Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sleet Nova
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 12:44:00 -
[1]
Is it possible to effectively passive tank a rattlesnake to thesame kind of level as a drake for level 4 missions ? if so can anyone reccomend a decent fitting.
Tanks signature removed - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit ([email protected]) |
Marcus Alkhaar
Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly
|
Posted - 2007.05.29 12:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 12:48:14 why oh why would anyone passive tank a rattlesnake?!
edit: no, it cannot be passive tanked the same way as a drake. use active tank + lots of damage mods in the lows.
------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
|
Taoism
IP II IMI IP my pod
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 16:16:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Taoism on 03/06/2007 16:19:17 actually it can tank better than a drake as a passive set-up. 3x recharge rigs 6x t2 spr 3x t2 lg extender that combo (depending on ur skills) will give about a 185 recharge time on 24k shields and leave 3 slots for appropriate hardeners. or add 3 t2 shield rechargers and get roughly 115 second recharge for around 208 shield per sec. far better than a drake. personaly i think the hardeners are a better idea, don't need quite as much recharge if ur takin 1/2 to 1/3 the damage in the first place.
edit: maybe not far better, but still better. an it certainly doesn't lack firepower like a passive drake.
|
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 19:32:00 -
[4]
Purely for recharge rate purposes, one T2 large extender then only T2 shield rechargers is better as several T2 large extenders. As for firepower, you can easily make it a 3-BCU, 3-SPR setup, this way you can also run two or three hardners in the mids, for both a decent tank and some decent damage output. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 19:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 12:48:14 why oh why would anyone passive tank a rattlesnake?!
edit: no, it cannot be passive tanked the same way as a drake. use active tank + lots of damage mods in the lows.
People like you are dangerous. You obviously don't know anything about the Rattlesnake, but you post here anyway. The OP may believe you, and form similar opinions even though he's never tried to passive tank a Rattlesnake either. Then someone else asks on the forums, and the OP will post in it telling that person that it's not possible, thus perpetuating a continual cycle of ignorance, which is why there are so many idiots on these forums posting utter rubbish. Like you.
Here's an effective all-round PvE setup for a Rattlesnake (swap the Invulns for rat-specs if you want). I personally wouldn't take a Rattler into PvP since it's inability to tackle and low dps (for a faction ship) would mean you could better spend your money on a Vindicator or Machariel.
6 x Siege/Cruise 2 x Heavy Nos
3 x Invuln Field II 2 x LSE II 1 x Shield Recharger II
3 x BCS II 2-3 x SPR II 0-1 x CPU II (you might need one to fit all the Siege Launchers, with my 'Snake I tended to fit large hybrids in the last two/four hislots, for the lulz!)
3 x Shield Recharge rigs
And whatever drones.
I can't give you the numbers for dps tanked/second, but it's pretty damn high, and coupled with your tremendous shield hp (it'll be 30-35,000+) should mean you can take a huge beating before you go down.
I personally used 4 SPRs and Cruise Launchers when I passive tanked. Not great dps, but you sure as hell tanked everything. Even vs. Blood Raiders when they stole all your cap and your hardeners turned off, the tank held. In retrospect, I was probably overdoing it.
---
Originally by: Galack Fyar Burn in a hole
|
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 19:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T Purely for recharge rate purposes, one T2 large extender then only T2 shield rechargers is better as several T2 large extenders. As for firepower, you can easily make it a 3-BCU, 3-SPR setup, this way you can also run two or three hardners in the mids, for both a decent tank and some decent damage output.
More extenders = more HP, meaning its harder to shoot through the peakrecharge. Imagine a tempest firing a volley, ripping from 30% shield to 10% shield. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 20:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Akita T Purely for recharge rate purposes, one T2 large extender then only T2 shield rechargers is better as several T2 large extenders. As for firepower, you can easily make it a 3-BCU, 3-SPR setup, this way you can also run two or three hardners in the mids, for both a decent tank and some decent damage output.
More extenders = more HP, meaning its harder to shoot through the peakrecharge. Imagine a tempest firing a volley, ripping from 30% shield to 10% shield.
My sentiments exactly. 100% truth.
---
Originally by: Galack Fyar Burn in a hole
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 21:02:00 -
[8]
Passive tank it, gimp its DPS, and the recharge is not all that impressive. Rattlesnake needs cap rigs and a gistii booster, then we'll talk. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 21:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Akita T Purely for recharge rate purposes, one T2 large extender then only T2 shield rechargers is better as several T2 large extenders. As for firepower, you can easily make it a 3-BCU, 3-SPR setup, this way you can also run two or three hardners in the mids, for both a decent tank and some decent damage output.
More extenders = more HP, meaning its harder to shoot through the peakrecharge. Imagine a tempest firing a volley, ripping from 30% shield to 10% shield.
My sentiments exactly. 100% truth.
That is usually not what matters in a level 4 mission.
Rattlesnake
Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Turret Slot Turret Slot
Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \
18450 shield, 151.49/s, E/T/K/Ex=30/73/80/71 11622 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 6375.0 cap, +7.33/s, -7.2/s 144.0 m/s 351.4 DPS
I pew therefore I am.
|
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 22:12:00 -
[10]
The OP asked for a L4 missionrunning setup. In missionrunning, you usualy want to tank as much "continuous stream" DPS as possible, not have a large buffer. The many-LSE setup might be decent for PvP, but for mission-running, it's 1x LSE rest rechargers. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
|
Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 07:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Hectaire Glade on 04/06/2007 07:20:15 I use a passive tanked Rattler for level 4s and it works superbly, i use an omni-tank fit as I can't be bothered to swap hardners, nor have I yet come across a situaton where i needed to, or where i needed to warp out for that matter, my current fit:
6 DG Cruise Launchers (T2 works fine, of course), Drone Link, Tractor 2x LSE II, Pithum A Heat (Passive), Pithum A Magnetic (Passive), 2 DG Invulns 2 SPR II, 3 BCU II or Faction 3 Field Purger Rigs 5 Med II Drones, and 5 Lights, rat specific
Its an outstanding tank, very healthy DPS, eats missions at an alarming rate. Cap stable around the 50% mark. I can't praise this ship enough for level 4 missions, its fantastic and more differentiated than your cookie-cutter CNR fit.
Only thing I may do is go for the T2 rigs once the prices normalize a little, but tbh it doesnt need it.
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 09:22:00 -
[12]
Any rattlesnake pilot with a clue will out-tank and by far out-damage all these setups. Its not that hard to permarun a large booster, so the advantage of 'not suffering of lag' is non-existent. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 16:44:00 -
[13]
ôAny rattlesnake pilot with a clue will out-tank and by far out-damage all these setups.ö Can you prove that and post some numbers?
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Taoism
IP II IMI IP my pod
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 20:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sokratesz Any rattlesnake pilot with a clue will out-tank and by far out-damage all these setups. Its not that hard to permarun a large booster, so the advantage of 'not suffering of lag' is non-existent.
obviously we have a e-peen waving troll. so much for a constructive discussion of the merits of a rattlesnake as a passive tank. to state that any "rattlesnake pilot with a clue" will out damage and out tank all of the set-ups posted is just ********. by clue you must mean a wallet full of tens of billions of isk, because the only way you are out damaging a DG siege+ 3 bcs2 set-up is with estamils launchers and bcs or some other (kaikka's, thon's, vepas) rediculously priced officer mods made of unobtainium for the most part as far as pilots "with a clue" are concerned. and i won't even get into the out tanking. most of the set-ups listed are very good and i think the OP's question has been answered. a rattlesnake is quite an effective passive tanker for lvl 4 missions. makes me chuckle to see a character with a year and four months (almost)in the game flappin about how clueless all these others are. prolly can't even fly a rattlesnake, so how would you know?
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 20:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 04/06/2007 21:00:47
Originally by: Pottsey ôAny rattlesnake pilot with a clue will out-tank and by far out-damage all these setups.ö Can you prove that and post some numbers?
Rattlesnake.
6x siege launcher II
7.52 ROF, 780 hit per torp
6x780/7.52=622DPS from missiles
Whats the DPS of a rattlesnake without any BCU-II's? 65% lower, yes, thank you.
3x rat specific hardener, T2 or DG if you need the CPU. Gets your mission specific resists to 75 - 80% with one DCU-II and perhaps an invu field as addition. With one SBA-II the gist x-type large booster boosts 365.84 shield every 3.2s, resulting in 365.84/3.2/.15=750DPS tanked, enough for all lvl 4 missions provided you run them correctly.
The booster runs indefinetly with good cap skills and 3x CCC rigs. The DPS of about half the lvl 4 missions will easily break the passive setusp above here, if they choose to fit BCUs over additional recharge mods, gimping their tank or their dps significantly.
So, please, give me a setup that come close in dps and tank. Oh, and this setup only costs 1.5bil isk INCLUDING the ship. Not exactly 'tens of billions', so please, Taoism, try again.
Stop posting crap setusp and get this ship what she deserves for being the sexiest piece of metal space ass ever.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 21:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 04/06/2007 21:21:13 My fit, to please the ****. 6x siege II
gist x-type large booster sba ii 4x hardeners / 3 hards & TP
3x bcu-ii 2x pdu (named) 1x DCU (named)
Taoism also just proved to me in a convo that he knows NOTHING about the stacking penalty. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Miriyana
Gallente Galactic Savings and Investments
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 21:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 12:48:14 why oh why would anyone passive tank a rattlesnake?!
edit: no, it cannot be passive tanked the same way as a drake. use active tank + lots of damage mods in the lows.
That's not what lexor slice said
- - - - - - Change just leads to more problems |
Taoism
IP II IMI IP my pod
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 22:18:00 -
[18]
actually sokratesz, all that was proven in our conversation is that you don't know how to use a calculator. and your last 2 posts prove you can't read as well. you asked for a fit that will out damage or out tank yours. 5th post up from your last post will out-damage yours. or do you want to throw around some more poorly executed math that will convince everyone that t2 sieges with 3 bcs will fire faster than DG siege with 3 bcs?
|
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 04:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 05/06/2007 04:17:55 Im done talking to you, common sense + ti-83 is a powerful tool. You havent shown me one single calculation to prove me wrong.
I am eagerly awaiting pottseys reply, cause usually, whatever she posts, its got some backup, in contrast to your senseless bantering. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 05:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sokratesz
My fit
6x siege II
gist x-type large booster sba ii 4x hardeners / 3 hards & TP
3x bcu-ii 2x pdu (named) 1x DCU (named)
3xCCC rigs
Your fit, aprox 18450 shield, boosts 913.92 shield every 4 sec, for 228.48 shield/sec boosted. That, at a cost of 183.6 cap every 4 seconds (with max skills), or 45.9 cap/second drain. Your peak cap recharge is merely 49.3 cap/second at max skills and with T2 PDUs, so you have to cycle the booster now an then... as the 3+ hardners eat up 6+ cap/second, on top of the almost 46/second of your booster, for a 52+ total drain out of your under-50/sec peak. Oh, and you also have the drain from the damage control. You can get over the needed peak recharge by using officer PDUs, of course. Or switch down to a smaller booster. You also get a peak shield passive recharge of aprox 30.92 shield/sec at best, for an absolute max of 259.4 shield/sec regen.
Of course, you also have slightly better resists due to the damage control, but you can't "run forever" your above setup, as already pointed out.
vs "the other guy's fit"
6x siege II
1x LSEII 2x SR-II 3x hardner
3x bcu-ii 3x SPR-II
3x purger rigs
That comes down to around 20180 shield HP, rechargeable in 289.25 seconds, or 174.4 shield/second peak recharge. This passive setup tanks significantly less as your setup, deals the exact same damage, but doesn't use a half-bil booster. By simply removing the THIRD BCU and adding a fourth SPR (you can still run 3 hardners), you get a peak recharge of 229.49 shield/second, almost the same as your tank, while only sacrificing minimal damage.
Nobody said a passive tank Rattlesnake is BETTER as the best you can get out of an active Rattlesnake, but you can get more than decent results by passive-tanking it, with gear worth a lot less ISK. Kind of a moot point (the module ISK cost) if you consider how much the Rattlesnake costs in the first place, but you get the idea.
I wouldn't call your setup one that "out-tanks and out-damages by far" the passive ones. Ok, it does out-tank it by a good margin, and it SLIGHTLY outdamages it, but that's all. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
|
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 06:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Pottsey on 05/06/2007 06:18:36 ô3x rat specific hardener, T2 or DG if you need the CPU. Gets your mission specific resists to 75 - 80% with one DCU-II and perhaps an invu field as addition. With one SBA-II the gist x-type large booster boosts 365.84 shield every 3.2s, resulting in 365.84/3.2/.15=750DPS tanked, enough for all lvl 4 missions provided you run them correctly.ö Not sure how many noticed but itÆs gets 365 per 3.2 seconds that only 114.0625 HP/s per second. If I use the same 3 BCUÆs and hardeners as you I hit 241 at peak thatÆs all with T2 modules in a gang, its 211hp/s solo.
Was yours with crystal implants? I think it would be fair to add them on if not. Anyone who can afford a faction ship can use a handful of expansive items. I used All 3 shield passive tank implants they are cheaper then the crystals but frankly with an active or passive tank lvl 4 mission are easy so ISK income isnÆt a problem.
My setup was 3 hardeners, well I left the slots empty, 3 BCU again I left the slots empty. Then I fit 3 SPRÆs T2, 1 large extender, 2 shield recharges both T2 and 3 prugers T2 in quickfit.
3x rat specific hardener are ok but 3 invul fields make you run out of cap. 2 invul field with 1passive hardener is ok. I guess you could swap 1 SPR for 1 PDS and run 3 invul fields.
Sokratesz is right though you really should fit damage mods. My current Domi has 2 damage mods and 2 tracking mods. To many people fall into the trap of over tanking and using every slot up with passive tanks. If you deal more damage you need less of a tank and do missions faster.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 06:30:00 -
[22]
P.S. I calced Sokratesz's setup with gist XLarge X-type, not gist large X-type :P For the large, cut the boosted amount in half, and remove the "capacitor issues". _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 06:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 05/06/2007 06:46:11
Indeed, its a large not xlarge. The margin is indeed less then i thought but still. X-large booster doesnt fit anyway. And if you add in LG chrystal it will by far outtank it for 500mil more. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:09:00 -
[24]
With large x-type and T2 SBA, you get 365.84 shield every 3.2 sec (i.e. 114.325 per sec) for a 28.6875 cap/sec drain (with maxskills). Add to that the 30.92 shield/sec peak recharge you get (calced using the EXACT SAME implants as in the passive setup), and you get merely 145.245 shield/second regenerated.
Assuming you have an IFFA-I, that's -11.5% non-stack-nerfed shield resists, for an equivalent 164.12 shield/sec regenerated (if you want to compare it to a non-DC setup), and an equivalent buffer of (non-DC-resist boosted) 20847 shield HP. The passive setup with 3 BCUs regenerates 174.4 shield/second peak on a 20180 HP total.
Your active setup can use an extra hardner instead of the painter, but other than that, the tank is pretty much the same. Sure, you can also use crystal implants for even more tank, but that's a lot of extra ISK.
Just admit it, the Rattlesnake passive-tanks a LOT BETTER as you thought it did Not only that, but it passive-tanks better as it can "T2-only, no-crystals" activetank _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 05/06/2007 07:18:56 Hehe. Estamels modified large shield extender
+10k
Dracliras modified shield power relay
-75% cap recharge -50% shield recharge
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 05/06/2007 07:18:56 Hehe. Estamels modified large shield extender +10k Dracliras modified shield power relay -75% cap recharge -50% shield recharge
And of course, you realize, I would fit two of each on a Nighthawk _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:26:00 -
[27]
Anyway, to conclude this mess.
Passive rattlesnake works, to an extent, but its blasphemy!
Oh, and that one guy who said i was a troll, doesnt know his numbers nor his stacking penalty nor can have a proper discussion with his GF (as he informed me of just before he closed the in-game convo we had) Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 07:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz Passive rattlesnake works, to an extent, but its blasphemy!
You must have not seen my passive shieltanked gankAbaddon and gankHarbinger yet... you know, with all talk of blasphemy and such. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 08:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 05/06/2007 08:23:58
If this was the dark age i'd have your burned for witchcraft.
Rattlesnake is like a beautiful woman, it needs lingerie (gistii booster) before it really shines, not some wetsuit.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 12:05:00 -
[30]
It is blasphemy only Gallante ships should passive tank. I say we burn all Caldari passive tank ships and none Gallente pilots who passive tank. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |