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logistics V for triage mode

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Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.06.03 22:46:00 - [1] It says logistics V in the requirements window now, although it still works with logistics skill @ lvl 4, so if this is just a typo, disregard the rest. However if logistics V (a rank 6 skill) is intended as requirement now, I have too say that this is simply too much for a tool whichs usefulness is so highly situational as the triage mod. Why situational? Well, you lose all dps (and even the fighters if they were out already), you are a sitting duck as you cant move for 10mins and you cant receive remote repping from anyone else. Yet again it is meant as a class defining ability for carriers, which is another point against this harsh skill requirement, we have enough sp sinks in capital training already, we dont need another one. So please keep the requirement at logistics IV. PS: If you intend carriers to fit a triage mode as standard so they can do their job maybe they could use another high slot ?
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.06.03 23:27:00 - [2] Agreed logistics 5 is too much, it allready takes a very long time to train to use a carrier properley, adding anouther month just for triage mode is excessive. Also agreed that carriers now need some highslot love. -
B Glorious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.04 00:02:00 - [3] I wouldn't be opposed to reducing the skill prerequisite down to logistics IV, though I think calling it "sitting duck" mode is a little unfair. Also somewhat relevant is that I think it'd be nice if Jump Drive Calibration and Jump Fuel Conservation only required Jump Drive Operation IV instead of V, but god forbid someone might have one less skill they're obligated to train.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.04 01:52:00 - [4] /Signed Also fighters need some love and carriers need another high slot now... TY :) ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
xphreakx Caldari Colony.	Posted - 2007.06.04 01:54:00 - [5] I was discussing this the other day with a friend who flies carriers, the only reason we could come up with is so the training time was kept in line with the Siege Module. ----------- -phreak
B Glorious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.04 02:00:00 - [6] Originally by: xphreakx I was discussing this the other day with a friend who flies carriers, the only reason we could come up with is so the training time was kept in line with the Siege Module. If that's the case it doesn't really fit, since Advanced Weapon Upgrades has benefits on any ship that uses a turret or a launcher, while the Logistics skill is useful only for Logistics ships and fulfilling skill prerequisites. Reducing the prereq down to Logistics IV seems fine to me. And carriers do not need another high slot, thank you very much.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.04 02:08:00 - [7] Originally by: B Glorious And carriers do not need another high slot, thank you very much. Why? At least give a reason. We already had enough trouble with highs, now we're even more gimped since we need room for a triage mod and the reps and transfers to go with it. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
B Glorious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.04 03:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: B Glorious And carriers do not need another high slot, thank you very much. Why? At least give a reason. We already had enough trouble with highs, now we're even more gimped since we need room for a triage mod and the reps and transfers to go with it. How about you give me a reason why you do need more highslots? It had better be something besides "I just want one". What role can't carriers fulfill with the five highslots they have now? What "trouble" does five highslots give you? (though this is getting off-topic)
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.04 04:19:00 - [9] YOU fit your ship high slot for offense/defense. Same here, except we can also add support. One more high slot isn't much, ESPECIALY that we have to put the triage module now. ______ Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
B Glorious Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.04 04:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Icome4u YOU fit your ship high slot for offense/defense. Same here, except we can also add support. One more high slot isn't much, ESPECIALY that we have to put the triage module now. You haven't answered my question. Why does a carrier need another highslot? You can act as a support ship, you can contribute offensively, but you should not be able to do both at the same time, which more highslots would allow. So no, carriers do not need more highslots, and anyone who can say that they do with a straight face has entitlement issues.

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.04 04:40:00 - [11] Bane, its a lot easier to just say: "Carriers are not intended to be solo-pwn mobiles. To an extent, they almost already are. With triage modules, an increase in high slot(s) would allow a carrier to not only be a powerful offenseive tool, but also to shore up any defensive problems the gang might have without needing work to refit. This is unacceptable" ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.04 05:57:00 - [12] Blah this really mucks up my skill plans. Was hopeing it had been finalized at Logistics IV. Guess i'll have to start training earlier than I'd hoped to be ready for the patch. -----
Valandril Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.06.04 10:37:00 - [13] Fix me if i'm wrong but with logistic 5, won't logistic ship work as support ship a lot better than carrier in trainge and thats without having to "siege" himself ? --- I swear to god, ccp choose changes in game via lottery system.
Ozstar Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:26:00 - [14] Drone Interfacing 5 is the carrier equivelent to Advanced Weapon Upgrades in terms of skill requirements. Adding another month long skill to the carrier seems a little harsh.
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Valandril Fix me if i'm wrong but with logistic 5, won't logistic ship work as support ship a lot better than carrier in trainge and thats without having to "siege" himself ? Not really... Onieros with 4 Large Remotes = 1536 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos with 2 Capital Remotes no Triage = 3000 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos, 2 Cap Remotes + triage = 12000 armor per 5 seconds not to mention my carrier wont melt like a paper bag in warm water. Only thing the Logistics has is extra range. -----
Skyblue Oy Haulinalle Ab	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:40:00 - [16] No triage for newbs \o/
Valandril Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.06.04 11:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Valandril Fix me if i'm wrong but with logistic 5, won't logistic ship work as support ship a lot better than carrier in trainge and thats without having to "siege" himself ? Not really... Onieros with 4 Large Remotes = 1536 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos with 2 Capital Remotes no Triage = 3000 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos, 2 Cap Remotes + triage = 12000 armor per 5 seconds not to mention my carrier wont melt like a paper bag in warm water. Only thing the Logistics has is extra range. Aw ok, sorry then :D --- I swear to god, ccp choose changes in game via lottery system.
Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.06.04 13:37:00 - [18] This is a rather lame timesink. Advanced weapon upgrades 5 is at least is a very useful skill for ship fitting but logistics 5 is just a timesink. Please reconsider.
Miyamoto Uroki Katsu Corporation Pure.	Posted - 2007.06.04 14:01:00 - [19] hmm. Dunno. I'm flying a carrier by myself, and will train the skills for logistics cruisers too. As the remote support skills are shared mainly. So for carrier pilots that also use logistics cruiers (which get a boost, yay), it might be worth the skill time. -----------------
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.06.04 16:05:00 - [20] although logistics is a very cute skill, it just works for 4 ships, and that's it. very powerful there (with rev2), but still just for that one family. however, there's not that many skills that'd fit, either; there's no "global" skill to help all other remote modules. maybe some 5% cycle time "bonus"... (and stretch all modules by 20% aswell)? rank... 5? somewhere in the science departement? -

Horsefly Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.04 16:18:00 - [21] Keep Logistic LvL 5 as a pre req. Reasoning being your getting a 400% boost with it. That is a life saver. Being in a corp the regually uses there carriers for fleet support. You cant imagine what kind of help just one carrier does for you. If you have a good fitting on the carrier you should have to have very good support skills to be the best at what there is for logistics.
Thrawnfl	Posted - 2007.06.04 17:31:00 - [22] I really dont care about this Triage mod, i think its a waste of time. No way in hell im going to train Logistics to 5, + the fact your a sitting duck for 10 minutes, enough time to jump dreads on that sitting duck and can't fire back or launch fighters, though I will note this is great for pos defense/spamming. Now if you want to put it into triage mode when a pos is under siege to keep the pos guns at full health... that works, then the dreads kill you... aka sitting duck, + other carriers can't support. Even right now if you put a capital repper on one of your bs's in combat that thing isnt gonna die unless you got 30 ships shooting at it. Logistics 5 isnt worth it when it comes to Triage mode. Triage mode feels more like a death trap.
Auron Shadowbane Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:41:00 - [23] make it require titan5 and I'm ok with it too as I wont use it EVER. 10 min sitting duck for a 4 increase in healing/time, only 2 increas ein healing/cap and NO fighters? this would be ok if you could remote repair carriers in triage with a triage module AND dreads in siege so you can bring in carriers for a siege and help the dreads. the "cirle of healing" wouldnt be a real problem since you could allways wait till the carriers are out of stront while killing their support with ranged weaponry (only 50km ish range with capital repairs). there is no use for a even 1mil/sec healing if 20 bs can insta-volley another bs. another possibility would be to remove the activation, stront and movement things from the triage mode and make it a passive module. maybe make it only take some cap but remove the movement thingy. carriers dont need a highslot addition cause even if you want cloak&smartbomb 2 capital repairs will kill your cap in triage in no time. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
CyberChick Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.04 19:44:00 - [24] Logistics 5 will make triage another useless feature no one will use. It already takes 3 weeks to get to logistics 4, why add another month? I was seeing the potential in triage to keep a fleet alive and turn the tide of battle, but only the die hard logistics players will ever train for this. For triage to actually work properly you need to have 2 or more carriers working together passing capacitor to each other, to counter the cost of remote repairing. The double amount of armor/shield being boosted should stay, its compensation for that lack of any fighters/or ability to move!
Chronus26 Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.04 20:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Thrawnfl I really dont care about this Siege mod, i think its a waste of time. No way in hell im going to train Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 5, + the fact your a sitting duck for 10 minutes, enough time to jump dreads on that sitting duck and track for **, though I will note this is great for pos attacking/spamming. Now if you want to put it into Siege mode when a pos is under siege to shoot the POS... that works, then the dreads kill you... aka sitting duck, + carriers can't support. Even right now if you put a capital repper on one of your bs's in combat that thing isnt gonna die unless you got 30 ships shooting at it. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 isnt worth it when it comes to Siege mode. Siege** mode feels more like a death trap. Siege mode worthless too? -----
CyberChick Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.04 20:47:00 - [26] Edited by: CyberChick on 04/06/2007 20:51:48 Using a modified exported xml file in evemon, (On tranq I can currently fly a Archon, with everything at level 4 i.e. adv drone interfacing, carrier 4, fighters 4 etc) I calculated the amount of time required to retrain for a triage carrier vs a revelation dreadnaught. All skills are based on the following levels: (Note jump drive operation/calibration and self repair/shield systems are not included in the final figures as these are shared) Amarr Battleship 4 Drone Interfacing 4 Leadership 4 Long Range Targeting 4 Spaceship command 5 Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4 Large Energy Turret 4 Archon + Triage mode (add several days for the tactical logistics configuration skill at level 4): Amarr carrier level 4, Advanced drone interfacing 4, Fighters 4, Logistics 5: (Note not including the remote capital energy transfers/remote armor/hull/shield transferrers) 174 days Revelation plus Siege Mode: Amarr Dreadnaught 4, Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration 4, Capital Energy Turret 4: 147 days I don't understand why it should take an additional 30 > 60 (add triage/remote transferrer skills too) days to have these feature on Carriers?
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2007.06.04 21:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Chronus26 Originally by: Valandril Fix me if i'm wrong but with logistic 5, won't logistic ship work as support ship a lot better than carrier in trainge and thats without having to "siege" himself ? Not really... Onieros with 4 Large Remotes = 1536 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos with 2 Capital Remotes no Triage = 3000 armor per 5 seconds Thanatos, 2 Cap Remotes + triage = 12000 armor per 5 seconds not to mention my carrier wont melt like a paper bag in warm water. Only thing the Logistics has is extra range. You didn't mention that the Onieros is far more cap efficient. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Thrawnfl	Posted - 2007.06.04 21:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Chronus26 Edited by: Chronus26 on 04/06/2007 20:47:52 Originally by: Thrawnfl I really dont care about this Siege mod, i think its a waste of time. No way in hell im going to train Advanced Weapon Upgrades to 5, + the fact your a sitting duck for 10 minutes, enough time to jump dreads on that sitting duck and track for **, though I will note this is great for pos attacking/spamming. Now if you want to put it into Siege mode when a pos is under siege to shoot the POS... that works, then the dreads kill you... aka sitting duck, + carriers can't support. Even right now if you put a capital repper on one of your bs's in combat that thing isnt gonna die unless you got 30 ships shooting at it. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 isnt worth it when it comes to Siege mode. Siege mode feels more like a death trap. Siege mode worthless too? Umm... your quote from me is way off from what i actually said.... Im not sure how Logistics 5 got changed to "Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5" + so much more in my post... and htf defending got changed to attacking... im sorry but you really should NOT quote someone then change what they said in that quote. And as for "Siege mode worthless too?" I NEVER Said that! I said "I really dont care about this Triage** mod, i think its a waste of time." So Please dont do that again! Taking the carriers from a combat roll which alot of us enjoy to a complete logistic roll is dumb, not many people will use it... it'll be about the same amount of people that fly titans right now.(boy isnt that a waste of effort). I've been trying to think of a situation where I would use this feature... and the only one I can really think of that would work is Repping pos that just came out of reinforced. (If carriers didnt help enough already for this). other than that... its null and void. Hey CCP, want to do something useful for carrier pilots? Scrap this and upgrade the bloody Drone UI!
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.06.04 22:34:00 - [29] Originally by: CyberChick For triage to actually work properly you need to have 2 or more carriers working together passing capacitor to each other, to counter the cost of remote repairing. And as you can see in the OP that is not possible. Being in triage mode makes it impossible to assist you with remote rep, cap transfer etc at all, just like a dread in siege mode behaves.
Shumanus	Posted - 2007.06.04 22:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki hmm. Dunno. I'm flying a carrier by myself, and will train the skills for logistics cruisers too. As the remote support skills are shared mainly. So for carrier pilots that also use logistics cruiers (which get a boost, yay), it might be worth the skill time. To be perfectly honest I don't see any reason to exchange my Archon for a Guardian. It would be a downgrade. Seems like the "whaaaa siege mod takes AWU 5 and triage only takes logistics 4 whaaaa" whiners lobbied this one out. Grats.



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