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Dorothy Wayneright
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Posted - 2004.01.08 11:56:00 -
[1]
I just thought this would be interesting for CCP to read sense they seem to have a no help policy as well in regards to problems that 'they' create let along hackers.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/fun.games/12/19/china.gamer.reut/index.html
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.01.08 11:58:00 -
[2]
Old news... 
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.01.08 13:09:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
In the end, Beijing's Chaoyang District People's Court ruled on Thursday that the firm should restore the player's lost items, finding the company liable because of loopholes in the server programs that made it easy for hackers to break in.
Firstly this was a case of hacking the devs servers which has not and will most likely never occur in EVE.
Secondly CCP have protected themselves from this kind of lawsuit because you agree before playing this game that CCP are not liable for anykind of ingame theft using game mechanics or social engineering/misplaced trust.
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Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.01.08 13:36:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Quote:
In the end, Beijing's Chaoyang District People's Court ruled on Thursday that the firm should restore the player's lost items, finding the company liable because of loopholes in the server programs that made it easy for hackers to break in.
Firstly this was a case of hacking the devs servers which has not and will most likely never occur in EVE.
Secondly CCP have protected themselves from this kind of lawsuit because you agree before playing this game that CCP are not liable for anykind of ingame theft using game mechanics or social engineering/misplaced trust.
Nice try but in most European countries the EULA will have no legal value whatsoever. Where I come from there are laws that supersede agreements by parties. One of these laws protects customers against companies forcing EULA's on them.
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Fausto
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Posted - 2004.01.08 13:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Fausto on 08/01/2004 13:41:54
So good and true Laws are higher then any agreement even a written contract. We just have to wait for somone to sue CCP
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<brainpodder> |
Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.01.08 13:42:00 -
[6]
Right, EULA's are not automatically iron-clad even though they do go a long way to protecting both parties because they spell things out.
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Torath
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Posted - 2004.01.08 13:49:00 -
[7]
Who gives a flying f**k, why are you even discussing this. Save it for a group of people who give a damn!!!!
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Val Amon
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Posted - 2004.01.08 14:00:00 -
[8]
No one better F with my 1001110110001110's I'll sue for sure. Except I hate lawyers so I'd just go buy a case of beer.
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How many pilots does it take to wire a Flux Capacitor?
3, 1 to wire it and 2 to talk about how the old one was better. |
Koda
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Posted - 2004.01.08 15:13:00 -
[9]
Actually someone hacking the server and stealing your stuff has nothing to with game mechanics or misplaced trust. It is a completely out-of-game tactic and wouldn't be covered under this release from liability.
If I got swindled into buying a condor that someone named "Scorpion," or was stupid enough to give someone my log-in info. I have no recourse. But losing your in-game possessions due to hacking is strictly real-world theft.
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Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.01.08 16:00:00 -
[10]
Quote:
But losing your in-game possessions due to hacking is strictly real-world theft.
Except that you don't HAVE any in-game possessions. It all belongs to CCP, including your character as well as everything in his hold, hangar, drone bay or anywhere else.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
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Quantum Gopher
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Posted - 2004.01.12 00:44:00 -
[11]
It's data theft.
We pay CCP to maintain the data we "collect" and manage (character data/items etc.). Both parties invest time and effort. The data has value, both to the person who works with it (us) and the persons who maintain it (CCP). If it is stolen, both parties lose (time, effort etc). Backups are a normal part of maintenance and data can (should) be restored, but true theft must be proven and prosecuted. IMHO.
Q. Gopher
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I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:40:00 -
[12]
Quote:
It's data theft.
We pay CCP to maintain the data we "collect" and manage (character data/items etc.).
Wrong. We pay CCP for the right to play the game and have fun. We have no possession of any data at all.
You tried suing somebody for swiping Trafalgar Square in the last Monopoly game even though you used to own it in the one before? 
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Samsson
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:58:00 -
[13]
Bolder , be real rules, regulations and law are usally guides towards common sense and decency , violate those principles and any jury or judge will nullify some stupid EULA
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Seraphim Malificio
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Posted - 2004.01.12 01:59:00 -
[14]
tsk tsk
- Wisdom is nothing without perception -
CEO, Azraels Disciples
Recruiting join channel "Azras" |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:23:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Wrong. We pay CCP for the right to play the game and have fun.
Actually you're wrong. We have no 'right' to 'play'.
We employ CCP to provide a service. The contract between us and them is just that. Could CCP find themselves liable if there are stipulations that they must live up to? To some degree yes. In the case of things such as discrimination and fraud all companies have potential liability.
The only rights we have are those provided to us via the laws of the land we live in and other international treaty.
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javer
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Posted - 2004.01.12 02:48:00 -
[16]
may i point out that in most countrys this then comes under the rules and regs of the laws concerning service providers. and those wary greatly from country to country
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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
Rhoklaw
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Posted - 2004.01.12 11:53:00 -
[17]
So, hypothetically speaking, which retard has to sit down and come up with real life monetary value that equals the value of the data?
<imagines someone sitting at a table tapping a pencil on a blank piece of paper>
"Ok, I think a Scorpion battleship is worth $15.00. That being because most players seem to brag about earning 3 million isk or more a day. If thats true, then 3 million x 30 days = 90 million isk which is roughly the cost of a new Scorpion. Since 30 days of gaming costs under $15.00, then generosity is in favor of the suing party."
<reality break>
To be honest, I for the love of life itself, can't understand where prices for some MMO items, money or whatever data sells can get the prices it does. I even think there was an article of someone who buys and sells MMO items via Ebay and actually claims this as his major source of income on his tax form. Good heavens, can we get a grip on reality folks. I just saw someone pay $2,500 for a DAoC account with multiple level 50 characters, loads of items and bunch of other crap. Even if DAoC has been around for 5 years, which it hasn't, thats more then $500 a year in assets for playing a game? It costs $240 a year to play a game, so where do they get their prices?
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.01.12 23:50:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Even if DAoC has been around for 5 years, which it hasn't, thats more then $500 a year in assets for playing a game? It costs $240 a year to play a game, so where do they get their prices?
From time. Time is money, think it as mining in EVE. If you mine ore, you spend 1hrs to gain x resources. How much money is that 1hrs worth to you?
Personally I don't pickup dropped coins, since generally I make more money in the time it takes me to pick up that coin. So the time (and trouble) saved is worth more to me than the value of that coin.
So if your time is 1000$/hrs, then an 2500$ account is like peanuts.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Rhoklaw
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Posted - 2004.01.13 09:44:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Even if DAoC has been around for 5 years, which it hasn't, thats more then $500 a year in assets for playing a game? It costs $240 a year to play a game, so where do they get their prices?
From time. Time is money, think it as mining in EVE. If you mine ore, you spend 1hrs to gain x resources. How much money is that 1hrs worth to you?
Personally I don't pickup dropped coins, since generally I make more money in the time it takes me to pick up that coin. So the time (and trouble) saved is worth more to me than the value of that coin.
So if your time is 1000$/hrs, then an 2500$ account is like peanuts.
Well, Im not saying your approach is all wrong, but uhm, I think you left out the fact that this is a game, not a job. If you honestly think you deserve to be paid $1000/hr let alone $10/hr to play this game, your crazy. No wait, the stupid people who actually pay for data so this is true are crazy, yeah, thats it.
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Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.01.13 11:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Asharee Intrefer on 13/01/2004 11:04:28
Quote:
Even if DAoC has been around for 5 years, which it hasn't, thats more then $500 a year in assets for playing a game? It costs $240 a year to play a game, so where do they get their prices?
Basic market rules of supply and (most important) demand, combined with the fact that in our instincts is the Need To Be Someone, to have status and be respected. If you can't Be Someone in real life, maybe the possibility of Being Someone in a little fantasy world is a satisfactory substitute... And I guess as this need for respect is one of the strongest of our instincts people are willing to pay, and when people pay, there are always others willing to take advantage of that, so that they in turn get money to satisfy their own needs.
Oh well, that's enough speculations from my pseudo-psychology department for today. 
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