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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.03 22:25:00 -
[1]
Ok, so experienced players know how to not fall for scams, but who cares, experienced players can take the loss anyways. Newbies are likely to quit the game if they get scammed out of the money for their first cruiser. This is bad for everyone in eve (even for the scammers in the long run).
Here are some of my suggestions for the devs.
1. Make it so only repackaged goods can be traded OR show ship type not ship name in trade window.
2. Introduce a delay so there can't be bait and switch while trading.
3. Add warning when buying above a certain percentage of market price (right now it only does it for selling).
4. Destroy all BPC 0's. There's no point.
If CCP cares about retaining new players they'll probably fix some of these design flaws (ok the first two involve severe flaws, the second two would be nice sa***uards). If you're a scammer and are gonna flame me, save it. You can try to rationalize that people that get scammed and leave wouldn't have anything good to bring to the game, but the truth is that there is a pretty steep learning curve in this game and people taking advantage of bad designs won't really help any.
Thanks.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.01.03 22:48:00 -
[2]
Hear hear.
Just because it's the mark's own fault for falling for a scam, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something to make it harder for the crooks to scam him.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Pr1vate Ryan
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Posted - 2004.01.03 23:03:00 -
[3]
Totally agree 100%
I do think a warning on the market would be a great idea if you were buying over the average price, just like you get when your selling.
I'd even go as far as banning the scammers (or at least a warning). Like's been said it's normally the people that carn't afford the loss, are those that fall for the scams.
People trying to sell thorax's for 80 or 90mil on escrow by advertising it as a Tech II is utter Bulls**t, and is outright cheating as far as i'm concerned.
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Kareal
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Posted - 2004.01.03 23:18:00 -
[4]
i agree as well
This is why I dont buy Cruisers and Battleships from anyone except through corp mates
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2004.01.03 23:56:00 -
[5]
The escrow scams are embarrassingly pathetic. Probably why they use alts I guess.
Tech II thorax was retarded, the science books for 9m and 29m as well.
Infinity
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Skaz
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Posted - 2004.01.04 03:45:00 -
[6]
I'm just wondering why those 0 run BPCs aren't destroyed...
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Ooke
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Posted - 2004.01.04 05:01:00 -
[7]
I wonder why bp's cannot be IDed in escrow or in the market...
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Ganja
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Posted - 2004.01.04 05:21:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
The escrow scams are embarrassingly pathetic. Probably why they use alts I guess.
Tech II thorax was retarded, the science books for 9m and 29m as well.
Infinity
Yup - I use my alt "Ganja" to sell 0run bpc's for 8m because people don't know how to actually inspect the merchandise.
I'm sorry, but ALL scams can be avoided if you are just smart about it. What about the newbs? What will you do? Every game has scammers.. its apart of the game. There are no design flaws if the scam itself can be avoided.
The game isn't flawed, the victims are.
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2004.01.04 05:50:00 -
[9]
Quote:
The game isn't flawed, the victims are.
the fact you can make a 0-run bpc is a flaw...you buffoon
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Ganja
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Posted - 2004.01.04 05:56:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Quote:
The game isn't flawed, the victims are.
the fact you can make a 0-run bpc is a flaw...you buffoon
hmm.. your name reminds me of a guy named Arathmon.. hmm..
Anyways, if you buy a rice box good for 3 servings, and you run out of the rice/powder for the servings..
Do you not still have the box at your disposal that lists the instructions on how to cook the rice?
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scouting
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Posted - 2004.01.04 06:40:00 -
[11]
Quote:
if you buy a rice box good for 3 servings, and you run out of the rice/powder for the servings..
Do you not still have the box at your disposal that lists the instructions on how to cook the rice?
Confucious says 
Hilarious stuff and you play the forum clown good ganja.
You seem desperate to get your name known amongst your gaming peers, but at what expense?
your education, is it worth it.
At your age, play less, study more 
Tho you do provide me lots of laughs, i thank you for that, forest gump 
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Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.01.04 11:59:00 -
[12]
Quote:
I'm sorry, but ALL scams can be avoided if you are just smart about it. What about the newbs? What will you do? Every game has scammers.. its apart of the game. There are no design flaws if the scam itself can be avoided.
The game isn't flawed, the victims are.
I'm sure someone pointed out a little earlier .. just because it's the mark's own fault for falling for a scam, is NOT a reason why we shouldn't make it harder for people to scam him.
Oh, I remember now. It was me. 
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.04 18:17:00 -
[13]
It's the mark's own fault to an extent. It's the design's fault to another.
When you fire up a game, you put a certain amount of trust that the developers have thought of simple ways in which people will screw up while learning the ropes and smooth those over.
In this case you'd expect that just like the devs dont let you name your character "sansha's ravager," they wouldn't let a renamed ship be traded to avoid people naming Omens to Armageddons. Even the parts that help out give you a wrong sense of security (market gives you warning when you sell so you assume that the market protects you when you buy).
Once you play this game for a while and realize that certain things are less than smooth you double and triple check everything and that's fine, but the point is that new players are the most likely to get the shaft and they're also the most likely to quit after losing an amount of isk or resources that don't mean that much to you or me.
It's hard enough to get new people into this game and people in general to stay. Reasons that are harder for the dev's to tackle like balance and lack of content are one thing but fixes for some of these issues would be relatively straightforward and would have a great impact on new player's experience.
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Amin
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Posted - 2004.01.04 18:26:00 -
[14]
Quote:
2. . Introduce a delay so there can't be bait and switch while trading.
I might be wrong but im pretty sure that now u cant remove anything once to put it into a trade window. Only way to remove is to cancel the trade. So that will fix that problem.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
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Arms Merchant
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Posted - 2004.01.04 18:50:00 -
[15]
Scams and theft are part of the game. Your just a carebear who is afraid of losing his pennies. Its a harsh universe out there and these newbies shouldnt be doing stuff until they can afford the price. Dont change a thing.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.01.04 19:54:00 -
[16]
muta sumi poika....
mita sina sanoa
ei sa ola ilkea ihmisile eika elaimile
hujaminen on varin !
 
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.04 20:09:00 -
[17]
So, I'm a carebear for wanting to protect new players from bad design? C'mon man, scams in real life take a lot of skill.
It's not like you buy a car and some scammer puts a zero in a box that says how many cars you're getting and you're screwed. Real confidence schemes in eve involving people handing over minerals or cash before getting a ship, do not exploit weaknesses in the game mechanics.
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Tha miner
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Posted - 2004.01.04 21:20:00 -
[18]
Quote:
I wonder why bp's cannot be IDed in escrow or in the market...
???
are u asking about the amount of runs that is still on the bpc?
Cuz u can see how many runs there is on the bpc on escrow but i aint gonna tell ya cuz u have to find it out by ourself.....
Cant belive that ppl are buying my 0-run bpc on escrow hahahahahaha lamers... |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.01.05 13:13:00 -
[19]
The problem with scams in this game and most MMOG's is that there is no risk involved in scamming people.
I know you should not compare RL with a game but I do it only to iluminate a point.
In the real world if you try to scam a person there can be reprecussions, the mark if he spots the scam can for example alert the police and have the scammer arrested (usualy the scam is illegal).
Lets for example use the person who charged $20 for etchings of a US president made in precious metals.
This man did all his dealings by mail order wich ment the buyer was given limited information. If the buyer was thorough he would be able to spot the scam but that ment going indepth on the information, most people interested simply figured it would be a neat thing to have a precious metal etching of the president and $20 was a decent price.
So what did they get?
A quarter.
A pure scam, selling quarters for $20.
(He made a bundle)
Was he lying? no.
But what happened?
The scammer was taken to court, tried to defend himself but was found guilty and forced to refund all the cash (tho most of it was already gone) and spend some time in jail.
Now then, lets compare this to EvE:
Player A gets a frigg, renames it and passes it off as a BS (extreme example I know), what can the person who wasnt paying atention do?
He was promised a battleship but got a cruiser.
NOTHING!
What does CCP reply?
Be more careful next time.
In short:
If you wish for there to be scamming and theft in the game make sure there are ways to deal with the thives besides vigilantism OR make vigilantism legal.
Personaly I think most of Teeth's ideas are good, especially the removal of 0 run BP copies, I still have my old 0 run tempest BP on a wall in my hangar not being able to throw it out but I will never sell it as anything other than a 0 run BP copy (I think im vainly hoping it will become 1 run again :)
Back when I built my tempest I told my friends imediately after noticing it remained that this is a bad thing, scamming with this item will be
easy, I hope CCP removes them.
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JaiMaster
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Posted - 2004.01.05 13:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: JaiMaster on 05/01/2004 13:56:49
Ganja wrote
Quote:
Im a tard, im a tard, im a tard tard tard.
its ok to steal candy from kids. its their fault for being little kids. stupid kids.
what a retarded way to justify something that is just half a step ahead of cheating.
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Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end...
Your end.
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