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Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:10:00 - [1] Not been involved in huge amounts of PVP up to now and what I have been has mostly been in cheap "expendable" frigates and cruisers. However I can now fly a t2 fitted BS and afford to lose a few so, with more PVP looming I am starting to look at fittings. One point am am a little unsure of is what sort of DPS I should be looking for in a respectable fitting, not all out gank, that does not suit my style. What would people view as reasonable DPS for T2 fitted PVP BS. I ask mostly because the numbers I come up with using quickfit (or my own calculations) seem well short of some of the nubers I see quoted on some threads here.
Don Jehova Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:52:00 - [2] Depends on what ship your in, and what you want to use it for. I fly a domi myself with roughly 450 dps. That may not sound like alot, but since its pure drone damage, the actual fitting consist of nos and ewar. I think that is respectable. However a pure ganking Megathron should get a dps way higher than that. Dps is not always the most important thing. In some situations it is very useful (ganking/gate camping), in some it isnt (solo pvp/gang support).
El Torrent Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.29 13:54:00 - [3] My gang Battleship (a Megathron) does somewhat over 1150 dps. Thats already pretty nice. -- Hello World.
Andrachim Tar'nar The first genesis	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:05:00 - [4] Originally by: El Torrent My gang Battleship (a Megathron) does somewhat over 1150 dps. Thats already pretty nice. Thats very "not all out gank" :P Well, what kind of race/bs you going to fly ?
Caffeine Junkie Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 29/05/2007 14:19:07 400 - 500 with a semi-decent tank. Start off with a BS you can use at range to get used to the concept, its very different from flying cruisers / frigs in PvP. For all its flaws a cruise Raven is a pretty effective sniper in fleet situations because you can still use it effectively without T2 gear. Laser / Rail / Projectile battleships realistically need T2 guns and ammo to be effective at range. Try with this setup. 6x T1 Cruise Launchers with mixed damage types 2x Heavy NOS (in case tacklers get close) 1x XL C-5L Shield Booster 2x Invulnerability Fields (or V-514 thingys) 1x Sensor Booster 1x Heavy Cap Injector 1x EM Hardener 3x Ballistic Control Units 2x Power Diags 5x Hammerheads (in case tacklers get close) Relatively cheap, low skill requirements and effective. Engage at around 100km out. If you want to get close up in the future look at a dual-rep ion-blaster megathron. To stay at range Tempest/Maelstrom with T2 artys. One of the big problems with missiles is your target is often dead before they get there. ___________________ =
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:30:00 - [6] Thanks for the replies so far. I have done some PVP in BS's with a little success but so far my approach to fitting has been more trial and error than scientific. What I am really trying to establish here are some baseline numbers to give me a frame of reference to work with. I seem to recall seeing a theoretical max DPS of around 1500 for a ganked out Megathron ? Is that about right for absolute top end DPS ? Can a ship doing much over 1000 DPS have any significant tank, or is it really a choice between 4 figure DPS and defensive ability ?
Caffeine Junkie Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.29 14:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 29/05/2007 15:03:22 Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 29/05/2007 14:53:32 The BSs that work really well in PvP generally put survivability first, your DPS is 0 once your dead. Its very difficult to fit a very good tank and high DPS, particularly without spending the earth on pimped out faction gear. The best combination i've ever seen was a dual faction rep Vindicator with 7x Ion Blaster IIs, faction hardeners, cap booster, mwd, everything. Even that died once it ran out of cap charges, oh and the pilot had more skills than Ronaldo! Video of it in action: Linkage ___________________ =
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:07:00 - [8] Abaddon with MP-II and conflag can do 1100+ and still have a single LAR tank with lowest resist 68% and 60% on structure. Of course that is EM/Therm dps, so meh... Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:10:00 - [9] Thanks - lets take a hypothetical BS, based on a couple of those I can fly and fit - DPS 500-600 including drones (pulses or autocannons depending on which of my two BS races I pick). Running the tank lasers will fire for around 2.5 minutes. - tank: all resistances in the 70-75 range, LAR2 MAR2 that will run as long as I have boosters left if I am not too heavily nossed. My estimates say a ship doing 1000 DPS will take about 3.5 or 4 mins to kill me. Id that a workable small gang BS outline ?
Andrachim Tar'nar The first genesis	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Andrachim Tar''nar on 29/05/2007 15:25:00 Edited by: Andrachim Tar''nar on 29/05/2007 15:19:00 Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler I seem to recall seeing a theoretical max DPS of around 1500 for a ganked out Megathron ? Is that about right for absolute top end DPS ? That's so theoretical and expensive it's not even funny, it might be best to forget that figure :P Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Can a ship doing much over 1000 DPS have any significant tank ? With plain T2 gear ( that's what you should be aiming for unless you are very rich and sure about what you are doing ) and without gangboni / implants: not really. "Gank" basicly means sacrificing tank in two ways: a) Fitting the largest and most dmging weapons which consume much pg/cpu b) Fitting as many damage mod's as you can Doing that will harm your tank, cause you most likely won't be able to fit as many repairers / boosters / amplifiers / hardeners / a cap injector / whatever you need to make your tank more effective, cause you will run out of slots/pg/cpu. Thats the basic balancing rule. It's possible to work around that with faction/officer gear and implants (edited) and now with rigs as well, but that could be a thing you might want to avoid as well for the moment. It's hard to define where "gank" starts tho, cause everyone will have his own opinion about a good dps figure and then every bs has it's own strengths / problems apart from dps figures and tanking ability. Also it's very situational. In a gang you might be able to fit for higher dps cause there is remote repping going on anyways. You need to find a balance between dps / tank / sustainability according to the situation the ship will be engaging.

Gabriel Karade Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:44:00 - [11] Well my Megathron manages 889 dps from turrets, the setup I've settled with over the last year is I think, the perfect balance of speed, firepower and survivabilty, it's not a gank ship by any stretch of the imagination. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Marcus Alkhaar Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly	Posted - 2007.05.29 15:44:00 - [12] Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 15:45:15 for gang pvp there is 2 really good choices for you.... (I think you're using amarr and matari BS?) Geddon: 7x megapulse II 1x 20km scram 1x med cap booster 1x target painter / second scram / web / tracking computer 3x 1600mm rolled tungsten 3x Heat sink II 1x pseudoelectrochemical damage control 1x EANM II RigS: 3x trimark armor pump I Drones: Berserker II/ Ogre II Dishing out a good 1100-1180 DPS while having 40236 armor, on pretty good resistance... its more than any rep-tank is gonna tank anyway. It got all-out gank at the same time... I know its not "your style", but seriously, you should give it a try.... (second thought, you can remove 1 heat sink for another EANM II if you want to) Maelstrom: 8x 800mm repeating artillery II 1x X-Large shield booster II 1x heavy electrochemical cap injector 2x Invulnerability field II 2x 'copasetic' I particle Field accelerator (or swap 1 SBA for a 20km scram) 3x Gyrostabilizer II 1x pseudoelectron containment field I 1x Beta Reactor control: Diagnostic system Rigs: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermic Screen Reinforcer I drones: Ogre II There is a good ~930 DPS with Barrage.. or ~1100 with Hail (though it dont got range to hit anything when there is no speedmod fitted) with a Huge tank to back it up. EDIT: sry for disrespecting your post, but ganking and tanking at the same timer rawks!.. oh, and it takes a 3% cpu implant to fit both setups. ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:05:00 - [13] I'd say 1200-1300dps is about the max a T2 fitted BS will achieve, maybe 1-200 more Drone only Domis only do 475dps max, but if they're correctly interfering with their enemies tank then it doesn't really matter. So 500dps is low end BS DPS 750dps is pretty high and 1000+dps is insane. IMO A Dual LAR II tank with 70% resistance all over tanks 439dps. FYI.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:10:00 - [14] It depends on a few factors. if u are using a decent amount of nos then as little as 200-300 dps will be enough to break tanks. if ur not and want to down ur targets in a decent amount of time then i'd say at least 500 is ideally needed if u have a decent tank. some ppl do prefer more gank ships and anything over 1000 dps is very high dps and little tank is needed 1v1. if u don't have a decent tank and have less than 500 dps raw and not lots of nos then i'd say there's somthing wrong. DE
Valadeya uthanaras	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:14:00 - [15] Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 29/05/2007 16:18:18 IF you want to try it, here a nice little geddon setup 4 Megapulse t2 Conflag/scorch 3 Dual heavy Pulse t2 conflag/scorch 1 heavy diminishing nosferatu 1 medium electrochemical capacitor booster with 800 1 x5 Statis webifier 1 faint warp disruptor 1 large armor repairer t2 1 internal force field array 2 true sancha adaptive nano plate(they cost like 3-4mil each for 17.5% resist, no cpu use) 2 1600mm rolled tungsten plate 2 heat sink t2 1 anti-explosive pump 1 anti-kinetic pump 1 anti-thermal pump(mainly for low cost) 5 ogre II results 650dps with guns, easely over 200dps out of drone(dont have the exact number) 19000 armor with lowest resist at 64 single large rep tank cap stable, unless heavy nossed(red nosdomi) for more than 5 min with bs 5 have fun edit: forgot to say...gun dps are for conflag, without top skill/implant....but put in scorch...and you it at 45km optimal(average...absolute max of 60km)with over 500 dps out of guns(drone are too slow....) and btw...corp mate had to take out a pimped navy mega to take it down before i heated trought him.......normal mega are easy target with this thing :P
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras 2 true sancha adaptive nano plate(they cost like 3-4mil each for 17.5% resist, no cpu use) those things really rule when fitting a geddon. as you say dead cheap too and with decent comp skills they are almost as good as an eanm without them DE
Valadeya uthanaras	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:21:00 - [17] Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 29/05/2007 16:26:41 double post...... and yup.....as you say DE.....they are dead cheap, let you fit everything else(2 cpu left ) for low scale empire war. its really a jewel, for small gang or solo you might also, consider carrying around in your cargo a ECCM radar(for scorp) and 2 sensor booster(damp/faster lock) while you have the possibiliy to quickly refit and forgive my spelling mistake and also...key to make it work is to always allign some place at top speed and let the other guy following you....tracking on amarr guns is a bit rubbish....even with top skill
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2007.05.29 16:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 15:45:15 for gang pvp there is 2 really good choices for you.... (I think you're using amarr and matari BS?) Geddon: 7x megapulse II 1x 20km scram 1x med cap booster 1x target painter / second scram / web / tracking computer 3x 1600mm rolled tungsten 3x Heat sink II 1x pseudoelectrochemical damage control 1x EANM II RigS: 3x trimark armor pump I Drones: Berserker II/ Ogre II Dishing out a good 1100-1180 DPS while having 40236 armor, on pretty good resistance... its more than any rep-tank is gonna tank anyway. It got all-out gank at the same time... I know its not "your style", but seriously, you should give it a try.... (second thought, you can remove 1 heat sink for another EANM II if you want to) This set-up is really ftw. I've flown the same but without the rigs. I think im going to buy a geddon and add further weapon upgrade rigs. Wonder how the DPS would be then
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:03:00 - [19] With my crummy skills and a thron fitted thusly: 7 x Anode Ion w/AntiM 1 x Heavy Knave Nos 1 x 100mn MWD II 1 x X5 Web 1 x J5 20km Scram 1 x Electrchem eavy cap booster w/800s 1 x LAR II 1 x Active Thermal II 1 x Active Kinetic II 1 x Active Explosive II 1 x Emergency DC 2 x MagStab II 5 x Berserker I and no rigs According to quickfit, gives me 549.499 dps. That's 66.3 per gun and 17.3 per drone. I have nearly no drone skills, Gallente BS 3 and Large Hybrid 3. Not so terrifying. Then again, quickfit says the above doesn't fit with CPU, and I just relogged and checked and that's exactly what I have on there, so maybe quickfit lies. --- Originally by: Galack Fyar Burn in a hole
xenodia Gallente Vengeance Factor	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Not been involved in huge amounts of PVP up to now and what I have been has mostly been in cheap "expendable" frigates and cruisers. However I can now fly a t2 fitted BS and afford to lose a few so, with more PVP looming I am starting to look at fittings. One point am am a little unsure of is what sort of DPS I should be looking for in a respectable fitting, not all out gank, that does not suit my style. What would people view as reasonable DPS for T2 fitted PVP BS. I ask mostly because the numbers I come up with using quickfit (or my own calculations) seem well short of some of the nubers I see quoted on some threads here. Probably somewhere in the 600-900 range if you dont want to go gank fitting, depending upon skills and ship type. A gank fitted mega will be roughly 1200. Gank fitted domi (harder to fit) will be more like 1300 with good drone skills + good guns skills. At the other end of the spectrum, a fully NOS domi will be only around 475-500, but have a really nice tank and nos the living crap out of you.

xenodia Gallente Vengeance Factor	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler I seem to recall seeing a theoretical max DPS of around 1500 for a ganked out Megathron ? Is that about right for absolute top end DPS ? Can a ship doing much over 1000 DPS have any significant tank, or is it really a choice between 4 figure DPS and defensive ability ? Might have been a vindicator pushing 1500. I dont think a mega can hit 1500 even pimped out with faction mods. With a somewhat affordable T2 fitting, mega will be roughly 1200 DPS. Similarly fitted domi will be up around 1300 with good drone skills. Both of those are glass jaw setups though, meaning if you get shot at (which is likely), you will die pretty quickly, thus reducing your dps to 0. I prefer to go with a more balanced setup with somewhat less DPS but way more survivability. Actually for pvp I prefer the myrmidon, as it can deal close to 700dps with a full (dual rep) tank.
Marcus Alkhaar Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly	Posted - 2007.05.29 17:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Marquis Dean With my crummy skills and a thron fitted thusly: 7 x Anode Ion w/AntiM 1 x Heavy Knave Nos 1 x 100mn MWD II 1 x X5 Web 1 x J5 20km Scram 1 x Electrchem eavy cap booster w/800s 1 x LAR II 1 x Active Thermal II 1 x Active Kinetic II 1 x Active Explosive II 1 x Emergency DC 2 x MagStab II 5 x Berserker I and no rigs According to quickfit, gives me 549.499 dps. That's 66.3 per gun and 17.3 per drone. I have nearly no drone skills, Gallente BS 3 and Large Hybrid 3. Not so terrifying. Then again, quickfit says the above doesn't fit with CPU, and I just relogged and checked and that's exactly what I have on there, so maybe quickfit lies. wrong thread tbh The OP flies Amarr and Matari BS.... not gallente just pointing it out ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.29 18:16:00 - [23] Originally by: xenodia Might have been a vindicator pushing 1500. I dont think a mega can hit 1500 even pimped out with faction mods. Umm...why does everyone think a Vindi is more gank than a Mega? Just cause it's faction? Lets compare: Mega has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 5% dmg bonus/lvl (25% at lvl5) 7 lowslots Vindi has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 25% flat damage bonus 7 lowslots They do the same DPS, only real difference is that your cap ain't gimped when fitting MWD on a Vindi and Vindi has an extra midslot for toys. Get it right!!!
xenodia Gallente Vengeance Factor	Posted - 2007.05.29 20:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: xenodia Might have been a vindicator pushing 1500. I dont think a mega can hit 1500 even pimped out with faction mods. Umm...why does everyone think a Vindi is more gank than a Mega? Just cause it's faction? Lets compare: Mega has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 5% dmg bonus/lvl (25% at lvl5) 7 lowslots Vindi has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 25% flat damage bonus 7 lowslots They do the same DPS, only real difference is that your cap ain't gimped when fitting MWD on a Vindi and Vindi has an extra midslot for toys. Get it right!!! not everyone has gallente bs 5. Also the vindi is more likely to have the faction mods that would push it beyond the 1200 DPS range of a typical mega. Afterall, if youre going to drop a billion isk on a faction battleship, whats another 500-600 mil on mods ? The OP said he remembered seeing something about a mega pushing 1500 dps. My point was that it was most likely a vindi. But yes technically there is no reason a pilot with gallente BS 5 couldnt spend ludicrous isk on mods and get a megathron up that high (although it begs the question of why not spend a bit more and get the extra mid slot and MWD bonus of the vindi).
KLizMaN Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:12:00 - [25] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 29/05/2007 15:45:15 for gang pvp there is 2 really good choices for you.... (I think you're using amarr and matari BS?) Geddon: 7x megapulse II 1x 20km scram 1x med cap booster 1x target painter / second scram / web / tracking computer 3x 1600mm rolled tungsten 3x Heat sink II 1x pseudoelectrochemical damage control 1x EANM II RigS: 3x trimark armor pump I Drones: Berserker II/ Ogre II Dishing out a good 1100-1180 DPS while having 40236 armor, on pretty good resistance... its more than any rep-tank is gonna tank anyway. It got all-out gank at the same time... I know its not "your style", but seriously, you should give it a try.... (second thought, you can remove 1 heat sink for another EANM II if you want to) This set-up is really ftw. I've flown the same but without the rigs. I think im going to buy a geddon and add further weapon upgrade rigs. Wonder how the DPS would be then Add a 5% rof implant and swap one of the trimarks rigs for a damage rig and you'll be pushing well over 1300++ raw dps
Balian Bowmaker	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:34:00 - [26] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Corwain Originally by: xenodia Might have been a vindicator pushing 1500. I dont think a mega can hit 1500 even pimped out with faction mods. Umm...why does everyone think a Vindi is more gank than a Mega? Just cause it's faction? Lets compare: Mega has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 5% dmg bonus/lvl (25% at lvl5) 7 lowslots Vindi has: 8 highslots, 7 turrets 25% flat damage bonus 7 lowslots They do the same DPS, only real difference is that your cap ain't gimped when fitting MWD on a Vindi and Vindi has an extra midslot for toys. Get it right!!! not everyone has gallente bs 5. Also the vindi is more likely to have the faction mods that would push it beyond the 1200 DPS range of a typical mega. Afterall, if youre going to drop a billion isk on a faction battleship, whats another 500-600 mil on mods ? The OP said he remembered seeing something about a mega pushing 1500 dps. My point was that it was most likely a vindi. But yes technically there is no reason a pilot with gallente BS 5 couldnt spend ludicrous isk on mods and get a megathron up that high (although it begs the question of why not spend a bit more and get the extra mid slot and MWD bonus of the vindi). Faction mods dont really increase your DPS as much as they have the potential to increase your tank. Shadow Serp Magstabs only do 2.5% more dmg bonus over a magstab II...
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:52:00 - [27] Originally by: xenodia not everyone has gallente bs 5. Also the vindi is more likely to have the faction mods that would push it beyond the 1200 DPS range of a typical mega. Afterall, if youre going to drop a billion isk on a faction battleship, whats another 500-600 mil on mods ? The OP said he remembered seeing something about a mega pushing 1500 dps. My point was that it was most likely a vindi. But yes technically there is no reason a pilot with gallente BS 5 couldnt spend ludicrous isk on mods and get a megathron up that high (although it begs the question of why not spend a bit more and get the extra mid slot and MWD bonus of the vindi). Sorry, thought you were talking about max theoretical DPS, not what is actually cost-effective. Tell truth though lots of Vindis are set up to tank not gank with dual faction reppers, so they acutally tend to do less DPS than most Megas which are usally plate+Neutron II and 3x Magstab II fitted.
Brucce Minmatar Area 88	Posted - 2007.05.30 05:29:00 - [28] Edited by: Brucce on 30/05/2007 05:29:25 go with a maelstrom 8x 800mm IIs 1 xlarge SBII, 2 SBAII, 2x Invul IIs, 1 Heavy Cap Injector 4 GyroStab IIs, 1 Co Processor II with BS 4, and good gunnery skills, ive got 1300dps with hail+ drones 900dps with barrage+drones and can hit out to 45k with rigs course this is a gang setup, as you have no means of tackling... but the tank is awesome...can boost 1300 every 4 seconds
Tommy Vercetti Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Marquis Dean According to quickfit, gives me 549.499 dps. That's 66.3 per gun and 17.3 per drone. I have nearly no drone skills, Gallente BS 3 and Large Hybrid 3. Not so terrifying. Then again, quickfit says the above doesn't fit with CPU, and I just relogged and checked and that's exactly what I have on there, so maybe quickfit lies. Quickfit does lie with DPS figures. Use naughty boy's spreadsheet for dps calcs or figure it out manually if your real keen.
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:58:00 - [30] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Geddon: 7x megapulse II 1x 20km scram 1x med cap booster 1x target painter / second scram / web / tracking computer 3x 1600mm rolled tungsten 3x Heat sink II 1x pseudoelectrochemical damage control 1x EANM II RigS: 3x trimark armor pump I Drones: Berserker II/ Ogre II Dishing out a good 1100-1180 DPS while having 40236 armor, on pretty good resistance... its more than any rep-tank is gonna tank anyway. It got all-out gank at the same time... I know its not "your style", but seriously, you should give it a try.... (second thought, you can remove 1 heat sink for another EANM II if you want to) I do like the look of this setup but would prefer an afterburner. In my hanger there is a spare Abbadon I have never used so I might try a varient: 7x MegapUlse 2 1x heavy nos (might be another MP2 - not near quickfit so unsure whether 8th MP2 will fit) Cap booster web 100mn AB 1 spare midslot (not sure what to fit here - not much PG about 30 cpu so could be scrambler) LAR2 3 x 1600 RT plate EANM 2 DC HS Gives similar resists to the Geddy version with 2 HS and 2 Eanm due to Abbadons tank bonus. With only 1 HS gank is lower but Abbadon has 1 extra laser to partially compensate. Slightly better tank due to extra HP and LAR2. LAR is as much for repair between fights as during. If I hit cap issues I can switch of LAR and rely on HP. Any thoughts ?



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