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Tillakna
Gallente
Armoured Assassins
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Posted - 2007.06.02 10:11:00 -
[1]
I maxed out learning at 5.376.000, SP, but I see from the ineve site, that there are people with 5,586,745m sp in learning. How the hell did they do that ?
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I am legion, for we are many. |
CptEagle
Gallente
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 14:59:00 -
[2]
If you goto settings tab in you're character sheet, you can toggle "Show all skills", then you will be able to see what skill you might be missing in the Skills tab.
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Scraqp
Advocates
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Posted - 2007.06.02 15:06:00 -
[3]
unlikely he missed anything, since its only 200k difference.
very weird stuff...
curious about that too
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Dragon Lord
Caldari
research inc
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Posted - 2007.06.02 17:09:00 -
[4]
very odd i also have maxed learmimg skills and have the same sp in it as u, was somthing removed a few years back that this guy trained and we didnt?
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Ertine Laximous
Gallente
EVE Liberation Army
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Posted - 2007.06.02 17:20:00 -
[5]
It was a bug in the early days of eve, allowed you to "overtrain" skills
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Xedrik
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:43:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ertine Laximous
It was a bug in the early days of eve, allowed you to "overtrain" skills
So basically, the guys at ineve with more sp than maximum allowed is kinda cheating? =P
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.03 14:13:00 -
[7]
ôSo basically, the guys at ineve with more sp than maximum allowed is kinda cheating? =Pö
It wasnÆt a bug it was a feature so they where not cheating. The idea was when you did an action you got a small amount of skillpoints. Turn on afterburner you got afterburner skillpoints e.c.t Certain people abused this by constantly fitting and unfitting stuff along with just sitting there clicking things on and off so it was taken out. But anyone with a small amount of skillpoints wasnÆt cheating.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
RaTTuS
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.04 14:49:00 -
[8]
Occasionally [though lag mostly] you could get a skill to train beyond the end of it's level 5 value, this has no effect on anything apart from the skills points.
In the early days of eve some skills coule be trained by using modules [gunnery would go up if firing guns etc] - this was stopped not that long after launch because of abuse - [that would not of driven any thing past level 5]
Only whole levels count for cacluations though.
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & Blog
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Chelone
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Posted - 2007.06.05 20:41:00 -
[9]
The real question is why you trained Presence 5.
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Hakar Kerarmor
Gallente
Arctic Productions
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Posted - 2007.06.06 19:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Chelone
The real question is why you trained Presence 5.
He must have slipped.
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the xMadx
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Posted - 2007.06.07 04:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: the xMadx on 07/06/2007 04:27:36
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.06.07 06:29:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mr Friendly on 07/06/2007 06:30:09
Originally by: Pottsey
ôSo basically, the guys at ineve with more sp than maximum allowed is kinda cheating? =Pö
It wasnÆt a bug it was a feature so they where not cheating. The idea was when you did an action you got a small amount of skillpoints. Turn on afterburner you got afterburner skillpoints e.c.t Certain people abused this by constantly fitting and unfitting stuff along with just sitting there clicking things on and off so it was taken out. But anyone with a small amount of skillpoints wasnÆt cheating.
Bah, sounds like an advantage that only the older players have access to... that positively *reeks* of collusion between CCP and the older players. I demand a server reset, firing of all involved Dev's and mass banning of all involved players! Christ on a crutch, that's tantamount to ... err.... not sure exactly.
Seriously though, does that actually confer any benefits? I'm not complaining or casting aspersions on anyone, I'm just interested if i.e. an AB skill to 5.015 (let's say) helps a *little teensy bit more* than AB to 5 in Eve's current skill calculation system, or is 5 the top end, with >5 being treated AS 5 by the server? From what I can tell, Eve DOES use a non-whole number system when it confers/calculates skill benefits, so I'm not sure Rattus' assertion is correct.
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RaTTuS
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.07 06:39:00 -
[13]
the effects of skills are whole number things,
i.e. level 4 is the same as level 4.5 or 4.999999 but level 5 gives you that jump.
Skills like learning which have a fractional effect still only work on who numbers of Skill levels .. IYSWIM
learning can make your Attributes be partial whole numbers and those partial numbers are used in skill time cacluations.
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & Blog
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:47:00 -
[14]
ôThe real question is why you trained Presence 5.ö
Its one of the best attributes out there for some. It was one of the first I got to adv5 along with +5 charisma implants and high base charisma. My current charisma is 25 and I wouldnt want to lower it for any other attribute.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
JenDen
Caldari
LFS Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: RaTTuS
the effects of skills are whole number things,
i.e. level 4 is the same as level 4.5 or 4.999999 but level 5 gives you that jump.
Skills like learning which have a fractional effect still only work on who numbers of Skill levels .. IYSWIM
learning can make your Attributes be partial whole numbers and those partial numbers are used in skill time cacluations.
Didnt quite get your confusing post, but fraction part DOES count for skill time calculation. i.e. level 4 is NOT the same as level 4.5 or 4.999999 but level 5 is almost the same as 4.9 (can't get this numbers anyways, just using your same example)
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Chelone
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Posted - 2007.06.08 23:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôThe real question is why you trained Presence 5.ö
Its one of the best attributes out there for some. It was one of the first I got to adv5
Oh, the wasted training...
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Fallorn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.10 21:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: Pottsey
ôThe real question is why you trained Presence 5.ö
Its one of the best attributes out there for some. It was one of the first I got to adv5
Oh, the wasted training...
So so true. Really I couldn't imagine training the advanced skills to 5 it's easier just to get implants. Also who wants charisma really.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.11 16:15:00 -
[18]
ôOh, the wasted training...ö
I am a leadership gang assist pilot which has Charisma as the primary attribute. Its hardly wasted it saved me days if not weeks and I have 10mill+ of Charisma skills now.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Chelone
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Posted - 2007.06.12 03:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôOh, the wasted training...ö
I am a leadership gang assist pilot which has Charisma as the primary attribute. Its hardly wasted it saved me days if not weeks and I have 10mill+ of Charisma skills now.
Well that's called being specialized, and your high charisma comes at the cost of other stats, but let's say you have 10M of charisma-primary skills. You get what, around 1.5M SP per month? So 10M Charisma-primary SP represents 6 2/3 months of Charisma-primary training. You need to almost double that to start seeing a benefit from Presence 5.  (Good luck, I hope it pays off lol!)
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Angus McDorble
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.12 04:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Chelone
The real question is why you trained Presence 5.
I keep wondering why I trained Presence 3. 
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Sorry I stunk up the factory.
Oh snap, I gots censored! |
Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.12 06:14:00 -
[21]
ôYou need to almost double that to start seeing a benefit from Presence 5. (Good luck, I hope it pays off lol!)ö
Your wrong as the skills paied off and was a benefit after 1 day. Due to adv5 I have more useful skills points then if I had adv4.
ôand your high charisma comes at the cost of other statsö
No it doesnÆt. All my attributes are around 25 give or take a little
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Chelone
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Posted - 2007.06.12 17:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Pottsey
Your wrong as the skills paied off and was a benefit after 1 day. Due to adv5 I have more useful skills points then if I had adv4.
How delusional. Your ~12 day skill wasn't a benefit after 1 day. I suspect that you yourself even know that, but you simply choose to live in your own fantasy.
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Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.12 18:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Fallorn
So so true. Really I couldn't imagine training the advanced skills to 5 it's easier just to get implants. Also who wants charisma really.
Just about anyone who wants to train all those rather expensive skills - 15K LPs and 10M iskies surely you know them, they give up to 50% hike in LPs? Surely a must for those desperate souls LP farming to get their sweaty palm on a CNR and other faction BS? I couldn't imagine waiting for the offer - it's easier to simply buy the darn boat... 
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Pottsey's Clone
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Posted - 2007.06.12 20:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Pottsey''s Clone on 12/06/2007 20:45:32
ôHow delusional. Your ~12 day skill wasn't a benefit after 1 day. I suspect that you yourself even know that, but you simply choose to live in your own fantasy.ö
Yes it was a benefit after 1 day. For example Siege Warfare Specialist lvl1 took me 34 mins with adv5. With adv4 it would have taken 36mins so 1 hour into training the new skill I was ahead due to adv5. Benefit shorter then 1 day. This only applies to new skills that come out after you get adv5 or you cannot afford before getting to adv5. If you could have trained the skill instead of getting adv5 then I agree with you.
Fast forward 24days 20hours and I have done the skill to level 5. With adv4 I still have another 2 days to go. In this case I couldnÆt train Siege Warfare Specialist instead of adv5 as it wasnÆt out
So in 24days I am 2days head in useful skill points over having adv4 and pulling ahead more. Yet you say adv5 wasnt a benefit!
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Chelone
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Posted - 2007.06.12 21:06:00 -
[25]
So for 2 minutes of your entire Eve experience, from start to doomsday, you had Siege Warfare Specialist L1 sooner. Every instant before that, and every instant AFTER that, you gained nothing in terms of that skill. How exciting! If you feel foregoing 12+ days (60+ days for all five Adv.5) of "existing, worthless" skills is entirely compensated by having "new, exciting" skills 5% faster, that's your business. However, no matter how much some veteran players say otherwise, I have a hard time believing there were really NO other existing skills they could have put to good use, rather than spending over 2 months on Advanced 5 just to get new skills 5% faster. And even if there are a few veterans who may have been in that situation, for almost ALL of the playerbase, it is simply not the case.
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.13 04:27:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Yes it was a benefit after 1 day. For example Siege Warfare Specialist lvl1 took me 34 mins with adv5. With adv4 it would have taken 36mins so 1 hour into training the new skill I was ahead due to adv5.
No, with adv5 it took 12 days and 34 minutes.
With adv4 it took 36 minutes.
You're not ahead.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.13 06:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Pottsey on 13/06/2007 06:37:54
ôNo, with adv5 it took 12 days and 34 minutes.
With adv4 it took 36 minutes.
You're not ahead.ö
Your wrong with adv 4 took 12 days 36mins. I guess you didnÆt read or understand the rest of my post or I didnt explain it well enough.
ôSo for 2 minutes of your entire Eve experience, from start to doomsday, you had Siege Warfare Specialist L1 sooner.ö
For 9ish days I had access to mindlink implants which you can only get with lvl5 while with lvl 4 I would still be training. Those 9days where also spent training other new useful skills that came out after I got adv5 like clone jumping, resistance boosts to passive hardeners, hacking e.c.t.
ôHow exciting! If you feel foregoing 12+ days (60+ days for all five Adv.5) of "existing, worthless" skills is entirely compensated by having "new, exciting" skills 5% faster, that's your business.ö
It sure was in my case I forgo 1 useless skill to lvl 5 and spent 12days getting adv5 then I learnt 30 if not 50+ new skills faster that where not out before I got adv5.
ôHowever, no matter how much some veteran players say otherwise, I have a hard time believing there were really NO other existing skills they could have put to good use,ö
I started off as a miner and cargo pilot with every single skill maxed. There where less then 100skills back then. As I had everything maxed with level 5 I went onto adv5. None combat players can max out pretty fast. Back then Drone pilots had only a few million skillpoints same for miners and cargo pilots.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Sid Gama
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Posted - 2007.06.13 23:58:00 -
[28]
So what i get from all of this from a new character prespective (under 3 mil sp) Unless your a vetern dont train learning to ADV5
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Jeran Tek
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Posted - 2007.06.14 01:35:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jeran Tek on 14/06/2007 01:35:25
It's a numbers game.
Training learning skills increases the rate you learn other skills at and nothing else.
You can easily see the benefit moving from no learning to a reasonable amount of learning.
The question is when do you stop and you have to repeat that question at each level of each skill.
Moving from advanced 4 to advanced 5 takes around 14 days. Let's call it that for simplicity.
It improves your learning of skills that use that attribute by about 3% For the 14 days to have been worthwhile you need to save more than 14 days worth of training time as a result of the skill. 14days divided by 3% is roughly 460 days. 460 days of training skills that use the trained attribute as primary or 900 of skills that use it as secondary. So it will be a year at least before you start to be ahead of others who did not train level 5 in that attribute.
In my personal case I went to Basic 5 / Advanced 4 reasonably early in my career. I planned to be here quite a while.
About 6 months into the game I realised I was going to be here much longer than a year and played with EVEMON with some outrageous plans to see what skills would give a benefit after years of reasonable skill training schedules.
The only one that makes sense for me is Clarity 5. So I did that. The earlier you train a learning skill that you are going to use the sooner you get the benefit of it.
Now I've been playing for almost a year. I'm almost at the point where I have more useful skillpoints than the people who only trained Basic 5 / Advanced 3 at the same time as I did.
In another 6-9 months depending on the skills I train in that time, I'll start to have more useful points than the people who stopped at Advanced 4.
I'll never have fewer useful points for my playtime than the people who trained everything to Advanced 5. That's not quite true. According to EVEMONs calculations if I train to use every ship and module currently in the game, and get every skill up to level 3 as a minimum (remembering that will leave most skills at level 5 anyway) it will be worthwhile me learning Focus 5. At the end of the 5 years it will take me to get to that point I will be 2 days worth of training ahead of myself if I had not taken the time out to do that skill level.
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Pottsey
Gallente
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.16 15:03:00 -
[30]
ôSo what i get from all of this from a new character prespective (under 3 mil sp) Unless your a vetern dont train learning to ADV5ö
ThatÆs correct apart from one expectation. If a new add-on pack is due soon and you want to learn one of the new skills/professions. It can be worth getting adv5 before the add-on pack hits then spending the new year on those new skills. But for the most part new players are better of with adv5.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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