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I'm sorry but...EVE ain't THAT special.

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Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:14:00 - [31] For what a noob perspective might be worth, I think the OP is spot on. Spaceships are quite novel and that is the singular aspect that caught my interest. The rest is done quite well, but it is not unique. I find it curious to see one statement so oft repeated as to strike a chord from some cultist hymn book.. ôEve is this or Eve is thatö Eve is quite a good game yet it is more to some than to others. I see a game with a high degree of elitism which I enjoy immensely in spite of that.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:15:00 - [32] The biggest detriment other MMORPG's suffer from is lifespan. You criticise the character development and training program but fail to acknowledge by far its best feature (best thing about about the game imo). The training is ongoing, there is years of it, it adds unparalelled longevity to the game and is just balanced enough to keep you coming back for more. The rest of your post is good though and I tend to agree with much of it. (only read the op). Eve isn't the be all and end all but it could be. Although not with the current sovereignty system, ridiculous capital ship impunity & game engine.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:17:00 - [33] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/05/2007 11:14:10 Originally by: welsh wizard The biggest detriment other MMORPG's suffer from is lifespan. You criticise the character development and training program but fail to acknowledge by far its best feature (best thing about about the game imo). The training is ongoing, there is years of it, it adds unparalelled longevity to the game and is just balanced enough to keep you coming back for more. I actually like the training, and see it as a character developement(as in, the ship is the character) and can immerse myself into it. Though i do believe it's lacking in a personal sense, compared to other games. Like i said in previous post, the parts i said are "bad" are not parts i dislike
Kermis Caldari Cryo Crypt inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Li Jhakarra The subscribers of WoW are no where close to taht number! Thse are the over-all subscriptions of the game. That game has the most Bot count ever, and those are subscribers. I was a subscriber, does that mean I still play? NO. And also that game is basically split between regions, like china, America, Europe, not ONE big server liek EVE. So over-all you are only playing with 3000 players in one go, and tahts when the server is at an all time high. With eve wasnt the biggest count about 30000? Actually, you're wrong about that. The 5 mill (Or whatever it is) subs WoW has at the moment are active accounts, that have had the player online in the last week or so. I don't know exactly how Blizz counts them, but I do know it's very strict, and very acurate. I'm not sure how CCP does it though. Do they count alt accounts? Inactive accounts, etc? Also don't forget that there's EVE China too. Fact is, WoW is alot bigger than EVE.
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:22:00 - [35] Quote: Stop thinking EVE is so much more "elite" and "adult" compared to other games. EVE is, IMO, more adult and complex than pretty much any other MMOG out there. Come on now, we're going to say that EVE is easy and a cakewalk? I always hang on on the Spanish channels to help newbies and pretty much 100% of them say "wow this game is complicated". Missions aren't but I think you just keep missing the point. Complex market and politics is what really makes EVE stand over the rest, not missions, nor "character development" (What MMOG has "character development tbh?). ____ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Lynae Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Kermis Fact is, WoW is alot bigger than EVE. Yes, but not on one realm. EVE is one world, WoW are many small worlds. You will never find a single WoW realm which competes with EVEs "current players online" number. But by the way, who cares about MMO(RP)G size? The only concern should be that it is profitable to run the game. If you need 100 players for that, then every subscription above 100 players is a bonus. Noone should select a MMO(RP)G only based upon subscription numbers. I never understood why you can advertise with such numbers. ___ Originally by: Dark Shikari They're protected by shuttles carrying Templars, Amarr fighter drones used by carriers, but their tanks aren't that strong.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:35:00 - [37] Edited by: Hannobaal on 07/05/2007 11:36:04 It's funny that you try to show that Eve is not unique compared to other games and you then ignore in your comparison (on purpose or through ignorance) all the parts that make it great. Missions suck, yeah we know. That's a very minor and rather uninteresting part of Eve. We could do without it. ------------------ "If you ever need anything please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first."
Davlos Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:36:00 - [38] I understand that this was somewhat of a joke thread by the OP, but... lack of roleplay?! You must've been looking at the wrong places, mate. >_> I'm having so much that even while travelling through 0.0, I get inattentive while having random banter with someone else. Then I find myself in a hostile bubble despite the friendly neighborhood intel channel yelling about it, and stupid me not paying attention to said channel. I hardly blow up in bubble camps, but still.. Give me a poke if you want help in finding RP. >_> Otherwise.. yeah. I fled from WoW last year because I epicced out my character, visited all the raiding dungeons and ran them endlessly till my soul died. It was such a soul-crushing process. Maybe it's just me that I'm still somewhat new, and still wide-eyed when flying alongside BoB and staring at the titans that they have, or laughing my arse off when my mates land MC capships on IRON gangs. PvP is what got me into the game and makes me still in love with it... although I'll have to leave the game in four weeks, because my country is going to make me carry a rifle for it for two years. And yeah, I concur with the OP that PvE in EVE is nothing to give awards about. It's still stupidly soul-crushing, and I'll rate it even below WoW's. Let the silly missionrunners continue that tedium at their own expense - they give us shiny CNRs to scan down in lowsec and gank. ---------------

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:41:00 - [39] What is this thread all about? Someone giving away stuff? Can I have? Don't mess up my mind about EVE not being special because it IS. I never played any other MMO so it's special as hell - that's the truth! Help me help you .

Lynae Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Chribba What is this thread all about? Someone giving away stuff? Can I have? Don't mess up my mind about EVE not being special because it IS. I never played any other MMO so it's special as hell - that's the truth! I dare to say: You only play EVE because it has Veldspar! ___ Originally by: Dark Shikari They're protected by shuttles carrying Templars, Amarr fighter drones used by carriers, but their tanks aren't that strong.

Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:45:00 - [41] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/05/2007 11:41:58 Originally by: Karunel EVE is, IMO, more adult and complex than pretty much any other MMOG out there. The game, yes. The community, i think some parts less then others. It's not the "hard core" game i'm talking about that much as the "we're more grown up then you" attitudes. Originally by: Hannobaal It's funny that you try to show that Eve is not unique compared to other games and you then ignore in your comparison (or purpose or through ignorance) all the parts that make it great. Missions suck, yeah we know. That's a very minor and rather uninteresting part of Eve. We could do without it. I'm actually not trying to show that EVE is not unique, i'm actually trying to show JUST that. It's unique. Yes. It's special. Yes. But it's nothing THAT special. Originally by: Davlos I understand that this was somewhat of a joke thread by the OP, but... lack of roleplay?! Semi joke ways, true, and not as hostile an attack towards EVE as some fanbois here think Well, there's not a general lack of roleplay, just acceptance of it. If you ask "What's this football thing you keep babbling about?" people usually go "are you stupid?" or somewhere along those lines. This is ofcourse a fact and a problem in many games. WoW rp servers are a bless though, think the only place where it's forced and smilies are frowned upon. EDIT: Yes, Chribba you make EVE special in a special way
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:47:00 - [42] afaik EVE isn't dedicated towards PvE - And it is great that you can do everything with 1 character if you use the time it takes for you to learn. I agree Eve might not be 100% unique but it's the best sandbox around IMO - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:49:00 - [43] Edited by: Karunel on 07/05/2007 11:45:53 Ok, so: SPECIAL\|--------------------------------------------------------------------------\|THAT SPECIAL ^EVE Or how does it work? ____ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:54:00 - [44] Well, no ofc. Eve and all MMO's aren't identical. But I think the op is trying to say that the attitude of "Eve is in another league of its own and altogether utterly different from everything out there" isn't really very accurate. Just because it is the MMO you choose, and you feel is the best, doesn't make it so radically different as is often implied Khaldari Research Services KPA Recruiting!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:54:00 - [45] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/05/2007 11:51:11 If you need a graph: Bad MMO\|---------------------------------\|good mmo\|-----------------------------------------\|bestest ever no new MMO's ever! ^EVE/WoW/Etc Originally by: Spoon Thumb Well, no ofc. Eve and all MMO's aren't identical. But I think the op is trying to say that the attitude of "Eve is in another league of its own and altogether utterly different from everything out there" isn't really very accurate. Just because it is the MMO you choose, and you feel is the best, doesn't make it so radically different as is often implied Quite to the point.
Tahiri Yani R Rated	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:55:00 - [46] Couldn't be arsed to read it all. But the one thing that makes eve stand out imo is the open pvp. The fact that you aren't safe anywhere.
Davlos Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, there's not a general lack of roleplay, just acceptance of it. If you ask "What's this football thing you keep babbling about?" people usually go "are you stupid?" or somewhere along those lines. Well, most people in the roleplay community here are rather boxed in, elitist, snotty and don't look too kindly upon newbs. Just avoid Jericho/Star Fraction. Those clowns claim to be the best out there but they're just a combat- and attention-hungry bunch using roleplay as an excuse for it. It's unfortunate, yes, but I can happily point newbs to folks like Ashar KorAzor who live to help people out. Originally by: Sheriff Jones This is ofcourse a fact and a problem in many games. WoW rp servers are a bless though, think the only place where it's forced and smilies are frowned upon. Oh, dear. No. WoW rp servers were what I quit the bloody thing for. As if arguing over purple-texted loot was not bad enough, there's even worse nonsense like roleplay drama to deal with. WoW, having the lowest denominator of human intellect there is, is a hornet's nest of said drama. On top of that, there'll be idiots who specifically join the servers just to be idiots. You can put them on chat ignore, but they'll just prance around you naked and there's nothing you can do about it. At least I can shoot idiots in Eve. ---------------
Davlos Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:11:00 - [48] And as an aside: Chribba = King of all Carebears in any MMORPG imaginable. Chribba's existence has convinced me that there's no such separation between 'PvP-ers' and 'nub carebears', but 'Those Who Deal With Setbacks' and 'Those Who Don't', aka 'Self-Victimizers'. Because PvP-ers victimize themselves, too. ---------------
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:21:00 - [49] Edited by: Sokratesz on 07/05/2007 12:17:53 Eve is like a partner to whom you've been married for 10 years. You know their good and bad sides, you might want to try something else every once in awhile but still every night you sleep with them cause you know what you're gonna get, and you know its good. This sig is confirmed ISD-Proof«
Kostantin Mort Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:31:00 - [50] I think what makes or brakes this MMORPG is not the missions, which I grant are boring and repetitive and aren't really stimulating, but the higher degree of corporation vs. corporation involvement in this game. There aren't any pre-set sides: you make your own and the fact that such a high degree of politics is involved. Onto RP: I don't think it is exclusive at all. There are a lot of RP corps in EVE, more than you imagine and most of them do not require you to have a degree level grasp of english or any of that rubbish. Take the CVA for example: they have interacted with non-RPers in Providence since they moved down there. Another thing about EVE is that you could speak anyway you want and justify it in terms of background. Even l337 can be justified, something that is not possible in WoW. I've actually played in a PvP-RP server in WoW and I was surprised by the number of "LOL RP IDIOTS!" that people kept saying. I've actually found the EVE community to be much more welcoming of RPers, especially if your corp has a good reputation. For me, what makes EVE truly special and above and beyond WoW, is the PvP, the actual fact that you can lose ships, the fact that you can create your own content (both in 0.0, or as a pirate, or as an RP corp) and that it is the players that shape the world and politics around them. ------ Dei Gloria "God is my shield and protector!"

Sieges	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:34:00 - [51] EVE is that special. EVE is hard. EVE is unforgiving. EVE is rewarding. EVE is awesome.
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:39:00 - [52] Edited by: ForceM on 07/05/2007 12:36:27 Quote: EVE ain't that special Your point might be valid ... if you would say: EVE ain't that special FOR ME. Now for ME eve IS that special. Carry on .. nothing more to see on this thread. Me being a pessimist is a win-win situation: Either i am right .. or its even better then i said.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:44:00 - [53] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/05/2007 12:40:36 Originally by: Sieges EVE is hard. EVE is unforgiving. Also the bad sides of EVE. Originally by: ForceM Quote: EVE ain't that special Your point might be valid ... if you would say: EVE ain't that special FOR ME. Now for ME eve IS that special Yes but, it wouldn't be true if i said that. EVE isn't, when compared to others, without personal interest, that special, allthough i think it is special and really good. About the RP side, yes there is good rp going around, but the "example" given was maybe taken out of proportion. Being as it is 23000ad, talking like an old english person would be the out of character thing. Funny as it is. But like it was said, it's not about if EVE is bad or not, it's about saying that it shouldn't be glorified too much and act like EVE community is more "adult" then(as an example) WoW. 'cause if you look around, people do tend to get highhorsed and smuck about EVE. And that, is worse then being young.
Kieranda Weyland-Yutani Future Technologies Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:56:00 - [54] EvE is special in two ways: - it is not yet another fantasy MMORPG, there are others out there that weren't either (Planetside, SWG) but all of them either were cancelled or suffer from horrible management (not mentioning CoH/CoV here as they ain't SciFi per se) - player-created and driven content, and this is the big thing that does make Eve special and is one of the most wanted features for any "third generation" mmorpg that may arise in the future, hell even of any future game (what do you think keeps Warcraft3 going on battle.net - the ladder matches or the millions of custom map derivatives?) again, there were other games in the past who did this more or less successfully (UO Pre-Trammel, AC-Darkentide, Shadowbane) but none of them are still around and UO has changed way to much
Zahril Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:58:00 - [55] I agree that sometimes EVE is overhyped and agree with most of your points (though I dont really have any idea what RP community here is like) I completely disagree with this point though: Originally by: Sheriff Jones Character developement. There is none really. After you smack that driver lisence photo on your hud and jet off into space, you upgrade your ship, not your character. The character is the picture and that's about it. Skills, implants, all effect either your ship or how fast you learn new stuff for your ship. This is ofcourse because you don't do anything with your character, naturally, butthis is also which is a huge non-immersion factor. Character development is actually one of the main things why I like EVE. There are 3 main reasons for me: no limitations what you can train, no grinding to gain skills and practically "no-level cap". Also I can understand your argument from roleplaying point of view but not otherwise. Because basicly your argument seems to be that since we dont really use our avatars directly or do the skills directly apply to them but instead we use ships it somehow instantly makes character developement worse.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Sheriff Jones If you did, you would know i wasn't quitting, love the game, not leaving anywhere Can I have your stuff? Oh wait, dips on your personal hangar "to be honest it makes me wonder about the mental state of a person who would join a corp called Space Perverts and Forum warriors"
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:21:00 - [57] Originally by: Zahril Character development is actually one of the main things why I like EVE. There are 3 main reasons for me: no limitations what you can train, no grinding to gain skills and practically "no-level cap". Also I can understand your argument from roleplaying point of view but not otherwise. Because basicly your argument seems to be that since we dont really use our avatars directly or do the skills directly apply to them but instead we use ships it somehow instantly makes character developement worse. Yes that is a good part of EVE that i love too, no need to hang around in the game for hours to make next level and this and that. But, the character immersion is weaker(which was my point) then in other games. This probably will be cured(along with any RP immersion problems) with a little touch of Walk In Sstations Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Sheriff Jones If you did, you would know i wasn't quitting, love the game, not leaving anywhere Can I have your stuff? Oh wait, dips on your personal hangar Hands off the exotic dancers! Lucky it's empty honestly...i know your fingers you old perv!
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:22:00 - [58] It's fine, learn to play.
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:31:00 - [59] I have mixed feelings about the topic. I do think their are some very original things in EvE which make it special. The market system in the game rocks. I also like the training system as well. I played three years of DAOC so "leveling up a character" isn't something I really want to do anymore. True, skill training is a form of leveling but it is obviously much different than the norm. Yes missions are boring and repetitive but if you think about it, being a mission runner is actually a very complex occupation in itself because you have 5 or 6 different ways to make isk from missions and the better you get at them, the more isk you can make. However, if you are looking for deep immersion, than missions will be boring to you. If you are one of these retards who looks down on running missions because you think only pvp should be allowed, then you are a pretty ignorant individual and your opinion doesn't really matter much anyway. It always *****s me up when one of these hardcore pvper's comes to the Mission board with their tail tucked between their legs asking what is the best ship for so and so mission because they need isk to fund their pvp play style since their corp doesn't allow ratting or personal mining during times of war. The pvp in this game is unique in theory but really, it is the same sheep mentality I saw in DAOC. That being that you HAVE to grp to do it effectively. There is very little room for individual achievements in EvE pvp because everything is done in grps, in corps and alliances. People on these boards have pretty large egos considering 99% of the game population has no clue to who you are in game. When it boils down to it, you are only a simple cog in a machine called an alliance. You have no "name" or individual "presence" in EvE. Your char's name doesn't send shivers up people's spine when they see it on the overhead or in chat because you are just one ship in a fleet. Just another target in a gaggle of many really. You can agree with this or not but I think this is why games like WoW are and always will be, more popular. Most people want to be recognized in game rather than being just "so and so in BoB" But chin up, there is always the forums where you can tell everyone how great you are at the game.
Valan	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:53:00 - [60] You do have good points but looking at your post I don't see any mention of you actually playing the game. You've played part of it but not the best bit. So it's only half an opinion. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig



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