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Please help - tips on ARAZU+RAPIER combo?

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Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:35:00 - [1] A buddy of mine is in a Rapier, and I'm training into an Arazu. We would like to do some duo piracy, lowsec/0.0 roaming. While that combo technically looks KICK ASS, I've got a couple of things I'm confused about. We both have to worry about the 6s recalibration time after decloaking. In a Pilgrim, you can decloak by bumping into the victim, which usually disturbs them enough to buy you some time to get your lock. Arazu+Rapier can't do that though, because the combo is designed to fight at ~30km. So the question is: How do we go about catching people? - If we decloak while coming out of warp, we lose the element of surprise. - If we decloak when 30km from the victim, then we have to deal with 6s + <lock time> of time where the victim can run. Of course, even then, if you both warp in cloaked, you have to make sure you don't decloak each other while jockeying for position. How do you 'pro' Arazu+Rapier combo pilots do it? Ty.
Murukan Minmatar Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:38:00 - [2] a lot of times you'll be hunting bship ratters, so they won't be able to align and warp out quick enough before you can lock them. Rapier + Arazu makes a great combo as between the arazu's damps + long range scrams, and the rapier making sure it's not moving anywhere you can pretty much take on any ratting bs. I would also suggest a couple damps on the rapier that way if any back up warps in he can help out keeping everything damped to hell and back. Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:46:00 - [3] Edited by: Gretta Scott on 08/05/2007 02:43:27 Originally by: Murukan a lot of times you'll be hunting bship ratters, so they won't be able to align and warp out quick enough before you can lock them. Rapier + Arazu makes a great combo as between the arazu's damps + long range scrams, and the rapier making sure it's not moving anywhere you can pretty much take on any ratting bs. I would also suggest a couple damps on the rapier that way if any back up warps in he can help out keeping everything damped to hell and back. I see. Ratting BSes are slow, yep. If we end up taking on smaller fare (cruiser or some such), perhaps we should decloak while coming out of warp? The other thing I was considering - if a bump were to be necessary, perhaps the Arazu pilot could bump, and then MWD away to 25-30km quickly, turn on damps. By this time, the Rapier should be locking and getting dual webs on the enemy. Is this doable? (Or is another strategy recommended?) Of course I can't wait for some poor inty or vaga to get closer than 30km. I don't imagine anyone is daft enough... but... ^_^
Ecky X The Aforementioned	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:54:00 - [4] It will be about 4 seconds before they realize what's going on, so their ship needs to be able to warp within 2 seconds. The REAL problem is when they see you enter local. -----
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Ecky X The REAL problem is when they see you enter local. Yep. In my very limited experience, you enter local and bam, they safespot. And they'll sit there until you leave. In future i'm going to make sure my alt is always in a CovOps. --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.08 03:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Gretta Scott A buddy of mine is in a Rapier, and I'm training into an Arazu. We would like to do some duo piracy, lowsec/0.0 roaming. While that combo technically looks KICK ASS, I've got a couple of things I'm confused about. We both have to worry about the 6s recalibration time after decloaking. In a Pilgrim, you can decloak by bumping into the victim, which usually disturbs them enough to buy you some time to get your lock. Arazu+Rapier can't do that though, because the combo is designed to fight at ~30km. Back in the days (like, last year) My own corp (an insmother mining&security squad) did this with a three man crew (throwaway inty to do the initial lockdown), but on occasion (against battleships) the Rapier did a bump&run (bump it, get out of range asap). Usually the suprise and the general "flight" behavior gives you an edge. Experience PvPers might give you a noseburner on occasion but generally they don't. Either they won't have the locking speed and range to deal with 3-4 or more damps or they'll be unable to track you sufficiently while you get out to combat range. All you need to do is to survive for 6-9 seconds (which generally means locking + one salvo) and the Rapier has room for a few defensive mods. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:32:00 - [7] Thanks for the advice, guys. Sounds like it really isn't much of an issue. Indeed, entering local is the biggest problem, even in my experience so far, even without recons :)
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:39:00 - [8] There are rigs available specifically to decrease the "sensor recalibration" delay after decloaking, and also to increase locking speed in general. www.eveinfo.com rig database, I think they are in-game if you do a market search for the BPs but I'm at work so I can't check. Failing that, I suppose the obvious suggestion is to fit a booster to the arazu and make sure you lock before your pal turns on the webs since that would be like the insta-warp-freighter trick. Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
Yanjul Slagenhoffen Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Gretta Scott Thanks for the advice, guys. Sounds like it really isn't much of an issue. Indeed, entering local is the biggest problem, even in my experience so far, even without recons :) Fit a recon probe launcher to the rapier. Its extremely helpful..trust me :) You do need a co-pro II though and at least lvl 4 recon.
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 14:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Rigsta There are rigs available specifically to decrease the "sensor recalibration" delay after decloaking, Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. Might be worth the investment.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.08 15:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Gretta Scott Thanks for the advice, guys. Sounds like it really isn't much of an issue. As long as you disrupt their "plan A" it isn't, since once they're out of automatic and have to think about things it takes a few seconds. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Gretta Scott A buddy of mine is in a Rapier, and I'm training into an Arazu. We would like to do some duo piracy, lowsec/0.0 roaming. While that combo technically looks KICK ASS, I've got a couple of things I'm confused about. We both have to worry about the 6s recalibration time after decloaking. In a Pilgrim, you can decloak by bumping into the victim, which usually disturbs them enough to buy you some time to get your lock. Arazu+Rapier can't do that though, because the combo is designed to fight at ~30km. So the question is: How do we go about catching people? - If we decloak while coming out of warp, we lose the element of surprise. - If we decloak when 30km from the victim, then we have to deal with 6s + <lock time> of time where the victim can run. Of course, even then, if you both warp in cloaked, you have to make sure you don't decloak each other while jockeying for position. How do you 'pro' Arazu+Rapier combo pilots do it? Ty. You dont have to worry about recalibration time in a recon. Im usually able to lock targets as soon as the decloaking animation is finished. And with a sensor booster on, I can lock pretty much anything fast enough to get a scram on it, unless its already aligned, in which case you wouldnt have caught it anyway. Arzu + rapier is an awesome combo. http://www.eve-ronacorp.com RONA Corp is Recruiting
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:17:00 - [13] It sounds a bit like "if they are too stupid to run when you enter local, they are going to be too stupid to run when you decloak".
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Gretta Scott It sounds a bit like "if they are too stupid to run when you enter local, they are going to be too stupid to run when you decloak". More like "if they didnt start aligning when you entered local, they wont be able to warp away when you decloak even if they notice you immediately". Unfortunately most people safespot & cloak or at least align for warp when someone enters local. http://www.eve-ronacorp.com RONA Corp is Recruiting
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 16:50:00 - [15] Just a tip. Train for Curse instead of the arazu, and let your friend fly the huginn. Curse can easily fit a probe launcher, and the huginn will do ~300-350 dps iwth good skills. While curses bonused drone aren't too shabby either. Both should be speedfitted for roaming ganking. This is because curse can easily fit dampeners, and you don't need an arazu to dampen one target down to very low locking range. Also, most ratters will ss when they see you in local, snooping around with cloaked recon is kinda pointless unless you want to sit afk in local cloaked and wait until someone gets impatient and goes back to ratting. The key to killing much carebear stuff is very fast usage of scanner... Here is a link to a tiny movie I made a while ago about times to scan stuff down. Rapier + Arazu won't really have the damage to break a half-decent battleship sized tank in any reasonable amount of time. Let me know if you need more stuff, like setups etc... Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:17:00 - [16] Edited by: Gretta Scott on 08/05/2007 17:16:18 One of these days I'll start a game and pick the "right" race/class. Ah well, only another 24 days for Amarr cruiser 5
Kiska Myau	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:26:00 - [17] tbh, i have to dissapoint u, that any clever and even not so clever npc-er, when he will see rapier and arazu on scan.....would safespop, and look on system scan for scan probes... The only targets u would be looking r completly stupid players, with 0 experince of life in 0.0
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Kiska Myau when he will see rapier and arazu on scan.....
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Kiska Myau The only targets u would be looking r completly stupid players, with 0 experince of life in 0.0 You'd be suprised at how often you can find those in 0.0. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Kiska Myau The only targets u would be looking r completly stupid players, with 0 experince of life in 0.0 You'd be suprised at how often you can find those in 0.0. And honestly, that's really the only people that get caught in a belt anyway. Such is Eve...
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:43:00 - [21] All that matters against beltratters in 0.0 is one figure: The time you can have them scrambled in after entering local. This is determined by the following factors: 1. Speed at which player can locate target belt. a) Player skill (sometimes luck). b) Alignment speed. c) Warp seed (AU/s). 2. Speed at which player can lock down target in the belt. a) Lock Speed (Signature resolution vs Signature radius). b) Ship speed (for closing range). c) Disruptor range. Now, the best ships for this are the raptor, malediction, ares and stiletto. Then come the other inties (9au/s) and interdictors (9au/s). Now, usually, people don't speedfit cloaked ships, while arazu can compensate for speed with very good scrambling range upon entry to belt, it'll most likely align slower for warp than for example a speedfitted curse, not to mention that it must warp into the belt uncloaked to not incur the recalibration penalty, which kinda kills the entire point of using the cloak in the first place. Speedfitted lachesis would be probably pretty neat, but curse is better because it has both nos and damps. So generally, from the very moment you jump into local, it's you against the clock, the faster you can have your target possibly scrambled with your ship the more kills on beltratters you will get. Also, regarding cloak, you don't really need a cloak if you go fairly fast (3km/s+) and can always move back to the gate and warp off on the other side. Not to mention the fact that both of the cloaking recons would need MWD anyway, unless they want to die terribly every time the jump into a bubble. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Kiska Myau The only targets u would be looking r completly stupid players, with 0 experince of life in 0.0 You'd be suprised at how often you can find those in 0.0. QFT 100's if not 1000's of players get popped everyday while NPCing.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:47:00 - [23] Also regarding the "stupid people" comment. I agree, you will only kill stupid (or not paying attention) ratters. There's hardly any way you will scramble anyone in a belt in below 20 seconds after entering local, which with the new "standings in local" is plenty of time for them to verify you as neutral and warp out. However, that's where the time comes in, if said ratter checks local every minute, then with one ship it might have taken you 70 seconds to get him scrambled and with another 50 seconds. In the latter case you might have had him scrambled, while in the former case he most likely would have warped out. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Gretta Scott	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:47:00 - [24] Yeah, I understand. I was excited for a bit about the Arazu+Rapier based on a couple of things: - Escape mechanism - "Cool" factor I was a fool to hope, tbh.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Susan Acid QFT 100's if not 1000's of players get popped everyday while NPCing. However some of those deaths arn't exactly due to "having no clue". I can't count the number of times my old character got popped while ratting because a bunch of hostiles (pretty much every non-blue in the region) jumped in while I was scrambled by NPC 'ceptors. Then there isn't much you can do except gun for the scramblers and hope you get them before the much more deadly pod-pilot hostiles get in range. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 17:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Ryysa on 08/05/2007 17:50:25 Hehe, sorry to burst your bubble, but escape factor on a 3km/s+ ship (my curse and hugin are over 5k/s in gang), is a huge lot better than that of a cloaking ship going 1k/s. Since, if you get locked, you're kinda screwed with a cloaking ship, while with a speedfitted ship you can just mwd out, if you get blobbed while fighting and perhaps pick off some of their tacklers as they come after you. As for the coolness factor, well... for me "holy **** that curse is going 6km/s!!!!" is cool enough Oh and regarding the above comment... So true... I've killed a huge lot of people ratting who I normally would have never gotten, since they noticed me in local instantly but were scrambled by npc rats and couldn't warp out. It's rather funny I think :) Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Ryysa Oh and regarding the above comment... So true... I've killed a huge lot of people ratting who I normally would have never gotten, since they noticed me in local instantly but were scrambled by npc rats and couldn't warp out. It's rather funny I think :) However it's gone the other way too. There are plenty of stupid pirates as well. How anyone can fall for the "Oh noes. I'm in my super-plated Apoc and scrambled in a belt by a lone npc interceptor and those 4 people in local are totally unrelated to me. Totally. Please don't kill me, it's so unfair. Why won't anyone in the system help me" trap is beyond me, but strangely enough it's one of the more successful methods. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 18:20:00 - [28] Edited by: Ryysa on 08/05/2007 18:16:45 Oh btw, regarding your earlier post... When you said there is nothing you can do... well... that's not quite entirely true. You see, NPC's will give you a 2 minute aggression timer. So you can just log off, and hope that they don't find and kill you within 2 minutes. Lame and sad, I know, but I felt like pointing it out. Guide to EW - Killboard Mirroring tool
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Kiska Myau tbh, i have to dissapoint u, that any clever and even not so clever npc-er, when he will see rapier and arazu on scan.....would safespop, and look on system scan for scan probes... The only targets u would be looking r completly stupid players, with 0 experince of life in 0.0 So you are assuming the NPCer will be clever, but the recon pilots wont be smart enough to remember to bring their covert ops cloaks ? http://www.eve-ronacorp.com RONA Corp is Recruiting
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.08 19:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Ryysa Also, regarding cloak, you don't really need a cloak if you go fairly fast (3km/s+) and can always move back to the gate and warp off on the other side. Not to mention the fact that both of the cloaking recons would need MWD anyway, unless they want to die terribly every time the jump into a bubble. Ive flown the Arazu since they came out. The only time I ever put an MWD on one was when traveling back before warp to 0. Ive jumped into literally dozens of bubble camps. Ive only been decloaked 1 time before I could exit bubble and warp away, and that time they didnt get me as they decloaked me right as I exited the bubble. Im sure there are people who could say theyve been wtfpwned a zillion times in bubbles, but you cant make absolute claims. http://www.eve-ronacorp.com RONA Corp is Recruiting

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