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So now what, Sanmatar Shakor?

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Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1047	Posted - 2017.05.30 08:33:25 - [1] - Quote This is from another thread, but I figured it deserves its own one. Elmund Egivand wrote: Sincerely, I doubt Sanmatar Shakor's going to change anything, not even this time. Unless the nations, in this case, the Republic, actually starts sending in the Republic Fleet to stabilise the region and put down the foundations for a long-term fortification and settlement plan, it's going to remain a Pendulum. No ***. That does not mean we should not keep on calling for the government to act. It has been said elsewhere, repeatedly, but let's do this once more. The Militia war is by nature a war of attrition. Both sides keep on pouring resources into it, and it is not just indie capsuleer resources, but also government property and Republic ships. The Republic is smaller by far than the Empire, so in any war of attrition, if it runs for long enough, we will lose*. The TLF has demonstrated, now once and again, that we are willing to help make a difference. That is valuable in itself, and no one should belittle the achievement in space. However, unless the government acts, we have won this pendulum tick, but lost the War.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2023	Posted - 2017.05.30 08:39:13 - [2] - Quote As usual, my question then becomes what do you want to see happen? Something needs to be done, and I'm pretty sure I've made it clear what lengths I'd like to see the Tribes go to, but there's not much acceptance for that sort of thing around. What then should be done? Not much to gain from simply going "Do something!" "Like what?" "I don't know!"
Elmund Egivand Sebestacny Circle 2435	Posted - 2017.05.30 08:58:53 - [3] - Quote For one, we could have someone who knows how to hold and secure territories to draft up a plan (border defense, budget and manpower estimations) to secure the region and shove it under the Tribal Council's nose repeatedly until they give an answer. No, don't shove it under Sanmatar Shakor's nose. He doesn't actually have real power these days beyond Executive Power. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
ValentinaDLM Remember The Fallen. Atlas. Alliance 962	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:03:44 - [4] - Quote I can't really answer for the Sanmatar, but I think from a practical point of view, amassing resources for the war effort on our own seems like a pretty reasonable course of action. We need isk, ships, pilots, and skills, and hopefully the more we have on our own the less the Republic has to contribute to us. If nothing else, we can make this toy war easier on the Republic.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:11:43 - [5] - Quote Quote: As usual, my question then becomes what do you want to see happen? Fair question. As I see it, there are two options *on the government level: 1) Withdraw from the Militia Act and stop the toy war altogether.* I would personally prefer this option. It would allow us to stop pouring resources in the war of attrition and keep open both the option of a (granted unlikely but still) peaceful solution with the Empire and a war (that we actually could win) later. However, not being privy to the exact terms of that international agreement, so I do not know what it would cost us to withdraw. The Empire obviously has an incentive to not let us do that without paying dearly. 2) Stop the toy part and make the push for the Final War now. Now that we control the war zone and the Mary indie forces are scattered and disheartened, push on to the heart of the Empire. Strike them hard enough that we will dictate the terms of peace. Mind you, we will probably lose. My estimate that we cannot win a full-out war against the Empire still stands. What has changed is that if we stay in the current situation, we will lost with even a greater certainty. Since it is unlikely our idiot government will have the guts for either of those, the question remains on what to do about it *on the capsuleer level*. There, unfortunately, our options are limited. The best suggestion I have seen so far is Valentina's above: build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic and prepare for whatever bad future waits us (be it the full-out war, or sheltering the last refugees from the fallen Republic).
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:36:56 - [6] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: No, don't shove it under Sanmatar Shakor's nose. He doesn't actually have real power these days beyond Executive Power. Shakor is, however, the one who should be speaking for the Tribes. I feel it is fair to address the question to him.
Elmund Egivand Sebestacny Circle 2435	Posted - 2017.05.30 10:18:22 - [7] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: No, don't shove it under Sanmatar Shakor's nose. He doesn't actually have real power these days beyond Executive Power. Shakor is, however, the one who should be speaking for the Tribes. I feel it is fair to address the question to him. He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 10:26:51 - [8] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter. I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus. Of course, the whole thing is just a reconstruction from a few old folk tales sold to the masses as The One True Matari Way(tm), so anyone can take whatever approach to what is required of him (how convenient!), but at least how the nomination was advertised to begin with as a "mediator" for the council supports my idea.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2023	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:29:25 - [9] - Quote Allright, actionable plan #1 so far: Industry. A few pitfalls to deal with in that regard, as I'm not entirely sure if the ship blueprints we have access to can even make something that doesn't require capsuleers to work, but let's assume it does. One reasonably determined industrialist with infinite access to materials can churn out roughly 100 Typhoons a day with some dedicated BPC production backing them up. In order to manufacture on a level that would affect the Tribes (do remember the size of our nations, Navies, populations, industrial capacity and so forth) it'll require quite a few capsuleers of that capacity and capability. That opens a few questions: 1. Any industry on a level that'll affect a nation will require humongous resources. Where from? 2. What do we do with the produce? Stockpile it and wait for a war? Only ones who are buying are other capsuleers. 3. How to maintain interest from the capsuleers involved? There's nothing in this for them. 4. Is it even reasonable to expect capsuleers to dump their assets and ISK into this without getting something from it? I don't think this is a viable approach. At the moment, capsuleers are extremely limited in how we can affect our nations in every way. By design. We can't even see most civilian traffic, our markets are cut off from baseliner economies and so on. I think there's a different option that I've mentioned before but feel bears repeating: Be ready for when that changes. One of the greatest problems we have seen so far for all nations when it comes to capsuleer loyalists is that the numbers have always been dwindling, for several reasons. One is exactly that we have been surgically excised from our nations in pretty much every way that matters as capsuleers, and another is that most loyalist entities have historically severely limited their ambitions as capsuleer organizations and thus basically become the kiddie pools that people grow out of sooner or later. The combined frustrations of not being able to actually do anything worthwhile for their own, while the grass, toys and wealth over yonder are always tempting serves to draw them away elsewhere. When New Eden changes and capsuleers suddenly starts mattering - if that happens before CONCORD pulls the plug on this experiment - it'll be too late to start remedying this. You won't be able to grow an organization worth **** all when that has come to pass, so it needs to be done before then. And it's never going to happen in highsec or the Pendulum Wars. Expand the scope. Increase the ambitions. Set big goals. Start small, certainly, but the final aim should be being able to go toe to toe with any entity in our space. Being able to fight Shadow Cartel on equal footing. Being able to exploit the incredible industrial potential of nullsec space. Being able to deploy a capital force to be reckoned with across New Eden in a day. Hiding under the skirts of the Republic won't make anyone a weapon worth wielding by the Tribes. Start thinking and competing on the scales of capsuleers, not dismissing that as something for non-loyalists or whatever else. Make an organization, an Alliance, that can do more than float around in the kiddie pool. Make it a predator to be feared in the deepest seas among the stars. Then we might be ready for the day when we can actually do something for the Tribes. It'll be far too late to start when that day has come and the real capsuleer power houses come knocking and wanting to play.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:35:26 - [10] - Quote Who said anything about stockpiling ships? I cannot of course talk for anyone else, but I think you and Val think remarkably similarly on this. When capsuleers - well, at least those who know their business - talk about "resources" they do not tend to mean idle stockpiles of isk.

Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2023	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:40:49 - [11] - Quote It was one example, but pretty much all our industry options are in some way or another directly related to capsuleer violence, industry and infrastructure. ... were you suggesting that we should all be manufacturing livestock or something? Either way, 'stockpiling assets' isn't going to be something that'll draw much attention nor interest. We do that by default as capsuleers. The trick is giving capsuleers something to use those assets for, or against.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1051	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:45:36 - [12] - Quote I wasn't suggesting we manufacture anything or that we should stockpile assets. Where did you get that from? I said I liked Val's words. As I see it, she talked about building a capsuleer organization that can provide pilots, skills, ships, isk, when need be. Now you talk about building a capsuleer organization that can provide those when need be. Yet you talk like you somehow disagree with her. But I guess I'll let you sort that out between yourselves.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2023	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:50:48 - [13] - Quote "build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic" sounded rather different, but allright. The suggestion still stands, but I have a sneaking suspicion it'll remain merely words on the IGS. If memory serves, the last time it was brought up, there was mention of 'treason'.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1051	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:54:35 - [14] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: "build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic" sounded rather different, but allright. I apologize for the unclear wording that caused the misunderstanding. Even if I am a little irked that your interpretation of "resources and force" when spoken by me is "stockpile idle equipment". Quote: The suggestion still stands, but I have a sneaking suspicion it'll remain merely words on the IGS. If memory serves, the last time it was brought up, there was mention of 'treason'. Times change. This time, if it remains idle words, it is because people are more interested in saying "you should do this" than doing it themselves. Which is definitely a possibility.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2303	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:54:58 - [15] - Quote When Jamyl was on the throne, there might have been a case to argue for pushing on to the Sarum Prime system, to demonstrate the resolve of the Republic. As I recall it's only a few jumps out from the war zone. But with Catiz on the throne, then pushing to Tash-Murkon Prime is a bigger task. Bhizheba, Imperial Navy HQ itself stands in the way. Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense and you might have a chance at a settled peace. I am not sure you can get a military solution. And of course there is always the prospect of a military inclined Emperor appearing who could put the Empire on a total war footing. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1052	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:05:11 - [16] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. So this too is a plan that might have worked with Jamyl on the throne. Catiz, however, is not stupid.
Mizhara Del'thul Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 2023	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:08:38 - [17] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Even if I am a little irked that your interpretation of "resources and force" when spoken by me is "stockpile idle equipment". I was going to make a southerner joke, but instead I'll apologize for unintentionally belittling you. My apologies. Quote: This time, if it remains idle words, it is because people are more interested in saying "you should do this" than doing it themselves. Which is definitely a possibility. This is a simple matter of honest insight into oneself. I am not an organizational leader. I don't have the skills, personality or charisma of someone who organizes and leads people. I could at best be the person on stage that makes the big statements and points in the right direction, while someone else did the difficult jobs. On an organizational chart, I'm an awkward floating element somewhere off to the left because I don't take orders well nor am I the kind of person other people take orders from unless they're the kind who'll follow someone on their ability to take out a bulkhead with someone else's head alone. I'm an asset to be used. When there are no loyalists interested in that sort of asset, with the ambitions needed for such things, well then that asset goes elsewhere to those who do. I can tell you this much: If I returned to Kyn'aldrnari and proclaimed my intent to take every moon and POCO in our space, or carve out a piece of nullsec for Tribe loyalists to fight for and thrive in, for the sake of the Republic... well, I doubt a lot of people would walk that path behind me. Would you?
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1052	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:18:47 - [18] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I was going to make a southerner joke, but instead I'll apologize for unintentionally belittling you. My apologies. No harm intended and no harm done. We are good. I struggle to properly answer the other comments you made. But since the proposed solution I was endorsing and claiming to be the same as your was not even initially mine, maybe I do not need to.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2303	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:26:38 - [19] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. It does? Why? Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1017	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:58:10 - [20] - Quote It would be nice if the FW would end while one side has an advantage no? Gallente could have most of that CEMWPA zone lowsec and the Matari could have most of the east side zone. I am sure he will see this thread and petition CONCORD to stop it though. I am sure you have many compelling arguments that will push (again) CONCORD into dismantling the factional wars. I am absolutely positive that CONCORD has no ulterior motives for keeping the conflict running. Quote: Yulai - The CONCORD Assembly, still reeling from the destruction of its headquarters station in Yulai, has announced the immediate authorization of the "Emergency Militia War Powers Act". This action follows an emergency meeting with all four session members, who petitioned for this section of the charter to be ratified following the drastic events of the day. Fleet Admiral Kasora Neko is reported to have represented the Minmatar Republic. The War Powers provision of the CONCORD Charter authorizes the "immediate and unconditional formation of capsuleer militias among the nation-state members of the CONCORD Assembly for the purpose of waging uncontested war within the boundaries of Empire space." According to Charter experts, the founders added the emergency provision as a means of absolving CONCORD of any obligation to interfere with combat between nation-states, an act that protects the DED more than anything else. Ratified by all four empires for the benefit of CONCORD. Until you get all four empires to unanimously vote against the interests of CONCORD you are never going to end the conflict. They will not do so because everyone involved is making money. And the Minmatar milita was the first to monetize itself into the farm cycle. My alliance allied with groups within it as well as some other alliances such as the Goonswarm Federation to turn it into a money farm. Why in the world you think that the Matari are the only ones not making money on this I honestly cannot understand. Do you really think that a republic fleet warp disruptor costs that much or that its means of production are ever threatened by controlled zones of novice plexes being captured in lowsec? Do you think a Federation Navy Webifier costs the Federation Navy even half as much to sell the rights to as they get back from pilots? Do you honestly think that there aren't a billion corporations in the zones making money hand over fist on this war? I understand that you think that appealing to the Sanmatar is the best way to influence the Tribes and Republic into withdrawing their support but doing so immediately after Matar 'won' control of the warzone for the second time while downplaying how much ISK that Matar makes as well as the income you and your alliance get is incredibly deceitful and disingenuous. I think you even believe it though which is far more insane. I am glad you have finally learned the role of the Sanmatar in your government though. Goddess of the IGS As strength goes.

Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1061	Posted - 2017.05.30 13:21:23 - [21] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. It does? Why? Read the gods-be-damned thread.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 2306	Posted - 2017.05.30 13:46:22 - [22] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. It does? Why? Read the gods-be-damned thread. Sorry. I mistook making economic sense to mean it was actually beneficial rather than being less detrimental to the Empire than it is to the Republic. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4101	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:04:12 - [23] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: The Republic is smaller by far than the Empire, so in any war of attrition, if it runs for long enough, we will lose. Not true. Let's say the Republic represents 1/5th the Empire's military-industrial power. In a war of attrition, if the Republic can inflict more than 5:1 losses, it is not losing. Are we able to currently measure the two nations' military, economic, and industrial capacities accurately enough to judge what the 'win/loss' threshold is right now? I don't think so. It's quite likely the Republic is performing below the 'win' threshold, but you can't say it's inevitable. Elmund Egivand wrote: For one, we could have someone who knows how to hold and secure territories to draft up a plan (border defense, budget and manpower estimations) to secure the region and shove it under the Tribal Council's nose repeatedly until they give an answer. AlternativelyGÇöand this is just a crazy spitballing thingGÇösomeone who knows how to hold and secure territories and is active and available to do so in the war zone could draft up a plan (border defense, patrols, fortifications, etc) and enact it. Again: taking the war zone is one thing. Political pressure will happen when/if you hold the war zone and have the leverage to actually pressure the government. Right now, you've got a moment. You need to make it a movement. Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus. Neither of which empower him to speak for anyone but himself until that consensus is reached. Mediation does not mean he is empowered to dictate what that consensus is. In fact, it means that until consensus is achieved, he cannot endorse any position on the matter, because that would prejudice his role as a mediator. You can't be the arbiter if you've already chosen a side. But all of that is only relevant if you want to keep your focus and activity in the current war zone. And on that score, I agree with Mizhara almost completely: get out of the war zone. Build something bigger. Build something that exercises real strength. But don't shoot for being able to take on Shadow Cartel. Shoot for being able to take on NCdot, PanFam, or Goons. Always aim higher than you think you can reach, and push to do it anyway.
Elmund Egivand Sebestacny Circle 2440	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:16:43 - [24] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter. I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus. Of course, the whole thing is just a reconstruction from a few old folk tales sold to the masses as The One True Matari Way(tm), so anyone can take whatever approach to what is required of him (how convenient!), but at least how the nomination was advertised to begin with as a "mediator" for the council supports my idea. Unfortunately, the Sanmatar cannot force a Tribal consensus. He can only be there to help mediate the discussion to ensure nobody starts throwing shoes at each other instead of discussing and debating like proper gentlemen/gentleladies. That is what being a mediator is about. It's only when the Tribal chiefs/elders finally come up with a consensus, if they do come to a consensus, that he can then deliver their decisions to the relevant parties as their Voice. Again, the role of the Sanmatar is not to make any decisions unless the situation is dire enough that he had to use his Executive Power (after which, he will have to relinquish his position as Sanmatar after the crisis is over). He is there to help smooth things along and to speak to all the relevant parties about the Tribal Council decisions. The real power belongs to the Tribal Chiefs/Elders, which is why I pointed out that it's best to cut the middleman and just annoy them instead. Or if you absolutely have to annoy the Sanmatar, include the rest of the Tribal Council into the mailing list. Personally, in regards to the military, I think the biggest issue is the mismanagement of human resources. The standard Republic Fleet warship uses far more crew as compared to the Federal Navy, the Caldari Navy and, heck, even the Amarr Navy. The people/ship ratio is too disproportionate. While new designs and redesigns are being churned out diligently in order to modernise the Fleet, there isn't nearly as much effort being made given to address this disproportionate crew/ship ratio. However, I acknowledge that incorporation of more automation to reduce manpower needs of each warship and thus allowing the use of more warships (and the Republic does really have alot of warships, but could definitely use even more) requires further expenditures, and thus there is a need to, at least for the time being, focus on getting the income, and to manage that money flow, in order to accomplish this. However, considering that the Minmatar Republic is consistently producing quality products, the fruits of the brilliant materials scientists and engineers of the Republic, added by the income from taxations on capsuleer incomes in Rens and Hek and the purchase of blueprints and implants via the various corporations which service capsuleers (including the TLF), I had to wonder why the Republic isn't already working on remedying the problem. I suspect, having observed the wildly inconsistent distribution of wealth and infrastructure in Republic space even in the core worlds, that the money isn't being managed properly. How many percent of that income is going into the Tribes and how many into Republic coffers? How much is really being put into infrastructure and economic development and how much into defense? Considering that the Republic did have that one incident of confused hierarchy (Colelie, where a Republic Fleet detachment entered Gallente space under the orders of not the Tribal Council but the Sebiestor Tribe, despite their supposedly answering to the Tribal Council and the Republic as a whole instead of individual Tribes), perhaps the matter hasn't entirely being straightened out, which is the cause of this kerfuffle? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1062	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:23:42 - [25] - Quote What intel is your idea that the Colelie incident was Sebiestor tribe's based on? I was on the field that day, part of the chain of command, and there were Fleet officers of all tribes present. The capsuleer liaison was Heder Elislar, of Brutor Tribe. Information we got about who had ordered the strike were merely that the orders were "directly from the top".
Casserina Leshrac Sanguine Illuminations 228	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:28:08 - [26] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: When Jamyl was on the throne, there might have been a case to argue for pushing on to the Sarum Prime system, to demonstrate the resolve of the Republic. As I recall it's only a few jumps out from the war zone. But with Catiz on the throne, then pushing to Tash-Murkon Prime is a bigger task. Bhizheba, Imperial Navy HQ itself stands in the way. Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense and you might have a chance at a settled peace. I am not sure you can get a military solution. And of course there is always the prospect of a military inclined Emperor appearing who could put the Empire on a total war footing. As it has been mentioned before. The military option may not be the way that Catiz plans to win any war. Her stratagems are based on a business mindset and having the resources of the largest faction in New Eden she bring those forces to bear. The militias serve to keep the proxy wars going while at the same time Amarr products and services enter the Republic Market. It's the economic war that the Tribes really have to worry about in the long term. And all perfectly legal as far as CONCORD is concerned. *We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.*
Elmund Egivand Sebestacny Circle 2441	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:49:42 - [27] - Quote Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: What intel is your idea that the Colelie incident was Sebiestor tribe's based on? For the record, I was on the field that day, part of the chain of command, and there were Fleet officers of all tribes present. The capsuleer liaison was Heder Elislar, of Brutor Tribe. Information we got about who had ordered the strike were merely that the orders were "directly from the top". It appears that I have been mistaken about where the orders are coming from. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Ayallah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1019	Posted - 2017.05.30 19:39:52 - [28] - Quote In fact, when the new Sebiestor Chief was chosen one of her first acts was to condemn the Republic and other Tribes for handling Sebiestor Tribal business, meaning the events surrounding Karin Midular's assassination and Colelie. Goddess of the IGS As strength goes.
Pieter Tuulinen Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 7701	Posted - 2017.05.30 20:18:05 - [29] - Quote I seem to remember a leader taking advantage of his side holding the FW zone to take steps to permanently settle it. I seem to remember that act causing a serious rebirth of interest in the other side fighting the war. If I thought for a moment that the clock might be ticking on a final disposition of worlds in the contested area, you wouldn't be able to get me out of the cockpit and I suspect that would count for many other pilots on all sides. The whole system is tuned such that the moment you win, it makes contesting your win the most profitable part of the war. People are going to come out of the woodwork to do so, and if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1066	Posted - 2017.05.30 20:23:56 - [30] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast. Kamela is highest contested, at about 33 percent. It went up to 60+ pretty much immediately after Arzad fell, but has been brought down again. Not that I expect this to last.



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