive operations. But we will help them defend their property and their space.
____________________________________
Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.08 05:19:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Sani Sabik uses missionizing to gain converts, and they are damn successful.
That may be the best joke I have heard all year.
Deus Vult!
PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Kabajashi San
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.08 17:11:00 -
[27]
From my point of view, Nachshon, there is one mistake in your thinking: You take the propaganda of the Empire as true as far as it concerns the reasons why slaves are taken. If it was indeed for missionizing there would not be a big problem to accept a treaty like this. Some diplomatic fine tuning maybe as for the part of who gets to acknowledge whom. There is not much of a difference betwen missionizing slaves or free people as you have already stated correctly .
But given the answers of the Amarr in this thread you may have realized that they are completely unwilling to even discuss such ideas. Why is that? Well, because slavery has not been invented to spread religion, it was invented for economical reasons. Slave raids are so much cheaper than having to pay your workers. Today slavery is, as you stated too, the basis of the Amarr economic system. And the Amarr know that. So there is no way on earth or in heaven they are willing to abandon slavery unless we force them to.
As I said, my point of view, rather irrelevant of course.
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.05.09 01:05:00 -
[28]
I have seen people succumb to the propaganda of the Sani Sabik.
____________________________________
Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
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