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CCP: PLEASE DON'T FIX WHAT AINT BROKE

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Snapp Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:35:00 - [1] there is nuthing currently wrong with cloaks. or the cloaking system. all i have seen is blah blah cloaking griefing, wtf!! if you are too much of a carebear to figure out how to beat and or bait a cov ops or recon then maybe this game is possibly too advanced for you. covert ops, recons and stealth bombers are meant by design to not be found. they suffer from lack of defences as the balance. as for npc's and haulers that use cloaks, they suffer from lack of mobility. stop whining that you can't feel at ease with one of these around, that is the idea. suggestion to save CCP dev's time is go out your selves and be proactive. if a hostile recon is in your system, set it up to be caught in an ambush. not too hard, get a few freinds to help you, and set up for anti jamming. then play bait for them in a belt. when they pounce, you dont get jammed and even if you do, your friends are already in warp to you and they pounce on the recon. rinse repeat as needed. just stop the whining about nerf this, nerf that. soon enough this game will not be worth playing to the silent majority that enjoy what eve was about. I so came to party! Founding member of the "Gonna Gank a CareBear Alliance"
Hyldabrand	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:41:00 - [2] one more cloak thread and I'm gonna lose it...
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:45:00 - [3] There are problems with the cloaking system. Massive problems. Even exploits if you know how to tease them out. Having no ability whatsoever to track down an AFK cloaker (which has the same annoyance level of an AFK ratter/miner/mission macro) breaks the game mechanic.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:46:00 - [4] Should have made such threads, when people wanted to nerf my beloved nanophoon tbh. Wish I could turn back the time. The ship was fck'ing fun.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Nox Solaris There are problems with the cloaking system. Massive problems. Even exploits if you know how to tease them out. Having no ability whatsoever to track down an AFK cloaker (which has the same annoyance level of an AFK ratter/miner/mission macro) breaks the game mechanic. Is that any excuse to start 500 threads a day about it? I stay out of General Game Discussion sections because of that sort of stupid! ----------------------------------------------- "And I scream in a thousand voices!"
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:23:00 - [6] Quote: if you are too much of a carebear to figure out how to beat and or bait a cov ops or recon then maybe this game is possibly too advanced for you. covert ops, recons and stealth bombers are meant by design to not be found. Either you're saying they're meant not to be found, or you're saying it's easy to find them. Pick one, not both. Also, how do you bait someone who isn't going to move, wants to just sit 150 km from a pos and spy on your movements, or outside a station or whatever, telling allies where you are and who's in local. I believe a large part of the problem and complaints are with AFK cloakers anyway. Please show me how to bait an AFK cloaker. I'll pay you. Quote: not too hard, get a few freinds to help you, and set up for anti jamming. then play bait for them in a belt. The complaint people have is that they try that, or they organize to get the cloaker, and the cloaker knows how many people are in local and refuses to do that. I'm pretty sure any half witted cloaker will smell your bait a mile away. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Harry Manback Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:33:00 - [7] Wow...I hardly come to General Discussion and now I know why. It should be renamed to "What do you want Nerfed?" forum.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Frug I believe a large part of the problem and complaints are with AFK cloakers anyway. Please show me how to bait an AFK cloaker. I'll pay you. tell me how an afk cloaker hurts you then ? ill pay you as soon as he comes back to try to gank you - a trap will work done deal next thread ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
MajikKat	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:36:00 - [9] Edited by: MajikKat on 25/05/2007 19:35:40 Originally by: Frug Also, how do you bait someone who isn't going to move, wants to just sit 150 km from a pos and spy on your movements, or outside a station or whatever, telling allies where you are and who's in local. quote] Dude...I think thats the point of the "Covert" part in cloaks. co+vert /adj. ˈkoʊvərt, ˈkʌvərt; n. ˈkʌvərt, ˈkoʊvərt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[adj. koh-vert, kuhv-ert; n. kuhv-ert, koh-vert] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ûadjective 1. concealed; secret; disguised. 2. covered; sheltered. 3. Law. (of a wife) under the protection of one's husband. ûnoun 4. a covering; cover. 5. a shelter or hiding place. 6. concealment or disguise.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Snapp set it up to be caught in an ambush. not too hard, get a few freinds to help you, and set up for anti jamming. then play bait for them in a belt. With a clocker in system 23/7, that's exactly the problem: they are AFK, and you got no clue when he is actually playing. If you and your friends can setup a bait and wait for him 23 hours in a day, i really pitty your life You are right, cloaks aren't broke. AFK effortless cloaking is broke and needs a fix. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat

Lazlow Galsett	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:42:00 - [11] Edited by: Lazlow Galsett on 25/05/2007 19:41:12 they should just require fuel for a cloak to work on any ship that isnt meant to be covert, so covert ops, stealth bombers and the recons should be able to cloak no problem, but megathrons and other ships should have to use fuel to keep them going.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:48:00 - [12] Threads like these just make it clear how many people do feel cloaks need a nerf and thus only hurt your cause. Either way, a nerf is imminent and there is really nothing anyone can do about it at this point.
Rachel Vend Gallente Zend Insurance	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:51:00 - [13] all of these nerf cloak threads are pretty much started by 1 alliance and they are using alt accounts/chars and the such to make it look like it's a legitimate issue.
Masheine	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:51:00 - [14] Originally by: hydraSlav You are right, cloaks aren't broke. AFK effortless cloaking is broke and needs a fix. No it doesn't. Remove local. Problem solved.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Threads like these just make it clear how many people do feel cloaks need a nerf and thus only hurt your cause. Either way, a nerf is imminent and there is really nothing anyone can do about it at this point. The majority does not troll the forum ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Frug on 25/05/2007 20:09:49 Originally by: SiJira tell me how an afk cloaker hurts you then ? ill pay you as soon as he comes back to try to gank you - a trap will work done deal next thread You're not getting this. On one hand you're saying "as soon as he comes back to gank you, a trap will work. Do you not see the problem when he can indefinitely stay afk? How can an AFK cloaker hurt you? You answered your own question. You just have no idea. An AFK cloaker hurts you by making you have no idea when you should be trying to bait someone or when it's just a name in local for the past 10 hours that you should be ignoring. So, how much are you going to pay me SiJira? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Snapp Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Frug Either you're saying they're meant not to be found, or you're saying it's easy to find them. Pick one, not both. # 1 reason for a Covert Ops to be in your system is to scout. they are not meant to be found ever. #1 reason for a force recon to be in your system is waiting to catch a lazy npc'r or a hauler too stoopid to have an escort. they are siginifigantly easier to find as they will likely uncloak to kill the target. now assuming (and oh yes i really shouldn't do that but here goes.) most corps have a chat channel, most alliances have an alliance channel and lots of people who inhabit the same ares and work together often share a intel channel. now on that assumption, and from personal experience of being in a larger alliance or three in my time in eve I have often noticed that People relay info such as lets say for the sake of a name I choose Frug. is in a Pilgrim, in NOL-M9 (or similar statement, generaly after someone asks/notices hostile in a system) same for straight covert ops, and for hiding npc'rs and haulers. and afk person aint ever gonna kill you. letting your self become fat and lazy and complacent will. honestly it is not CCP's job to make 0.0 safe for you. infact they give you lots of high sec empire for that. Quote:* Also, how do you bait someone who isn't going to move, wants to just sit 150 km from a pos and spy on your movements, or outside a station or whatever, telling allies where you are and who's in local. that is the whole point of a covert ops ship period! it's in thier description eh. Quote: I believe a large part of the problem and complaints are with AFK cloakers anyway. Please show me how to bait an AFK cloaker. I'll pay you. if they are a standard cov ops no chance. if its a raiding recon, then set up accordingly. Quote: The complaint people have is that they try that, or they organize to get the cloaker, and the cloaker knows how many people are in local and refuses to do that. I'm pretty sure any half witted cloaker will smell your bait a mile away. then you havent thought about it properly. in a nut shell for a trap to work you need to make them think you are a target. I so came to party! Founding member of the "Gonna Gank a CareBear Alliance"
i take	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:11:00 - [18] they should start suspending people that makes the number 4tread about the same thing the same day
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:13:00 - [19] This is a new thread about cloaking.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:17:00 - [20] I hear what you're saying snapp but I still think it's an annoying issue. I don't have to deal with it, but I read what people are saying and I think the problem all comes down to local chat being used as a spy tool. Just because someone floats into your system and cloaks shouldn't force all your industrialists, miners, haulers or whatever to go on alert. It's annoying, and people do it a lot. You're saying people are being fat and lazy and I know that's probably true in most cases, but I still don't think it's right for someone to be able to put everyone on edge with such a half assed method as going into a system and cloaking. In your own words, you should report them and set up a bait trap. Only to discover that it's nothing and he's wasting your time because he's afk or something? That's lame. I'm still waiting for SiJira to pay me. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:23:00 - [21] At the end of day, nor you nor me decide what is broken or not. Stop talking ? ---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Aldir Rundal Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Kahor At the end of day, nor you nor me decide what is broken or not. Stop talking ? qft Recruiting
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Plutoinum Should have made such threads, when people wanted to nerf my beloved nanophoon tbh. Wish I could turn back the time. The ship was fck'ing fun. With all due respect....not remotely a valid comparisoon. Stacking multiple speed mods takes zero skill and little training....and while amusing no heavy ship should move that fast anyway. That fix was the right thing to do. But FFS...enough of the cloaking crap. Find another bandwagon "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Snapp Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Frug I hear what you're saying snapp but I still think it's an annoying issue. I don't have to deal with it, but I read what people are saying and I think the problem all comes down to local chat being used as a spy tool. until they remove local (and oh boy we can here the cries now "it isn't fair they can sneak up on us, sniff sniff" then Local is a double edged sword. I can see you, you can see me. Quote:* Just because someone floats into your system and cloaks shouldn't force all your industrialists, miners, haulers or whatever to go on alert. It's annoying, and people do it a lot. actualy it means exactly that. if you want unhindered mining, with little or no risk, please go see a system with a .5 or better. no corp/alliance that operates in low sec / 0.0 should let it's miners and haulers waddle around alone. those that do deserve to get got. Quote: You're saying people are being fat and lazy and I know that's probably true in most cases, but I still don't think it's right for someone to be able to put everyone on edge with such a half assed method as going into a system and cloaking. In your own words, you should report them and set up a bait trap. Only to discover that it's nothing and he's wasting your time because he's afk or something? That's lame. the point of Low sec/0.0 is risk and a constant threat of being killed anyways. so that argument is weak. and yes in my own words, notify your corpies and allies. then either ignor it as a afk cov ops (threat fairly small) or a recon (threat medium) I so came to party! Founding member of the "Gonna Gank a CareBear Alliance"
SiJira	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Frug An AFK cloaker hurts you by making you have no idea when you should be trying to bait someone or when it's just a name in local for the past 10 hours that you should be ignoring. and as soon as he comes back you can have a trap prepared for him shall you pay me now ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Steel Tigeress	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:18:00 - [26] Quote: the point of Low sec/0.0 is risk and a constant threat of being killed anyways. so that argument is weak. and yes in my own words, notify your corpies and allies. then either ignor it as a afk cov ops (threat fairly small) or a recon (threat medium) Wow, you couldnt have said it better if you were trying to nerf cloaking.... With the above cloaker...please explain to me where the constant danger and threat of being killed is? Is the cloaker in any danger while cloaked? He's not only AFK in 0.0, but he is AFK in enemy teritory. So again, where is the cloakers constant danger of being killed? Oh thats right there isnt any.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:19:00 - [27] Quote: Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source cloak /kloʊk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[klohk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ûnoun 1.a loose outer garment, as a cape or coat. 2.something that covers or conceals; disguise; pretense: He conducts his affairs under a cloak of secrecy. ûverb (used with object) 3.to cover with or as if with a cloak: She arrived at the opera cloaked in green velvet. 4.to hide; conceal: The mission was cloaked in mystery. [Origin: 1175û1225; ME cloke (< OF) < ML cloca, var. of clocca bell-shaped cape, bell; see clock1] A cloak is designed to shield a ship from detection. Whether you like it or not, the cloak is doing it's job. It's as simple as that. What a person does while cloaked, is their choice. The cloak is doing what it's purpose was intended for. Sitting someone in a system to observe traffic, watch enemies and relay information on station activity or just to plain disrupt an alliance's logistics is a perfectly viable game tactic. It seems that most recently Eve has turned to an "OMG I DON'T WANT TO TAKE RISK ANY MORE, PLEASE CCP, WRAP ME IN COTTON WOOL AND NERF EVERYTHING THAT I FEEL EVEN SLIGHTLY DISRUPTS MY GAMEPLAY" mentaility. If you don't like the fact that there's a hostile in the system you're in, then move to another system. >>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:25:00 - [28] Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/05/2007 21:30:55 Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: Plutoinum Should have made such threads, when people wanted to nerf my beloved nanophoon tbh. Wish I could turn back the time. The ship was fck'ing fun. With all due respect....not remotely a valid comparisoon. Stacking multiple speed mods takes zero skill and little training....and while amusing no heavy ship should move that fast anyway. That fix was the right thing to do. I never said anything else, but if people only discuss afk cloakers, who set a system into an alarm state without any skill or safe spotting cloaking farmers, who safe their asses without any skill, then people want to forbid the discussion already and start several whine threads, each person on his own instead of posting in one thread. It's just funny. That's why I used that example. Should have made my personal whine threads to keep the nanophoon just for the giggle. Next time I want to preserve something, I also make my own thread, although there are already 3 of that and 3 others of the opposite.
Steel Tigeress	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Verone Sitting someone in a system to observe traffic, watch enemies and relay information on station activity or just to plain disrupt an alliance's logistics is a perfectly viable game tactic. You are quite right... provided that person is PLAYING the game, at the keyboard. Every other activity in the game that effects other players is bannable if you do it while AFK, cloaking is no different.
Kate Atlantis	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:34:00 - [30] Nerf Cloaking? WTF? How can you nerf it any more and it still be effective? Do the people crying out to nerf cloaking actually use a cloaking ship, or know how what skills are involved to train to use one of the ships that can take advantage of the covert ops cloaking device II. I don't see what is wrong having an AFK cloaker in a system tbh, just be like someone sitting AFK in a station that can undock at any time. Prototype cloaks and Improved cloaks can fit on any ship, but their speed seriously nerfed when the cloak is engaged. Not all ships can use the covert ops cloaking device II which grants you the ability to travel at normal speed and warp. Don't forget that cloakers can't just target instantly after they de-cloak. Wow some ignorant people here that know nothing about cloaking ships. Go fly one in combat and see how fragile it actually is, the cloaking device makes up for it's lack of I dunno- shields, armor, cpu, cap, pg. Speed needs to be nerfed more than cloaking atm, and I really don't agree with nerfing the speed issue, but that is in the past now. Heck lets just nerf anything that gives anyone an edge. We can nerf missiles to where they don't hit all the time, and lets nerf ships where they can't fire back you after you shoost them. Whine whine whine whine whine. That's what everyone does now is just fracking whine. Got ganked by a cloaker one to many times, so it's time to nerf cloaking. Maybe you were the one AFK when you got ganked eh? How do you know they are AFK, I have sat many of hours in a system in a Buzzard doing covert ops things like checking out POS's and studying who comes and goes from a system etc. Eve is about strategy, if you can't deal with people that are invisible then go play counter strike with the wall hackers and script kiddies.



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