ANY investment in EVE with out 100% collateral is just a scam waiting to happen.

I know EVE simply does not lend itself to this kind of thing so don't let it cloud your response, this is simply a thought exercise.

ANY investment in EVE with out 100% collateral is just a scam waiting to happen.

Why couldn't it work? Buyer and Seller both pay margin amounts to Reliable 3rd Party Person.

At the delivery date: Seller contracts the agreed amount of items to 3rd Party, Buyer pays the rest of amount to 3rd Party

If seller defaults, 3rd party keeps margin, buyer gets refunded, and so on if the buyer defaults.

If you want margin to be checked daily then you probably want some programming done though.

Yes, this is why some of us like to categorize risk into specific types to better discuss it. The risk you're referring to is the "inherent risk" that exists in EVE - and it's quite high. There are some things that can be done to mitigate that risk, but even then, the residual risk (inherent risk + controls = residual risk) is very high.

...but you just came to post a one-liner instead of add anything constructive or discuss risk in any meaningful way, amirite?

How would the settlement price be determined?

I presume both the buyer and seller would deposit isk with the broker as collateral? If so, the margin requirement would cover, based on current prices, a .89 isk per unit shift in price of trit. While it is unlikely that such a shift would occur, some mechanism for a margin call should exist in case it does.

Ignoring the trustworthiness of the broker/collateral holder, there is no reason it couldn't work if investors were interested.

The idea is so dumb that the obvious "one liner" must be said.

Its like some crack pot explaining his plan to fix the world when he travels back in time.

It's not that dumb, people do it all the time on Wall Street ;-)

Look a clueless noob magically appeared to prove I was right that even the most obvious bad ideas deserve to be shot down because theres a always a sucker willing to to believe.

People have been working on this stuff sans the benefit of guarantees for hundreds of years. Your myopic contemporary view has you thinking in terms of 100% collateral and absolutes as the only viable environment but history shows that this just isn't true.

. Keep in mind that while there is no guarantee that someone in EVE wonGÇÖt scam, there was no federal guarantee until 1933 in the US that a RL bank wouldn't do the same thing. You can go back even further to Florence in the 1300's during the Medici banking operations - big books filled with double entry accounting records written in pen, by hand, in the open air of a Florentine piazza, in physical possession by the banking families. No guarantees that wouldn't walk off with the cash. Same thing went for the people they loaned money to. It wasn't uncommon for a King (say, the King of France) to default on a loan...and there wasn't a damn thing anyone could do about it unless they decided to go to war with France over it. (Hint: people didn't, the banking houses just collapsed as a result)

People have been working on this stuff sans the benefit of guarantees for hundreds of years. Your myopic contemporary view has you thinking in terms of 100% collateral and absolutes as the only viable environment but history shows that this just isn't true.

It doesn't matter what time period it was, the barrier to getting a new identity and avoiding getting skull crushed is not in any way comparable between RL and EVE.

Are you actually being serious? How did people prove their identity back in the early days of banks and stock markets, circa mid/late-1400's? Fingerprints? DNA? Social Security cards? Forgery was rampant, easier than it was now, and in terms of your identity....are you really suggesting it was so hard to re-invent yourself?

To the latter point, there is a reason why we have the phrase "A pound of flesh".

Look the noobs keep on coming.

In EVE unlike real life.

-scamming is legal
-the is no physical recourse against scamming(traders can sit in a station forever)
-identities are virtual not real(you can buy a new account and transfer assets or just reroll)


EVE is NOTHING like reality has ever been in that their is by design NO accountability for fraud. In real life there are no absolute guarantees but there are many mechanisms to at least make fraud a hazardous endeavor.

This whole history thing and general concepts of the way the world worked befor the 90s are mystery to you arent they.

I'm looking at the last 500 years of banking, bonds, and stock markets. What are you looking at?

Perhaps we are looking at the same history. The difference is that either you dont understand it or that you are simply falsifying it.

Since the dawn of laws - fraud has been illegal. People tried to do it and the legal system fought back.
IN EVE FRAUD IS LEGAL.l.

Since the dawn of time people who made loans and investments have kept tabs on their clients. Many try to run but they are also chased.
This is impossible in EVE.

The 2 key forces in all of history that have have made investment(outside of close friends) viable do not exist in EVE.

You are clueless noob who doesnt understand that this is more important that everything else with respect to investment.

Trust and identity are easily fixed by escalating up to the next Trusted Guy (eventually up to Chribba).

You guys don't see where the real issue is and just peak each at other.

Trust and identity are easily fixed by escalating up to the next Trusted Guy (eventually up to Chribba).

I mean, it's hard and unreliable to trust anyone in EvE but it can be done.

Real time spot pricing instead is very very hard in EvE. It's required for futures typical continuous margin check. That's the one way to have small margin bonds that are a fraction of the contract.

Leverage too is quite hard to achieve, yet - with just 2 decimals and generally small price velocity for most items - it would be almost mandatory.

Finally, liquidity. There's no functional market without liquidity and EvE primary markets are already illiquid as is, the derivatives would be a nightmare full of gaps and peaks. At the same time, due to the lack of real time data feed, it'd be totally hard to implement bilateral arbitrage to reconcile derivatives and underlying.


In the end I think best derivative for EvE would be to just settle down for forwards. Much less hassle, they could be done right now - if anyone bothered to that is.