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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:59:00 -
[1]
From my posted reply to another OP:
I support nerfing local.
I think that there should not even be an indication of the number of pilots in system.
If you want to know the number of pilots in system, you should have to use a scanner.
There should be active and passive scanners.
Active scanners give your position away to any passive scanners.
Passive scanners are more vague in terms of their results.
Probes should also be divided into active and passive.
Anytime you chat in local should give away your position.
If you fire weapons, it gives away your position.
It would turn the game into the equivalent of submarine warfare. It might be VERY possible for you to get a first shot on someone (passive scan, passive targeting) before they even know you're there. This would make stealth bombers very, very dangerous.
At a default, anyone within 200km (visual range) should show up (look, a star destroyer!). Past that, you should have to use scanners and probes.
This would also put limits on large blobs - because it would be difficult to keep the presence of a large force of ships secret. A couple of ships may have an advantage over a larger force, because they have a better chance of remaining undetected, and getting in a first shot.
This would also give a lot of value to the alpha strike.
I also believe that warp to zero should stay in the game - but as you know, you might bump into a gate or a station.
Bumping, whether intentional or by accident, should result in damage related to impact velocity and the relative masses of the objects involved.
Thus, warp to zero is taking a chance at colliding with a gate or station. Just a chance - but a finite one.
This would also encourage suicide intys (kamikaze Condors, etc).
Bumping as a tactic to prevent other ships from aligning to warp would still work - but would become a risky endeavor, especially with a small inty colliding with a freighter. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
fullmetalpwn
The Imperial Assassins
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:03:00 -
[2]
Sounds like fun. ~-------------------------------------~
Originally by: "Alumion" Welcome to EVE, where many wars are started over forum posts.
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Vitrael
Stormriders Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:04:00 -
[3]
No local = you don't know when to scan = you are ALWAYS scanning. Personally I think the scan system would need to be really fun for this to work.
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Quietrader
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:25:00 -
[4]
Not entirely, by the OP's suggestion, your passive scanner would pick up any weapons fire or anyone actively scanning. You might not notice someone if they are doing absolutely nothing unless you actively hunt for them, but people that are otherwise engaged would be noticed by the passive scanner and then you could consider going for an active scan. Doing the active scan would give away your presence if they are watching their passive scanner though (for example).
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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:30:00 -
[5]
So, if someone is ratting, they are auto-giving away their position to a pirate/neg/whatever while they themselves have no idea?
Are you trying to make it too easy to kill someone...? If so, this will work.
You nerf local, you need a better scanner in the game. Otherwise everyone will click "Scan" every 3 seconds and thus give everyone severe carpal tunnel, nerfing subscriptions. - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:47:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/05/2007 16:47:10 When belts are removed and exploration content gets improved, it was also said that every ship gets a new scanner built in that allows it to find the new-non static plexes and the lesser exploration content.
I was already wondering, if this scanner in not only meant for that pve content, but will replace local as a reconaissance tool someday.( local getting a nerf then ). But I've no idea about that scanner in detail, the dev-blog was really vague about it. One line or so.
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Dkorg
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:59:00 -
[7]
I like your idea but there's a major flaw with it. You want weapons fire to give away position but you make no mention of jump gate activation giving away position. Is this an oversight or a pro-gank bias?
Chat should not give away your location but simply let people know you are in the system. Once again pro-gank bias.
I love the active/passive scanner idea. Just a heads up that someone pointed an active scanner at you makes for great cat and mouse. It would also reduce the click fest that is defensive scanning.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dkorg I like your idea but there's a major flaw with it. You want weapons fire to give away position but you make no mention of jump gate activation giving away position. Is this an oversight or a pro-gank bias?
Chat should not give away your location but simply let people know you are in the system. Once again pro-gank bias.
I love the active/passive scanner idea. Just a heads up that someone pointed an active scanner at you makes for great cat and mouse. It would also reduce the click fest that is defensive scanning.
You should see jump gate activation on a passive scanner, but have no idea what ship came in.
Talking in local just gives away your position - not who or what you are. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:12:00 -
[9]
If there is no local, and no way to know when ships are nearby, fine - but either remove all nerfs on warp stabs, or completely remove any method of stopping someone from warping off.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris If there is no local, and no way to know when ships are nearby, fine - but either remove all nerfs on warp stabs, or completely remove any method of stopping someone from warping off.
Why?
If they can see you on a scanner, why shouldn't they be able to target you with a scrambler? ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:46:00 -
[11]
I think warp disruption of any kind is a lame tactic in the first place. Being able to pounce on someone and warp disrupt without any type of warning makes it all the more lame.
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War Fairy
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Agent Li
You should see jump gate activation on a passive scanner, but have no idea what ship came in.
Talking in local just gives away your position - not who or what you are.
What's the logic behind talking giving away position? It eliminates any form of communication. That's a bad thing.
Does firing show up on passive or anytime. You're non specific about that.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: War Fairy
Originally by: Agent Li
You should see jump gate activation on a passive scanner, but have no idea what ship came in.
Talking in local just gives away your position - not who or what you are.
What's the logic behind talking giving away position? It eliminates any form of communication. That's a bad thing.
Does firing show up on passive or anytime. You're non specific about that.
Firing shows up on passive.
In the case of firing or talking, it just gives away position - not who or what you are. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
War Fairy
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Posted - 2007.05.25 18:05:00 -
[14]
I repeat:
What's the logic behind talking giving away position? It eliminates any form of communication. That's a bad thing.
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Sekket
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Posted - 2007.05.25 18:34:00 -
[15]
perhaps is the new scanners had a radar feature, so you wouldn't have to hit rescan every second.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 18:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: War Fairy I repeat:
What's the logic behind talking giving away position? It eliminates any form of communication. That's a bad thing.
No, it doesn't.
In real life, using your radio gives away your position.
We could assume that the Corp channel was an encrypted communication not detectable, but local is the equivalent of broadcasting in the clear. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 19:04:00 -
[17]
Oh, and in my proposal, I would NOT nerf cloaks. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
War Fairy
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Posted - 2007.05.25 19:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Agent Li
In real life, using your radio gives away your position.
No what's the game balance reason? In RL is never an acceptable answer. Why do ships have a max speed? In RL that's impossible. In RL I would be able to move drones from cargo to drone bay. In RL EVE couldn't exist.
How does talking giving away position make the game better?
Oh and how do you know I'm not bouncing it over the curvature of the earth?
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.05.25 19:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: War Fairy
Originally by: Agent Li
In real life, using your radio gives away your position.
No what's the game balance reason? In RL is never an acceptable answer. Why do ships have a max speed? In RL that's impossible. In RL I would be able to move drones from cargo to drone bay. In RL EVE couldn't exist.
How does talking giving away position make the game better?
Oh and how do you know I'm not bouncing it over the curvature of the earth?
It would make you more cautious about giving away your position.
Let's say a blob got together to set up an ambush.
But one person in that blob accidentally talked in local, instead of in corp channel.
Surprise would be lost.
The idea here is to make it possible to surprise others - while making it possible to lose surprise by simple errors.
If you have a larger blob, unless everyone has good discipline, you have a better chance of losing surprise than a small blob. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
War Fairy
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Posted - 2007.05.25 19:51:00 -
[20]
That's just stupid. A Large penalty for a small mistake is unbalanced.
Plus there's the fact that fleets don't talk in local or corp. They use voice comms. Plus there's the fact that it's impossible to hide fleets anyways. Cynos show up on the star map and the overview. Even without that it's impossible to move 20+ in a group without anyone noticing it.
You just want these changes cause they're all gank friendly Mr Troll.
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Stitcher
Caldari DarkStar Armada
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Stitcher on 25/05/2007 20:17:03
Quote: It would turn the game into the equivalent of submarine warfare. It might be VERY possible for you to get a first shot on someone (passive scan, passive targeting) before they even know you're there. This would make stealth bombers very, very dangerous.
Honestly, I think that if you want to play a submarine game, you should go buy a submarine game.
I like the way EVE works right now, and I can't see the whole "nerf local" thing as being anything other than a good way to make the game less fun. It'll turn it into a niche tactical simulation as opposed to an awesome fleet warfare game - in other words, completely change EVE into a different game, and I honestly think that would be a mistake.
POST ENDS. WHAT FOLLOWS IS SPECULATION.
If you want pseudo-scientific reasons for why people appear in local, there's a few possible options:
option 1: Capsuleer pilots habitually keep their warp drives spun up to facilitate a quick retreat if necessary. An active warp drive produces a highly visible energy signature visible from anywhere in the system. Renegade pilots (rats) prefer to keep a low profile and thus leave their warp drives powered down when not in use, explaining why they don't appear.
Option 2: all pod pilots are capable of contacting all other pod pilots via the GalNet quantum communications network. as a result of this fact, GalNet and the corporations in charge of the FTL communications hubs are permanently aware of the number of pilots on a given local public channel and in the interests of diplomatic neutrality make a point of not censoring or hiding this information. The reason renegade pilots, like the Guristas and so on, manage to stay off the grid is because they use their own FTL communications network which does not connect to GalNet. The same goes for faction militaries, CONCORD, and so on.
Option 3: Stargates automatically keep and broadcast a tally of all pilots known to be in the system, and interface with the clone companies to keep track of infomorphic transmissions. This knowledge is publicly available. Rats manage to stay off the grid by using interstellar warp and undeclared stargates rather than the official stargate network.
Option 4: All ships are fitted with a communications transponder, and it is a criminal offense for a freelance capsuleer to disable, or mask, the transponder signal. Rats, of course, don't care, and faction militaries are not covered by this law.
Need I go on? ***
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i take
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:29:00 -
[22]
jump over jump over.. no comments..
last one the gate collide :S... NO.. ccp find a better way for pvp then gatechamping as the only one (almost besides pirating
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WhitePhantom
Gallente Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.25 20:29:00 -
[23]
Local is fine, don't change it please.
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