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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.05.11 21:12:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Nyphur on 11/05/2007 21:12:21
I do have one more questions and it relates to your responses to me in this thread, which have so far turned away at least one investor. I've given you a number of options to solidify your investment-attracting potential and increase your percieved reliability, such as getting a guarantor, and you seem unwilling to explore them.
Is there some reason that you're averse to seeking a guarantor with a better reputation than yourself? Do you think your referees would decline, for example? I'm not trying to force you to do things my way but I know the investment market fairly well these days and you would get more investments and get them faster if someone more reputable were to run as guarantor.
I apologise if I'm coming across harshly, you've put a lot of effort into this and I know how frustrating it can be to put so much work into something and have people bash it. I'm not demanding information or suggesting changes for my own benefit, I'm doing them for your benefit as I am sure things would go smoother if you could take some of what I'm suggesting on board. Feel free to completely ignore me or ask me to stop posting in your thread and I will respect that. However, that other IPO you say I blew off will probably get a lot more investors due to the information they've released as a result of my questioning.
The main issue is in determining if you've put all this effort into making a legitimate IPO or whether you've put all this effort into making a scam. Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a minute that anyone would put all this effort into making a few measly billion, but as you said yourself, this IPO is really to generate credability as an investment group, and that credability could be misused.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.05.11 21:29:00 -
[32]
I took into account what you said and I have invited others to join our teamspeak and meet with our team, I have also sought people whom we have dealt with in the past to add testaments to thier dealings with our corp on the sell order. I have no interest in seeking someone else to be our garuntee, as this defeats the purpose of building trust in our corp directly. You would be trusting the other persons word not mine therefore I would have built no credability at all. I appreciate your comments and hope you consider Investing with us. If you need to feel safe about your investments please goto our website if you have teamspeak you can join our server directly through the website and Ill be happy to meet with you and introduce you to my team and answer any questions you may have directly.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.05.11 21:41:00 -
[33]
Your credability would be built by the fact you haven't scammed, a guarantor is just someone who says they trust you so much that they will pay out investors if you run off with or somehow lose their investment isk.
Good luck with your investment opportunity. I hope you prove my initial suspicions wrong, I always love to see more corps running decent investments.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Dread4Life
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Posted - 2007.05.11 22:18:00 -
[34]
Ive known Hawk for over a year now and all dealing have gone well I will personally be investing 100 mill in the next week and thats just cause im broke ..... all in all I know hes good for it....
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Roemy Schneider
Swingline LLC
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Posted - 2007.05.12 12:39:00 -
[35]
now... what to say
hawk approached me today, invited me over onto their TS and i've had the chance to listen to the plan (and the corp - pssst, still listening in ^^).
and it appears to me that they're indeed trying to gain the here required credibility with this IPO. As i posted in the thread about why there's so few IPOs these days: we investors are picky when it comes to trust - but you need to start gaining that somewhere. from what i gather, this is such a first attempt on a small scale.
as for the mechanics; there's 10% _total_ over the entire duration plus a monthly 10% - if they happen to pay back everything within one month, this would add up to 20%/month - if they stick to the 10month plan, it equals 11%/month.
personally i prefer paying off the debt on that monthly basis aswell - like ionia, a large and most of all idle pile of cash makes me cry aswell.
anyway - this would result in them delivering a monthly
350 mil pay back
350 mil monthly dividend
35 mil being that total interest spread over 10 months
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
735 mil monthly payment
judging from their activity on TS i'd estimate at least 10 (very) actives with a total of 35 players. they see the corp as provider that needs to be fed; if that wallet really is at 3+bil, their team work is better than with my "home" corp  .
however, their activities seem somewhat spread: some run missions, one scans all day, some asteroid oriented etc. : not sure how that is going to work out in null-sec; if they can switch that back and forth fast enough in these unstable political days.
the first thing on their wish list is that carrier pilot for their soon-to-be new home down south in not-so-hostile null-sec. and that's what the ipo is about. by itself, not an isk-pump.
then there's the high-sec lab pos (- extension) but i'm not sufficiently qualified to comment on that - interpolating from ricdic's' business model, though, it is doable; the current plan could be taken a lil step further. on the other hand, i can't say much about the alt situation: if everybody weasels around in null-sec, i'm nut sure who runs those ~50 jobs. but then again, 10 guys just need to start an achura on their accounts.
in the end, i'd say this is a rather small IPO: 15 guys making (more than) 49mil/month made me wonder why they start one at all and the sole purpose seems to be the reputation.
now.. noone knows what they are going to do with that reputation later on but i've decided to give it a chance just for the chance giving's sake 
"You're being very naughty..." |
Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.05.12 21:14:00 -
[36]
Thanks for joining us on the server. and meeting with the team Roemy, hopefully more of the Marketers will do the same and get a true feel of what our team is about.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.12 22:26:00 -
[37]
 Originally by: Hawkcrest
Thanks for joining us on the server. and meeting with the team Roemy, hopefully more of the Marketers will do the same and get a true feel of what our team is about.
this is the same sort of thing proton power was promoting not long ago -- get to know the people behind the offering.
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Treelox
Amarr
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.13 03:20:00 -
[38]
I too was invited to their TS, I spent a hour or so on their TS on Thursday.
Spoke not only with Hawk, but also 2 of the corps directors.
Roemy pretty much sums up my impressions of this group aswell, a couple of post above.
This current bond, is in essence a loan for them to get a carrier pilot(with carrier) that has been offered to them below market price. They could most likely swing the price without external help, within 2-3 months. They instead are going with a bond issueance(loan), so as to not screw up their liquidity for a few months, stalling other projects, and so they can pounce on this "great deal" of a carrier pilot in a timely fashion, before the offer is gone.
I most likely will not be investing in this bond. Mainly because I tend not to invest in IPO/Bonds that are heavily 0.0 based, cause im that untrusting of the harsh mistress of nulsec space. Otherwise the boys of the 81st seem able and willing, and I wish them the best of luck with their enterprise.
---Disclaimer---
Only invest what you can afford to lose, cause scat happens.
--
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.05.15 14:13:00 -
[39]
Thanks Tree for the Mention,
Im not sure if I made clear that most of our operations are in Empire space not in low/null sec. we do have access to low Sec when necessary but it isnt somthing we rely upon.
I would also Like to announce that 250 of the Bonds have been sold thus far 3250 are still available. If your confused as to how to order please send an email to Ace Youngblood stating how many Bonds you would like to buy, and the amount of the cost of the Bonds. Once this is done transfer the isk and Ace will transfer the Bonds to you next time I log him in. Ace is my Alt and CEO of the 81st Division Holdings Corp created specifically to handle all bond transactions.
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Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.05.15 14:36:00 -
[40]
503 Bonds have been sold that leaves 2997 left.
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Aralis
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.15 18:37:00 -
[41]
I've dealt with Hawkcrest on and off for well over a year now and always found him reliable. More on the battlefield than financially but I believe he's trustworthy.
As a gesture of support I'll have 500 bonds please.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.16 13:39:00 -
[42]
Now let me first say that I'm not receiving any compensation for this statement however it was solicited. Apparently shares of this ipo are not moving forward in as brisk a manner as the management would hope. As a current investor, I think I may have bought the first 100 shares, I was contacted about penning a testimonial sponsoring this ipo.
Well, in truth, I can't really do that.
It is not because I don't trust these gentlemen, not at all. I currently trust them with 100M of my isk and I have a 3.7 Billion outstanding debtload already. So, I'm doing more than trusting them at the moment... I'm out on the limb. (A small limb but still out there.)
However I did do some research and I found no reason not to invest in them other than the fact that they have little background to substantiate their endeavor. Based on the lack of distrustful findings and upon the value of Treelox's opinion I chose to invest.
Now, do I find this current stall in the ipo troubling. Of course I do just as the issuer does. I am comforted by the fact that the issuer contacted me not just for a "testimonial if you would" but also opened discussion about giving my back my stake if the ipo comes to a complete halt.
So, based on what I know at this point... the investment is still a gamble and these guys could be social engineering there way to the top. Or, they could be honest guys whose run into a speed bump on a this investment. As I see it, their current bout of concerns can be a time pressure situation, as there is a character transfer in play on this if I recall correctly, or it could be first timer jitters.
So, give these gentlemen a moment of your time and consideration. I'll put my reputation on the line just that far but not one iota further. I'm deciding to let my money sit where it is and let the dice continue to roll. After all, 100M is not that much money and who knows, maybe I'll hit it rich.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
ElweSingollo> Eve is P v P not P v GM. |
Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.05.16 14:55:00 -
[43]
Currently 1003 Bonds of the 3500 have been sold
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Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.09.04 09:22:00 -
[44]
It has been some time since the intial bond issue done on behalf of the 81st Division. Our initial Bond issue called for an investment of 3.5 billion, and we instead modified it to 1.5 billion due to the original need being reduced. Since that time the requirements of this community have been met in spades. requirement #1 was that a prominent member of the Eve community step forward to vouch for our credability. Aralis fufilled this request, and kept true to his promise to purchase 500 shares of the IPO. Shar Tegral also invested in our venture and to our surprise did a write up on our group in the forums suggesting that we have kept true to our word.
After discussions with the initial investors they agreed to stick it out with our corp and we purchased a Capital Drone Bay BPO instead with the investment Capital. Since the investment we have made regular Dividends as Promised and when late on payments have exceeded the agreed upon penalty of 5% by instead penalizing ourselves 10% thereby doubling the agreed penalty price. We borrowed 1.5 Billion and have so far paid out:
6/11 200,000,000 isk on 1,500 Shares 13% + return
7/18 165,000,000 isk on 1,500 Shares 11% return
9/04 165,000,000 isk on 1,500 Shares 11% return
9/04 165,000,000 isk on 1,500 Shares 11% return
To date dividends Paid 705,000,000 isk on 1,500,000,000
For those of you who do not understand the concept, after 10 months had you invested in our bond issue based on current disbursements you would have made after the baloon payment in the 10th month 110% on your invested capital.
Due to development 81st Division went through a change from a 35 man corporation, we moved our project into a new corporate name called the Black Aces in order to implement a high sector research POS. Now we have 90 members all dedicated to the same ideals and commitment initially made by our original 35 members. Black Aces then decided to create an Industrial Alliance called The 81st Division of Eden holding true to our background. The website is still based at 81st Division Once we have fulfilled our current obligation we may consider implementing another, but felt it necessary to make this announcement so as to update the community.
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Major Stallion
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.09.04 17:24:00 -
[45]
Hawk out of curiosity, you guys till selling shares? If you are, let me know. I've got extra money burning a hole in my wallet.
________________________________
High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker"
CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Taikun
Gallente
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hawkcrest
[Ace Youngblood will create a holding Corp called 81st Division Holdings to maintain all transactions pertaining to this Bond Issuance.
Total Number of Shares
3500
Shares Allocated for Bond Issueance
3500
What is a bond? - Bonds are long term debt sold to investors by companies.
What is a share? - A share is simply a divided-up unit of the value of a company.
When issueing bonds, you do not issues 'shares'. Unless you are creating a magical new finanical tool from la-la land.
Considering your limited knowledge of financial vehicles I remain TOTALLY adverse to giving a red cent as a potential investor.
Further more your BS statement about "in order to establish credability within the marketing community" rather than upfront admittance that you are using leaveraging debt for growth makes me chuckle to myself.
Amnyone with cash KNOWS why people borrow and it isn't a 'feel good' reputation building exercise unless they are setting you up for a big scam.
Is that what you are doing? Suckering us all in to a false sense of security in order to screw us out of billions more later?
Sometimes the truth is better spoken. You need the isk because of a shortage of cashflow for growth as the majority of your equity is tied up in long term non-liquid assets.
Was that so hard to state?
Looks like to me limited thought has gone into this from what you have presented here. That impression is never a good thing when you want access to my capital pool.
Taikun
-----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Zachariah Ombiby
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Posted - 2007.09.04 21:00:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Zachariah Ombiby on 04/09/2007 21:03:49
Originally by: Taikun
Originally by: Hawkcrest
[Ace Youngblood will create a holding Corp called 81st Division Holdings to maintain all transactions pertaining to this Bond Issuance.
Total Number of Shares
3500
Shares Allocated for Bond Issueance
3500
What is a bond? - Bonds are long term debt sold to investors by companies.
What is a share? - A share is simply a divided-up unit of the value of a company.
When issueing bonds, you do not issues 'shares'. Unless you are creating a magical new finanical tool from la-la land.
Considering your limited knowledge of financial vehicles I remain TOTALLY adverse to giving a red cent as a potential investor.
Further more your BS statement about "in order to establish credability within the marketing community" rather than upfront admittance that you are using leaveraging debt for growth makes me chuckle to myself.
Amnyone with cash KNOWS why people borrow and it isn't a 'feel good' reputation building exercise unless they are setting you up for a big scam.
Is that what you are doing? Suckering us all in to a false sense of security in order to screw us out of billions more later?
Sometimes the truth is better spoken. You need the isk because of a shortage of cashflow for growth as the majority of your equity is tied up in long term non-liquid assets.
Was that so hard to state?
Looks like to me limited thought has gone into this from what you have presented here. That impression is never a good thing when you want access to my capital pool.
Taikun
Not to insinuate that I can read with comprehension or anything; but, I'd like to quote from around the 2nd or 3rd sentence and a bit beyond, in the OP:
At first I was going to do the big IPO and seek high financing of multiple projects all at one time. After consideration and discussion with many known Investors within the Eve Markets I decided to scale back current plans and go for a more managable amount to work on individual projects, thereby allowing the market to get to know my team, and allow us to get to know you.
As for the bolded part, we know at least one of these people was Ionia.
Just pointing out that I can read.
edited: It just dawned on me, where the slippage may have occurred. For the guy I quoted - Do you realize that the OP was made back in May? |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Taikun
That impression is never a good thing when you want access to my capital pool.
Truly told; If you had invested in this issuance I would have avoided it like the plague. In fact I would have likely tried to sabotage it. Go away.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:23:00 -
[49]
Hawkcrest, I am confused by your most recent post. Are you providing a quarterly statement or are you trying to raise more capital?
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Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer |
Taikun
Gallente
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.05 05:27:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Taikun on 05/09/2007 05:28:02
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Taikun
That impression is never a good thing when you want access to my capital pool.
Truly told; If you had invested in this issuance I would have avoided it like the plague. In fact I would have likely tried to sabotage it. Go away.
Troll alert Troll alert!
Taikun
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For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.09.05 09:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Taikun
Troll alert Troll alert!
I refer you to this and concur with your statement. Troll alert indeed. These gentleman are not asking for more money just reporting on where they are with the money they've borrowed. Of course graciousness or civility has never been part of your bag of tricks so I'm not surprised you decided to go with slander and innuendo on these guys... especially where it is a: totally uncalled for and b: none of your damned business. The saddest thing of all is: Can't shut you up nor remove the poison of your words. Sad little world where little do nothing people like you can crap on any one when the whim strikes you. However there is a solution imperfect but available to firefox users. Dr Slum was kind enough to find a solution ( Linkage) that only fails when someone quotes Taikun. That is if you remember to leave Greasemonkey active. (Now corrected on my browser.)
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Taikun
Gallente
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.06 00:29:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Taikun
Troll alert Troll alert!
I refer you to this and concur with your statement. Troll alert indeed. These gentleman are not asking for more money just reporting on where they are with the money they've borrowed. Of course graciousness or civility has never been part of your bag of tricks so I'm not surprised you decided to go with slander and innuendo on these guys... especially where it is a: totally uncalled for and b: none of your damned business. The saddest thing of all is: Can't shut you up nor remove the poison of your words. Sad little world where little do nothing people like you can crap on any one when the whim strikes you. However there is a solution imperfect but available to firefox users. Dr Slum was kind enough to find a solution ( Linkage) that only fails when someone quotes Taikun. That is if you remember to leave Greasemonkey active. (Now corrected on my browser.)
Troll Alert Troll Alert!
Taikun
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For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.09.08 23:56:00 -
[53]
Taikun,
I dont know you, so i dont particulary care what you have to say. I am a man of my word and have kept my word in spades. Thats my credability, Ihave had a prominent member of the Eve community speak on my behalf as was asked as to the value of my integrity, and have had some of the members of EGSEX meet with my team via voice as well as provided my Phone number for public access should people request such. We have little to no debt in our corp, and simply wished to dabble in the eve market and build our own credability, which I belive we have begun to do. Whatever happend with your other investors is not at issue for me as I have kept my word, and so have my team. as for Terminology of the market, I am not a true investor I am a noob to this aspect of business but I have the one thing that counts....I keep my promises. So you make all the comments you like but the numbers are there and my payments are there so Ill let that speak for who i am not your comments.
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Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2007.09.09 00:22:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Hawkcrest on 09/09/2007 00:22:30
Ki Tarra I appologize it was simply a progress report to let everyone know whats going on and what has been happening. As Shar Tegral has essentially been overwatching our progress she can inform you as to the validity of my statments.
Now as to the accusation of the great almighty setup, I should mention that Black Aces would never ask for investments that were greater then the corporation net worth. as it stands we borrowed 1.5 billion isk from the eve community, this isk was used to purchase a Capital Part BPO which as all of us know is a hard Asset with a value which has increased in our possesion due to research. What this means is the value of the bond is already secured as we have already issued over 700 million in Dividends and the value of the BPO being at a minimum 1.4 Billion isk. Should we not be able to pay back the loan which would take an amazing feat to accomplish the sale of the blueprint would pay for the Bond issuance by itself.
My choice to call it a Bond as opposed to a stock offering was to differantiate the fact that the isk would be used for what i thought was necessary for the advancement of my team, not the Bond holders, though I did in fact consult the bond holders anyway prior to making the decision to move away from the original business plan, which is why i belive Shar Tegral said it was none of your business. This being said I prefer to pay off the first bond before I seek another project. Thank you for your concern however.
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Taikun
Gallente
Serenity Prime
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.09 01:50:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Taikun on 09/09/2007 01:52:34
Originally by: Hawkcrest
Taikun,
I dont know you, so i dont particulary care what you have to say. I am a man of my word and have kept my word in spades. Thats my credability, Ihave had a prominent member of the Eve community speak on my behalf as was asked as to the value of my integrity, and have had some of the members of EGSEX meet with my team via voice as well as provided my Phone number for public access should people request such. We have little to no debt in our corp, and simply wished to dabble in the eve market and build our own credability, which I belive we have begun to do. Whatever happend with your other investors is not at issue for me as I have kept my word, and so have my team. as for Terminology of the market, I am not a true investor I am a noob to this aspect of business but I have the one thing that counts....I keep my promises. So you make all the comments you like but the numbers are there and my payments are there so Ill let that speak for who i am not your comments.
The words you are looking for are "thank you Taikun" for pointing out your failings in your original post and providing a un-doctored first impression.
My feedback is a tool for your improvement should you actually be legit.
next time... take your nerw found 'credibility' and put together a proposal which doesn't reek of a childlike mind pulling the leavers.
It might actually result in you meeting your original target investment contributions.
You are welcome.
Taikun
P.S. Put your updates in a new thread... digging up old posts are subject to moderation & locks.
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For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
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