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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:15:00 - [31] the skill requirements for starbase defence management will be updated as soon as possible on sisi. When you assume control, the sentry will appear in place of your ship modules and you will receive damage messages from the sentries you control when they are active. You then target in the same way you do normally and activate. To give you an idea of some of the internal testing we have done and ongoing balancing, six of us in two bs, three cmd ship, one logistics using tech 2 modules, attacked a variety of starbases and were successfully able to tank and attack the offensive structures for a quite a while. Where you place your offensive structure is quite important as many of the sentries have sweet spots where the smaller ships are able to minimise the damage they get. So placing the sentries in different locations factored in a lot for being able to hit attackers. In phase two of the testing I stabbed everyone in the back and took control of 5 structures with my comrade and with 10 structures under our control we were able to start focusing the fire and use of EWAR structures which helped a lot were able to overwhelm the tanking of the group. The starbases ranged from hardnened pos with a group of small sentries (fairly common on TQ), to maximum guns and ewar to a mix of both. In short, we think it is developing nicely that small support/raid groups can have a multitude of roles and more importantly there are many more variables to the starbase combat, especially when you get defenders coordinating the sentries and EWAR. In combination with the sovereignty changes to limit the pos spam tactics and allow people to harass, attack and be forced to defend whilst being able to provide viable defence against capital ships (4 controllers with 16+ large sentries + EWAR = frightening amount of concentrated firepower). Bare in mind there is a lot of changes to the sentries behaviour and the targeting time it takes for any of them to lock a ship is based on signature radius of the target and the scan resolution of the sentry itself now so it is not always insta death for the first ship in. We do want to add repair structures that can target and repair other structures which are only active when they are controlled by a player. Though it is not certain if it will be in for kali 2.0, but definitely soon after if not. It is our intention to get all this on sisi and get player feedback as soon as possible and arrange quite a few events with you so we can test all this in a variety of scenarios.

Aaron Static Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:38:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Chronotis the skill requirements for starbase defence management will be updated as soon as possible on sisi. Do you mean the skill requirements will be reduced to facilitate more testing? Or something else? More information please :)
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:22:00 - [33] a detail I cant seem to find.. is 'base gun AI being totally scrapped? will your starbase have Any defense without a group of slaves set up on the guns 23/7? \ and wont this encourage people with less scruples to use some kind of screen-reading macro-running account instead? if ratting and mission running can be corrupted in this fashion, what will stop them being used in "home defense"?
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:30:00 - [34] ^Nope, automated defence AI is actually being improved.
psykiller Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:10:00 - [35] while ur fiddiling with star bases,, 1.an auditing system of who takes what out of a ship maintence array or corporation array, that only the starbase manager can view. 2. when the final revelations 2 is deployed ect. currect existing starbases, what happens to the guns since their currently anchored inside the shield i mean do we have to offline and unanchor every gun and offensive module on our pos's before rev2 is deployed, or will the patch just shove them all outside and we move them manually to bettr positions. 3. regarding starbase management, atm it reads as a stand alone skill that does nothing except be a pre req for starbase defense skill. make it into a time modifer for the anchoring of starbase structures? atm it takes 5min to anchor a gun then 3mins to online it for example, a proficeint starbase manager could do this in half the time ect. =============================================== Strenght and Honour. Heart of one, strenght of many. Proud to be RAWR!!
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Ranger 1 I still don't think I understand what will stop cap ships from very quickly blasting the guns (etc) outside the shields until they are incapacitated. Why would an attacking force choose to bring smaller ships in to attack them when cap ships can still get the job done more quickly? I suppose if it were very difficult for cap ships to hit those emplacements (orbiting gun platforms anyone?) that would be a good reason. This is a much better idea, just make all modules outside the ff orbit their position closely, it should be possible even without changing the models. This way dreads have a hard time hitting them and the larger starbase modules have a hard time hitting stationary small ships. So when you warp your ceptor in and get hit by a 30 second wall of lag, or someone warps on your cloaked cov-op at 0m, you don't die with quite so much instant overkill. Whoever came up with the 2 lock limit should really be ashamed of themselves! They've obviously never had their 2 billion isk seige machine tackled by a team of ceptors or been in a dread vs dread lagfest. A duff idea indeed _
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 08:36:00 - [37] Looks good so far! ([sarcasm] There's a surprise, an Agony pilot saying that buffs for small ships are a good thing [/sarcasm]) The dread pilots have some sensible-looking complaints, and have put forward some sensible-looking solutions. Titans do seem to have been given a dose of usefulness in POS warfare. So long as they become tackle-able and are required to be present to use their DDD, I'd call this a positive change. (No, allowing them to be stopped by a mobile bubble does not make them tackle-able. And a dictor bubble is only marginally better. Let the titan pilots fill the lows with WCS if they want to be able to run away easily.) ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.
StarSearcher	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:20:00 - [38] In my opinion, there's an easy way to "balance" guns at POS'es. It involves a bit of cheating - but... Orbitting guns would be a nightmare to program - and add lag to the servers. It also removes "strategical" placing of modules. On the other hand: stationary guns will be eaten by dreads for breakfast - or will have to be given enough HP to make it hard/impossible for BS and below to take them out. I suggest the guns / modules are given a FAKE transversal speed. Small guns getting a rather fast fake transversal - large guns very small/zero transversal. This way, dreads will be able to take out the large guns - but still with damage reduction due to tracking. Battleships will be able to take out medium guns - but with damage reduction for tracking. They practically wont be able to hit small guns, but will hit large for 100%. Ewar / logistic stuff would need balancing vs what should be able to take it out. Not sure if dreads should be able to hit or not.
StarSearcher	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:23:00 - [39] Oh - vs DDD... I see three ways of fixing it. 1. Create a 2ndary shield outside the prime shield where smartbombs and Doomsday devices don't work. 2. Add expl radius to DD devices. 3. Make starbase structures immune to DD device.
Coniglietta Magica Guys With Strippers Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Ehrine Ashbark One DDD isn't going to stop guns. I checked the states on a large arty earlier. 100,000 shield hp and 1,500,000 armour hitpoints. Not too much that BS can't deal with them, but enough that a DDD can't just pop them. What about the new "bombs" what would 2 or 3 of them do to those starbase guns?

Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 14:17:00 - [41] Originally by: StarSearcher Orbitting guns would be a nightmare to program - and add lag to the servers. It also removes "strategical" placing of modules. ... I suggest the guns / modules are given a FAKE transversal speed. Small guns getting a rather fast fake transversal - large guns very small/zero transversal. This is pretty much what I meant, they should orbit their anchor spot at 50m distance or something. Almost like they're just spinning. Picture a spinning reallife radar dish where the bulk of the dish is actually slighly off the axis of rotation, the dish is orbiting and therefore harder to shoot. Not 100% sure on this but I don't think it should add much lag, once the client knows an object is orbiting does the server need to update it's position ever? Having them orbit the entire ff would be erm comedy but I wouldn't like to be the one who has to top up the ammo _
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.28 18:39:00 - [42] I'm thinking that the siege module should simply nerf the number of locked targets when activated. Out of siege, bluntly, dreads are nearly total crap currently so unless they are planning to fix this then I see no reason why this wouldn't work better to fix the problems people have raised here - all without having to change the way models work or pretty much anything else to that matter. Raptor and Ares Fix

CCP TomB	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Tintifish Starbase Tactical Officer skill, requires Starbase Office V. Unfortunatly starbase officer doesn't exist , so it will be hard to test. That's also a very high skill req, especially if starbase officer is to be a useless skill as it appears: "Skill at setting up POS's". Oh, it had better not mean we need to train something to setup POS though, i thought the pain in the ass and time sink that was actually putting them up was enough! Yup that has been fixed. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:16:00 - [44] I don't see how this change will change the way that POSes are taken down. It seems to me that a fleet of dreads will still be the way to go. But instead of going directly for the POS you go for the big guns first. Once they are out of the way, ignore the small guns and kill the POS without much risk.

CCP TomB	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Yarasha I think the same way like Ranger 1. Why should anyone bring small ships, when he can bring in 20 Dreads and a lot of carriers? The 20 Dreads just split up, into teams of 5 Dreads and take out the POS weapons, while the carriers go into Triagemode. From what it sounds to me, i don¦t think that the changes will help, but i hope that i am wrong. This is not about that starbase combat is best if you are solo in an Ibis, it's about giving that Ibis a chance if he knows how to do it. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .


CCP TomB	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:18:00 - [46] Originally by: Manina Boat What's going to happen to existing POS guns? Are they going to be incapacitated until they are moved outside the shield? Is it only going to apply to new guns put on the POS? Are you going to automatically push all the guns outside the shield? (When are you going to seed the necessary skills on Singularity so we can test it for you?) They will be pushed outside. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .


CCP TomB	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Banana Torres I don't see how this change will change the way that POSes are taken down. It seems to me that a fleet of dreads will still be the way to go. But instead of going directly for the POS you go for the big guns first. Once they are out of the way, ignore the small guns and kill the POS without much risk. Posted this in another thread: Starbase combat is still not fun... Yes nada has changed for your 30-40 dread army that likes/dislikes doing 20-30 minute AFKs on multiple towers a day, besides that owners can now focus fire. You can still continue taking out the tower rather than shooting some stupid guns, and it will take the same time as before. But the fundamental problem with current starbase warfare is that you NEED the dreads or other capital ships to take them down. The goal of this change is not for pilots to start preferring smaller ships, it's to allow them to do something. Today on the test server there are tactics available to a couple of cruisers that makes them capable of avoiding death while taking down the structures that are sitting outside the force field, it's slower than the same amount of dreads, but it is possible. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Ehrine Ashbark Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:41:00 - [48] Originally by: CCP TomB Originally by: Tintifish Starbase Tactical Officer skill, requires Starbase Office V. Unfortunatly starbase officer doesn't exist , so it will be hard to test. That's also a very high skill req, especially if starbase officer is to be a useless skill as it appears: "Skill at setting up POS's". Oh, it had better not mean we need to train something to setup POS though, i thought the pain in the ass and time sink that was actually putting them up was enough! Yup that has been fixed. Can I ask in what way it has been fixed? I just logged into to Sisi to look and still seem to need this rank 7 skill that isn't available trained to 5. Is it a case of the fix hasn't been applied to the server yet?
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:48:00 - [49] I think I might just have gotten a crush on you /* Teach a rookie today watch him takedown a battleship tomorrow... */
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2007.05.28 20:50:00 - [50] TomB, I don¦t understand what you want to achieve with these changes. At the moment we have several problems with POS-warfare and the smallest one is that cruiser don¦t have a real role in it. Like already mentioned many times the real problems are lag (too many ship trying to attack and defend a POS), boredom during POS-sieging (too much HP on towers) and POS-spamming (bad sovereignity-model). Why don¦t you use your time to fix the real problems? While it is fine to create more different targets/options during POS-warfare, moving the guns outside is not the solution. The real target is still shooting the POS in reinforcement and killing it after it drops out of reinforcement. Everything else seems to have no strategic worth (except perhaps cyno structures)

Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:56:00 - [51] here's is the reason why i think these changes will impact other aspects of the gameplay, as intended, rather than basic POS warfare: Today, you need to bring several dreads/carriers to kill a well equiped POS. The other alliance does the same, dreads are needed to kill dreads, dreads need support fleets to not die horrible deaths, every ship in the region ends up being piled on the same system, and possibly on the same moon. Every battle we hear about between BoB and the coalition ends up in a major lag fest on a single system. With the new system, you can actually break up your fleet in several smaller groups of ships(smaller than dread), and attack several systems POSes simultaneously. The defender alliance has to break up his defense fleet too, or end up losing at least a few POSes. Also, multiple simultaneous attacks in different systems allow for multiple targets to be chosen by the main dread/carrier fleet, making it hard for the defenders to concentrate all their efforts. If it works, it might actually spread those conflicts over more systems, which means more nodes, less lag and more fun actually fighting the other side. All we need now is a POS bomb launcher to disencourage large blobs of smaller ships, although simply offering many more targets that can be taken by smaller groups might already be enough.
Goca KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:15:00 - [52] ho hum and if the people you are attacking has a Titan or 5-6+ they let loose one shot and blow up all those pretty little ships attacking the sentry guns who have absolutely no defense against such a weapon.. after that happens once or twice, what do you think will happen? yes, dreads sieging a POS for hours on end.. so what WILL NOT change is the people WITHOUT superweapons will have to dread seige, what WILL change are the one's WITH superweapons will be able to send their squads all over killing sentry guns. .\|..
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:02:00 - [53] ^ell, that's problem with titans, not star bases. I think they said they were killing the remote DD anyways.
Goca KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:22:00 - [54] Edited by: Goca on 28/05/2007 23:24:50 Edited by: Goca on 28/05/2007 23:24:34 Originally by: William Hamilton ^ell, that's problem with titans, not star bases. I think they said they were killing the remote DD anyways. well let's hope the horse goes in front of the cart .\|..
Peri Helion Amarr Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:33:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP TomB Originally by: Manina Boat What's going to happen to existing POS guns? Are they going to be incapacitated until they are moved outside the shield? Is it only going to apply to new guns put on the POS? Are you going to automatically push all the guns outside the shield? (When are you going to seed the necessary skills on Singularity so we can test it for you?) They will be pushed outside. More detail please. If I have emplacements evenly distributed at the edge of the POS shield currently, will they just get pushed radially from the center of the POS out the minimum distance from the shield? Will they get scattered randomly? If I have a nice mass of guns at the center of the POS Shield for easy reloading, will they move as a group? or be scattered to the solar winds? Will guns that are pushed out be online? Will I be better off just offlining and unanchoring them all the day before the patch and placing them where I want them afterwards? (Not that I want to do this for 18 towers, but if the alternative is a total mess better to control it proactively than clean it up reactively)
Drevas	Posted - 2007.05.29 04:36:00 - [56] Sounds like if you have someone in the pos controlling the guns they can provide some sort of defense, but what happens if your corp doesnt not have a bagillion members who are online 23/7? what if you only have members in one time zone? Does that mean that you cant defend your pos, because autodefense will obviously not work? Currently at least the guns will deal some sort of damage, and hopefully you can repair the shields when your corp is back online.

CCP TomB	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: CCP TomB Originally by: Manina Boat What's going to happen to existing POS guns? Are they going to be incapacitated until they are moved outside the shield? Is it only going to apply to new guns put on the POS? Are you going to automatically push all the guns outside the shield? (When are you going to seed the necessary skills on Singularity so we can test it for you?) They will be pushed outside. More detail please. If I have emplacements evenly distributed at the edge of the POS shield currently, will they just get pushed radially from the center of the POS out the minimum distance from the shield? Will they get scattered randomly? If I have a nice mass of guns at the center of the POS Shield for easy reloading, will they move as a group? or be scattered to the solar winds? Will guns that are pushed out be online? Will I be better off just offlining and unanchoring them all the day before the patch and placing them where I want them afterwards? (Not that I want to do this for 18 towers, but if the alternative is a total mess better to control it proactively than clean it up reactively) They will be moved radially from the center out to the minimum distance from the shield and they will be in same state as they were in before the patch. In my opinion you would be better off leaving them be and then moving them afterwards, because once the patch hits you will see that their unanchoring time has been reduced to 1 minute, but that's just my opinion and not a result of the holy equation of efficiency and godliness. TomB Lead Designer EVE Online .

Mahrin Skel Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:07:00 - [58] A question concerning the new Jump Bridge: Roughly how much will it cost? And will it be possible to charge a fee for it's use, like Docking fees? --Dave

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:04:00 - [59] the new bombs are fairly expensive to build so i doubt will be used to really damage structures and is only dependant on the corp if they cluster their offensive structures or not. Also regarding the pos spam tactics, the limit on how many that can be anchored per corp/alliance is just the first of a few solutions being implemented and the rest will hopefully come soon after. The limit by alliance is just the first, so other measures will come such as stacking nerf of anchoring times is one such possible solution post kali 2.0. the intention has been to make people fight and defend for fewer starbases when it comes to sovereignty and territory and really stop the pos spam and hopefully make the starbase warfare more variable and more interesting.

XoPhyte Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:37:00 - [60] This could be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway . Lets say that the structures outside the POS have ridiculously high hull hitpoints, what happens when dreads kill the POS without killing the structures outside the POS today? Does this mean that the time it takes to kill pos's today has increased as we would have to kill all turrets as well before we can launch a new POS in its place? Also as others have said please limit the targeting of dreads to STRUCTURES only. Removing the ability to lock more then 2 objects such as ships would reduce the dread to a singular role (which they are somewhat already), as well as making it hell when the lag kicks in. Remember that capital pilots have spent a lot of time, SP and isk getting ready for a capital, lets not nerf them to the extent in which dreads are the most boring ship in game.



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