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Megadon
Caldari
Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.24 20:31:00 -
[1]
I'm pretty much split down the middle as far as skills go between Caldari and Amarr and have been looking at these two ships and trying to decide what races capital ships I want to train for since I'm at a cross roads.
Wanted to get some input and see what everyone generally thought. What are some opinions vs these two ships and how do their roles differ or do they that much?
If you have one, what do you love/hate about it? Thanks!
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.05.24 20:35:00 -
[2]
Archon looks 500x cooler, and doesn't look like a battleship.
Chimera... well. Looks like a battleship, and could probably be mistaken for a rokh. [A good thing?]
Thats about all I know. But we all know looks are most important. 
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juduzz
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.24 20:35:00 -
[3]
chimera looks sexy nuff said ( well in rev 2) proberly tanks better then the archon for a shorter pperiod of time but archons tank proberlylasts longer.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.24 21:01:00 -
[4]
Chimera is difficuilt to fit in the way most people would like to because Capital Boosters and Shield Transfers take an absurd amount of CPU. Shield tank uses lots of mid-slots too, which lessens your ability to fit Sensor boosters/Warp Disruptors/Cap rechargers, but the Archon kinda suffers there too.
Archon fits fine, but lacks Mids for Sensor boosters/Warp Disruptors/Cap rechargers. Still decent though.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.24 21:07:00 -
[5]
According to you the best carrier is the thanatos I guess :P
Imo, archon is better than chimera due to no fitting issues. It's also better than the thanatos as a front line ship because it tanks way better, the extra damage from drones isn't THAT important...
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Lore Isander
Caldari
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.05.24 21:37:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ryysa
According to you the best carrier is the thanatos I guess :P
Imo, archon is better than chimera due to no fitting issues. It's also better than the thanatos as a front line ship because it tanks way better, the extra damage from drones isn't THAT important...
Qft :)
I fly Archon too.
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Megadon
Caldari
Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.24 23:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chronus26
Chimera is difficuilt to fit in the way most people would like to because Capital Boosters and Shield Transfers take an absurd amount of CPU. Shield tank uses lots of mid-slots too, which lessens your ability to fit Sensor boosters/Warp Disruptors/Cap rechargers, but the Archon kinda suffers there too.
Archon fits fine, but lacks Mids for Sensor boosters/Warp Disruptors/Cap rechargers. Still decent though.
yeah that was my conundrum. but it seemed like the archon overall would be a better tanker. seems like the balance of opinio is leaning towards the archon which is good because I don't really want to train more caldari.
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Vice Royy
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.24 23:38:00 -
[8]
If you're going to be flying in fleets, it's the Archon. Armor tanks are the only viable options (unless you drop quite a few billions on officer fittings) since you really don't want to have to micromanage your tank in heavy lag. In small-gang and solo, I would probably go with the Chimera since it has a better short-term tank and the mid-slots to tackle.
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Rylet VanDorn
Pastafarians
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2007.05.24 23:39:00 -
[9]
Chimera can field a better tank with faction equipment (DG Invulnerabilities, etc). With standard gear, the Archon is preferable.
As far as ship bonuses, the Archon or Thanatos are going to be better gang support ships, since the majority of PVP ships used are armor tanks. With CCP's desire to get cap ships into the fight, and the implementation of Triage mode, I think the Archon is going to end up being the ideal carrier to use for support.
BTW the Chimera's appearance has been fixed on Sisi, and is now the size of an actual carrier. It's center point has been corrected as well.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.25 00:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ryysa
According to you the best carrier is the thanatos I guess :P
Imo, archon is better than chimera due to no fitting issues. It's also better than the thanatos as a front line ship because it tanks way better, the extra damage from drones isn't THAT important...
TBH Archon and Thanatos are about equal in my oppinion. Neither damage nor tank actually matter as much as you think because:
A) Fighters do a lot of damage unbonused anyway, and half the time mine dont even seem to make it to the target.
B) I've been in more engagments in my Carrier now than I can count on all my fingers and toes, and i've never even come close to hitting armor - let alone pushing my tank.
Tank will only really play a part if your sat stuck on your own - in which case you've probably made a big mistake. It doesn't make sense to shoot the Carrier -'the big tank'- while he still has friends to shoot back at you (When flying Carriers your gang is more important than any mod you could fit). The best defence a Carrier can have is his support, and the best way to ensure he has the support he needs is to support them with Remote Logistics. Tank is just there for extraordinary circuimstances, for instance Dreads or maybe a foolish enemy FC, or even playing bait.
Yeah, having a really pimp tank is cool, but think about it. If your Tackled and your gang is gone, what good will that tank do you? You'll still go down, just that little bit slower.
What does the Thanatos have the Archon doesn't?
Well, its got those extra mids for a little extra Cap recharge, and it can hold a few more fighters (which I don't agree with BTW, I'd love to see the other Carriers get a dronebay increase to be on par).
What does the Archon have that the Thanatos doesn't?
Bigger overall cap but same base cap/s, less mids for Cap Rechargers, but I think the tank bonus makes up for that - Higher resists means the Archon can tank the same DPS as the Thanatos with less rep cycles, so (in theory at least) less cap usage. Both Carriers have to sacrifice tank sustainability to fit dual Sensor Boosters for instance, just the downside of the Archons 4 mids is that it looses a little more than the Thanatos does.
Thats the way I view things anyway, everybody has their own oppinions... In any case, both are awsome Carriers, i'd be happy flying either in the field as things stand.
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Markus Aurelian
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Posted - 2007.05.26 05:44:00 -
[11]
archon is the better tanker. with officer tanking mods and the skills you can get a 90% weakest resist dual rep tank. this comes of course at the cost of sensorboosted mids. but id sacrifice a sensorbooster for it if i had the cash to fly an archon.
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Aries Acheron
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.26 08:04:00 -
[12]
Chimera is the best battlecruiser in the game. Nobody'll primary that in a fight. :P
But seriously, the Archon seems to have more going for it. A better tank really is the kicker, given the fitting issues of CSB's.
~~~
Action! Suspense! Jita!
Eve Tribune
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
Free Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.26 08:31:00 -
[13]
Well with caldari if you wanna upgrade in size from the raven go chim...Then once you want something bigger go rokh .
Chim and archon both are nearly identical besides the kind of tanks,one is easy to keep lasting forever the other not...id go with the archon.
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Yes it is great being amarr.
I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Cramps
Fungal Infection
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Posted - 2007.05.26 08:37:00 -
[14]
I'm surprised no smart ass has come into this topic yet and bragged about how easy it is to fit your Chimera without faction mods or a co-processor as long as "you know what you're doing" without actually being any help at all. It's probably only a matter of time before they jump in now, I suppose :)
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Liam Fremen
Gallente
Global Isk Network
NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 08:47:00 -
[15]
Every time people talk about carriers... people not even mention nidhoggur :(
Do i am the only dumbass flying it? :(
Unitevi alla crociata contro gli sfigati di EvE, gli AESC! |
Cramps
Fungal Infection
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Posted - 2007.05.26 08:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cramps on 26/05/2007 08:55:27
Originally by: Liam Fremen
Every time people talk about carriers... people not even mention nidhoggur :(
Do i am the only dumbass flying it? :(
Well, it doesn't have enough CPU for a shield tank + capital logistics, and it has a 5-slot armor tank. Admittedly that's just my own personal assessment, I don't fly one and I came to that conclusion only from tinkering in QuickFit. At least it looks really cool! But hey, what really matters is that it works for you, and you can always hope that CCP will give it somewhat of a nudge in the right direction at some point.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.26 09:09:00 -
[17]
Archon > Chimera
Shield tanking is affected by lag as it is very hard to keep a Cap SB on the Chimera 23/7 boosting. And even if you do, the Chimera will be very vulnerable to NOS.
On the other hand, the Archon can tank in excess of 6000 DPS with the Thanatos in 2nd place - as armor tankers go, with 3500 DPS or so.
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Liam Fremen
Gallente
Global Isk Network
NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.26 09:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cramps
Edited by: Cramps on 26/05/2007 08:55:27
Originally by: Liam Fremen
Every time people talk about carriers... people not even mention nidhoggur :(
Do i am the only dumbass flying it? :(
Well, it doesn't have enough CPU for a shield tank + capital logistics, and it has a 5-slot armor tank. Admittedly that's just my own personal assessment, I don't fly one and I came to that conclusion only from tinkering in QuickFit. At least it looks really cool! But hey, what really matters is that it works for you, and you can always hope that CCP will give it somewhat of a nudge in the right direction at some point.
Well.. the thing that make me go mad is that i got 6 med, i armortank it but i spend my med for recharing cap and i got about the same as a thanatos for cap/sec while having 1 less low slot :P so it's crap for this!
Btw, i always fit 1 shield and 1 armor remote capital repper and it works a charme with 4 sec timer.
Check me out! I'm so badass that i scare off myself! |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.26 09:21:00 -
[19]
Chimera is okay for fitting..a 1 bil ship deserves a 1 bil fitting and DG invu fields use very little CPU, and if you go with best named PDU's and IFFA instead of DCU-II you can shave off quite a bit right there.
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Markus Aurelian
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:15:00 -
[20]
lol. an archon with simple t2 mods can tank about as much as a high end faction fitted nidhoggur. until the nid gets a boost, its a support ship that doesnt hold up as well as the others. The chimera is a good ship, but imo the archon is better. why have a ship with an unsustainable tank in pvp when you know a lag spike or disconnect will cost you quite a bit of hard work?with rigs and faction fitting the archon can tank 8535 dps 0o. permanently. soon as i can afford it, ill be buying one.
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:20:00 -
[21]
I like Archon best. It has best tank, and best capacitor of carriers.
On a related note, I think Revelation is the best dread too. So +2 for Amarr.
If you had the other problem, you were caldari and didn't know if you should go for pheonix or chimera, I'd say Chimera because the pheonix is a pretty terrible dread.
-Bart
CCP: please fix the asteroids in the new regions.
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Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.05.26 19:26:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen on 26/05/2007 19:26:04
Somebody mentioned that the nidhoggur wasn't mentioned  The Nidhoggur is the best support carrier easily, because it gets bonuses to shield and armor transfer range, the only other carrier which gets those is the thanatos and it doesn't get the -25% duration bonus the nid does.
Archon tanks the most, chimera tanks a lot but runs out of cap ...etc really doesn't matter in the end. Like Chronus said, for the most part you won't even get shot at; what you have to defend against is dampening. In this case, the 6 medslot nidhoggur comes in first place You have plenty of meds to pull this off, and even some eccm if you wish, while slapping a basic armor tank in your low slots just in case. Your main issue will be having cap enough ...
As far as the support role goes, I'd say it's nidhoggur -> thanatos -> archon -> chimera [which gets last because it's quite difficult to fit]. You'll do fine with any of them, though.
Good luck making your choice 
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