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Eve, Star Wars, Capital Ships, and You

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Red Crown Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:23:00 - [1] Whats the different between Eve and Star wars when it comes to capitals? Eve follows the more real battleship design - 3, 4 super-heavy barrel turrets while star wars has ships with 10s of what we might consider "Battleship/Large" sized guns. Imagine a ship. A capital ship. With 15, 20 Large Guns. You say? Yes - a capital ship designed for medium gang enviroments. It'd be a capital ship - jump drive, lots of HP (Not near Dread, less than carrier) Since most ships don't have that many highslots, we could kill two birds with one stone - have a "turret battery" module. Like, 3 guns in one. Ship has 5-7 highslots. So, 5 Triple 800MM AutoCannon Battery I, Prototype cloak I, Warfare Link in highs. True to itself, it does the damage of 4-6 battleships. But wait ! We have an opportunity to stop focused fire. Think, a stacking nerf penalty to multiple turret batteries being thrown at the same target, the penalty scales with sig radius etc...or something. The idea is several fold, one is to make an intermediate capital for small battles, talking from 15 - 15 to 30 - 30 to even some 50 - 50 engagements might see 2, 3 , 4 of these. Another is to diversify the capital enviroment. Right now you're looking at Dreads or Carriers - both massive steps into a highly specialized and difficult and long road. What if there were boats you could sit in with BS 5 and Adv. Spaceship 4? That didn't need seige mods? (Still looking at large turret 5 and BS 5). And another, is to put a new facet on the game. You go from battleships, designed to be solo, to Capitals, only good for gangs. Nothing in between. If this is becoming capital ships online we need something in the middle. Now mind you my ideas for specific ships usually suck, but we need something easier to attain with a more feasible, practical use for the little guy. - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica
vatasha'yar	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:26:00 - [2] /signed i like this idea.
Corwain Gallente Zero Team	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Corwain on 31/05/2007 02:27:05 OK, so you take this thing out solo and encounter a 5-6 BS gang. You put a battery on each BS and tank em all with your capital class tank. Sounds like it'd be too powerful solo to me. Only thing limiting it would be the jump drive. Oh, and where in star wars did they cloak a Star Destroyer please?
Stems Trade Consortium	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:28:00 - [4] Sounds interesting, though skill requirements for them would need to be specialized I would think.
ElCholo Minmatar FarCry Inc Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:28:00 - [5] Edited by: ElCholo on 31/05/2007 02:28:06 bah
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 31/05/2007 02:27:05 Oh, and where in star wars did they cloak a Star Destroyer please? No one was insane enough to try. In that universe cloaks were double blind. Screwed the ships sensors and those of the enemy. The best use of a cloaking device in that universe was in the last command. As for the other thing: Jumpdrive and the fact those BS could tank everything Second The Battery would not be able to focus fire. it would need to be locked think of a shotgun with stacking penalties. If the BS's could seriously tank then you basically have a stalemate till someone shows up or retreats.
Tempus Fugitive Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:49:00 - [7] Nice idea. I agree there should be an intermediate combat ship from bs to dread. Seems crazy to me that there's only one ship (that I know of - Freighters) that require AdvSC 1, but not AdvSC 5. That's a HUGE step. As for the mechanics of firing one weapon at multiple targets (which I think is what the OP was suggesting), that would be difficult, but doable. Let's say you have a laser battery that can fire at 3 targets. Each time the hot key for the weapon is pressed, the weapon either starts or stops firing depending on it's current state to that target. The graphical representation can be similar to the radial menu, when you mouse over the icon, 3 more pop up above it. This would imply that the battery couldn't actually direct all its firepower on one target, but that's not too far-fetched. Look at our ships now, for each turret we have a gun on each side and only one fires at a time. ---- And no I'm not an alt.
Ekscalybur	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 31/05/2007 02:27:05 OK, so you take this thing out solo and encounter a 5-6 BS gang. You put a battery on each BS and tank em all with your capital class tank. Sounds like it'd be too powerful solo to me. Only thing limiting it would be the jump drive. Oh, and where in star wars did they cloak a Star Destroyer please? If those battleship pilots lack enough chromosomes to even consider sitting still and allowing those 'batteries' to wail on them, they DESERVE to be killed by a single pilot. We're talking something close to the size of a dreadnaught, even a 3-4 month old character with the basic minimum of skills would be able to hit this boat with a really high transversal. Requiring jump drives for it to move around (though maybe making it very efficient at doing that so its really feasible to use this as a raider of sorts might be a good idea), and making it Ewar resistant (not immune, not even close) would balance a ship like this I would think. It'd be very easy to balance this boat so its not a solopwnmobile and still have it quite effective at the purpose the OP proposes. I think the OP has a great idea.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:52:00 - [9] ow yer lets just delete all players that is NOT in a cap ship :S thats a stupid overpowered ship... well then i vote for a t2 battleship with a basic of 99% res in all and a times 10 to all dmg, 10 hihg,mid,low slots, and shield regain on its 20k shield on 10 sec. yup that sounds fair;) i think balance would be the key... hehe:P ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
Red Crown Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:54:00 - [10] @ Above poster - no, the idea is that multiple batteries vs. one target is stacking nerfed except vs. capitals essentially. This would be tuned so that its not a solopwnmobile. 5 battleships could take this down if they were good, In an average enviroment 8 or so. Or something. - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica

Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:55:00 - [11] Edited by: Wrayeth on 31/05/2007 02:55:05 Originally by: Corwain Oh, and where in star wars did they cloak a Star Destroyer please? The Hand of Thrawn series, by Timothy Zahn; they didn't just cloak one star destroyer, they cloaked three of them. EDIT: Regarding the OP, a dread (juggernaut?) designed to engage and destroy BS and BC class vessels would be quite welcome. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:56:00 - [12] i think i brought this up once before, an idea for titans, instead of having the DD it would have a large number of guns, capable of pwning battleships. with more hp. this thing would have to get in the game to be useful.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2007.05.31 02:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Red Crown Whats the different between Eve and Star wars when it comes to capitals? Eve follows the more real battleship design - 3, 4 super-heavy barrel turrets while star wars has ships with 10s of what we might consider "Battleship/Large" sized guns. Real life battleship designs use large guns because the larger the gun, the longer the range (and the bigger the payload.) A "real life" version of star wars battleships w/ many guns would have the technology to aim all those turbo-lasers at a single point in space, so there wouldn't be a need for BFGs. The range on small or large lasers would be the same (unless you have focusing problems,) so a lot of little lasers give you the flexibility to engage small to large targets at all ranges (small lasers have better tracking,) with better coverage, all while having redundant weapons. Of course, in reality, capital ships in Star Wars mounted lots of little guns since the movies focused on heroes in fighters. Lots of little guns give us that 'hero fighter pilot braving lots of pretty glittering AA fire and flak as per WWII.' But yeah, Eve ship components are terribly unrealistic, and I would love to see some kind of 'weapon banks'. Or spinal mounts... Renegage Legion or Babylon 5 anyone?
Kredan Rasok	Posted - 2007.05.31 03:19:00 - [14] Sounds like a good idea.. These could be some sort of Strike Cruiser designed to attack battleships or defend seige/triage mode dreads and carriers. Perhpas give them only enough CPU and Power grid to fit the short range XL turrets (GigaPulse Laser, Ion Seige Cannon and 6x2500mm Autocannon) plus a somewhat effective tank.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:25:00 - [15] They should just introduce T2 battleships. There is no way they could be overpowered in the current age of capital ships, as long as they are not too fast, and they could fill the gap between battleships and carrier/dreadnaught quite well. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:42:00 - [16] Stupidly overpowered "solopwnmobile" idea. Anyone who didn't have one of these ships or a cap fleet of their own wouldn't be able to compete. God help anyone who would happen to run into a fleet of these things.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.05.31 08:48:00 - [17] Perhaps a capship hunter T2 bs? 8 weapon slots, huge damage bonus, huge tracking penalty. Or maybe a T2 bs with fairly average firepower etc, but it can fit some kind of capital warp or jump scrambler. Or perhaps just a new smaller class of capital. A gun-toting capital designed to be slightly more affordable and versatile than a dreadnought. Perhaps if it packs more guns (and sports slightly better tracking, to enable slightly more anti-smaller ship capability) but is unable to use siege mode. Might make for some interesting pew-pew by adding another step up in firepower.
Red Crown Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.05.31 14:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Red Crown on 31/05/2007 14:13:13 Originally by: Wild Rho Stupidly overpowered "solopwnmobile" idea. Anyone who didn't have one of these ships or a cap fleet of their own wouldn't be able to compete. God help anyone who would happen to run into a fleet of these things. My idea was - 1. Doesn't take quite as long as a capital to train, but takes a while 2. Costs as much as that fancy Vindicator you may/may not have 3. Its tank is tuned so that a dread can blast it away ( Not easily, it would be able to build up enough transversal to make it not a 1-shot thing ) 4. Its guns are tuned so that it can't solopwn because it has to select multiple targets (better fleet support and encourages the dis-use of "primaries" Edit: Battleship is to cruiser as Dreadnought is to This HP/tank wise. - "The Mains Created the alts They rebelled They look...and feel...human Some are programmed to think they are human There are many alts. And they have a plan." - Forumstar Galactica
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.06.01 07:53:00 - [19] Edited by: Wild Rho on 01/06/2007 07:53:24 Originally by: Red Crown My idea was - 1. Doesn't take quite as long as a capital to train, but takes a while Already been proven that training time is not a limiting factor, it's just a delaying factor. If a ship is powerful enough people will train for it. Originally by: Red Crown 2. Costs as much as that fancy Vindicator you may/may not have Again, with the capital fleets we're seeing these days cost is not a limiting factor but only a delaying factor, sooner or later you'd see fleets of these things everywhere. Originally by: Red Crown 3. Its tank is tuned so that a dread can blast it away ( Not easily, it would be able to build up enough transversal to make it not a 1-shot thing ) See my point about needing capitals to take these one. A roaming gang of these can't be stopped by any other ship class except the same - poorly balanced. Originally by: Red Crown 4. Its guns are tuned so that it can't solopwn because it has to select multiple targets (better fleet support and encourages the dis-use of "primaries" Adding a pointless mechanic that doesn't make sense purely for the purpose of not making this one ship class too effective. This ship idea doesn't really bring anything new to pvp but instead tries to usurp the roles of other ships as anti support for no real reason. Fine for star wars, not so fine for Eve.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.06.01 08:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Red Crown So, 5 Triple 800MM AutoCannon Battery I, Prototype cloak I, Warfare Link in highs. That in itself speaks volumes......

Kredan Rasok	Posted - 2007.06.01 10:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Red Crown 4. Its guns are tuned so that it can't solopwn because it has to select multiple targets (better fleet support and encourages the dis-use of "primaries" So the guns for this thing would kind of be more like a shotgun in effect?
redi mcanorlan Caldari Libertas de Dominatus	Posted - 2007.06.01 11:33:00 - [22] Being comparitively noobian to EVE, and not knowing the physics or technical side of things, it appears to me that the only real fight against capital-type ships is other big ships - now i figure the suggestion of single seater fighter type craft has been bought up by every noob who ever played the game, but the closest i've seen to a squadron of snub fighters is to loose off plenty of drones. One of the key factors of capital ships in the Star Wars universe was "TRS" or "Trench Run Syndrome". It refers to the fact that the biggest capital ships were incredibly powerful against mammoth ships, but weak against snubfighters which could easily out-maneuvre the weapons and, once in close, could do significant damage. If you introduce these massive ships without any form of obvious counter tactic other than big -v- bigger, then you will unbalance the field. If there was to be ships as you describe then it would need an equal and opposite to be introduced, or at least a countermeasure of some form, so it would be an ideal point to consider snubfighters maybe... who knows - anyways, i can't be here waffling, i have my noob badge to polish :) (ps - put me in my place if i'm wrong, i just didn't want to drag the thread off topic with snubfighters) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Chequrself Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.01 11:54:00 - [23] Edited by: Chequrself on 01/06/2007 11:54:35 Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 31/05/2007 02:27:05 Oh, and where in star wars did they cloak a Star Destroyer please? Episode V Empire Strikes Back, as the millenium falcon is attempting to escape capture, one of the fleet commanders say and I quote "a ship that small couldn't have a cloaking device" You lose ------------------------------------------------- http://razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50519 Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Jacob Holland Gallente FIRMA	Posted - 2007.06.01 11:59:00 - [24] Originally by: stoicfaux Of course, in reality, capital ships in Star Wars mounted lots of little guns since the movies focused on heroes in fighters. Lots of little guns give us that 'hero fighter pilot braving lots of pretty glittering AA fire and flak as per WWII.' To the point where Lucas even stole lines... The "How many guns do you think Red 2?" "Say about 20 guns..." exchange is lifted almost directly from The Dam Busters and there are others whose ancestry can be traced to other B&W WWII films. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.


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