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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1050
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 08:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Shag Sheep wrote:^ just edited it slightly to make my point clearer for you.
Also, true aligning means not just pointing in the direction you want to be able to warp too, it's also moving in that direction to avoid the long & dangerous acceleration time of mining vessels. Considering the mining lasers limited range, that means you often out range the rocks before you fill your cargo and that's assuming you are not trying to fill a can or something. What happens when you are out of range? You warp off and then warp back to your original position? Or maybe turn around and get closer again so you can then realign to your warp out and repeat (this one completely defeats the aligning purpose)? Neither of those two scenarios do anything but make mining even less profitable than it is already. The time wasted cuts deeply into the already low bottom line.
1. Webs 2. Cargo rigs to slow you down 3. Get 2 (ideally 4) celestials and align your way into an orbit around your roid.
All 3 will fix your range issue. |

Enquirer
Core Industrialist Resurrected Shadow of xXDEATHXx
6
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Posted - 2012.01.01 09:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
what bots?
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Ioci
Space Mermaids
38
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 09:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Enquirer wrote:what bots?
I think it's a typo. The don't want Drakes and other missle boats. Not sure tho. |

Halcyon Ingenium
Prometheus Research LLC
89
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 09:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yes
My only caveat is to ask, "At what cost?" I lack information to determine if they are doing everything they can without getting downright Draconian and intrusive with their efforts. I want bots to disappear, but not at the cost of making the game un-fun or having my own privacy violated and possibly exploited.
This being said, the problem is definitely getting steadily worse. I remember a time when mining was actually worth the time, despite the boredom. Now, pffft. Now its a waste of time and effort at best.
The only solution I've ever been able to come up with myself is to make all asteroid fields grav sites, and to make every system spawn at least three every day, so that scanning must be done to find an asteroid field. This wouldn't kill the botting, but it would make the profession at least a little more interesting and drive off the laziest of the botters, maybe. That which always was, and is, and will be everlasting fire, the same for all, the cosmos, made neither by god nor man, replenishes in measure as it burns away. -Heraclitus |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2521
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 10:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Simple yes or no answer please and then list your reasons why.
Of course they could do more. It's a question of whether they could usefully and efficiently do more with their finite resources.
For instance, if they're spending resources developing rats which take intelligence and skill to defeat, then I'm very content for them not to be spending those resources tracking invidividual botters in the meanwhile, because it's a long term solution to the underlying problem. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Ai Shun
State War Academy Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 10:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Yes.
I do not believe they can ever do enough. As long as there is a manual way to do something somebody will find a way to do it automatically. And by the time they've made it difficult enough for the botters the real players would be suffering as well. It might not be worth that cost at the end of the day. |

Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 10:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
There is something very charming about the idea of playing a space miner and I don't like how bots (and drone compounds to some extent) have ruined it as a profitable activity. Thinking about it, mining should be the most lucrative step in the entire production process simply because it is so boring.
I'd like CCP develop a game launcher that resides in memory while you play and looks for suspicious activity and known bot processes. I also think making mining somehow more active so that a person needs to be in control would help a lot as well. |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
463
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 11:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
make it a feature. done. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1050
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 11:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:There is something very charming about the idea of playing a space miner and I don't like how bots (and drone compounds to some extent) have ruined it as a profitable activity. Thinking about it, mining should be the most lucrative step in the entire production process simply because it is so boring.
I'd like CCP develop a game launcher that resides in memory while you play and looks for suspicious activity and known bot processes. I also think making mining somehow more active so that a person needs to be in control would help a lot as well.
Mining is easy and risk free. So everyone does it. So it doesn't provide much income (drone poop is a problem, but fixing it won't help Hisec mining income much). Other Risk free activities (missions, etc.) don't suffer from competition as much, though the do cause inflation, which hurts their real income (and helps that of miners).
Manufacturing runs the risk of changing markets and traders doubly so. So they make more money for accepting risk. If you'd like to capture that isk(and risk), WELL, Have I got news for YOU. With my patented 20d Skill plan, YOU can be manufacturing your very own items out of the very same kind of minerals YOU already have. |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
37
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Posted - 2012.01.01 11:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't know if they could do more or not because I've not ever come across Bots in game. All I see on the forum is hearsay so it's very hard to tell if it's a real problem or like immigration has become in the UK something that people just get worked up about for no apparent good reason.
What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.
I agree with a poster further up though - rats should be more like players, require intelligence and PvP fits to fight - in belts, in complexes and in missions.
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 11:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: Mining is easy and risk free. So everyone does it. So it doesn't provide much income (drone poop is a problem, but fixing it won't help Hisec mining income much). Other Risk free activities (missions, etc.) don't suffer from competition as much, though the do cause inflation, which hurts their real income (and helps that of miners).
Manufacturing runs the risk of changing markets and traders doubly so. So they make more money for accepting risk. If you'd like to capture that isk(and risk), WELL, Have I got news for YOU. With my patented 20d Skill plan, YOU can be manufacturing your very own items out of the very same kind of minerals YOU already have.
Edit: Something like Warden would alienate the userbase, wouldn't work if you run Eve in a virtual machine (like the official Mac Client), and is easily bypassed or confused anyway. So no thanks to the Warden idea.
Hey, I'm not trying to upset you here. :) Mining is easy and fairly risk free in the sense of getting blown up (usually), but it is also BORING and labor intensive. In an MMO, under normal circumstances, anything that's boring and labor intensive and can be done by someone else for a price, usually commands a high price. (And I don't mine any more, btw. It's too boring for me.) Personally, I think it's a shame that bots ruin what could be a good source of income for new players.
As for a warden-like program, I'm sure CCP can think of something if they try. And players wouldn't mind if it meant significantly less bots damaging the integrity of the game. |

RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1050
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 12:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Mining is easy and risk free. So everyone does it. So it doesn't provide much income (drone poop is a problem, but fixing it won't help Hisec mining income much). Other Risk free activities (missions, etc.) don't suffer from competition as much, though the do cause inflation, which hurts their real income (and helps that of miners).
Manufacturing runs the risk of changing markets and traders doubly so. So they make more money for accepting risk. If you'd like to capture that isk(and risk), WELL, Have I got news for YOU. With my patented 20d Skill plan, YOU can be manufacturing your very own items out of the very same kind of minerals YOU already have.
Edit: Something like Warden would alienate the userbase, wouldn't work if you run Eve in a virtual machine (like the official Mac Client), and is easily bypassed or confused anyway. So no thanks to the Warden idea.
Hey, I'm not trying to upset you here. :) Mining is easy and fairly risk free in the sense of getting blown up (usually), but it is also BORING and labor intensive. In an MMO, under normal circumstances, anything that's boring and labor intensive and can be done by someone else for a price, usually commands a high price. (And I don't mine any more, btw. It's too boring for me.) Personally, I think it's a shame that bots ruin what could be a good source of income for new players. As for a warden-like program, I'm sure CCP can think of something if they try. And players wouldn't mind if it meant significantly less bots damaging the integrity of the game.
Most MMOs don't have any risk, so boredom's the only real measure of cost. And Warden didn't lick WoW's Gold selling/botting problems, making the high level items bind and thus devaluing gold as a currency to the point where it wasn't worth buying killed the bot/RMT community in WoW. And an attempt to solve Botting in Eve in any way similar to that would... let's go with "not work well." |

Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Shag Sheep wrote:^ just edited it slightly to make my point clearer for you.
Also, true aligning means not just pointing in the direction you want to be able to warp too, it's also moving in that direction to avoid the long & dangerous acceleration time of mining vessels. Considering the mining lasers limited range, that means you often out range the rocks before you fill your cargo and that's assuming you are not trying to fill a can or something. What happens when you are out of range? You warp off and then warp back to your original position? Or maybe turn around and get closer again so you can then realign to your warp out and repeat (this one completely defeats the aligning purpose)? Neither of those two scenarios do anything but make mining even less profitable than it is already. The time wasted cuts deeply into the already low bottom line.
Align at 75% speed, turn round and align to 2nd warp off the other side of the rocks. You are only vulnerable for a brief moment while turning. Unless they are watching you in a cloaky, that will make you 100% safe. Even if they aren't, they have to get the timing very very accurate to warp in on you exactly as you turn. This will also let you mine just as fast as sitting still. You can also fit various mods that decrease your max speed to increase this time if needed.
The only downside is you have to put a little effort in. If you don't want to do that, it's your own problem and you have NOTHING to complain about except your own laziness.
No you can't be 100% immune, but doing that makes you pretty dam close again the majority of suicide gankers, more if you keep an eye on local.
-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more)-á |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
474
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Luh Windan wrote: What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.
for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4165
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Luh Windan wrote:What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply. for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass ThatGǪ doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
It's not like you're going to jail, nor do you have any shared parents that will disown you. They're your competitors, not your siblings.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
55
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
TLDR:The key word in the question is 'could', so my answer is yes.
CCP 'could' do a lot more about bots and botting, but I doubt they will be allowed to as long as true power of the company, the finance department, has a say. Bots are paying their bills, maybe indirectly, but they are paying them. So long as the income to CCP from bots is via subscriptions or GTCs it will be begrudgingly tolerated.
The only place I believe that you are going to see any action is against the RMT folks who are pocketing real world money for their in-game actions. There is a pretty clear understanding of what happens to RMT buyers in the game as one usually shows up about once a month in here claiming that 'life isn't fair and they didn't know', but the actual impact on the RMT market is a closely guarded secret (or completely unknown).
I would love to see a hardline stance on botting in this game, I even had hope about it when they announced back at FanFest that they were going to do something about botting. However, other than the initial shock of a small penalty ban the whole thing fell off the radar and the 'updates' that came out were nothing of real value or interest (and several months late). Since then, we've seen little and heard nothing.
The only indirect bone we have been thrown is the new BCs which make popping mining bots very easy, the other ones are still able to operate semi-unmolested (queue the anti-afk cloaky crowd). Yes, I only have a Vigil, I've had a bad bit of luck Ok? |

J Kunjeh
208
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote: I would love to see a hardline stance on botting in this game, I even had hope about it when they announced back at FanFest that they were going to do something about botting. However, other than the initial shock of a small penalty ban the whole thing fell off the radar and the 'updates' that came out were nothing of real value or interest (and several months late). Since then, we've seen little and heard nothing.
Here, here! But alas, money rules our world and as long as those botters keep paying their subs, I doubt anything serious will be done about them. Such a shame too. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |

Xavier Quo
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 15:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Yes. Nearly all the ISK making game mechanics are so predictable and of a low variety & interactivity they lend themselves very easily to being better & faster completed by bots then humans. EVE is described as a player run economy and currently that is a complete misnomer.
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Janis Ezra
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 21:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
I dont understand why everyone complains about mining bots. Those arent the ones who control and ruin the game. Those are only visible for everyone. The real threats are 0.0 bots, making 500m+ a day every day 23/7, and marketing bots. 99% of us will never even see them in space, therefore no one cares about them, but those bots ruin the game. |

Nirnias Stirrum
Ore Mongers
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 21:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
They can do alot more,
Iv reported several bots that i know 100% are bots and they are still around. Iv not only pressed the silly little report bot button which im sure doesnt actually do anything but have petitioned also. They are all still active.
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Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 21:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
Report-a-bot is just bullshit push button, receive popup. Message goes to some spam folder along with the ***** enlargement and nigerian scam mails. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
1865
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 21:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
The bots are a lie Linkage - Linkage ? Can you spot the timer settings?
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met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Chribba wrote:The bots are a lie Linkage - Linkage ? Can you spot the timer settings? Lol. There will be at least 2 players going "oh ****". |

Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M
46
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 23:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Luh Windan wrote: What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.
for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass
so assuming you are not an idiot and lack any understanding of economics: what you are trying to say is that you are all in it together?
ok. Since mining is a great love in - why not all agree to mine less and push the prices up. WIth a bit of collusion you could all agree to, say, only mine for an hour a day each - supply would drop but demand would remain constant (you would still all need the same gear and I assume that the rest of eve will stay roughly constant) and therefore mineral prices would rise. You might all need to experiment a bit but you could all end up doing dramatically less work for the same money.
you might want to read up about OPEC and how the oil industry tried to do keep prices high (and just in case you have forgotten you have the ability to blow your competitors up (mostly) unlike the oil industry). Right now you all seem in a stupid race to the bottom all determined to follow actions that will reduce your income all the time.
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