| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6578
   |
Posted - 2017.06.09 22:59:12 -
[1] - Quote
32 pages of histrionics...awesome.
Has anyone mentioned that the mineral price index has fallen from just under 120 to about 95 since May 2016, an approximate decline of 21%?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6579
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 00:34:11 -
[2] - Quote
Radious Servasse wrote:CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.
CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.
Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players.
A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing.
As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices.
Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least.
Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6580
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 05:50:26 -
[3] - Quote
Double Blade wrote:CCP has put themselves in a position where they MUST reduce the amount of available resources because the players have found a way to become too efficient at harvesting them.
Since the players have access to unlimited resources through accelerated respawn rates, there is no limit on how efficient they can become at harvesting available resources. Without a limit on resources, they will have room for infinite growth and expansion of their harvesting abilities.
The only result possible is inflation. When more resources are entering the game than leaving, we will see inflation. The more efficient the players become at extracting resources, the faster the rates of inflation.
The Eve economy is on the path to crashing.
What tipped the first domino? Skill injectors.
Skill injectors now allow players to create new characters and make them extremely efficient at harvesting resources in practically no time at all. Time was a hard limit on the amount of resources that could be harvested from the game by limiting the efficiency of a character. Now, the game is saturated by brand new, highly productive characters.
The Eve economy is being flooded by resources because the time barrier was removed. If you want the leak to stop, you have to first plug the hole. Remove skill injectors.
You might have something if skill injectors created SP de novo. They don't, so you don't.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6603
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 23:52:01 -
[4] - Quote
BESTER bm wrote:Hroovitnir wrote:My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.
Wait, what? Someone who actually thinks this through and comes up with what seems to be a viable and functional alternative to the endless nerf stream? But don't worry, CCP will ignore anything they did not come up with themselves. They will just push through what they think works even if it is proven to be broken.
It is still a nerf....
And will it accomplish it's goal? Suppose a players go from mining a couple, say, times a week for 3 hours at a time to mining 6 times a week for 1 hour and thereby avoid the fatigue and the negative effect on mining output? We are back where we started.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6603
|
Posted - 2017.06.10 23:54:19 -
[5] - Quote
Tyranus Kai wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices.
Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least.
Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made.
You make valid points except the Rorqual was only revamped November, so what was tanking the mineral price the previous 6ish months? And are they nerfing that? Instead of nerfing null mining (and that is exactly what they are doing) why don't they fix the problem of mineral balance in null ores, preventing the glut of low end (and surplus) minerals making their way into hisec?
I don't know and yes they should find out what is the cause of that.
And to be fair, in looking at the in game index for minerals it did appear to be leveling off. Would it have continued to level off, maybe even go back up? I don't know. So it maybe that this nerf is a bit premature.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6603
|
Posted - 2017.06.11 02:54:09 -
[6] - Quote
Richie Kane wrote:It seems that CCP is only concerned about their RL wallets. they don't seem to really care about game play. They give unprecedented power to huge alliances, then when its abused they nurf for everyone. At the end of the day, the only person that loses are the little guys and players. CCP's epic NERFs is all they're known for now.
If you keep nerfing everything , no one will want to play this game anymore.
Yes they are nerfing everything.
Are you done being hysterical or is there somebody I should call to have them come over and slap you to snap you out of it?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6648
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 05:07:37 -
[7] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:BESTER bm wrote:Hroovitnir wrote:My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.
Wait, what? Someone who actually thinks this through and comes up with what seems to be a viable and functional alternative to the endless nerf stream? But don't worry, CCP will ignore anything they did not come up with themselves. They will just push through what they think works even if it is proven to be broken. It is still a nerf.... And will it accomplish it's goal? Suppose a players go from mining a couple, say, times a week for 3 hours at a time to mining 6 times a week for 1 hour and thereby avoid the fatigue and the negative effect on mining output? We are back where we started. Seriously? The problem isn't the guys who mine a few hours a week as you suggest, it is those who have 40 or 50 or more Rorquals sitting in anoms for 12 to 14 hours per day and if adding a fatigue mechanic to Rorquals would help fix that then i say GO FOR IT. Fix the problem without nerfing the little guy.
40 to 50 Rorquals...yeah, sure. 
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6648
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 05:10:35 -
[8] - Quote
Grognard Commissar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Radious Servasse wrote:CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.
CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.
Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players. A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing. As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices. Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least. Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made. you realize it's literally your alliance that's responsible, riiight?
No. Yes Goons rat alot and mine alot, but they are not the sum total of the problem. If you think this you are simply delusional. And in any event. Nerf these things. The money supply growth rate needs to be brought under control, and mineral prices should be allowed to continue to decline.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6648
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 05:12:07 -
[9] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more
So if your employer cuts your pay, you work 2x the number of hours right?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6649
|
Posted - 2017.06.13 17:12:59 -
[10] - Quote
alex tow wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:im pretty sure the only thing ccp took into account with the nerfs is how many new mining accounts youll open up to maintain the same isk level that your single rorqual could have mined.
this is just about forcing people to multibox more So if your employer cuts your pay, you work 2x the number of hours right? Well, if you need minerals, some will do :)
It is sad that EVE players do not grasp the concept of opportunity cost.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6674
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 20:59:14 -
[11] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kist Shi wrote:I was on the understanding that this is a player led game and economy. Do people really think this is a clever or compelling argument? When they initially announced their plans to introduce Excavators and turn the Rorqual into a mining behemoth, did you complain that you thought this was a player-run economy then? I'm betting you didn't.
Heh, the irony.
And when an unbalanced ship appears, let it stay because of "player driven economy."
Yup, that is about a logical as a 3 year old.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6674
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 23:44:29 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Not sure if either of you followed the threads leading up to Rorqual/Orca changes but CCP was warned over and over that their changes would cause problems - CCP went ahead regardless and are now in "oh Shite what did we do" mode.
And what does this prove, imply, even mean? CCP were warned, it went bad, but because they weren't warned we have to leave an unbalanced ship in the game?
Sgt Ocker wrote:They made a lot of RL money from people injecting to get more Rorqual characters due to bad game design .
The problem now is CCP/Devs are not addressing the underlying problem with Rorquals and simply nerfing everyone due to the actions of a minority - Or in other words, doing the only thing this lot of Devs is capable of as they have no idea what "game balance" actually is or how to achieve it.
Let me get this straight...people are upset because they spent RL money accelerating their training on a ship that you indicate was known to be unbalanced...and when CCP about faces people should be upset.
Here is an idea: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Stop chasing the latest fad and go with what works.
Sgt Ocker wrote:Reality is, we haven't had a player driven economy for a long time - It is closely monitored by CCP who will and do intervene when it suits them...
You can try to defend CCP as much as you like but they did wrong...
CCP takes a pretty hands off approach to the economy, IMO.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6675
|
Posted - 2017.06.14 23:53:52 -
[13] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me get this straight...people are upset because they spent RL money accelerating their training on a ship that you indicate was known to be unbalanced...and when CCP about faces people should be upset.
Here is an idea: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Stop chasing the latest fad and go with what works.
An anecdote on this particular note: This morning, in Slack, one of my corpmates was pitching a fit. You see, he is sick of having his Rorquals nerfed. He has... had... two. So, he has decided to sell his rorquals and remap his SP for super-ratting. Because that makes sense, if you're sick of being nerfed. 
Did you show him the thread for nerfing supers? And did you tell him if that doesn't work, he'll likely face a second round of nerfs or more?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6681
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 04:31:09 -
[14] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me get this straight...people are upset because they spent RL money accelerating their training on a ship that you indicate was known to be unbalanced...and when CCP about faces people should be upset.
Here is an idea: If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Stop chasing the latest fad and go with what works.
An anecdote on this particular note: This morning, in Slack, one of my corpmates was pitching a fit. You see, he is sick of having his Rorquals nerfed. He has... had... two. So, he has decided to sell his rorquals and remap his SP for super-ratting. Because that makes sense, if you're sick of being nerfed. Did you show him the thread for nerfing supers? And did you tell him if that doesn't work, he'll likely face a second round of nerfs or more? Of course. There is no reasoning with the compulsion to chase the BIG THING, though.
No kidding. I tried that once with the nano HACs. After that I moved to NS and it was "Train t2 large guns". So I spent forever training T2 large guns and different racial BS. After awhile I just didn't even care what the flavor of the month was.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6683
|
Posted - 2017.06.15 16:06:16 -
[15] - Quote
badside wrote:Let's all sell our fancy ships overpriced ships, all turn into Alphas and fly Caracals. Seriously, every time they nerf something I am just going to sell it. Yep, I might end up in a Caracal, until they eventually nerf that one too.
Somebody needs a nap.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6684
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 04:36:39 -
[16] - Quote
Eligh Douglas wrote:CCP you have just made my play time almost impossible. Now with the asteroid anomoly respawn timer changes, when I get to sit down and play eve the colossal has been mined out and by the time its due to come back my few hours of eve a night is over.
Not everyone has so much time in a day to mine constantly. You really expect me to spend my whole play time looking for a system that has a colossal? Yes I could goto the other sizes, but as its safer to mine in big groups where you can get a response group, once the colossal is depleted most rorqual pilots log or go so something else while they wait for a new colossal to spawn.
I'm sick of the bloody Rorqual nerfs CCP and I demand as a paying customer with cash that you put the timers on asteroid belts back to what they were.
Yep, mining in a rorqual is the only thing to do in game. And game balance be damned.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6684
|
Posted - 2017.06.16 17:41:51 -
[17] - Quote
Eligh Douglas wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Eligh Douglas wrote:CCP you have just made my play time almost impossible. Now with the asteroid anomoly respawn timer changes, when I get to sit down and play eve the colossal has been mined out and by the time its due to come back my few hours of eve a night is over.
Not everyone has so much time in a day tso aoomine constantly. You really expect me to spend my whole play time looking for a system that has a colossal? Yes I could goto the other sizes, but as its safer to mine in big groups where you can get a response group, once the colossal is depleted most rorqual pilots log or go so something else while they wait for a new colossal to spawn.
I'm sick of the bloody Rorqual nerfs CCP and I demand as a paying customer with cash that you put the timers on asteroid belts back to what they were. Yep, mining in a rorqual is the only thing to do in game. And game balance be damned. For me it is yes, because that's what I trained for. I do of course have an alt for other activities, but I enjoy mining, its relaxing and helps me wind down without thinking too much. Is this not why we have alts in the first place? Besides, if you goonies didn't mine so much , ccp wouldn't have had to nerf Rorqual mining again so soon now would they? :-)
Do you know how many times I have trained for something for it to be nerfed? First, nano-HACs, then I trainded for sniper BS, nerfed (not directly, just other things came along that rendered it a useless doctrine), drake fleet, then it was another HAC doctrine...an armor HAC that PL named something "fist", I loved sniper HACs...never see those anymore and on and on. If you insist on training for just one thing in this game, you will eventually get your turn in the barrel when it comes to nerfs and not have much in the way of other options.
Expecting other players to not utilize something in game to the fullest is foolishness, BTW. Whenever possible people mini/max, it is not a "Goon thing....". And it is also foolishness to expect other players to limit their game play so you can expand yours. And it is downright pathetic to demand that CCP do that for you.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6686
|
Posted - 2017.06.17 18:23:12 -
[18] - Quote
Trevize Demerzel wrote:Dear CCP, General inquiry. Now that all the Colossal and Enormous belts are completely gone in my region during my Time Zone that I get to play in. Pray tell which time zone am I now required to play this game effectively in? FU CCP. Yes FU. 
Have you looked into something besides mining?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6688
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 17:39:01 -
[19] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Trevize Demerzel wrote:Dear CCP, General inquiry. Now that all the Colossal and Enormous belts are completely gone in my region during my Time Zone that I get to play in. Pray tell which time zone am I now required to play this game effectively in? FU CCP. Yes FU. Have you looked into something besides mining? Why should they? It's a stupid change driven by Fozzie and co again. A better option would have been to reduce the number of roids spawning, or reduce the mineral content back down. But no, they find it more fun for themselves to make it as much hassle as possible for what is basically a sedentary profession which a lot find relaxing.
So nerf everyone but yourself.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6688
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 17:40:35 -
[20] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:
Why should they?
It's a stupid change driven by Fozzie and co again.
A better option would have been to reduce the number of roids spawning, or reduce the mineral content back down.
But no, they find it more fun for themselves to make it as much hassle as possible for what is basically a sedentary profession which a lot find relaxing.
Which would A: Do nothing since the anom would have instantly respawned, making the amount per anom basically irrelevant & B: punished everyone including the small guy with 2 Hulks & an orca who barely manages to mine out a small in 24 hours. So C: Put a timer on anom respawns was the solution that actually hit the right targets without nerfing the others. Of course, there are 3 other Anom classes & all the actual Belts that they could mine in. It's not CCP's fault they won't use what's in the game. All that'll happen is the big Rorq and Hulk fleets will move to the other anoms like locusts, so there'll be bugger all for the small guy anyway, unless he forgets the ABC's and sticks to the normal belts.
Then more of a nerf to rorquals is the ticket, right?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6690
|
Posted - 2017.06.19 19:27:45 -
[21] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:
That's not what I meant or inferred, IF you have a colossal in system it's blatantly obvious that they'll move belts while they wait for the respawn, or do you think they'll log off and wait?
Even if the system only has an enormous, the fleet will still shoulder the small guys out of the way in the other anoms after they strip it.
But hey, gratz to Delve for forcing the nerf by mining close to 25% of all the minerals mined in EVE, really, great job.
You really are not looking at this issue clearly.
First off, what has been happening to mineral prices since last may? Spare us the "Grrr goons" stuff as it just makes you look stupid.
Second, based on what you are seeing for mineral prices what might be a good way to address what is going on?
Why did the MPI (Mineral Price Index) go up so much between the March and the April 2015 MERs? Why did it decline?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 07:14:57 -
[22] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:
That's not what I meant or inferred, IF you have a colossal in system it's blatantly obvious that they'll move belts while they wait for the respawn, or do you think they'll log off and wait?
Even if the system only has an enormous, the fleet will still shoulder the small guys out of the way in the other anoms after they strip it.
But hey, gratz to Delve for forcing the nerf by mining close to 25% of all the minerals mined in EVE, really, great job.
You really are not looking at this issue clearly. First off, what has been happening to mineral prices since last may? Spare us the "Grrr goons" stuff as it just makes you look stupid. Second, based on what you are seeing for mineral prices what might be a good way to address what is going on? Why did the MPI (Mineral Price Index) go up so much between the March and the April 2015 MERs? Why did it decline? First it's not really a grrr goons post, but it's obvious where a stupid amount of mining is going on, probably with some pretty big perma fleets. As for looking stupid, you're the biggest "Fozzie fan boi" on here that's calling someone else out for pointing out your alliance as a cause of the issues...yeah ok. Secondly, reduce the mineral content back down, no it won't stop the fleets, but it would drastically reduce the amount available once again in Null and force them to go buy from HS again where the compressed ore market is now garbage. That might just reverse the downward trend....maybe. As for the MPI, well if you get off on spreadsheets good for you. As for the Rorquals, I have never been a believer in nerfing ships that guys have trained a long time for simply because of overuse.. This whole mess has come about by wanting ships on grid, ships that were never designed to be on grid as boosters/haulers/compressors etc, they were always meant to work in the background, not the front line. Lastly, kill off skill injectors. The ability to make instant miners/fleets has obviously become an issue.
Here is what happened. When looking at the expansions right before the MPI went up CCP changed the composition of asteroids and also the blueprint requirements for megacyte and zydrine. Then CCP buffed mining ships and the prices tanked. The trajectory of mineral prices is downwards.
CCP is deciding the address the issue via changes to respawn rates. You don't like that, but as has been pointed out your suggested fixes do literally noting. So what is left....nerfing the ships that caused the problem in the first place. But you don't like that either.
Now you are grasping at skill injectors. But how does that work? It doesn't really. If something is imbalanced like a ship or ships, all skill injectors do is accelerate the process they are not the cause of the problem.
In short you have nothing here. Not even "Goons did it," because Goons were not mining very much in June, July and August back when the MPI was falling initially. They were busy moving and setting up home in Delve.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2017.06.20 17:06:31 -
[23] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:
First it's not really a grrr goons post, but it's obvious where a stupid amount of mining is going on, probably with some pretty big perma fleets. As for looking stupid, you're the biggest "Fozzie fan boi" on here that's calling someone else out for pointing out your alliance as a cause of the issues...yeah ok.
It's hard to adequately describe how myopic the, "It's YOUR alliance's fault!" nonsense actually is. It's their fault for... what, exactly? Being a large organization? Utilizing powerful gameplay options at scale? What are they supposed to do, exactly? Sit back and say, "Wow, this is REALLY OP, we won't use it en masse because then it will be nerfed and make other people sad!" They're not causing the issue. The game mechanics are causing the issue. At worst, they've merely illustrated why it's an issue.
One could argue that Goons, if anything, are often the canary in the coal mine when it comes to game balance. If we see an advantage we use it...relentlessly. Some have unabashedly in the past noted, "This is a mistake, if you go through with this we'll show just how much of a mistake it is." Example.
So yeah, many Goons are down there mining away like nobody's business. It is just unbelievable that people are saying, "Oh, Goons should not use these items CCP has given all of us so effectively and efficiently! They are making it so we can't also use these items [which are unbalanced] and it isn't fair.!"
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6707
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Posted - 2017.06.21 07:23:59 -
[24] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:
First it's not really a grrr goons post, but it's obvious where a stupid amount of mining is going on, probably with some pretty big perma fleets. As for looking stupid, you're the biggest "Fozzie fan boi" on here that's calling someone else out for pointing out your alliance as a cause of the issues...yeah ok.
It's hard to adequately describe how myopic the, "It's YOUR alliance's fault!" nonsense actually is. It's their fault for... what, exactly? Being a large organization? Utilizing powerful gameplay options at scale? What are they supposed to do, exactly? Sit back and say, "Wow, this is REALLY OP, we won't use it en masse because then it will be nerfed and make other people sad!" They're not causing the issue. The game mechanics are causing the issue. At worst, they've merely illustrated why it's an issue. One could argue that Goons, if anything, are often the canary in the coal mine when it comes to game balance. If we see an advantage we use it...relentlessly. Some have unabashedly in the past noted, "This is a mistake, if you go through with this we'll show just how much of a mistake it is." Example. So yeah, many Goons are down there mining away like nobody's business. It is just unbelievable that people are saying, "Oh, Goons should not use these items CCP has given all of us so effectively and efficiently! They are making it so we can't also use these items [which are unbalanced] and it isn't fair.!" All CCP needed to do to "fix" Rorquals was remove the ability for them to be so easily multiboxed, something they still have not addressed. Basically CCP have nerfed everyone EXCEPT those 1 man fleets of Rorquals causing balance issues. Goons are a symptom of bad game design - Devs are the cause - Everyone gets nerfed because Devs don't know how to fix the issue they created. Devs can keep nerfing Rorquals until the cows come home and it will not achieve what they want. Until they fix the ability to multibox 40 or 50 or more the only players to be affected by these nerfs are those who don't muiltibox. Sadly Devs don't understand (or just don't care) that continually nerfing the small guy hurts the game. What they do understand is - 10 guys using 500 Rorquals is 500 subs so if they lose a few small guys it doesn't hurt the bottom line. "Game balance" is about putting money in CCP's bank account, not providing game play for the masses.
To be clear, the initial run up minerals was very fast and was due to mineral changes to asteroids in NS and also the megacyte and zydrine requirements for a number of items.
CCP, then did a "balance pass" with regards to mining barges which following that we saw a steady decline in the Mineral Price Index.
My guess is CCP felt that the MPI was too high, tinkered with barges and exhumers to try and tweak it. Things moved in the right direction...but then kept right on going.
Then along comes rorquals.
Now, CCP is tinkering again to try and reverse the trend or at least halt it.
Now people can go check all this stuff on the forums and in Dev Blogs. Further, it should point to how hard it is to tinker with things and "get them right". This problem is why I have my signature. The technocratic approach is almost surely going to fail.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6729
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Posted - 2017.06.24 04:53:26 -
[25] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:I quit the game, felt good after 14 years. The changes are just bad.
Can I have your stuff, just contract it to me. Thanks.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6729
|
Posted - 2017.06.24 19:22:08 -
[26] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:I quit the game, felt good after 14 years. The changes are just bad. My last two accounts are now unsubbed after over 5 years, my main one around 72 hours ago, the other 2 are biomassed. Despite hoping for changes for the better, it's been one letdown after another over the last 18 months to 2 years..
Can I have your stuff too?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6737
|
Posted - 2017.06.29 16:23:36 -
[27] - Quote
Permit Mining Officer wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks. We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last. In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones. Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly: - 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
- 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
- 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
- 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
- 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants
These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems. We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are: - About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
- 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
- About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
- 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators
We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. its like NO this isnt a sandbox anymore you may not do what you pleaze... i dont do nullsec but this post says like you do what we want not the freedom yaselfs.... weirdo's!!! i pay for my months others do to you dont deside what other players do with there time especially with mining that is already a zombie mode.. Keep hands oFF!! ccp rip again...
Nobody is preventing you from mining in those clusters other than competition from other players.
And everybody pays for their sub one way or the other.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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