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Missing ship class in EVE

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Ezri Dax	Posted - 2004.01.08 09:07:00 - [1] Hi I just want to give my feeling about Eve class ships. My idea is that a class is missing in EVE : the bomber bomber would be a middle class between light ships known as fregates and medium class cruisers a bomber would as fast as a frigate but would be able to carry heavy weapons like heavy bombs which could destroy even a BS if a combined attack of several bombers is made. I think the combats would be a lot more strategic with this new class of ships and would not be limited to put only BS on the battlefield Hope the dev will read this BIG Corporation A small girl in a BIG world
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.01.08 09:08:00 - [2] Quote: Hi I just want to give my feeling about Eve class ships. My idea is that a class is missing in EVE : the bomber bomber would be a middle class between light ships known as fregates and medium class cruisers a bomber would as fast as a frigate but would be able to carry heavy weapons like heavy bombs which could destroy even a BS if a combined attack of several bombers is made. I think the combats would be a lot more strategic with this new class of ships and would not be limited to put only BS on the battlefield Hope the dev will read this It's called a Kestrel. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Centauri	Posted - 2004.01.08 09:12:00 - [3] Edited by: Centauri on 08/01/2004 09:14:59 I recall reading somewhere about a new ship class being built in an official interview with TomB I believe. Destroyer-class, meant to take out battleships. If they follow typical "classical" destroyer design they'll be faster than cruisers, though less well protected, and will more or less be configured to launch huge ammounts of ship-killer torpedoes. My "EVE interpretation" would be 4 or 5 missile slots, no turret slots, only one or two medium slots (to preven turning them into EW-boats to be exploited by griefers) and 5 or 6 low slots. They'd have similar protection to a level 2 cruiser, but they'd have less shields and more armour. Also, as aforementioned, it'd be faster than any other cruiser (though not as quick as a frigate). If a WWII Destroyer was turned into an EVE Destroyer, that's how I think it'd look Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2004.01.08 11:44:00 - [4] I like that destroyer bit.. i can imagine hearing our guys scream over ts shoot the dam destroyers quick STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Elithiomel	Posted - 2004.01.08 11:47:00 - [5] It is also known as a manticore. Kestrel based elite frigate with 6 launcher slots. --------------------------------------------- Engineers motto; If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
Ezri Dax	Posted - 2004.01.08 13:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Ezri Dax on 08/01/2004 13:11:02 Quote: It is also known as a manticore. Kestrel based elite frigate with 6 launcher slots. My idea of a "bomber" or "bs killer" is there's always a smaller ship able to deal with the biggest one and to hit their weak point. remember, even a bismark class battleship could be destroyed by a single U-Boote or a lucky diving bomber dropping a torpedo hitting the weak location of the ship. I see nothing like this in Eve, and players are encouraged to build as much BS as they can. Like in real life, I would love to see a BS destroyer ship, like a B-Wing in Star Wars. It would really change the way the battles take place and corporation would have to deal with all the classes of ship. BS vs BS & Cruisers Cruisers VS BS & Cruisers "Destroyers or bombers" VS all heavy ships Fregates VS Destroyers bombers never heard about a manticore ship ? can you give me more details please ? Is this Kestrel based elite frigate already available in the game ? BIG Corporation A small girl in a BIG world
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2004.01.08 13:49:00 - [7] Destroyers r not only Missile Boats!!! "We brake for nobody"
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.01.08 13:55:00 - [8] Quote: It is also known as a manticore. Kestrel based elite frigate with 6 launcher slots. 5 actually, and it won't be able to use cruise missiles since it's "only" an elite frigate.
Lucre	Posted - 2004.01.08 14:18:00 - [9] Quote: Destroyer-class, meant to take out battleships. If they follow typical "classical" destroyer design they'll be faster than cruisers, though less well protected, and will more or less be configured to launch huge ammounts of ship-killer torpedoes. ... If a WWII Destroyer was turned into an EVE Destroyer, that's how I think it'd look Well, if talking historically, let's flow historically. First up we had torpedo boats. Frigates with battleship-killer weapons. Then they introduce torpedo boat destroyers to protect the BS from the torpedo boats. They prove so effective at this (and are generally more useful as bigger and more seaworthy ships) that torpedo boats are soon deleted from main battle fleets and in a piece of delicious irony, the torpedoes and the battleship-killer role given to the "destroyers" instead... Would be historically satisfying if Eve followed a similar progression... :-)
XpoHoc	Posted - 2004.01.08 14:55:00 - [10] Quote: remember, even a bismark class battleship could be destroyed by a single U-Boote or a lucky diving bomber dropping a torpedo hitting the weak location of the ship. It took countless bombers till one of them got a lucky hit. The Bismark could only drive in circles from that on till the cruisers arrived. And still it took them long to take it out. Maybe I remind it wrong, but I think the destroyer class that "will" get introduced in EVE is meant to take cruisers and frigates out, because battleships are not built to do it well.
Damaclese	Posted - 2004.01.08 16:06:00 - [11] the bismark got hit in the rudder by a ww1 biplane torpedo carrier tigermoth fairymoth i cant remember which and they didnt use bombers but im all for the idea kinda like in wing commander the movie.. the game rocked too..mmm rapiers...... ship killer torpedos deffinetly make the big ships sweat.. also for any of you battle tech fans they had ship killer missiles that did huge dammage but were slow as hell id like to see a new class of missiles /torps that specifically target enemy systems take out a med slot or weapons bay knock out engines or targeting systems . loose mps or 2 targets that you had locked 1 of your beams gets trashed and you have to replace it .. this would make surviving combat more interesting not to mention it would add a factor of luck these missiles should be hella expensive and hard to use and the chance of it taking out a system and which system would be affected would be randon..if it happens pray its not buggy lol.. and now for the reply thread indicating that pvp is hard enough as it is lol and i agree it can be hard but hey! it could be more interesting as well
John McCreedy	Posted - 2004.01.08 16:54:00 - [12] I remember the same interview with TomB and Destroyers will be used to take out Elite Frigates and will be placed between Frigate and Cruiser class ships. Make a difference
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.01.08 17:00:00 - [13] Ummm btw, destroyers were mentioned as anti cruiser/frig fleet support type vessels, not as bship killers. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Talak Relketh	Posted - 2004.01.08 20:26:00 - [14] Quote: 5 actually, and it won't be able to use cruise missiles since it's "only" an elite frigate. Unless of course the M-12 II can hold a cruise or two --- Mispellars of teh wrold untie!
Eneroth	Posted - 2004.01.09 07:35:00 - [15] Quote: I like that destroyer bit.. i can imagine hearing our guys scream over ts shoot the dam destroyers quick Why scream? Only makes things worse and there should only be one person calling the shots usegang chat for stuff like if u are beeing jammed or something and let the leader have radio silence and make him decide what to do. When i was in bio they were very calm on ts which was very good. -Any fool can pull a trigger.-
Elithiomel	Posted - 2004.01.09 07:58:00 - [16] Edited by: Elithiomel on 09/01/2004 07:59:40 oops, got mixed up. Yes the Manticore does only have 5 launchers, but the Nighthawk has 6 The stats for the elite frigates are all listed in the eve-db along with all the standard frigates now. But, for the lazy , i will post them :) Name Nighthawk Group Elite Frigate Race Caldari Description Hull: Rifter Class Developer: Brutor Angels Role: Assault Frigate Special: 90% less cpu need for Modules requiring Advanced Gunnery Base Price 934176 Structure hp 315 Capacity m3 Drone Capacity 0 m3 Mass 2810000 kg Volume 28100 m3 Signature Radius 30 Max Velocity 255 m/s Armor Armor 320 hp Armor Em Damage Resistance 70% Armor Explosive Damage Resistance 9% Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance 35% Armor Thermal Damage Resistance 44% Shield Shield HP 265 hp Shield Recharge Time 500.00s Shield Em Damage Resistance 9% Shield Explosive Damage Resistance 60% Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance 40% Shield Thermal Damage Resistance 30% Capacitor Capacitor Capacity 200 Recharge time 150 s Targeting Maximum Targeting Range 30000 m Max Locked Targets 6 Scan Speed 2.00 s Scan Resolution LADAR Sensor Strength 11 points Magnetometric Sensor Strength points RADAR Sensor Strength points Gravimetric Sensor Strength points Fitting CPU 175 tf Powergrid 35 MW LowSlots 2 MedSlots 3 HiSlots 6 Turret hardpoints Launcher hardpoints 6 Required Skills Primary Skill required Caldari Frigate Level 5 Secondary Skill required Bombers Level 5 Name Manticore Group Elite Frigate Race Caldari Description Hull: Kestrel Class Developer: Lai Dai Lai Dai ships favor a balanced mix of ship systems making them very versatile but also making them less powerful in specific tactics. Role: Bomber 15% X Bomber skill level bonus to light missile amd rocket ranges per bomber level Base Price 940640 Structure hp 315 Capacity m3 Drone Capacity 0 m3 Mass 2810000 kg Volume 28100 m3 Signature Radius 30 Max Velocity 255 m/s Armor Armor 320 hp Armor Em Damage Resistance 60% Armor Explosive Damage Resistance 9% Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance 44% Armor Thermal Damage Resistance 44% Shield Shield HP 265 hp Shield Recharge Time 500.00s Shield Em Damage Resistance 9% Shield Explosive Damage Resistance 60% Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance 50% Shield Thermal Damage Resistance 30% Capacitor Capacitor Capacity 200 Recharge time 150 s Targeting Maximum Targeting Range 30000 m Max Locked Targets 6 Scan Speed 2.00 s Scan Resolution LADAR Sensor Strength 11 points Magnetometric Sensor Strength points RADAR Sensor Strength points Gravimetric Sensor Strength points Fitting CPU 175 tf Powergrid 35 MW LowSlots 3 MedSlots 4 HiSlots 5 Turret hardpoints Launcher hardpoints 5 Required Skills Primary Skill required Caldari Frigate Level 5 Secondary Skill required Bombers Level 5
Ezri Dax	Posted - 2004.01.09 12:35:00 - [17] The Kestrel Class seems to be the best frigate class vessel able to handle an anti-BS mission with let's say 2 heavy missiles loaded in a M12 (correct me if I'm wrong) Of course one Kestrel is not enough but several ones operating together could make a BS life like hell if used at the same time with other ship classes. I hope to see in the Elite Frigate the "B-Wing" or "Torpedo boat" I'd like to see added in EVE to make the space combats even more complex and strategic thanks for the information guys BIG Corporation A small girl in a BIG world
White Tiger	Posted - 2004.01.09 12:48:00 - [18] Edited by: White Tiger on 09/01/2004 12:56:13 Quote: the bismark got hit in the rudder by a ww1 biplane torpedo carrier tigermoth fairymoth i cant remember which and they didnt use bombers Swordfish...The aircraft used by the Royal Navy that assisted in the sinking of the Bismarck was a Hadley Swordfish... edit: Corrected spelling errors... White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."
Denst Rowell	Posted - 2004.01.09 13:08:00 - [19] Quote: Edited by: Centauri on 08/01/2004 09:14:59 I recall reading somewhere about a new ship class being built in an official interview with TomB I believe. Destroyer-class, meant to take out battleships. If they follow typical "classical" destroyer design they'll be faster than cruisers, though less well protected, and will more or less be configured to launch huge ammounts of ship-killer torpedoes. My "EVE interpretation" would be 4 or 5 missile slots, no turret slots, only one or two medium slots (to preven turning them into EW-boats to be exploited by griefers) and 5 or 6 low slots. They'd have similar protection to a level 2 cruiser, but they'd have less shields and more armour. Also, as aforementioned, it'd be faster than any other cruiser (though not as quick as a frigate). If a WWII Destroyer was turned into an EVE Destroyer, that's how I think it'd look thought ireconised that ugly mug cent the destroyer class is meant to be a counter for large groups of frigs armed with fast tracking small guns and lots of them ccp s idea that bs should not really be able to hit fast frigs and a group of frigs should slowley be able to pound a bs to the ground. hence the need for a anti frig ship (destroyer) itll mean u will have to work in groups bs for cruiser + destroyers. frig wings for bs . destroyers for frigs and cruisers for support. this setup means you have to consider fleet configs befor amassing 5 bs and heavy cruisers and just tach lassering the hell out off everyone. ----------------------------------------------- The Return Of Denst
AtoningUnifex	Posted - 2004.01.09 13:33:00 - [20] White Tiger, The manufacturer of the Swordfish was Fairey. see www.faqs.org ------------------------ Collector and flyer of starships
Scragg	Posted - 2004.01.09 14:26:00 - [21] Lets be real for a moment. What your asking for is a ship with a hell of a punch at a cheap cost. So, you can deal a lot of damage but take little risk since it will be cheap and you don't loose much if it gets destroyed. I think this is a bad idea. As a matter of fact I think the devs will agree since they are in the process of nerfing the damage dealing ability of some frigates with various missile types. You want to do big damage? You will need to take big risk. Scragg, Tyrell Corporation Vice-Director Military Operations
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.01.09 14:35:00 - [22] "You want to do big damage? You will need to take big risk." ... Going against heavy target in a frigate is a much biger risk to get the ticket to clone factory, than the battleship pilot has to face. It means you are quite likely to pay the cost of implants (up to ~50 mil with current market prices) or pay the cost of slow training if you choose to not plug the implants out of fear you're going to lose them. Dunno, seems balanced to me. Much more that getting cheap ship, high risk and no chance to do any noticeable damage, anyway.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.01.09 14:37:00 - [23] Quote: Lets be real for a moment. What your asking for is a ship with a hell of a punch at a cheap cost. So, you can deal a lot of damage but take little risk since it will be cheap and you don't loose much if it gets destroyed. I think this is a bad idea. As a matter of fact I think the devs will agree since they are in the process of nerfing the damage dealing ability of some frigates with various missile types. You want to do big damage? You will need to take big risk. With 80 million of implants strapped in your head, you are taking a lot of risks in a small ship, imo. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Durandal	Posted - 2004.01.09 15:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Durandal on 09/01/2004 15:34:52 I still want to see kamakazi ships . Smaller than a cruiser but with its shields and armour, larger than a frigate but with its speed. Cost more than top end cruisers (say 10-12mill isk) but only has med slots that let you fit AB's, shield boosters/hardeners or warp scramblers. Once you lock on to a BS you can choose to 'destroy target' (like set destination) from right clicking on it, and the final run towards the target starts when you hit autopilot. It would cause damage by overloading your warp drive on impact, and could have a time limit of say 10secs, so that once autopilot is activated you must reach the target quickly or else you blow up for nothing. It should be capable of taking out 2/3rds BS shields or 1/2 hull/armour in one go. Not a practical ship for anything except a corp or alliances navy, but it would be fun. On a more serious note the idea of destroyers sounds really good, and I hope that when elite frigs become more common they are seen as part of battlegroups (anti-BS fighters). "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
Damaclese	Posted - 2004.01.09 15:49:00 - [25] thanks white tiger I should know this
Scragg	Posted - 2004.01.09 15:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Scragg on 09/01/2004 15:59:21 Quote: With 80 million of implants strapped in your head, you are taking a lot of risks in a small ship, imo. IF you choose to drive a small disposable ship with and have 80 million ISK worth of implant. Or you can use no implants and a noob with a few hundred thousand skill points and mitigate your losses when you get vaporized. Destroyers where never meant to take on battleships. The term destroyers is short for gun boat destroyer. They where meant to protect large expensive ships and convoys from being damaged small gun boats and submarines. Anyway... never fear I htink the tech II frigates might fill this little niche. We will have to wait until we see a few buzizng around to see. Scragg, Tyrell Corporation Vice-Director Military Operations
Durandal	Posted - 2004.01.09 16:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Durandal on 09/01/2004 16:11:59 Quote: Quote: With 80 million of implants strapped in your head, you are taking a lot of risks in a small ship, imo. IF you choose to drive a small disposable ship with and have 80 million ISK worth of implant. Or you can use no implants and a noob with a few hundred thousand skill points and mitigate your losses when you get vaporized. Destroyers where never meant to take on battleships. The term destroyers is short for gun boat destroyer. They where meant to protect large expensive ships and convoys from being damaged small gun boats and submarines. It would be impossible to usea n00b with a few 100k skill points to use the destroyers/bombers/elite frigs since the req skills would be way too high. You would have to use your main or spend over a month training up an alt - so the risk is definitely there. And there is nothing to say these destroyers can't be short for battleship destroyer though. As it stands a gun boat destroyer would be pointless as there are no small gun boats and submarine equivilent ships that can cause damage to a BS. It would be great to have a situation where Eve destoyers working together (4-5) would be able to take out a BS, not easily but in a way that is similar to a 1v1 BS fight where you are outmatched. Then the cruisers have another support role in that they take out the destroyers, and the elite frigs working in 2's - 4's take out those cruisers and/or the other enemy elite frigs. The role of the battleship is not diminished as they are going to be knocking seven shades of sht out of each other (as is the case now), and also player owned structures etc. I think this would be much more fun and interesting, as a battlegroup would not be a case of "right lets get 15 BS's together and go wup ass"......there would need to be more thought, more player interaction/team work and a reliance on corp/alliance mates "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"*
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.01.09 16:20:00 - [28] "IF you choose to drive a small disposable ship with and have 80 million ISK worth of implant. Or you can use no implants and a noob with a few hundred thousand skill points and mitigate your losses when you get vaporized." ... Then the real issue is with a new character being able to use advanced weaponry with little training, not with cheap ship doing serious damage. You != your ship. Perhaps training time to use heaviest missiles (cruise missiles and torpedoes) should be made comparable to the training needed for large turrets: e.g., it would require Heavy Missiles (medium weapon) at lvl.4, which in turn would require Standard Missiles also at lvl.4 o.O;
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2004.01.09 19:44:00 - [29] Yeah right... there isn¦t even a balance between shiplclasses existing in this game and you want new classes added. Sorry but they need to fix the current classes before they do anything else. There¦s so much unused PvP potential in the ships already in the game it¦s crazy. As said they need to balance existing stuff out before adding anything new... at least when it comes to ships. Mai's Idealog
Damaclese	Posted - 2004.01.12 15:53:00 - [30] a small cheap ship with a big punch mmmmm try pt-boats with out the magnetic detonators on the tops it carried or even a corvette cheap armed and fast both classes have proved their worth agains much larger targets

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