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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14901	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:32:29 - [1] - Quote Good afternoon everyone. In our recent dev blog we mentioned faction starbase industry structures in the following paragraph: Quote: There are two faction Starbase industry structures that will be receiving special attention during this time: the Thukker Component Assembly Array and the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory. These structures will eventually be replaced by new Upwell items with a transition process beginning over the summer. More details about these replacement items will be announced as we get closer to their deployment date. Well today is more details day! This thread will cover discussion on the new set of faction structure rigs that will replace the Thukker Component Assembly Array structures. For anyone not familiar with them, the existing Thukker Component Assembly Array structures are special faction versions of the Component Assembly Array starbase structures that provide an extremely strong material reduction bonus for constructing capital components and may only be anchored in Lowsec space. Since most industry has already shifted to Engineering Complexes and we are currently entering the early stages of phasing out starbase industry, we ended the manufacturing of new Thukker Component Assembly Arrays in our last release. In the upcoming June release we plan to introduce a new set of faction rigs for Upwell structures that will replace the Thukker Component Assembly Arrays. These rigs will provide an improved bonus for material reduction when constructing capital components, and will only provide their strong bonuses when fit to an Upwell structure in Lowsec space. These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec. The L and XL variants will also provide the other standard bonuses of L capital component rigs and XL structure and component rigs at normal T1 levels when in Lowsec. The build requirements for these rigs will be one built T1 rig plus some covert research tools. The BPCs for these rigs will be distributed from the same Lowsec Besieged Covert Research Facility sites that previously dropped the old Thukker starbase structure BPCs. Within these sites there is a structure called the "Thukker Component Assembly Facility" which will have a chance of dropping an object called a "Thukker Capital Component Manufacturing Technical Data Chip" and this chip can be accessed to gain one BPC (it can provide BPCs for any of the three rig sizes). Existing Thukker Component Assembly Array BPCs will be converted into these new Thukker data chips on patch day. We will also adjust the reprocessing output of the existing built Thukker Component Assembly Array to provide more materials back and provide one of the Thukker data chips for each reprocessed array. The existing Thukker Component Assembly Arrays will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the ME bonuses of the existing Thukker Component Assembly Arrays will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch. These new rigs will be available on SISI soon when we deploy the 119.6 release for testing and we encourage interested players to experiment with them there. This thread will be the place to ask questions and provide feedback on these new rigs. Thanks! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14901	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:36:49 - [2] - Quote Reserved Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

mr awesomemate Alpha Throng 0	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:58:14 - [3] - Quote 1. Will we be able to unfit T1 capital component rigs in low-sec for this? Or do we have to destroy. 2. Will there be any TE reduction? The thukker component array gave a very big one. 3. Be very careful with the droprate on these. I think they dropped about 1/10 times from besieged before and as a result there were 1000s of these very quickly. Reasonably theres probably only going to be 50-70 citadels fitting with these things in a year (due to their low-sec exclusivity). Please dont let them turn into basically useless loot as they were before. edit: also what will happen to the old thukker BPCs that were unused before they stopped working.
Tribal Trogdor Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance. 40	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:04:22 - [4] - Quote mr awesomemate wrote: 1. Will we be able to unfit T1 capital component rigs in low-sec for this? Or do we have to destroy. 2. Will there be any TE reduction? The thukker component array gave a very big one. 3. Be very careful with the droprate on these. I think they dropped about 1/10 times from besieged before and as a result there were 1000s of these very quickly. Reasonably theres probably only going to be 50-70 citadels fitting with these things in a year (due to their low-sec exclusivity). Please dont let them turn into basically useless loot as they were before. edit: also what will happen to the old thukker BPCs that were unused before they stopped working. 2. It says they'll keep the other standard bonus', on regular large rigs you get an ME bonus, so yes 3. You'll be able to reprocess the old ones and get a bpc out of them. If there are already thousands out there, then unfortunatly there will be thousands when its done :P edit: BPC's turn into the chip thingy that you can choose a bpc from (large, xl)
Kuhn Arashi SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 16	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:20:51 - [5] - Quote Is that 7.03% after the standard 1.9x effectiveness bonus for lowsec? or is this rig structured differently, like 7.03% and only in lowsec and 0x bonus for other space?
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2854	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:27:34 - [6] - Quote Does the Thukker rig have 100 calibration (T1) or 150 calibration (T2)? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Messenger Of Truth Butlerian Crusade 97	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:29:33 - [7] - Quote What about adjusting the reprocessing rate in lowsec in tandem to achieve the lowsec cap production goal of Thukker arrays/rigs? There is a big reprocessing penalty in lowsec, plus the ores/anomalies are worse in comparison to nullsec... I'm not sure that lowsec mining needs to be penalised so heavily compared to nullsec as its roughly as dangerous as nullsec for mining, but is doubly less rewarding. Lowsec reprocessing rate is halfway between highsec and nullsec. In contrast lowsec manufacturing is closer to nullsec manufacturing than to highsec manufacturing. I suggest that the lowsec reprocessing rate is brought closer to the nullsec reprocessing rate at the same time as the new thukker rigs are put in. Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related. Structure name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
Tribal Trogdor Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance. 40	Posted - 2017.05.17 17:44:25 - [8] - Quote I think it needs just a little bit more ME bonus. Its only 3% better than a T1 rigged in null. I don't think its enough since its like 11% better right now. Would be nice to see it up another 2% or so
mr awesomemate Alpha Throng 0	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:14:39 - [9] - Quote Querns wrote: Does the Thukker rig have 100 calibration (T1) or 150 calibration (T2)? 100 according to chaos leaks.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication Soldiers of TIN 446	Posted - 2017.05.18 00:09:52 - [10] - Quote Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda? Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space. Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1843	Posted - 2017.05.18 06:25:35 - [11] - Quote Petrified wrote: Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda? I do not understand, why the Hyasyoda becomes a modules and not a rig ... Modules can be removed and used again. If a structure is shot / unanchored / abandoned, the rig is lost - more or less. Keeps the demand on a higher level and makes it rare.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication Soldiers of TIN 447	Posted - 2017.05.18 08:04:19 - [12] - Quote HandelsPharmi wrote: Petrified wrote: Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda? I do not understand, why the Hyasyoda becomes a modules and not a rig ... Modules can be removed and used again. If a structure is shot / unanchored / abandoned, the rig is lost - more or less. Keeps the demand on a higher level and makes it rare. Exactly, it can work either way. So why treat them differently and not the same? Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space. Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Maphistu The Order of the Paradox The Strategic Development Group 0	Posted - 2017.05.19 17:25:05 - [13] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec. Isn't that a big nerf on the thukker which gets a 15% bonus at the moment? Or is this before applying the EC bonus to it? Also, what about the job duration??? Currently the thukker gets a 25% reduction, how does it compare to the new rig?
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1844	Posted - 2017.05.19 17:53:12 - [14] - Quote Quote: These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec. The L and XL variants will also provide the other standard bonuses of L capital component rigs and XL structure and component rigs at normal T1 levels when in Lowsec. 1. looks like a 7.03 % bonus in total. With an 90 % bonus like the other rigs, it would result in a 13,375 % and with an Engineering Complex 14.223 %. 2. the rig will get the typical T1 time bonus: M= 0 %, L/XL = 20 % *1.9 (lowsec bonus) 3. the bonus of the Capital Ship Assembly Array 2 % will be pushed by the rig up to 3.8 %
Koncordoken School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.05.20 22:12:07 - [15] - Quote So wait. If I don't currently have a Capital Component Manufacturing Rig (or more open rig slots) in my EC because Ive been using the Thukker array in as POS I now need to drop another EC just to get my Thukker CCM Rig because it's not being incorporated as a module like the Hyasyoda Lab? Not super awesome for the fuel savings if I have to drop a whole extra EC and put the manufacturing modules in that I need to make it work. How many decades before the fuel savings pay off the cost of an Azbel? Some deeper explanation of how the 7.03% is supposed to be figured into the math would be awesome. I appreciate that CCP is keeping the array in one form or another but keeping it viable would also be awesome. If the numbers get pushed to hard agaisnt the lowsec indy groups they'll just close up shop, sell what they can and go back to ratting as they wont be able to compete with the massive nullsec groups. A few % makes a huge difference in these markets.
SnoBerry Tea Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.05.21 03:02:39 - [16] - Quote I'm trying to wrap my head around how this is going to work with rigs. You reprocess 1 Thukker Array and get a widget that will make a Thukker Rig. Keeping in mind that the Thukker Array was for all Capital Components (T1 and T2) we get a wide swath of potential rigs: Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency II Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency I Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency II Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency II Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency I Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency II Thukker Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency I Thukker Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency II Thukker Standup L-Set Advanced Large Ship Manufacturing Efficiency I Thukker Standup L-Set Advanced Large Ship Manufacturing Efficiency II So to do what 1 Thukker Component Assembly Array did I would need 2 Raitarus or an Azbel pretty much dedicated to the Thukker replacement. I assume this will also mean that each reprocessed Thukker Array will only give me the ability to build 1 rig (somehow the large and medium sized rigs will take the same input materials to build?). So if for some reason I wanted to build something that required T1 and T2 cap components I would need to purchase up 4 or 2 Thukkers Arrays so I can reprocess them for the prints and bend over far for the 32 billion isk I need to invest to replace a 50 mil isk POS module. Or we could just make the thing a service module like the Hyasyoda and avoid all this and I can put it in an existing EC that has plenty of slots left.
HandelsPharmi pharmi on charbazaar 1844	Posted - 2017.05.21 14:27:28 - [17] - Quote Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I Standup L-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Efficiency I Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency I Standup XL-Set Structure and Component Manufacturing Efficiency II 5 rigs in the end...
Koncordoken School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2017.05.21 18:32:38 - [18] - Quote Thats assuming they are dropping the TE bonus from the Thukker (yes the EC has one but the point of the Thukker is to be competitive wtih nullsec groups). So what you're saying is we lose the T2 rig bonus if we want to use a Thukker? Given that there is already a bonus to ME for nullsec ECs vs lowsec how is this supposed to be competitive at all if we can only have a T1 Thukker rig?
Thunder Fenix Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2017.05.22 07:37:42 - [19] - Quote I've just tried to reprocess the thukker component assembly array on sisi in a 52% base yeld outpost with scrapmetal processing 5 toon (only thing that increses yeld of mods reprocessing afaik) for a total of 57,2% yeld.... ...the "vaucher" for the new rig is there but unrecoverable... what reprocessing yeld is needed to get it? and yes please increase bonus to lowsec industry structures: capital production is only thing that keeps lowsec worth the risk!! other thing you should definitely do is to change the industry bonus rig system into modules/services: it's almost same thing you did with "industry Teams" couple years ago: these are too specialized!! Actual industry rig system brings an absurd multiplication of structures... with all the maintenance job involved that sucks out playtime: chance it for god's sake!!
HandelsPharmi pharmi on charbazaar 1844	Posted - 2017.05.22 07:50:00 - [20] - Quote Thunder Fenix wrote: I...the "vaucher" for the new rig is there but unrecoverable... what reprocessing yeld is needed to get it? 100 % if you reprocess one single array... Take 100 and you will get 57 vouchers back. Reprocess 2 and you will get at least one single voucher.

HandelsPharmi pharmi on charbazaar 1845	Posted - 2017.05.23 20:53:00 - [21] - Quote Current "Thukker Component Assembly Array" bonus are applied to... Quote: An assembly facility where Standard and Advanced Capital Ship Components can be manufactured. I just want to ensure, that you keep in mind, that T1 and T2 Capital Components... Many players do not know, that you can lower the costs of JFs with that array as well...

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 14906	Posted - 2017.05.23 21:01:07 - [22] - Quote Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. To clarify some of the questions around the breakdown of rigs, we plan to have Thukker variations of all the Standup rigs that impact ME of capital construction components and/or advanced capital construction components. So the total list of new rigs would be: Standup M-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency Standup M-Set Thukker Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency Standup L-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Efficiency Standup L-Set Thukker Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency Standup XL-Set Thukker Structure and Component Manufacturing Efficiency The data chip will have a chance of dropping any one of the blueprints for these rigs. mr awesomemate wrote: 1. Will we be able to unfit T1 capital component rigs in low-sec for this? Or do we have to destroy. We do not plan any special removal conditions for existing rigs in connection to this change. Whenever we add new rigs players have the choice of keeping their current ones or switching at the cost of their old ones. mr awesomemate wrote: 2. Will there be any TE reduction? The thukker component array gave a very big one. The Large and XL versions of this rig will provide standard TE bonuses. The Thukker Component Array has a significant TE bonus but it's exactly the same TE bonus as a standard Component Assembly Array, not anything special for the Thukker variation. mr awesomemate wrote: 3. Be very careful with the droprate on these. I think they dropped about 1/10 times from besieged before and as a result there were 1000s of these very quickly. Reasonably theres probably only going to be 50-70 citadels fitting with these things in a year (due to their low-sec exclusivity). Please dont let them turn into basically useless loot as they were before. We do expect that the supply of these blueprints will easily be able to outstrip supply, but that's a fairly common pattern with specialized loot. Since we are converting the old BPCs to the new ones there's no realistic way to avoid market saturation. Kuhn Arashi wrote: Is that 7.03% after the standard 1.9x effectiveness bonus for lowsec? or is this rig structured differently, like 7.03% and only in lowsec and 0x bonus for other space? It's after the lowsec effectiveness bonus. Behind the scenes these rigs will have a base 3.7% ME reduction for capital parts with the standard 1.9x lowsec modifier and a 0.1x multiplier for highsec and nullsec. Querns wrote: Does the Thukker rig have 100 calibration (T1) or 150 calibration (T2)? 100, like the T1 rig. Thunder Fenix wrote: I...the "vaucher" for the new rig is there but unrecoverable... what reprocessing yeld is needed to get it? To correct this issue we have actually doubled the number of chips provided by the reprocessing of these structures. In the new version (which will be on sisi soon) with 50% or higher yield you'll always get at least one chip and it will be possible to get a few extra chips from large batches. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

SnoBerry Tea Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.05.23 23:22:54 - [23] - Quote Standup M-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency Standup L-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Efficiency Will these be added to the test server? Not currently there. CCP Fozzie wrote: It's after the lowsec effectiveness bonus. Behind the scenes these rigs will have a base 3.7% ME reduction for capital parts with the standard 1.9x lowsec modifier and a 0.1x multiplier for highsec and nullsec. So T2 rig in Null = 5.04% ME bonus Thukker rig in Low = 7.03% ME bonus 1.99% better ME in low vs 11% better with the Thukker Array? Is this also a balance pass to get lowsec shops to close up? Didn't realize lowsec was so over crowded. Shouldn't it be 8.44% base ME bonus instead of 3.7%? 8.44% x 1.9 Lowsec bonus = 16.04% which would be the correct 11% difference over nullsec the lowsec groups have been able to use to remain competitive.
HandelsPharmi pharmi on charbazaar 1845	Posted - 2017.05.24 07:19:56 - [24] - Quote please delete
Ficti0n Ultramar Independent Contracting 16	Posted - 2017.05.24 12:30:18 - [25] - Quote SnoBerry Tea wrote: Standup M-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency Standup L-Set Thukker Advanced Component Manufacturing Efficiency Will these be added to the test server? Not currently there. CCP Fozzie wrote: It's after the lowsec effectiveness bonus. Behind the scenes these rigs will have a base 3.7% ME reduction for capital parts with the standard 1.9x lowsec modifier and a 0.1x multiplier for highsec and nullsec. So T2 rig in Null = 5.04% ME bonus Thukker rig in Low = 7.03% ME bonus 1.99% better ME in low vs 11% better with the Thukker Array? Is this also a balance pass to get lowsec shops to close up? Didn't realize lowsec was so over crowded. Shouldn't it be 8.44% base ME bonus instead of 3.7%? 8.44% x 1.9 Lowsec bonus = 16.04% which would be the correct 11% difference over nullsec the lowsec groups have been able to use to remain competitive. Comparing to T2 lol. These thukker rigs cost little extra then T1 (t1 as input + some covert research tools), have a look at T2 large rigs for comparison. And last time I checked 7.03 > 5.04. How does this kill low-sec it's a buff.
HandelsPharmi pharmi on charbazaar 1845	Posted - 2017.05.24 13:51:55 - [26] - Quote Ficti0n wrote: And last time I checked 7.03 > 5.04. How does this kill low-sec it's a buff. Well it kills lowsec compared to its current situation... in past you had a bonus of 15 % compared to nullsec, WH and highsec... After the patch, the bonus will not be significant like before. The risk is the same. (We are still in lowsec.) The investment is around the same. (POS vs. EC - for the component production ONLY!) The output is lower. (A real lower bonus than before.)
SnoBerry Tea Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.05.27 16:23:50 - [27] - Quote I think we're having a hard time understanding what's going on here so here's some pretty pictures http://imgur.com/a/jbaXV Top is existing system on Tranq with Thukker Array (POS) and bottom is with the Thukker rigs in a lowsec EC. 15% bonus from Thukker Array, 8% bonus from EC/Thukker Rig. That 7% loss of bonus going to the rig adds up to approximately a 600mil isk increase in cost to build a Jump Freighter. That's almost the entire profit margin of building a JF from goo/minerals to JF (building the T1 components, then the t1 hull, then the t2 components from goo, then the JF itself). Add in the overhead of jump fuel, EC fuel, risk, etc... So this change alone will end lowsec industry for capital production and there might as well not even be a Thukker Rig in the first place if the 3.7% bonus is all we get. Can CCP please reconsider what they are doing here? The math isnt that hard.
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 655	Posted - 2017.05.29 06:19:27 - [28] - Quote SnoBerry Tea wrote: I think we're having a hard time understanding what's going on here so here's some pretty pictures http://imgur.com/a/jbaXV Top is existing system on Tranq with Thukker Array (POS) and bottom is with the Thukker rigs in a lowsec EC. 15% bonus from Thukker Array, 8% bonus from EC/Thukker Rig. That 7% loss of bonus going to the rig adds up to approximately a 600mil isk increase in cost to build a Jump Freighter. That's almost the entire profit margin of building a JF from goo/minerals to JF (building the T1 components, then the t1 hull, then the t2 components from goo, then the JF itself). Add in the overhead of jump fuel, EC fuel, risk, etc... So this change alone will end lowsec industry for capital production and there might as well not even be a Thukker Rig in the first place if the 3.7% bonus is all we get. Can CCP please reconsider what they are doing here? The math isnt that hard. so what your saying is that without that 7% bonus there is near zero profit to be made in captial manufacturing... well you shouldn't have much trouble competing with null sec then since they have even lower bonuses which according to your numbers puts null sec manufacturing at a loss. or, what is more likely to happen, is that some people will get priced out during the transition and fold up shop sure. but that will both lower demand for the moon goo, as well as capital supply. driving the prices of capitals up, and (to a lesser extend) the price of moon goo down, until, a few months from now, the profit margins will return to right about the same that they are now.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way ChaosTheory. 11	Posted - 2017.06.07 03:23:51 - [29] - Quote SnoBerry Tea wrote: So this change alone will end lowsec industry for capital production and there might as well not even be a Thukker Rig in the first place if the 3.7% bonus is all we get. Can CCP please reconsider what they are doing here? The math isnt that hard. Jump freighter inputs are not the only instances of barely cashflow positive, in this case industry made at-cost before rig bonuses. Think of insurance on T2 or faction hulls, you have a choice of utility vs aesthetic / impulse buy. Not to throw trade secrets your way so I will generalize: have you watched T2 inputs' listings for the last 3 months? Stagnation! Not only are these advanced builds getting nerfed for lowsec, the incentive to build sooner rather than later is simply not there. I agree SnoBerry, it isn't as sufficient of an improvement.
Amantus Snuff Box Snuffed Out 364	Posted - 2017.06.09 20:58:11 - [30] - Quote SnoBerry Tea wrote: I think we're having a hard time understanding what's going on here so here's some pretty pictures http://imgur.com/a/jbaXV Top is existing system on Tranq with Thukker Array (POS) and bottom is with the Thukker rigs in a lowsec EC. 15% bonus from Thukker Array, 8% bonus from EC/Thukker Rig. That 7% loss of bonus going to the rig adds up to approximately a 600mil isk increase in cost to build a Jump Freighter. That's almost the entire profit margin of building a JF from goo/minerals to JF (building the T1 components, then the t1 hull, then the t2 components from goo, then the JF itself). Add in the overhead of jump fuel, EC fuel, risk, etc... So this change alone will end lowsec industry for capital production and there might as well not even be a Thukker Rig in the first place if the 3.7% bonus is all we get. Can CCP please reconsider what they are doing here? The math isnt that hard. Agreed. I think overall, ECs are very disappointing for lowsec manufacturing. I think there needs to be more of a relative advantage as reward for building in lowsec which has the double whammy of a dense population (more dangerous AND higher taxes), but poor natural resources and a dense enough population that harvesting these resources is too dangerous for anyone to bother. Without the Thukker rigs there is zero point in building in lowsec. With the Thukker rigs at least producers can stay competitive, but the negatives of lowsec production are still there, and still big. That said, I'm not too worried about JF prices. I'm expecting build cost will go up massively (directly increased costs from reduced ME bonus as well as the impact of re-worked moon goo harvesting & reactions) no doubt about it, but I think the sale price will increase to compensate.

SnoBerry Tea Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2017.06.10 03:07:43 - [31] - Quote I don't care if they raise the ME bonus or lower it overall, the market will compensate with the general value of the ship. I am happy with how free markets handle these changes. My concern is they are nerfing the ME bonus for Lowsec builders and no proportional effect on nullsec/highsec builders. This change is a blatant nerf specifically to lowsec builders which will push more of them into null or stop building entirely. We go from a 15% ME edge to a 1-2% advantage which is substantially more difficult to justify the added challenges to building in lowsec vs null/high. In some regards lowsec industry has the worst of all the game mechanics (aside from the safety from bubbles and a slight disincentive to podding). As you said, higher population, the worst access to resources, generally just as dangerous as null as far as indu goes. That has to be offset with a profit margin to remain competitve that is being completely vaporized. I want to know why CCP specifically wants to wreck lowsec factories.
Ipushmyfingersintomyeyes State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.06.12 00:38:15 - [32] - Quote Erm. I know you probably said the Thukker bonus is to replace the regular T1 bonus but in Azbels (havnt tried Sotiyo yet) we're getting a 10.6% ME bonus from the rig. Is the Thukker bonus in addition to the existing T1 ME bonus or in place of? http://i.imgur.com/d5SNPdr.png My guess is the T1 bonus is in additon to the Thukker Bonus: 0.9297 x 0.962 = 0.89437 or 10.5628% bonus. Rounds to 10.6 If this is the case can we PLEASE keep this bonus as an addition to the T1 rig effect as this will greatly improve the rig's ability to keep lowsec competitive with manufacturing. This just needs to also work on Raitaru and Sotiyo in lowsec.
gaymeuh Eureka holding La Division Bleue 5	Posted - 2017.06.13 19:12:53 - [33] - Quote Beautiful thukker nerve, before the bonus compare to the risk was worth it but now it's so ridiculous that it's just useless. I looked at the difference on the test server and if you put the bonus of refining in dry null it is more profitable in NS ... Ipushmyfingersintomyeyes wrote: Erm. I know you probably said the Thukker bonus is to replace the regular T1 bonus but in Azbels (havnt tried Sotiyo yet) we're getting a 10.6% ME bonus from the rig. Is the Thukker bonus in addition to the existing T1 ME bonus or in place of? http://i.imgur.com/d5SNPdr.png My guess is the T1 bonus is in additon to the Thukker Bonus: 0.9297 x 0.962 = 0.89437 or 10.5628% bonus. Rounds to 10.6 If this is the case can we PLEASE keep this bonus as an addition to the T1 rig effect as this will greatly improve the rig's ability to keep lowsec competitive with manufacturing. This just needs to also work on Raitaru and Sotiyo in lowsec. you can't put one thukker rigg and one capital component rigg. just thukker or component.
klana depp Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 6	Posted - 2017.06.18 09:25:52 - [34] - Quote Ipushmyfingersintomyeyes wrote: Erm. I know you probably said the Thukker bonus is to replace the regular T1 bonus but in Azbels (havnt tried Sotiyo yet) we're getting a 10.6% ME bonus from the rig. Is the Thukker bonus in addition to the existing T1 ME bonus or in place of? http://i.imgur.com/d5SNPdr.png My guess is the T1 bonus is in additon to the Thukker Bonus: 0.9297 x 0.962 = 0.89437 or 10.5628% bonus. Rounds to 10.6 If this is the case can we PLEASE keep this bonus as an addition to the T1 rig effect as this will greatly improve the rig's ability to keep lowsec competitive with manufacturing. This just needs to also work on Raitaru and Sotiyo in lowsec. how on earth did you get that? all i can get is -1% from structure and -7% from the thukker rig. even show info says "-7.03%" on the rig after it is fitted. so thats the worst lowsec industry nerf ever? not only do you need 2 crazy expensive rigs now to cover t1capital AND jf construction; but it is also giving so much less than a simple previously-15mil thukker caa.. thanks ccp :(
klana depp Tr0pa de elite. Ghost Legion. 6	Posted - 2017.06.18 09:52:54 - [35] - Quote so to sum it up.. previously: POS module for 15-25mil that could be brought up and taken down any time without loss would cover T1 capital components and T2 capital components 15% material reduction to offset the risk of being exposed to "lowsec eve people" could be slapped onto pretty much every tower because it would only require "some fitting" now: building (L-set) rig needs T1 rig which currently costs ca 4.5b to build, plus the actual thukker bpc, plus covert tools (which are mostly irrelevant for cost) but you need 2, because suddenly basic and advanced components are split ofc if you ever want to relocate, for example because of $("-º&$/&"-º$ industrial indexes, it all goes puff because :legacy code reasons: requires a precious dedicated rig slot in your azbel.. or two. and after all this: a whopping 8% material reduction (... wtf?) note1: ccp originally said that it will probably be possible to unanchor a citadel, scoop it in a freighter, and redeploy it somewhere without losing rigs.. but then rowed back on it. thats what i am referring to note2: i understand the concept of industrial indexes and i am ok with it. but the combination of massively overpriced rigs that you cannot move ever and those indexes is what drives my anger was lowsec industry really that OP? is this an attempt to make sov in 0.0 useful again (not sure how that would work)?


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