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Valandrils Action: "Say no to walking in stations"

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Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:42 Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:32 Ok since some ppl pointed out that i suck coz i don't wanna this feature in, while some ppl agree with me here i decided to make this topic for discussion about this matter. Story: CCP is working on new feature for eve called "walking in stations" that will allow us to fool around inside station and see other ppl avatars walking, running, dancing and doing other stuff. In simple idea is to give ppl something else to do than actualy flying in ur spaceship. Now why i'm against it ? Because there is alot of stuff that need to be done to fix eve, before you add new content (yes ppl, fix first THEN add new stuff) and this list look like (random order): - drone ui revamping - new ui ingame that won't suck most of fps - server and client software improovment - fixing forums engine (need to login couple times, random logouts and other session issues, weird reactions after editing post) - writing eve manual (hell maybe its about time ?) - making drones smart (this is pretty old, like since rmr ?) - amarr buff (promised for kali 2) And a lot more stuff that should be done. So this is my petition to ccp, stop wasting manpower on walking in stations and other "most needed" features and start fixing game, thank you very much. Yours Valandril --- Cheap paint ftw
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.28 21:36:00 - [2] Originally by: Valandril Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:42 Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:32 Ok since some ppl pointed out that i suck coz i don't wanna this feature in, while some ppl agree with me here i decided to make this topic for discussion about this matter. Story: CCP is working on new feature for eve called "walking in stations" that will allow us to fool around inside station and see other ppl avatars walking, running, dancing and doing other stuff. In simple idea is to give ppl something else to do than actualy flying in ur spaceship. Now why i'm against it ? Because there is alot of stuff that need to be done to fix eve, before you add new content (yes ppl, fix first THEN add new stuff) and this list look like (random order): - drone ui revamping - new ui ingame that won't suck most of fps - server and client software improovment - fixing forums engine (need to login couple times, random logouts and other session issues, weird reactions after editing post) - writing eve manual (hell maybe its about time ?) - making drones smart (this is pretty old, like since rmr ?) - amarr buff (promised for kali 2) And a lot more stuff that should be done. So this is my petition to ccp, stop wasting manpower on walking in stations and other "most needed" features and start fixing game, thank you very much. Yours Valandril um the world of darkness team is working on the walking because it's going to be used mainly for the world of darkness game. so it's going to made anyways, they are putting an EvE skin on it. what's the big deal? it's not the EvE teams job at all. I mean the people working on walking are over 5000 miles away In CA.
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:20:00 - [3] Reserved New ship class
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:41:00 - [4] Originally by: MotherMoon um the world of darkness team is working on the walking because it's going to be used mainly for the world of darkness game. so it's going to made anyways, they are putting an EvE skin on it. what's the big deal? it's not the EvE teams job at all. I mean the people working on walking are over 5000 miles away In CA. Quoted for Truth. The walking in stations thing is a separate project for a separate game. They just happen to be using EvE for their first deployment of it, and will put a final deployment in EvE when it's done.
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 23:04:00 - [5] Reply time ! I know it depend on other part of whole team but tell me, what determine how many ppls are in each team ? Every hired person cost money so instead paying money to team writing walking in station, they could hire more ppl into ccp cell doing eve stuff. And yes, forum is broken, they got session issues (it was even in one devblog couple months ago, nothing changed since then). And now about software upgrade, from couple months we saw ccp adding new hardware to servers and apparently, it didnt fix lag at all, so here comes the problem - not optimized server software. Client also is far away from optimized application, as an example: try loading long txt file or larger market (region wide in the forge), you will notice that whole client freezes while its loading data. Same with scooping/deploying drones, it cause screen freeze. If i forgot to respond to something, point me that. --- Cheap paint ftw
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 00:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Valandril - writing eve manual (hell maybe its about time ?) allready in the works actully it's part of the reasons why the walking project is underway too. did you miss the whitewolf CCP merge? CCP said they would make an MMO for them and whitewolf said they would make them the CCG and the EvE table top game and a manual for the game. so unless you don't want the EvE manual like you asked for then CCP won't be stoping the alanta team form doing it's job.
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 02:59:00 - [7] It's important for the team to get their work done, but the actual implementation on TQ is a mistake, and I hope they don't actually intend to try it. What got changed in the last patch? A few things. What got added? Almost nothing. How many problems were there? One gajillion. The cost of adding content to the server cluster is measured in customer dissatisfaction and instability. Ambulation will be a full-fledged nightmare to slide into TQ, and there still hasn't been a single argument in favor of it that amounts to more than "Immersion = Yay!" Do the work. The team needs the test environment and the videos make good eye candy for fans of an established franchise. It's not detracting meaningfully from other projects, and the end result (a different game) will probably be worthwhile. No not try to integrate it into EvE proper, and stop telling people that you will. Make another game, make a machinima series, dramatize news events and release the model elements for Half-Life modders to play with, do whatever you want with this content, which ultimately amounts to a test environment for the CA team. Do not strap a half-finished, resource-heavy, gameplay-defying mini-game onto the house of cards that is Tranquility. It can barely support itself, much less a humungous wad of content that contributes nothing to server performance, gameplay options (in-station assassinations and exosuits are for fan fiction) or meaningful experiences to the game. I agree with Valendril's conclusion, even if we take different paths to get there. Leave this nonsense out.
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:31:00 - [8] If we followed that logic you still wouldn't be able to build POSes, captical ships wouldn't be around, titans would be gone, cloaking, exploation, invention, the new on-board scanner, aggression system, in game browser, overloading, rigs, combat boosters, voice communication, the guns would stay inside the shield, and local would not be on the list for removal. People have quit eve over most of those. at least 8 people for each. if not more. and we keep on playing. and the removal of local is the whole point of walking. There is no interaction between players out side of local. I mean you have to go out of game to get into a corp. now you'll be able to walk up to someone and talk to them. seems the same but it's a bit different. corperation requrtment centers sound kinda cool. EvE is not going to stay the same. and once we can fly into planets and over the surface using wasd or a joystick or some other real time flight engine. more will leave. but MORE will join. and the gaming communty that doesn't play EvE will be more and more amazed. wether you like it or not they are putting in it because the devs want it in the end. and they, as you may have notic resently, own this game. very much so. it will be done. too many people want it. I'm not saying you want it. or that I'm right. but that it's happen wether you or I want it to
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 03:32:00 - [9] plus a dev allready talked about liking the idea of being able to see outside through windows to watch campers. yay :P
FinnDS	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:03:00 - [10] To be honest I understand extremely well this decision by the team. They are taking the next step to make EVE Online a a fully fledged MMORPG. Yesyes, I know, it is already, but this is the next step. The space part is awesome, best I have played in any space-sim game, and I love it, and I am very positive that walking in space stations will be good fun aswell. Now, ofcourse there will be problems here and there with the game, but why should that stop further developement? They should always be looking foward and always be improving their product, and I know that is exactly what they are doing. Come on man, you might disagree, but to be honest I don't think most people dislike this idea. Most people are probably into it, with good reason.
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.29 07:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Valandril Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:42 Edited by: Valandril on 28/05/2007 21:33:32 Ok since some ppl pointed out that i suck coz i don't wanna this feature in, while some ppl agree with me here i decided to make this topic for discussion about this matter. Story: CCP is working on new feature for eve called "walking in stations" that will allow us to fool around inside station and see other ppl avatars walking, running, dancing and doing other stuff. In simple idea is to give ppl something else to do than actualy flying in ur spaceship. Now why i'm against it ? Because there is alot of stuff that need to be done to fix eve, before you add new content (yes ppl, fix first THEN add new stuff) and this list look like (random order): - drone ui revamping - new ui ingame that won't suck most of fps - server and client software improovment - fixing forums engine (need to login couple times, random logouts and other session issues, weird reactions after editing post) - writing eve manual (hell maybe its about time ?) - making drones smart (this is pretty old, like since rmr ?) - amarr buff (promised for kali 2) And a lot more stuff that should be done. So this is my petition to ccp, stop wasting manpower on walking in stations and other "most needed" features and start fixing game, thank you very much. Yours Valandril You don't need more than 1 guy to change a lightbulb. In the same vein, you don't need more than X people fixing bugs - Any more and it will simply do more harm then good, because you need to coordinate who does what even more than it is now. Just throwing more people at it will have the opposite effect of what you'd want i'd wager. EVE History Wiki
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 08:08:00 - [12] I do agree Valandril. For those that want walking in stations, go play another MMO. There's nothing you can do on stations except showing off. There are no skills, items, mechanics to use. If they get introduced, it will introduce another level of bugs, instability and problems to TQ. If you are camped and have nothing to do inside the station, get out and get shot or shoot back. Or log off. Walking in stations won't change that. More immersion? Remove local and replace with sensor/scanner interaction. There are so many unfinished things yet adding new ones seems like a good idea. Look at titans, motherships and DDDs. What a problem they became after introduction. CCP has a rather poor track record of adding new features, so don't expect people to hooray this idea. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:25:00 - [13] as long as i get the option not to i dont really care
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 09:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Reiisha You don't need more than 1 guy to change a lightbulb. In the same vein, you don't need more than X people fixing bugs - Any more and it will simply do more harm then good, because you need to coordinate who does what even more than it is now. Just throwing more people at it will have the opposite effect of what you'd want i'd wager. I know about too much ppl effect BUT i would say that there is no one working at ie. drone ui (no resoult and ppl demand new since i remember), so this is not going to happen :P --- Cheap paint ftw
Jhonny Silvers	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:07:00 - [15] Walking in stations is the KING of ideas! All the possibilities for new content are unlimited. Walking in stations I say YES YES YES....
Valandril Caldari Reiketsu. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 10:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Jhonny Silvers Walking in stations is the KING of ideas! All the possibilities for new content are unlimited. Walking in stations I say YES YES YES.... Could you bring some arguments why walking in stations is so awesome ? I would like to know ^^ --- Cheap paint ftw
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:21:00 - [17] i understand why you would like to walk in stations but from a gamers point of view action is the main thing people would want from stations. i personally do not see any advantage to walking around a station that cant be done with a chat window. if you were thinking yes for this walking idea then why not completely overhaul the entire gaming interface and instead of being outside the ship and available to view the game as it was originally made, create an internal interface to the ship where everything is done from the inside. you would completely lose the sense of size of space. i have never played it but it makes me wonder if adding this feature star wars galaxies would pop into peoples heads. apparently thats a walk around kill people on many planets on many servers game, chat above peoples heads etc. anyone with me on saying no to walking in stations?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:26:00 - [18] In simplest of simple terms: It's a non-forced, content add-on that takes no resources from CCP and the current problems that need to be fixed. Thing of it like this: Walk in stations is made by an entirely different game developer and this game developer gives it free to EVE. Now what's the problem with that?
Jhonny Silvers	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Jhonny Silvers Walking in stations is the KING of ideas! All the possibilities for new content are unlimited. Walking in stations I say YES YES YES.... Could you bring some arguments why walking in stations is so awesome ? I would like to know ^^ Ok, Some new stuff could be added. Just think of the possibilities it gives. You could walk in to a bar. Have a sitdown with friend. Gambling, like poker tournaments with isk, blackjack and more. Even run a casino... Have a arena for first person fight turnaments. Bet on those... You could rent space from a station in safe space and run your business there. Well you people are probably right. It would be a totaly different game. Would not protest tough having these features implemented to EVE. It would make EVE more appealing to new players and new things to do for those who are totally bored out of there minds with mining or mission running. - Jhonny -
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Sheriff Jones In simplest of simple terms: It's a non-forced, content add-on that takes no resources from CCP and the current problems that need to be fixed. Thing of it like this: Walk in stations is made by an entirely different game developer and this game developer gives it free to EVE. Now what's the problem with that? Adding totaly unrelated content to an already overloaded TQ seems ok to you? The client cannot handle large battles. Imagine you have 50 people docked at a station and in the same bar. Do you think the current hardware/architecture will handle that with no lag increase ? Now all the people in the bar start shouting at each other. Or perform different interactions. Lag-in-a-can ??? And just how much influnce will that have on the main game in space ? If any, it needs to be created, taking yet more resources from the server. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:29:00 - [21] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/05/2007 12:28:41 Walk in stations will cause as much lag to the maingame as the people in jita cause to 0.0 space. None. Different place where all those calculations happen. If you think it will be laggy in the stations, you're not one that's planning on even going there are you? So shouldn't be a problem to you. About it being unrelated, it's very MUCH related. It opens up roleplay elements in so many levels, people can actually roleplay their characters, and also opens up a whole lot of non-pvp/mining/mission content. Also gives people more insentive to join the game, which means more subscriptions, which means more money, which means more employees to fix the problems you think this takes away from. Hooking up a couple of servers for the walk in stations or not doesn't effect your dronefixes, amarr boosts or any other game element problems you mentioned at all.
Radgun Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.29 12:49:00 - [22] but it will be cool
Nemtar Nataal	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:17:00 - [23] sorry m8 seems like you have a lot of missplaced anger that you are directing against this one feature... And atleast one of the things your are describing should definetly NOT be fixed....drones are DRONES cause they are stupid...that the very definition of a drone a autonom unit that does what you say to the best of it ability People who use drones in addition to there normal firepower should spend more time managing them or else it would precented as unfare and a disadvantage to all those who hadnt bothered to train for 5/5/5/5 drones kills or the people who flyes a race that dosnt have "real" support fore drones... I do agree with the changes to the drone interface...some one take a look at how they do it in C&C, Total Annihalation, Age of Empires ect. would be cool to fly your drones in formation not that it would do much good.... Anyway i most definetly do not support adandening the walk in station project...if anything this feature should have been added even sooner rather then later! whould have given people a real opotunity to play there roles and which would posibley give much more dept the small comunities that are sqawning inside the game. It very much sounds like you want to make this game all about pvp combat at to the vast majorety of the EVE players the EVE univers is so much more...!!!
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/05/2007 12:28:41 Walk in stations will cause as much lag to the maingame as the people in jita cause to 0.0 space. None. Different place where all those calculations happen. If you think it will be laggy in the stations, you're not one that's planning on even going there are you? So shouldn't be a problem to you. About it being unrelated, it's very MUCH related. It opens up roleplay elements in so many levels, people can actually roleplay their characters, and also opens up a whole lot of non-pvp/mining/mission content. Also gives people more insentive to join the game, which means more subscriptions, which means more money, which means more employees to fix the problems you think this takes away from. Hooking up a couple of servers for the walk in stations or not doesn't effect your dronefixes, amarr boosts or any other game element problems you mentioned at all. which means more noobs to kill yay
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:11:00 - [25] I would like to add that you could fly and fight in space with just an overview with no graphics nd people would play that too. not many people it would be an underground cult of gamers. The CEO of CCP LOVES graphics they spent more time on graphics when the game frist came out than they did on content proof is the 1up rating 4 years ago of 4 out of 10 1up just resently gave eve online a 9/10 in games for windows and with the graphics overhual and walking I would be surprized to see EvE get at least one 10 form someone out there and lots of 1/10's form angry people like always
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:15:00 - [26] Imagine trying to walk in a station such as Jita's M4, or Motsu's growing market hub? I predict mess.......lots of mess. "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:31:00 - [27] They arent realy wasting manpower, see they are working on another game and which is going to be using all the new technology their writing. They arent specifically writing it for the "walking in stations" they are just taking a tiny bit of time to adapt what is already being written to give us the ability to walk in stations. Chances are its just a test to iron out some bugs for the new game but my point is still valid, they arent wasting a bunch of time writing all this code just for walking in stations. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar The Suicide Kings FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:38:00 - [28] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/05/2007 20:37:30 Want ghey arsed walking in station Go here or here and pretend. Simply makes no sense for encapsulated people to suddenly eject from their capsule for a stroll to the bar. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
MotherMoon	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 29/05/2007 20:37:30 Want ghey arsed walking in station Go here or here and pretend. Simply makes no sense for encapsulated people to suddenly eject from their capsule for a stroll to the bar. they get out go read the short stories
Valandril Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.05.30 00:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Christopher Dalran They arent realy wasting manpower, see they are working on another game and which is going to be using all the new technology their writing. They arent specifically writing it for the "walking in stations" they are just taking a tiny bit of time to adapt what is already being written to give us the ability to walk in stations. Chances are its just a test to iron out some bugs for the new game but my point is still valid, they arent wasting a bunch of time writing all this code just for walking in stations. I will say it again, there is definitly wrong with current team responsible for fixing issues because it take them from 6 months to 1 years to actualy fix something (instas anyone ?) so maybe not exacly manpower, but money for which they could hire more ppl. Please read whole topic before posting (its only 1 page :P) because it was covered already. --- Cheap paint ftw

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