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Jenn aSide
shinigami miners
ChaosTheory.
15757
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Posted - 2017.05.01 15:37:32 -
[31] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:
1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec.
2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard.
Knew it, welcome to high sec complaint thread number 4,612,492.
Next month makes 10 years I played EVE, and I've played off and on in high sec, and even now use high sec to move stuff around. My ganking 'bill' so far has been exalt 2 shuttles and one implantable pod.
If you've lost 2 actual ships to ganks in 70 days it means 2 things: #1 you are doing something really really wrong and #2 you are failing to learn from your mistakes. Insurance is the least of your concerns, you shouldn't NEED insurance at all. Fix those 2 and you fix your overall enjoyment of the game.
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1595
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Posted - 2017.05.01 16:03:02 -
[32] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose." The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. 1. Suicide gankers get no insurance. Insurance is invalidated by CONCORD. 2. Maybe you shouldn't move more ISK than you can make in a month around then. 1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec. 2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard.
Just looked at your killboard. Don't fly retrievers until you know what you're doing. Switch to procurers instead and focus on skilling for a t2 shield tank.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28192
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Posted - 2017.05.01 18:01:10 -
[33] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose." The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. 1. Suicide gankers get no insurance. Insurance is invalidated by CONCORD. 2. Maybe you shouldn't move more ISK than you can make in a month around then. 1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec. 2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard. Just looked at your killboard. Don't fly retrievers until you know what you're doing. Switch to procurers instead and focus on training skills for a t2 shield tank. This.
About the same price, massively harder to kill if fitted properly and has good offence for a mining ship. The downsides are a smaller ore hold so you're docking to unload more often and slightly less yield, upsides are that you probably won't be replacing it any time soon and you get to watch other people explode because they're flying retrievers.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Abstract Unknown
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2017.05.01 19:06:34 -
[34] - Quote
What I want to know is : How do Pend Insurance make any ISK at all?
Profit for an insurance company would depend on insured items not being lost, but everyone knows space is dangerous and you will lose your ship. To date I have cost Pend insurance 3,259,905 ISK; I'm sure this number would be much higher for older pilots. I find it amazing that anyone could ever exceed the 84 day contract and have to re-insure their hull.
The very fact that they pay even when you don't take out insurance is suspect.
I think it might be closer to a truth to say that Pend Insurance is subsidised by the various relevant factions to keep the wheels of industry in motion. The entities responsible for the ship and module industries have a vested interest in you being able to buy their products. They invest a fraction of their wealth in their customers, through Pend Insurance, to bolster future profits. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2912
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Posted - 2017.05.01 19:53:33 -
[35] - Quote
insurance used to be static and at one point the payout was more than what the ships were worth. and that is why insurance is the way it is now. Also tying it to market value is a very bad idea as players can manipulate that far easier than the mineral market. It also adds a risk to using t2, t3, and faction ships.
Also if you look at the sink/faucet graph players spent 4T on insurance in March, and Pend paid out 7.465 T adding a bit over 3T isk to the economy. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Mar_2017/9a_sinksfaucets.png
The system lessens the sting of a loss but does not remove it, which is more or less how it should be
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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Cade Windstalker
1499
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Posted - 2017.05.01 20:10:32 -
[36] - Quote
Abstract Unknown wrote:What I want to know is : How do Pend Insurance make any ISK at all?
Profit for an insurance company would depend on insured items not being lost, but everyone knows space is dangerous and you will lose your ship. To date I have cost Pend insurance 3,259,905 ISK; I'm sure this number would be much higher for older pilots. I find it amazing that anyone could ever exceed the 84 day contract and have to re-insure their hull.
The very fact that they pay even when you don't take out insurance is suspect.
I think it might be closer to a truth to say that Pend Insurance is subsidised by the various relevant factions to keep the wheels of industry in motion. The entities responsible for the ship and module industries have a vested interest in you being able to buy their products. They invest a fraction of their wealth in their customers, through Pend Insurance, to bolster future profits.
I'm going to take a guess and say that they're subsidized by CONCORD or something similar.
Or maybe they're just really really bad at running an Insurance Company... |
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
62
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Posted - 2017.05.01 20:18:12 -
[37] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:While i appreciate everyone replies and suggestion on how I need to change my play style or tips on how to be a target, that has nothing to do with with the in game insurance system. I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works. I should have know better to come to the forum.
The forums are what the forums are. However you can still glean some helpful advise under all the snarkieness.
Insurance is horrible. It is designed to be for reasons already stated. I stopped insuring my ships when I learned how not to lose them so easily. If the Hurricane is proving to be too much for you to lose, step down to the Stabber, Rupture or Bellicose (all fine ships, BTW). Work on skills that benefit all your ship types and they will translate into the Hurricane when you re ready for it (and can afford it). I lost my first battleship within about 20 minutes after buying it because I didn't have the skills for the modules to fly it safely. Now I honestly forget to insure my ships when I KNOW they are going on a one way trip.
In all honesty you need to figure out what you did wrong in losing those 2 ships and change tactics. Yes, I know I said what you did wrong because you know there are suicide gankers out there and you did not change things up to mitigate that risk. That's EvE in a nutshell.
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
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March rabbit
Mosquito squadron
The-Culture
2152
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Posted - 2017.05.02 06:41:45 -
[38] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Because loss is important in Eve.
That's a key design goal. If you can lose a ship without blinking, because it will be refunded, then what's the point? Why would you get the shakes? Where's the meaning?
Death is a serious business. and this is the why more people avoid pvp or any combat than goes leaping full leeroy without worry.
This is just two kinds of pvp-games. One with meaning of wins and losses and one without it. Both have rights to exist.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Shawn en Tilavine
Knights-of-Joo
0
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Posted - 2017.05.02 19:44:44 -
[39] - Quote
As a Newbro with roughly the same time in service as the OP, and a kill/killed record of about 2/15, I'll just say that I have a bit of a different perspective regarding insurance. I have a couple of ships that I insure, as I use them frequently and know the likelihood of losing them is higher. But when I buy insurance, in my mind, I sort of disassociate it from the ship. It's more a separate investment, and a guaranteed one at that. As an example, my Vexor costs me a little over 2 mil ISK to insure (platinum) and pays out close to 10 mil ISK when I get it blown up. So that 2 mil ISK expenditure resulted in a 400% ROI. Not too shabby. Now sure, it cost me more than that to replace the ship and its' modules, but that ship also netted 10's of millions in ISK while I was using it. The moral here is a good savings plan early on is your best bet to replace those losses. This takes us back to the old Golden Standard; "don't fly what you can't afford to lose", which I would amend to read "don't fly what you can't afford to replace."
One final point is that while insurance won't cover the cost of a ship you bought, it will more than cover a ship you built yourself. My first Vexor cost me a grand total of 450,000 ISK for a single run BP and about 6 hours of mining the necessary ores. So when I got jumped at the gate in Ami on the way back from Amarr, and my Vexor was sent to the "The Great Scrap Metal Continuum," my killers were rewarded with a drop worth about 14 mil ISK and I made near 10 mil ISK.
So really, it's all in how you choose to look at it. You are going to get killed in New Eden, whether you like it or not. And it will never be at a convenient time, I promise you. Embrace that fact. While I'm not a "victim blamer," I can certainly point out a mistake that I made every single time I've been killed. And with a couple of exceptions, I've not made the same mistake twice. Learn from failure and revel in the journey to "git gud."
Respectfully Submitted. |
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6445
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Posted - 2017.05.02 22:56:05 -
[40] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:I think for 25% insurance premium for the ore value of the ship is POOP! The insurance should be the market average for the ship and not the mineral average price like it is now. I don't mind the insurance not covering the modules because insurance fraud would be over the top. I would like to be able to buy another ship at the same price that my destroyed ship cost with the insurance pay out. I as far as I am concerned that 25% insurance premium needs to cover 100% market value, even if it is a tech II ship.
No insurance anywhere works like this. You always have a premium and a deductible to deter moral hazard.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6452
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Posted - 2017.05.02 23:03:41 -
[41] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Abstract Unknown wrote:What I want to know is : How do Pend Insurance make any ISK at all?
Profit for an insurance company would depend on insured items not being lost, but everyone knows space is dangerous and you will lose your ship. To date I have cost Pend insurance 3,259,905 ISK; I'm sure this number would be much higher for older pilots. I find it amazing that anyone could ever exceed the 84 day contract and have to re-insure their hull.
The very fact that they pay even when you don't take out insurance is suspect.
I think it might be closer to a truth to say that Pend Insurance is subsidised by the various relevant factions to keep the wheels of industry in motion. The entities responsible for the ship and module industries have a vested interest in you being able to buy their products. They invest a fraction of their wealth in their customers, through Pend Insurance, to bolster future profits. I'm going to take a guess and say that they're subsidized by CONCORD or something similar. Or maybe they're just really really bad at running an Insurance Company...
Heh...at least they aren't AIG.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Salt Foambreaker
Greedy Pirates
41
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Posted - 2017.05.03 17:12:34 -
[42] - Quote
At one time the price of things was much lower and insurance made more sense. Also it works better for cheap ships.
In spite of OPs shenanigans I could see them revisit this and perhaps base the policies off the actual value.
But none of the policies should cover too much, loss is the point of losing  |
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