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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.05.31 17:50:00 -
[1]
Probably this isn't the right forum to ask, but here there are lots of mission runners like me so why not? ;) We are like miners with minerals, with salvaging we have the "minerals" to build rigs and they sell well so do you think is a good idea to learn industry to 3 and production efficiency to 4 and start making rigs for yourself/to sell with the salvaged items instead of just sell the single salvaged components? Some rigs can be usefull in mission ship too.The only drawback I see is the salvaging time between missions, it takes as long as an half or 3/4 a lvl 3 or lvl2 mission so it's better salvage or do mission one after the other? What do you think?
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Kaylee Kaitlen
Gallente Lutin Group
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Posted - 2007.05.31 18:40:00 -
[2]
I looted/salvaged everything in level 1s and level 2s -- I made more money salvaging than anything (tbh, salvage prices were a lot higher then). Now that I'm running level 4s, I only salvage BS's and drones and I use salvaged items to create my own rigs for my mission/salvage ships (CCC, Drone Control Range Augmenter, Sentry Damage Augmentor, Core Defense Field Purger, Salvage Tackle). Since I'm not making any significant quantity of them, I don't bother with the production skills -- I only train up the skills required for the manufacture and no more.
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Egil Kolsto
Caldari Collwood Collective
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Posted - 2007.05.31 18:43:00 -
[3]
Personally, I do not salvage any more.
However, when I did I sold the parts as without perfect ME you end up loosing by building yourself. My benefit was also that the rig-seller would build for free if I provided the parts:)
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syphurous
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.31 22:22:00 -
[4]
I think most rig builders will generaly make you a rig for the parts that you would be required to use to make it yourself. Having Perfect ME on a rig BPO myself I'd willingly make that rig part for what the parts it would cost someone without a perfect ME BP. ______________________________
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Mika Minite
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Posted - 2007.05.31 22:38:00 -
[5]
I've been watching the rig market to try and make this decision for myself. Currently there's still a few million extra isk to be gained per rig by making them yourself....so long as you have a perfect ME blueprint and high production skills. This gap is narrowing though, and I imagine in a few months time the rig market will resemble the Tech I ship market, with slim margins for those with well research blueprints and good skills and everyone else better off selling the components.
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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.06.01 05:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mika Minite with slim margins for those with well research blueprints and good skills and everyone else better off selling the components.
Yes, I see right now, some rigs costs really a few busk more than raw materials. For sure, I never be a "builder", ut the idea of create something bymyself with salvaged items makes me like a mechanic-fighter :) but learning and developing production skills to reduce the raw materials can be pro*****ble. Leraning industry,production efficiency,jury rigging, armour rigging and even metallurgy to a base level is only 2-3 days, so why not? I should figure out if I will salvage in lvl3 and 4 missions as someone said...
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Krytie
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Posted - 2007.06.01 07:54:00 -
[7]
I have found that I have saved a ton on building my own rigs. So, I salvage everything. I do fly the myr and am a droner, so I usually carry 1 salvager and 1 tractor in my top slots. I end up sitting and guiding the drones mostly, so as I wait for them, I concentrate on looting and salvaging the close stuff and this my 'after looting' has alot less to do.
But, I always save the aprts and make my own rigs. The rigs help ALOT for the ships and definately worth the extra time to salvage in my opinion.
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:20:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Elspeth Vigneron on 01/06/2007 12:20:32
Originally by: Angmar Da'Kirith Probably this isn't the right forum to ask, but here there are lots of mission runners like me so why not? ;) We are like miners with minerals, with salvaging we have the "minerals" to build rigs and they sell well so do you think is a good idea to learn industry to 3 and production efficiency to 4 and start making rigs for yourself/to sell with the salvaged items instead of just sell the single salvaged components? Some rigs can be usefull in mission ship too.The only drawback I see is the salvaging time between missions, it takes as long as an half or 3/4 a lvl 3 or lvl2 mission so it's better salvage or do mission one after the other? What do you think?
Yes. Because after a few of the right missions, I might have enough parts to build 100 million isk in rigs.
For example, I had my CEO build me two CCC's and I'm getting ready to ask her to build me some auxiliary nano pumps. With her perfect manufacturing skills, the material cost was significantly less than without them. For example, it takes just 20 Melted Capacitors to build a CCC when you've got the skills. And when you don't, like me, you're looking at 25+ or so. Essentially, you're getting 5 rigs for the price of 4. Which means another 20% in revenue from the same materials.
Now, of course, if your CEO or production person has perfect manufacturing, then maybe you're not so interested in learning the skills yourself. Which is perfectly valid. But in the long run, the skills are quite useful to put extra isk in your pocket. And, once you can "AFK" level IV's, you can probably afford to put some time into industry.
Phoenix Logistics Industries |
JagGator
United Freeloaders
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Posted - 2007.06.01 16:44:00 -
[9]
Currently rig manufacturing is not affected by your Production Efficiency skill at all. You will use the same amount of materials with PE0 as you would with PE5.
Note that the blueprint reports that you will need more materials depending on your Production Efficiency skill, but when you actually go to produce the print it will report (and use) the minimum amount of materials solely determined by your print's ME research level.
It is unclear whether this is a bug or not. Someone suggested that this was intentional since you cannot refine a rig back into its base components. This makes a certain kind of sense to me...
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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.06.01 17:56:00 -
[10]
I made some market research about this idea to build rigs with salvaged items with medium production skills (PE 3) and some blueprint research. Well, I think the market is crazy about rigs!! I mean, selling the salvage items or build the rigs perfect is 200K on average of profit (T1 rigs and the most wanted like CCC , nano pump etc.) , so even with a blueprint of ME over 20 and PE 5 for a mission salvager is better to buy rigs/sell salvaged items instead of build...it seems really strange to me! Why people made buy orders so high and sell so low? Too many competitors? I don't know. The skill efforts doing it isn't so high in time and money to train, but with the current queues on research and build the things aren't so sexy. I don't have data about selling researched blueprint copies (a possible side income) of simple T1 rigs. I think the real advantage is for corp and for the corpmates that can have someone who builds for them at base raw materials, but invest in medium production skills seems not so good idea :(
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: JagGator Currently rig manufacturing is not affected by your Production Efficiency skill at all. You will use the same amount of materials with PE0 as you would with PE5.
Note that the blueprint reports that you will need more materials depending on your Production Efficiency skill, but when you actually go to produce the print it will report (and use) the minimum amount of materials solely determined by your print's ME research level.
It is unclear whether this is a bug or not. Someone suggested that this was intentional since you cannot refine a rig back into its base components. This makes a certain kind of sense to me...
That's good to know. Because I read the BPO and it says I need "X." I ask my CEO and she says somewhere along the lines of 80% of "X."
The irony is, she has perfect refine and mfg so she wouldn't actually know... She has no way to spot the bug...
Phoenix Logistics Industries |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:59:00 -
[12]
Another point worth mentioning; if you have a researched rig BPO you can make some money on the side by buying other people's parts and reselling the rigs.
At the moment, there is decent money in it - maybe 20% profit, on large amounts at once. Of course, you need production efficiency 5 for this, or maybe an industrial alt with the skill - but don't forget you need rig fitting skills to make the things, as well. And of course trade skills help too. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.06.03 15:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: vanBuskirk
At the moment, there is decent money in it - maybe 20% profit, on large amounts at once.
Well for what I saw, this kind of margin is only in some side markets, if you go to jita or ours (the one I checked) you can have those rigs for much less and slight over the buying cost of the raw materials. Since I am not a trader/builder for profession, I don't bother to fly to other region to sell rigs, instead It seems to me that buy the rigs if I need them or sell the salvaged item of my missions is the same thing (always from a missioner point of view) ------------------------------------ NO ALT USER: if buy ISK for real money is so bad, why allow people work with 2+ accounts together to make ISK faster than normal user? |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.03 16:34:00 -
[14]
Angmar, you might be right in Jita - but I am making the things, as well as buying them, in a main level 4 mission-runner hotspot at the moment. Volume is low-ish, because of parts availability, but it's a sideline anyway! And I don't have to go anywhere to sell them, which is a plus.
Just about anything sells well in mission bases; however, stuff like ammo can be very competitive. Rigs aren't - yet. When the profit gets too slim, I'll be out of that business! As the cost of BP plus the research was only about 300k, that's been made back a hundred times over already.
I would also like to add that the only thing I've had to buy so far is melted capacitor consoles - all the rest I have piles of from my own missions. So my cashflow is even better than the calculated profit would indicate. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.06.03 17:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: vanBuskirk As the cost of BP plus the research was only about 300k, that's been made back a hundred times over already
Have you got some Material Research on blueprints or have some points in Product Efficiency or just buy some BPC? ------------------------------------ NO ALT USER: if buy ISK for real money is so bad, why allow people work with 2+ accounts together to make ISK faster than normal user? |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.03 22:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Angmar Da'Kirith
Originally by: vanBuskirk As the cost of BP plus the research was only about 300k, that's been made back a hundred times over already
Have you got some Material Research on blueprints or have some points in Product Efficiency or just buy some BPC?
ME15 on a BPO, plus Production Efficiency 5 skill. The only snags are that you need PE5 and the 3-week wait for a ME slot. PE on the blueprint is irrelevant - you most likely won't be making enough of them for the time saving to matter. Rigs are a very low volume seller, but if you can stick them on a sell order and forget it...
You don't need very high ME on a rig BP, as the number of units of their ingredients is so small.
I hear that your production efficiency skill doesn't matter for making rigs, but if so it's probably a bug - don't count on it staying that way.
---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.04 20:24:00 -
[17]
PE only shortens the time required for manufacture. If you are only making two or three at a time, it doesn't amount to much anyway. When you are talking 17 million plus for a rig, who cares about a couple of hundred isk for the extra time? Only a high volume producer would need to worry about it.
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Talkie Toaster
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.05 13:46:00 -
[18]
i loot and salvage all my lvl 4s. you can make a nice little fund in rigs alone. before you know it you have enough parts for acouple of CCCs, a couple of salvage tackls, maybe a defence field purger and who knows what else. just started some research on my CCC BPO and am just getting into manufacturing. since i loot and salvage everything it mad ea lot of sence. Also form all the loot i can reporocess i can make enough missiles to last me a few weeks from just 4 or 5 missions probably.
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Tirk Umpat
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Posted - 2007.06.05 23:55:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tirk Umpat on 05/06/2007 23:54:35 Link to site that lists perfect ME for T1 rigs (ME 15 isn't perfect for all of them):
http://eve.podzone.net/wsdb/?op=rig_builder&ml=1
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Talkie Toaster
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.06 14:03:00 -
[20]
yeh i use that site a lot. also let our other corp meners know to avoid any more 200 ME CCC BPs lol
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Egil Kolsto
Caldari Collwood Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.06 14:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: syphurous I think most rig builders will generaly make you a rig for the parts that you would be required to use to make it yourself. Having Perfect ME on a rig BPO myself I'd willingly make that rig part for what the parts it would cost someone without a perfect ME BP.
Hehe, yeah I bet they would. At the current prices that is quite a decent profit. Luckily my friend makes them really for free. He halts his mega-production line long enough to crank out a rig or two for me. That said, I miss the days when I could just ask in local any there were 4-5 people salvaging so the wrecks after my mission didn't go to "waste"
Maybe the new batch of new players from the advertisement will once again make salvagers!
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