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[CVA/UK] What on earth has happened?

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Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:20:00 - [1] It used to be that you could drop into a CVA/UK battlereport (well, the ones outside the IG forums) and see nothing but mutual respect, and even in the IG forum the banter was almost playful (despite the RPd hostility). RP-wise, bitter enemies, but still friendly outside and with a healthy amount of respect. Not to mention recognition in case there was a good fight. Now it's there is smack, posturing (from both sides) and so much bitterness that you could swear it was a BoBvsD2 or a Post--V-post-TCF/Goons Lotka Volterra report. And that's in the CAOD! What on earth has happened that caused this much (non-RP) bitterness? Was it the ISS/IAC conflict? I can certainly see the traces since on each side of the conflict we can find bitter bitter elements of the ISS/IAC conflict (IAC and BUM). In my ignorance I thought that CVA/UK was one of the strongest bastions of good natured fighting in EVE and over the last month that belief has just been slowly weathered away. Am I mistaken about this, or maybe I should just give up my plans to venture out into "real" 0.0 again and just do some old-fashioned frigate on frigate hobo-fighting anywhere I can find non-smack, all-respect (as long as you had the attitude, no matter the skill) PvP? ...if I can find it. Seems tough these days. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Sexorella hotz Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:21:00 - [2] One side's losing? I know nothing about what's going on, but that would usually do it.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:24:00 - [3] What happened is other people have gotten involved. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Beer is my religion. Guinness is my God.
Archilies The Wild Hunt FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:26:00 - [4] Bottom got involved. There Was A Time When The World Asked Ordinary Men To Do Extraordinary Things
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:29:00 - [5] At least we are playing nice. Though, is that a good thing for a bunch of rum filled pirtes with a huge lust for booty?
Obed Imperial Logistics	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Obed on 14/05/2007 22:38:32 The op has a point. It wasn't too long ago that Hardin was posting epic battle reports which received universal props and g/f from all sides. I've not been following what's going on too closely, but since other external entitites have become involved things have gone down-hill a bit, as the op and others have pointed out. A bit of a pity really edit: typos/grammar ----- I have one account and zero alts.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Krugerrand At least we are playing nice. Though, is that a good thing for a bunch of rum filled pirtes with a huge lust for booty? I thought Outbreak always played nice. Well, you know. Pirates, but more the Jack Sparrow type and less the "U nuub we so pwned u. Run home to momma lewsers" type. At least that was my experience with my old character/old corp (way back) back in Insmother. Ok, you usually pasted us whenever you caught us, but I don't ever recall getting smack or disrespect for it. Even when we were dodging you and trying to avoid a fight. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:43:00 - [8] Originally by: ReaperOfSly What happened is other people have gotten involved. From those I know in the conflict, that seems to be the main reason behind what the OP has noticed --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:44:00 - [9] From what I understand about CVA and UK, neither one can live without the other. The trouble is, a whole bunch of other alliances (including mine ) have gotten bored and decided to shove their noses in, one side or the other. This is where the smack comes from. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Beer is my religion. Guinness is my God.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:44:00 - [10] from what i have seen, the hostility is not between cva and u/k but other people who have been involved in recent fights.
Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:48:00 - [11] Maybe people just got confused and thought they were in a BoB thread
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.14 22:54:00 - [12] Originally by: ReaperOfSly From what I understand about CVA and UK, neither one can live without the other. The trouble is, a whole bunch of other alliances (including mine ) have gotten bored and decided to shove their noses in, one side or the other. This is where the smack comes from. DING! Although I'm not completely innocent, things were all "cordial" until a LOT more outside/new to Providence people got involved. I have mad respect for U'K and CVA and other Prov Dwellers. =-) See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Rylet VanDorn Pastafarians Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:14:00 - [13] Originally by: ReaperOfSly What happened is other people have gotten involved. Quoted for truth. CVA/UK are all still a bunch of really cool, mature people.
Jogyn Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:23:00 - [14] I think another big problem was that capitals and posses got involved. It's much funnier to loose/kill battlships then it's to loose/take posses and stations.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:34:00 - [15] Truthfully, I think its more a matter of UK being less loud when the situation was unfavorable to them. They've spent months having CVA bring in some heavy guns on them and wearing down UK's local allies. As they lost ground they took it with pretty good humor, and the verbal scuffles were relatively few and far between. I don't think CVA took their losses with as good of grace, and this resulted in some fairly complainy and accusatory posts. The usual forum trolls on both sides ran with it from there. Providence remains an active and interesting 0.0 region with the benefit of being low enough quality not to attract the mega-alliances. Neither side is finished, and many more interesting fights will occur. Perhaps the tide will turn and put CVA on the heavy defensive for a while, perhaps not. There remains a lot of entrenched imbalance to overcome. I hope that should UK continue to gain momentum and push CVA back more, that CVA's supporters will remember the good grace that UK has shown in times past and match it. Until then, keep it clean, and may there be a great many explosions. Preferably all yours, servants of a corrupt and decaying empire.
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:42:00 - [16] Its not all bad See! Now Recruiting
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.14 23:53:00 - [17] the Wow element has crept into the game as a whole
Juggernaut Kell Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Herculite Maybe people just got confused and thought they were in a BoB thread thanks! I just spit food all over my KB laughing. You win the thread BTW.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 15/05/2007 00:29:58 It almost all roots in OOC PR lines by people who arent IC. CVA or U'K makes a statement. A certain few people start smacking. Then you get annoyed responces to the smacking individual. The annoyed responces arent diplomatic, and it becomes CVA vs U'K OOC instead of where it started. It should also be mentioned that alot is on the line right now, which can fray tempers and keep people from remembering what forum they are on ect. Still there are multiple fine OOC posts from both sides (even the "ebil pirates" of 0utbreak :P) in the thread you are mentioning, they just tend to get drowned in the butter. (not, mind you, that Butter is the only one who has responded with smack on that thread. Its, as usual, a two sided affair.) Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:36:00 - [20] Things are still relatively smack-free, Evoke and Outbreak have certainly not added any from their end, and while there are non or light RPers within both U'K and CVA who (lacking a developed IC/OOC divide) may take things a bit personally, for the most part they're kept in reign by leadership on both sides (or at least we try). However, tensions are high at times due to some seeing this as "end-game" of a very long-running war and a fight for survival, and it isn't helped by the constant smackfest from BUM. Still, compared to the threads about wars between conventional 0.0 entities, things are still extremely mild, it only seems bad by comparison to how things were between us before QR, an engagement that made some bitter over a perceived breach of an OOC agreement they felt existed (the arguments for/against that have been hashed over again and again elsewhere and don't need to be brought up again here). I don't really feel current conditions are worth despairing over.
Cmd Woodlouse moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.05.15 01:20:00 - [21] Originally by: slothe from what i have seen, the hostility is not between cva and u/k but other people who have been involved in recent fights. after being such a long time active in EVE i can expect from you to not write such a noobish crap. Next try plz babe
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light	Posted - 2007.05.15 03:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Its not all bad See! WTS: Recently Aquired slaves See you in space! Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.15 07:18:00 - [23] The smack is mostly COAD based, which is what this forum is for after all In-game and in local, its very clean. Apart from that damn CVA preaching Though its probably true to say that there is a degree of smack, simply wrapped up into an IC context so it appears somehow more 'mature'. The truth is that CVA and UK have been smacking each other for years, just in an IC format. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Butter Dog The smack is mostly COAD based, which is what this forum is for after all In-game and in local, its very clean. Apart from that damn CVA preaching Though its probably true to say that there is a degree of smack, simply wrapped up into an IC context so it appears somehow more 'mature'. The truth is that CVA and UK have been smacking each other for years, just in an IC format. True... And I am sure their will be more battlereports in the future. Just for reference the battlereport for QR was not released until the dust had pretty much settled... ...and as far as I can see that isn't going to happen here for a long time ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Occasus Vim Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:17:00 - [25] When you have maybe between 700-1000 people of varying ages and backgrounds divided up in even a make-believe conflict, you can't avoid occasional temper losses and the like, and the numbers involved here aren't even the biggest around. I think we do pretty well overall, but you won't see me claiming total innocence. I'd like to comment briefly (well, as far as 'briefly' applies to some of my posts anyway :D) on the dynamic of non-roleplayers in the middle of a role-play conflict. As has been said, we're all role-players in this game, to a degree. We're not spaceship pilots in real life. "Role-playing" alliances aren't fundamentally different than others, really, they just have an extra source of motivations for their actions. We all do the same things, PvP, politick, etc., - roleplayers just factor in elements from the Eve backstory, the prime fiction, and let it guide our actions. If you play a Caldari character, and you have ever lipped off or attacked another character simply because they are Gallente, then you are doing what we do. You're acting based on the creative fiction that makes Eve a "world" instead of just a virtual ring for people to smack each other around in. Essentially, we're taking advantage of that aspect of the game which a certain part of the CCP staff, and now the White Wolf additions to that staff, have created to make a more interesting game. To non-RPers who are working with/being shot by RPers: Roleplayers view game events through the lens of Eve's fiction. Even if you don't consider your own actions to be motivated by that fiction, roleplayers are still going to view them this way. Everyone is In-Character, as far as we're concerned. I understand that there is a point of view out there that figures involving people in RP like this, "against their will", is a little unfair, but I also understand that there are a lot of people who think piracy is pretty unfair as well. One of the nice things about Eve is its freedom and diversity. So, if you're enjoying an allied status with RPers, but aren't one yourself, grand - you obviously know that there's a lot of overlap between IC and OOC agendas, and one does not necessarily preclude the other. If you're being shot by some of those filthy RPers though, or perhaps they are treating you to an IC propaganda slamfest on one of the IC boards we have here - try not to take it personally. To use a very oversimplified analogy: In chess, it doesn't make sense to harbor contempt for your opponent, even if he is In ur sqwarez, capturing ur pawnz. Eve is just an elaborate chess game with some fictional context driving many of the pieces.
Zaphod Jones Minmatar Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.15 10:49:00 - [26] this is most annoying.... I read the title as CYVOK, and was hoping for some more news, oh well Celtic Anarchy is recruiting
Sapphrine Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Zaphod Jones this is most annoying.... I read the title as CYVOK, and was hoping for some more news, oh well 2nd door on the left, ask at the desk. :P Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Trind2222 Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.05.15 11:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Occasus Vim When you have maybe between 700-1000 people of varying ages and backgrounds divided up in even a make-believe conflict, you can't avoid occasional temper losses and the like, and the numbers involved here aren't even the biggest around. I think we do pretty well overall, but you won't see me claiming total innocence. I'd like to comment briefly (well, as far as 'briefly' applies to some of my posts anyway :D) on the dynamic of non-roleplayers in the middle of a role-play conflict. As has been said, we're all role-players in this game, to a degree. We're not spaceship pilots in real life. "Role-playing" alliances aren't fundamentally different than others, really, they just have an extra source of motivations for their actions. We all do the same things, PvP, politick, etc., - roleplayers just factor in elements from the Eve backstory, the prime fiction, and let it guide our actions. If you play a Caldari character, and you have ever lipped off or attacked another character simply because they are Gallente, then you are doing what we do. You're acting based on the creative fiction that makes Eve a "world" instead of just a virtual ring for people to smack each other around in. Essentially, we're taking advantage of that aspect of the game which a certain part of the CCP staff, and now the White Wolf additions to that staff, have created to make a more interesting game. To non-RPers who are working with/being shot by RPers: Roleplayers view game events through the lens of Eve's fiction. Even if you don't consider your own actions to be motivated by that fiction, roleplayers are still going to view them this way. Everyone is In-Character, as far as we're concerned. I understand that there is a point of view out there that figures involving people in RP like this, "against their will", is a little unfair, but I also understand that there are a lot of people who think piracy is pretty unfair as well. One of the nice things about Eve is its freedom and diversity. So, if you're enjoying an allied status with RPers, but aren't one yourself, grand - you obviously know that there's a lot of overlap between IC and OOC agendas, and one does not necessarily preclude the other. If you're being shot by some of those filthy RPers though, or perhaps they are treating you to an IC propaganda slamfest on one of the IC boards we have here - try not to take it personally. To use a very oversimplified analogy: In chess, it doesn't make sense to harbor contempt for your opponent, even if he is In ur sqwarez, capturing ur pawnz. Eve is just an elaborate chess game with some fictional context driving many of the pieces. Cheer for role players i think is cool that are role players in eve. Im not so good at role playing so i don't rp.
Lord Artemis Filthy Wyrm Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:20:00 - [29] Emo link ;-) This thread reminded me of this song. _____________________________ Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC!
whisk 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.15 15:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse Originally by: slothe from what i have seen, the hostility is not between cva and u/k but other people who have been involved in recent fights. after being such a long time active in EVE i can expect from you to not write such a noobish crap. Next try plz babe uhhhhh? what? he nowhere said that ewokes are smacking ******s but you do seem overly defensive for some reason or another.

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