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Suggestion to fix drone boats . [Devs please read its a good idea].

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aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.28 02:25:00 - [1] Edited by: aNtis0cial on 28/05/2007 02:35:37 Edited by: aNtis0cial on 28/05/2007 02:30:52 So yesterday I asked for a 1 on 1 Tempest (me) vs nos domi, so I started by doing what I should that is fight at range and pop the drones, still the other play was not happy about it because that way he would die for sure.. So we restarted the thing and I agreed to fight at close range, the truth is that I'm playing at a **y pc right now and I froze alot of times under-repping and over-repping alot, still there are two things that make the dominix pretty much unbeatable 1 on 1 for most other ships, that is fit a dual-web setup and put your domi on top of the other player ship making him miss almost everyshot, so what can you do against a full wrack of nossies and ogres tech2? Well the way to fight droneboats is to go after they drones first because most droneboat setups dont use turrets and for that dont need ammo so they will have more cap charges than you while doing 450 dps and sucking your cap dry, the other way is going for a gank setup and hope you can break his tank in time (gank megas can do it very well, but not tempest and the mael cant tackle), but when the dominix player can scoop the drones instantly and re-deploy them thats not an option because you will end up not beeing able to pop the drones in time and will end up wasting time. So you cant hit because his on top of your ship at 0km and his ship model is merged with yours making it impossible for you to move (because your webbed) you wont have the dps to break his tank (fully maxed skill tempest with tech2 hammers does 600 dps like mine and wont be able to hit him if your 0 km away) and you can't pop his drones because he will scoop them. The solution: Make changes so that ships cant merge together and sit at 0 KM making it impossible for you to hit him properly with turrets, change the launch/scoop system by doing something like this; Make a scoop delay of say 35 seconds so that players can lock and attack drones making it possible to destroy them, so that you can still scoop them fast to warp out make and emergency scoop that will allow you to scoop your drones instantly to warp away from a fight, if you for some reason you can instantly re-deploy your drones once if you use "emergency scoop" again (In like 1 minute or more) you will have a deploy delay of 35 seconds (updated idea :D ) , this will solve the problem of not beeing able to warp because you cant scoop your drones. I think its a simple thing to do and it will make domis not so overpowerd because lets face it they are. That way i wont be kinda **ed of losing a ship because there was nothing i could do but sit and see my ship go down in 8 mins. There will be ppl that will say that you should just keep heading in one direction so you dont end up on top of him, but the thruth is that i froze like 5 times during that fight one of them beeing when i was going to poing my ship away so that didng happen but some cases there will be times that you will end up on top of the domi and because a smart domi use will fit dual webs so they can actually move towards you faster while webbed and get their ship on yours making it impossible for you to fight him. Please adress this issue it would solve alot of things.
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:09:00 - [2] Originally by: aNtis0cial stuff First, no its not good idea, also no one really care about that ur pc freezes all the time, its your problem - deal with it. Sure dominix is overpowered because it can instantly scoop his drones, when it will take 35seconds domi won't be overpowered, really. /sarcasm off Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? --- Cheap paint ftw
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Valandril Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Didn't you read it? Sit at 0km and all turrets have 0% accuracy because the tracking equation can't divide by 0. That's how you kill turrets. It requires no ammo and knows no counter.
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:40:00 - [4] Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 03:39:17 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Originally by: Valandril Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Didn't you read it? Sit at 0km and all turrets have 0% accuracy because the tracking equation can't divide by 0. That's how you kill turrets. It requires no ammo and knows no counter. Sure that i read this part but i didn't even bother to respond to it. Why ? Did someone ever sit exacly 0m from you (i mean pvp here) ? Nope, not realistic, what smart ppl do i orbit at 500m because if u try to sit at 0, even 1m of difference will make him hit more likely full dps. --- Cheap paint ftw
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: aNtis0cial stuff First, no its not good idea, also no one really care about that ur pc freezes all the time, its your problem - deal with it. Sure dominix is overpowered because it can instantly scoop his drones, when it will take 35seconds domi won't be overpowered, really. /sarcasm off Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Are you ******??? Making scoop delay will give me the opportunity lock his drones and destroy them... so the domi user can't just sit near me and go on the drone scoop fest that it is now and no you dont have any idea of what you are saying orbiting at 14 m/s wont help you much because i'll counter your movement with my ship while sitting on my ship I can't. You have no vision of why this will work and how it will work prolly because you haven't been playing this game for a long time if that is your main I play this game since beta with time intervals of boredom but still for a long time.
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 09:45:37 Originally by: aNtis0cial Originally by: Valandril Originally by: aNtis0cial stuff First, no its not good idea, also no one really care about that ur pc freezes all the time, its your problem - deal with it. Sure dominix is overpowered because it can instantly scoop his drones, when it will take 35seconds domi won't be overpowered, really. /sarcasm off Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Are you ****??? Making scoop delay will give me the opportunity lock his drones and destroy them... so the domi user can't just sit near me and go on the drone scoop fest that it is now and no you dont have any idea of what you are saying orbiting at 14 m/s wont help you much because i'll counter your movement with my ship while sitting on my ship I can't. You have no vision of why this will work and how it will work prolly because you haven't been playing this game for a long time if that is your main I play this game since beta with time intervals of boredom but still for a long time. So ur the best bacuse ur playing from beta ? This gives you omniknownledge about game ? Ok. But i would say that u got no clue about matter, u shouldn't let domi get close, if u let - ur toasted. Know ur weakness and don't let enemy to use it. But hey, ur the omg amagad playing since beta guy and i'm stupid nub, thats why i know how to kill nos dominix and u don't. Aw almost forgot, calling me **** instead posting counterarguments is very mature, really. --- Cheap paint ftw
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:49:00 - [7] If you're fitted for long range battle, ofcourse you'll get killed at close range. I got my harbinger fitted with 7 autocannons, and it can hug and shoot anything. From 0 to 10km it's all the same where i shoot from. It's never about ship vs ship, it's fit vs fit. Always has been.
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:54:00 - [8] Originally by: Valandril Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 09:45:37 Originally by: aNtis0cial Originally by: Valandril Originally by: aNtis0cial stuff First, no its not good idea, also no one really care about that ur pc freezes all the time, its your problem - deal with it. Sure dominix is overpowered because it can instantly scoop his drones, when it will take 35seconds domi won't be overpowered, really. /sarcasm off Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Are you ****??? Making scoop delay will give me the opportunity lock his drones and destroy them... so the domi user can't just sit near me and go on the drone scoop fest that it is now and no you dont have any idea of what you are saying orbiting at 14 m/s wont help you much because i'll counter your movement with my ship while sitting on my ship I can't. You have no vision of why this will work and how it will work prolly because you haven't been playing this game for a long time if that is your main I play this game since beta with time intervals of boredom but still for a long time. So ur the best bacuse ur playing from beta ? This gives you omniknownledge about game ? Ok. But i would say that u got no clue about matter, u shouldn't let domi get close, if u let - ur toasted. Know ur weakness and don't let enemy to use it. But hey, ur the omg amagad playing since beta guy and i'm stupid nub, thats why i know how to kill nos dominix and u don't. Aw almost forgot, calling me **** instead posting counterarguments is very mature, really. Didnt you read it all at least, we restarted the whole thing because he whinned about me mwding away so restarted it at range, still doesnt valid your point there will be times whehn you wont be able to run away from the domi, and the domi is the most dificult ship to counter from close range specially if the domi user goes for the dual web setup ull just sit there for 8 minutes like me getting slowly killed because there is nothing you can do. So your point is wrong and doesnt cover the reality of gameplay you shouldn't have to run away from domis I can kill a mega just fine from up close and the mega is the close ranger. :)
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.28 09:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Sheriff Jones If you're fitted for long range battle, ofcourse you'll get killed at close range. I got my harbinger fitted with 7 autocannons, and it can hug and shoot anything. From 0 to 10km it's all the same where i shoot from. It's never about ship vs ship, it's fit vs fit. Always has been. I was fitted for "close" range but ac's can fire outside web range with barrage, so again point not valid and my fit is very very good :)
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:05:00 - [10] So i'm trying to understand your point, you can pwn domi from range but u can't kill it in close so u want them nerfed pretty bad so u can kill them in close and long range fight. Am i right ? --- Cheap paint ftw
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Originally by: Valandril Also where is my ability to kill your weapons ? Didn't you read it? Sit at 0km and all turrets have 0% accuracy because the tracking equation can't divide by 0. That's how you kill turrets. It requires no ammo and knows no counter. That's a bug which has to be fixed, not a droneboat overpowering.
KaerBerohs Amarr Pod Killing Machines	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Valandril So i'm trying to understand your point, you can pwn domi from range but u can't kill it in close so u want them nerfed pretty bad so u can kill them in close and long range fight. Am i right ? You sir must have left your brain in your other set of shorts! Even if you have a close range fitting, a double webber setup domi will be at 0m from you and you'll hit exactly NOTHING! Like it's been said before, it's a equation bug since it can't be divided by 0. This needs to be solved since drone boats can just sit at 0m, where your turrets will be useless and they'll just suck your cap dry and keep insta-scooping their drones. You'll be there just watching your ship slowly going down without any possibility of fighting due to an equation BUG! Get a brain before you come out arguing against something that will probably screw up your gameplay... am I right? Pretty sure you use a domi! :D
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:26:00 - [13] Edited by: aNtis0cial on 28/05/2007 11:26:31 Originally by: Valandril So i'm trying to understand your point, you can pwn domi from range but u can't kill it in close so u want them nerfed pretty bad so u can kill them in close and long range fight. Am i right ? First ill have to work my way and i wont "pwn" the domi ill have to pop his drones still but the range might give the time to pop the drones but i can still die, BUT i have a chance. From up close if the domi plays his cards well I can't due to the 0 km thingy and the hability to scoop and deploy the drones instantly and one by one that I try to attack, so no i dont want to pwn it i want to be able to fight it and win, again I didnt really liked to sit for a bit under 8 mins seeing my tempest getting pooned because im unpowered to fight back even if he wasnt on top of me I wouldnt win still because most domi users run a full wrack of nossies no ammo need full cargo filled with cap charges while sucking my cap at fast pace and scooping his drones fast enough when i try to pop them so that i have a chance to cut his dmg so that i dont need to rep as much to compensate the fact that I'm beeing nossed and that i dont have as many charges as him because I have to carry ammo too and overtime will die because of that. So here it is explained why this needs to be fixed, I'm not saying to leave the domi as it is if this is done.. I would do some changes like making heavy drones faster so the domi and other droneboats can be a better gang ship and have more uses, but again its not my job to do this I'm just pointing 2 simple problems that are very serious and need fixes and one solution that can work very well with ajustments.
Neuromandis Novastorm Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:18:00 - [14] Either what you suggest, or make repairing drones take time, or make repairing drones drain the "parent" ships shield or cap. The way it is now is the magical free heal button. Really, anything that adds a "cost" or "delay" factor to scoop-redeploy would be fine imho. Apart from that, the tracking equation needs some love.
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:20:00 - [15] Bump for lack of comments.
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:30:00 - [16] your /cry button is stuck. The other poster is right. It's Fit vs Fit. I can kill a NosDomi in my Raven. Because if he gets inside 50km, I warp to somewhere else. at 100km, I can rain T2 cruises on him and shrug off his drones and his high slots are worthless. If you want to get in close with a nosdomi... that's your bad decision. hate to say it but inside 10-15km, a nosidomi should be left alone. Are you going to be upset that you can't use a NosDomi against a T2 sniper Tempest because your drones/NOS don't work at 120km? Is the Tempest overpowered? how bout the Rokh? The mega? If you want to fight in close, use a passive tank. NOS doesn't hurt you then. If you don't want to do that because it would cramp your style, do something different. a Nos domi with a good setup is going to hurt up close. That's life. Use a drake :-) ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin your /cry button is stuck. The other poster is right. It's Fit vs Fit. I can kill a NosDomi in my Raven. Because if he gets inside 50km, I warp to somewhere else. at 100km, I can rain T2 cruises on him and shrug off his drones and his high slots are worthless. If you want to get in close with a nosdomi... that's your bad decision. hate to say it but inside 10-15km, a nosidomi should be left alone. Are you going to be upset that you can't use a NosDomi against a T2 sniper Tempest because your drones/NOS don't work at 120km? Is the Tempest overpowered? how bout the Rokh? The mega? If you want to fight in close, use a passive tank. NOS doesn't hurt you then. If you don't want to do that because it would cramp your style, do something different. a Nos domi with a good setup is going to hurt up close. That's life. Use a drake :-) OMG you'r such a noob that I'm not even going to bother, take your noobness elsewhere please. If you only have crap to say dont bother posting please.
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:30:00 - [18] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 29/05/2007 19:33:34 Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 29/05/2007 19:29:20 So you play it smart, keep range and target the drones and you win the fight. Then you agreed to fight right inside his target range, the place he fights at absolute 100% effectiveness and you lose. Wonder what happened there? What could we change to rectify this most gervious of injustices? EDIT Sitting at 0 is a bug like everyone keeps saying, its not a drone boat issue. This could probably be rectified simply by setting the minimum distance to .00000000000000001m or something extremely small so that an actual number will be returned. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:33:00 - [19] Sorry. I didn't realize saying "Use your advantages. avoid his." was noobish. My bad. tool. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 29/05/2007 19:29:20 So you play it smart, keep range and target the drones and you win the fight. Then you agreed to fight right inside his target range, the place he fights at absolute 100% effectiveness and you lose. Wonder what happened there? What could we change to rectify this most gervious of injustices? I didn't win the fight first we simply stopped once I mwd away and started shooting he said that he didnt want to fight that way, since I knew him for before we used to hang out in passari I agreed to restart and play at close range, and thats not what we are discussing read the damm thing and if you have no brains or little experience in pvp please DONT post idiotic things and move along.
aNtis0cial The Movement	Posted - 2007.05.29 19:39:00 - [21] Edited by: aNtis0cial on 29/05/2007 19:38:54 Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin Sorry. I didn't realize saying "Use your advantages. avoid his." was noobish. My bad. tool. It's noobish because what its beeing discussed here is two things that make the dominix so overpowerd 1 on 1 wise and that need changing things that CCP pointed as a problem some time ago and that I came up with a solution if you dont want to discuss that dont post, stop saying that domis should be left alone close range because thats not how it is supposed to be.
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:02:00 - [22] And what I'm saying is that it's not a problem. If there's a problem, it's with how NOS works, not with the Domi. And all of the proposed fixes to NOS revolve around signature radius. So in your tempest you'd still be in the same position. I will 100% agree that there's a problem with the rendering of the ships in the client and the "location" of the ships on the server. This ties into the "POS bowling" problems where the server only keeps track of where the center of the ship is instead of its perimeter. A ship should "be" where we see it, but they aren't. That all being said- you complained about a problem with the domi being overpowered. NOSes have issues. The model/rendering system has issues. But your post is mostly about the domi and your computer. The Domi is fine. The computer isn't our (or CCP's) problem. Hence my post. Thanks for being so understanding and so aware of what's going on. I've only been playing for like a year and it's good to see the established players that make the game worth playing. I still think your /cry button is stuck. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:09:00 - [23] I don't see a instant recall as being a problem, You are trying to deal with a very specific problem. I think the problem you are having is that a good player will pull his drones in when the shields get low. I don't see a real difference between that and hitting a shield booster or armor rep, or a cap booster. The problem you are having is that you can't figure out how to beat him. Try a new tactic or a new kit out. You are asking to be-able to kill the only damage that this ship can do. It is set up to suck you dry while it's drones kill you, Maybe you need to come up with a way to beat it that doesn't require a change to the game mechanics. If it was a all powerful setup then we would have nothing but nos domi in the game. and since not everyone is flying one. there is ways to kill one. Also realize that it is a balance between races, there is no guarantee that every ship cak kill every ship, maybe this setup is not ment to beat a domi? Maybe the way things are a domi is meant to wipe the floor with your ship load out. I am a uber care-bear, so i could be blowing smoke, but I seem to see allot of posts about people asking for this nerf, or this change.. allot of the combat changes are balanced out, you ask for the domi to be nerfed, another is asking for it to be improved.. I don't know who is right, but it sounds like you went into the fight expecting to win, and when you didn't you claim that the domi is over powered. - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.
Ramashek	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:54:00 - [24] Edited by: Ramashek on 30/05/2007 00:53:11 ive done my fair share of pvping, and well, it seems to me you're just moaning about game mechanics, if people use mechanics to their advantage, then they're smart players, if you dont like it, change tactics, dont ask for nerfs or bonus'... as for 1 on 1 pvp... NEVER HAPPENS!!! ok, well sometimes, but nearly never, but when it does, the agressor always calculates the risk, so in a sense one player already has a latent advantage... what you're agreeing to almost sounds like a kind of shivilrous jousting... which isnt pvp, it's well, signing your ships wreck to the opponent if you know you can't win
Sun Crusher	Posted - 2007.06.03 21:38:00 - [25] i like Domi like it is, CCP pls don't change anything

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