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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.06.02 13:03:00 -
[1]
Hehe
Yes, the reason for you guys at CCP to not have faster skill training on sisi, still eludes me. The only responses I've seen from the CCP people are: 'no, never, not in a million years!!!'.
But nobody has said why?
Then the other day, we all suddenly got level 5 in all of the new skills (bomb deployment, thermodynamics etc). And while this is all nice at some point, that means that the things wont be tested wont be tested at level 1 - 4. It seems strange to me that you didn't give the pre-reqs to the skills instead and then the skill at level 0. And then when people needed it give them level 4 or 5 to test those.
Now my proposal for this is:
- Keep the skill training formula and UI as it is now, including the train skill and abort training right-click menu.
- On SISI give users the ability to click the skill level bar on the character sheet to set the skill to that level. (ie. ability to both go forward and backwards in skills).
The following replies will be ignored:
- Then everybody will fly titans and motherships: Well those aren't seeded, so they'll have to build them and we all know how 'easy' that is.
- Skill training needs testing too: It has been tested for 4+ years now. It is done(tm). Also the old training method is still there, so have fun continue testing it.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.06.02 15:10:00 -
[2]
If CCP wants to implement a system for changing skills on Sisi, it should be a simple slash-command. This would require nearly no programming effort and it would be easy to avoid it being leaked to TQ.
It would help testing several things very much, but I donŠt think that CCP really wants us to test anything. They are apparently mostly interested in load on Sisi.
Example:
/changeskilllvl thermodynamics 4
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Arcadia1701
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.02 15:28:00 -
[3]
sigh, thread 430434934 about this. I still say changeing +4s to be +10s would be a better idea.
My sig>
Post with your main, or don't post at all. |
Neslo
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.02 16:05:00 -
[4]
Public Testing on SiSi allows folks not in the "private" testing groups (that have the pre-requisite skills) a chance to see what the private testers are doing. If you are in the private test groups, you have been given the skill bumps to test those devices (IE your char on SISI gets an instant level 5 to the testing groups).
Now when the testing goes public, you get Level 5 in those areas. Yes this means you don't gett to see an incrimental change. But if you want to be part of the private testing groups apply to be a BH. Until then wait for a public test or a release on TQ. missles were done this way, command skills were done this way... etc etc.
Sisi isn't meant as an escape from TQ, so there is no reason to make it uberrific skill training times. It's meant as a Testing ground for the Bug Hunters and Developers.
Again, if you want the skills neccessary, get in on the testing teams. If you want to be on the testing teams apply to be a BH when Hammer calls for them. Until then... public test what you can.
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust.... |
MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.02 16:09:00 -
[5]
plus buy thge best implant for free!
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:44:00 -
[6]
I get your points, but I also think that a lot more scenarios could be tested if you could switch skill levels easily.
Ex. currently I'm testing invention. However my invention related skills are higher on TQ than on SISI. So after the mirror next weekend, I can't go back in the skill levels. (well not unless I want to play the death-clone lottery)
Now in this particular case, I might be able to pull of the testing that needs to be done with my current SISI skilllevels. But it is going to be a very close one. Anyway, switching the skills would make such headaches go away.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
TheFirstInquisitor
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Posted - 2007.06.03 00:46:00 -
[7]
I hear you.
I am trying to get my corp into Dreadnaughts so as to test these babies out and various strategies for deployment. Yes, I am a noob in capital ships, ergo i dont know either way what they are like, ergo the testing.
That as a reason, it will take aprox 4~5M SP per person to get up to capitals....
Because I understtand this i concur, we should get +1000 implants (hey, devs have the Jovian ships, not as if those things already on TQ are going to leak onto mainstream EVE) to speed this up.
Until god gets over here and says otherwise, I am the defacto ruler of the univere.
Free Dolphin burgers for all! |
MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.03 02:03:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Chruker
I get your points, but I also think that a lot more scenarios could be tested if you could switch skill levels easily.
Ex. currently I'm testing invention. However my invention related skills are higher on TQ than on SISI. So after the mirror next weekend, I can't go back in the skill levels. (well not unless I want to play the death-clone lottery)
Now in this particular case, I might be able to pull of the testing that needs to be done with my current SISI skilllevels. But it is going to be a very close one. Anyway, switching the skills would make such headaches go away.
so you mean... let the player also get rid of skill points??
oh and like I said buy all +5/6 implants and train faster.
if that's possible
also... if you bughunt and report the best bug report of the month they will max out your skills on sisi
that should make you happy :L) :)
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate
Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.03 04:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MotherMoon
so you mean... let the player also get rid of skill points??
oh and like I said buy all +5/6 implants and train faster.
if that's possible
also... if you bughunt and report the best bug report of the month they will max out your skills on sisi
that should make you happy :L) :)
Testing bonuses and actions (manufacturing, research, etc) with different skill levels is important. A person who is genuinely testing would do this. A person who is just trying to get an edge over TQ or is looking for an eve sandbox will only want more SP.
Sales: Capital Ships | Covetors Delivered - Bulk/Package/BYOM |
Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.03 10:19:00 -
[10]
SISI is NOT for personal/private testing. If a skill is required to test something CCP wants us to test, it will be given.
______
Originally by: Vyger
If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner? 
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Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.03 10:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Helison
If CCP wants to implement a system for changing skills on Sisi, it should be a simple slash-command. This would require nearly no programming effort and it would be easy to avoid it being leaked to TQ.
It would help testing several things very much, but I donŠt think that CCP really wants us to test anything. They are apparently mostly interested in load on Sisi.
Example:
/changeskilllvl thermodynamics 4
The danger of putting any way for players to increase their skills (be it set them or train faster) is that there is always a risk of them leaking to TQ. All it takes is for someone to forget to comment out the appropriate line in the code and.... well you imagine the consquences. It's far safer (and better) to leave SISI running the same code as is expected to be ported over to TQ.
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Valandril
Caldari
Leela's Lamas
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Posted - 2007.06.03 10:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Erfnam
Testing bonuses and actions (manufacturing, research, etc) with different skill levels is important. A person who is genuinely testing would do this. A person who is just trying to get an edge over TQ or is looking for an eve sandbox will only want more SP.
This quote should be sticked.
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I swear to god, ccp choose changes in game via lottery system. |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.06.03 11:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ehrine Ashbark
Originally by: Helison
If CCP wants to implement a system for changing skills on Sisi, it should be a simple slash-command. This would require nearly no programming effort and it would be easy to avoid it being leaked to TQ.
It would help testing several things very much, but I donŠt think that CCP really wants us to test anything. They are apparently mostly interested in load on Sisi.
Example:
/changeskilllvl thermodynamics 4
The danger of putting any way for players to increase their skills (be it set them or train faster) is that there is always a risk of them leaking to TQ. All it takes is for someone to forget to comment out the appropriate line in the code and.... well you imagine the consquences. It's far safer (and better) to leave SISI running the same code as is expected to be ported over to TQ.
Well, if that is how it is implemented then CCP should fire that programmer.
First of all. This kind of thing should of cause be logged. That part shouldn't be too hard since there already is a skill training history.
Second of all. Any code like this should be enclosed so it is only included in the test builds.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: MotherMoon
so you mean... let the player also get rid of skill points??
Yes. Would be usefull for testing. Note when I say testing I mean testing the game client, code and basic functionalty.
Testing ship setups is done in FD-MLJ :-)
Originally by: MotherMoon
oh and like I said buy all +5/6 implants and train faster.
if that's possible
Already doing that. Well +4, but still.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
|
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Erfnam
Testing bonuses and actions (manufacturing, research, etc) with different skill levels is important. A person who is genuinely testing would do this. [snip]
Exactly :-)
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.04 01:57:00 -
[16]
What don't you people understand??
SISI is NOT a server for personal testing... It was created for PUBLIC TESTING OF WHAT CCP WANTS US TO TEST.
Stop clouding the forums with those idiotic demands.
______
Originally by: Vyger
If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
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B Glorious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.04 02:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Icome4u
What don't you people understand??
SISI is NOT a server for personal testing... It was created for PUBLIC TESTING OF WHAT CCP WANTS US TO TEST.
Stop clouding the forums with those idiotic demands.
There was a problem a while ago where Capital Ship Assembly Arrays were bugged because nobody tested them on the test server.
Are you saying we should have to train up all of the capital construction and anchoring skills on TQ just so we can do bugtesting on something that'll get wiped in another mirror a couple months later?
And if its not for personal testing, why is there fight club in FD-MLJ? Testing a setup? How is that not "personal testing"? |
Spei Prodetor
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Posted - 2007.06.04 02:22:00 -
[18]
the reason they dont allow it on sisi is cus sisi runs on the exact same code as tq will be seeing so doing so would directly effect tq in that it may cause bugs to be un-noticed or various other side effects... basicly in the end they stated: Because they would have to write and test 2 dif versions of the exact same patch so that TQ would not have rapid training times and quite frankly it would cause too many issues / possible issues......
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.06.04 02:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Icome4u
What don't you people understand??
SISI is NOT a server for personal testing... It was created for PUBLIC TESTING OF WHAT CCP WANTS US TO TEST.
Stop clouding the forums with those idiotic demands.
Try and read the thread, wont you? Instead of going nuts.
I would hardly call it personal testing to be able to better test the game using as many test scenarios as possible. And since skills are such a big part of the game, something more flexible than normal is needed.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
|
Posted - 2007.06.04 03:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Spei Prodetor
the reason they dont allow it on sisi is cus sisi runs on the exact same code as tq will be seeing so doing so would directly effect tq in that it may cause bugs to be un-noticed or various other side effects... basicly in the end they stated: Because they would have to write and test 2 dif versions of the exact same patch so that TQ would not have rapid training times and quite frankly it would cause too many issues / possible issues......
That is a lame excuse.
You add a flag to the servers configuration which controls whether it allows skill level changing or not. Then you add code to the appropriate sections and make sure it is only run when the flag is set correctly. Now put it on the internal test server. Try the skill changing. Toggle the flag. Try it again.
Just take a look at like the game code for the Quake engine. There are a large amounts of code that only gets run when certain settings are active on the server. Settings which alter the way the game behaves immensely.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.06.04 03:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ehrine Ashbark
Originally by: Helison
If CCP wants to implement a system for changing skills on Sisi, it should be a simple slash-command. This would require nearly no programming effort and it would be easy to avoid it being leaked to TQ.
It would help testing several things very much, but I donŠt think that CCP really wants us to test anything. They are apparently mostly interested in load on Sisi.
Example:
/changeskilllvl thermodynamics 4
The danger of putting any way for players to increase their skills (be it set them or train faster) is that there is always a risk of them leaking to TQ. All it takes is for someone to forget to comment out the appropriate line in the code and.... well you imagine the consquences. It's far safer (and better) to leave SISI running the same code as is expected to be ported over to TQ.
Like I said in the previous post. Anything like this should never be implemented like that with code that needs to be commented out.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
- Updated data export
- Speedup IGB table rendering |
Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.06.04 03:21:00 -
[22]
I think that skill training should stay the same on SiSi as on TQ. The server isn't there for people to train the biggest ship they can and screw around it's there for testing. We need to test at all levels so the low SP people need to be kept that way.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2007.06.04 06:08:00 -
[23]
#define LEVEL_SLOW 1
#define LEVEL_FAST 100
if (GetServerConfig() != SERVER_CONFIG_TRANQUILITY)
{
bEnableFastLeveling = TRUE;
}
else
bEnableFastLeveling = FALSE;
uint SkillPointWrapper()
{
int nMultiplier;
if (bEnableFastLeveling)
{
nMultiplier = LEVEL_FAST;
}
else
{
nMultiplier = LEVEL_SLOW;
}
return OldFormula(nMultiplier);
}
And if there's "danger of sisi code leaking onto tranquility", then it's time to review internal code management protocols. It's a flimsy reason not to do it.
The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Killmails are for pooftas. |
Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.04 08:11:00 -
[24]
Meh you people are hopeless
______
Originally by: Vyger
If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.04 11:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/06/2007 11:23:30
Originally by: Icome4u
What don't you people understand??
SISI is NOT a server for personal testing... It was created for PUBLIC TESTING OF WHAT CCP WANTS US TO TEST.
Oh, really ?
Quote:
[...]
the test server where players can experiment with new features and changes without risking loss or changes to their favorite characters on the live server.
[...]
Playing on the [...] test server is completely voluntary. Many subscribers enjoy having the opportunity to explore changes or features that are in development before they are introduced on the live server. This helps them to understand how things that will be implemented may affect their characters.
Sure, it's an old FAQ, but that's exactly the point.
The testserver was created BOTH to let people test stuff that needs testing AND to allow people to play around with stuff without risking their TQ assets.
Before you make a fool out of yourself by claiming something, you should at least try to find references to support your claims.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
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