Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 06:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Khan Dhu on 06/06/2007 06:33:49 I've been thinking about this a lot recently - now that the lottery is coming to an end and we're beginning to see the mass liquidation of cores in dead fields, it begs the question - what happens when the glut runs out?
Seriously...the average person is not running five or six research agents, and even those who do are pulling in maybe 15 cores per day. And less people are going to go R&D in the future because they won't have a chance at a BPO win/big payday.
So, when those tens and hundreds of thousands of datacores, which are bought by the thousands per day in Jita exhaust themselves, and when that sales rate is tripled or quintupled due to the crashing prices, what happens when the supply runs out?
The answer: stagnation and then rapid inflation.
When the glut supply of "screw it, I didn't win anything" datacores runs out, the only new ones cropping up for sale will be those that trickle in 5-10 each day from individual players. I think we all know what happens when scarcity hits the EVE market system. Datacore prices will skyrocket, personal to corporate invention lines will stagnate for lack of supply, and the T2 market will resemble something oddly reminiscent of the "bad old days."
The decrease in RP required to procure datacores was an excellent first step in the right direction, but this train is headed towards a brick wall that the engineers can see but won't stop for. And Chron, regarding just increasing the number of agents, that won't stop this from happening.
Possible solutions:
1. Two new skills which increase "research efficiency" by 10% per level. Make the first one named "Advanced Researching" and the next one after that "Exhaustive Researching." Rank 3 and Rank 5 sound fair to me. This will make it so people who take the time to train Extensive Researching to V will earn the trainers double the RP per day they would have normally gotten. I mean, there aren't going to be any BPOs left, what's the harm? This skill would make it so the only people who really had to ever train field skills to Level V would be the people actually running the invention jobs themselves.
2. Give corporations with excellent (greater than 8.00) standings to NPC production corps "special deals" and RP discounts on datacore pricing and T1/subcomponent BPOs available through that corp. Centralize the corporate inventors and promote intercommunication so one corporation doesn't have to grind every single NPC production corp. This won't deter people who invent for personal use and light sales.
3. Make more smaller corporations offer R&D agents - corps like Chemal Tech, Allotek Industries (just to name two subcorps for Gallente) claim to be extremely specialized in certain fields - make their R&D agents *only* give out RP in the fields they're specialized in.
4. This might be the most controversial, but put in Level 5-7 R&D agents. My corporation has a perfect 10.00 standing with Creodron, which means players with no standings who train RPM IV can join my corporation and effectively start utilizing and earning RP straight away.
5. To partially solve the blueprint copy problem, give each of these NPC production stations copy slots which are only usable by members of corporations with "x" amount of personal/corporate standings. Again, something that will promote the development of invention conglomerates.
6. Start putting datacores as mission loot in L1-L4 missions in silos and "research arrays" to give new players/mission runners the ability to "mine without mining."
And finally...unrelated to the above, of course, but as long as I have your attention...
7. Make personal standings towards a corporation count positively towards the success of invention jobs. If someone ground 8-10.00 in Thukker Mix, personally I think they should be considered as being "imbued" with a much better understanding of their products when inventing ships like Vagabonds, for instance.
|
Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 06:32:00 -
[2]
Oh - is it too much to ask that for the good of the invention community that Research Project Management be adjusted to something fairer like a Rank 6 skill with Memory/Intelligence or Intelligence/Memory?
That would certainly make it more palatable a train for the wealth of Achura R&D characters who sprung up around the last "Power of 2" promo.
...yes, myself included.
|
maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 07:25:00 -
[3]
As long as people can make ISK from doing sweet nothing to get it, they'll do it. Datacores do this. Also, if there is a crash, it will soon be rectified by the hundreds of players that go "Oh look, datacore prices are through the roof, better go get an agent and make a profit".
It's not like everyone that currently has a agent is going to stop having that agent simply cause the BPO lottery is over. They'll keep them and they'll sell the datacores. I wouldn't worry too much.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 07:32:00 -
[4]
maarud hit it spot on: This is a non-issuse.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 08:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khan Dhu thinking .. less people are going to go R&D
So much fuss based on very unlikely premise (and even if the assumption was likely, CCP should fix things after the stagnation, not based on guesses).
Anyway, now that R&D agents turn to be fixed guranteed income, even more people will start doing it. This is assuming datacore price is high enough (>200k). And if the price isn't that high, well, we don't have the issue.
In the long term GTC prices and stable datacore price will be related. Like paying 370M for 90 days GTC you get 1600+ datacores, and can afford to sell them at 370M/1600 =~ 230k or less.
-Lasse
|
Tramp Oline
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 11:10:00 -
[6]
New skills aren't needed. There is already a way to increase the number of datacores and research points by 100%. Go and actually do 1 mission for your agent every day.
|
Aykido
Gallente Lobster of Babel
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 12:01:00 -
[7]
Just make the datacores drop a bit more through exploration, AND make the R&D missions a bit more rewarding. Giving Datacores as time bonus for example.
A research connections skill that influences R&D agents in much the same way as the other Connections skills do would be nice.
Definately NOT make the charisma attribute handicap of achurans go away. Starting with Lab Ops 5 and the best possible Int/Mem combination is more than enough advantage.
I'd love to see the level 5 R&D agents enabled, and more R&D corps with a couple of R&D agents (much like the Nefantar Miner Association) would be much appreciated.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of 674 of the 730 seeded T1 BPOs: Ships, modules, rigs, drones, ammo, probes, components and capital mods, drones & ammo. (Cap Ships, Cap Components and Outposts 2007/2008) |
Vasiliyan
Dutch T2 Production
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 16:37:00 -
[8]
Datacore prices will stabilise at a point where it's moderately profitable to run an account full of researching alts off GTC. Let's not have doomsaying about this.
What's more concerning is that CCP have broken the use of POSes for alliance copying. BPC supply is now starting to limit the rate of datacore use.
|
Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.06.06 16:45:00 -
[9]
i think you found a good investment idea :) buy them cheap resell them later
- next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days - |
Anopheli
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 15:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vasiliyan What's more concerning is that CCP have broken the use of POSes for alliance copying. BPC supply is now starting to limit the rate of datacore use.
That and the single copyslot tends to limit things.
Take a look at Sinq Laison. All the public copyslots have wait times at what ME research slots used to have.
|
|
Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: maarud As long as people can make ISK from doing sweet nothing to get it, they'll do it. Datacores do this. Also, if there is a crash, it will soon be rectified by the hundreds of players that go "Oh look, datacore prices are through the roof, better go get an agent and make a profit".
It's not like everyone that currently has a agent is going to stop having that agent simply cause the BPO lottery is over. They'll keep them and they'll sell the datacores. I wouldn't worry too much.
True, and if that doesn't happen, CCP has shown that they ARE monitoring invention and willing to make adjustments. They are probably waiting to see exactly what happens and fix it them, rather than guessing and potentially flooding the market with datacores (their original worry with the original datacore prices and purchase limits.) ------------ Ezra Cornell
|
Ztrain
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 22:34:00 -
[12]
Now I may be mistaken but I do believe I remember a Blog stating (not going back to look it up) that the Rev 2 lotto would be a double accelerated to the speed of a regular lotto cycle. So in effect there will be two more lotto's worth of BPOs seeded. So right now the T2 BPOs have doubled. In a short time after Rev 2 the current amount of BPOs will double. That's total of 4 times the number of the original BPOs for T2 out there.
As far as invention, after doing the initial start up you need the following:
- Data interface - reusuable
- BPCs - You ether need to have the T1 BPO to make copies from or buy them on market
- Origional item - Optional but for most T1 is cheap and if you have the BPO from above trivial expense to make a few.
- Data Cores - See below
You can use decryptors but that's some else entirely. This thread is about lack of Datacores. Data cores right now are coming from 2 places. People cashing in on RP points that they've decided they're not waiting to see if they win the lotto, and exploration sites.
After the lotto like the original poster stated you going to see a huge influx of Data Cores when everyone cashes in. Stock up enjoy the avalibility etc. But will the market vanish? No
First of all a lot to people will still be running exploration sites. The ones that are interested in the data cores will keep them. Those who are not will dump them on the market just as they do today. Also there will be some that will use their RPs being generated by their agents to fuel their own invention. If you have research agents in the area's of which you want to do invention your invention jobs are near free. For those that don't want to bother with invention but have lots of agents they'll put their cores up on the market for a semi regular and after a while stable source of income.
Z
|
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 23:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: maarud As long as people can make ISK from doing sweet nothing to get it, they'll do it. Datacores do this. Also, if there is a crash, it will soon be rectified by the hundreds of players that go "Oh look, datacore prices are through the roof, better go get an agent and make a profit".
It's not like everyone that currently has a agent is going to stop having that agent simply cause the BPO lottery is over. They'll keep them and they'll sell the datacores. I wouldn't worry too much.
You Sir, hit it on the head :3
|
scabbsssjr
Gallente M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 00:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: maarud As long as people can make ISK from doing sweet nothing to get it, they'll do it. Datacores do this. Also, if there is a crash, it will soon be rectified by the hundreds of players that go "Oh look, datacore prices are through the roof, better go get an agent and make a profit".
It's not like everyone that currently has a agent is going to stop having that agent simply cause the BPO lottery is over. They'll keep them and they'll sell the datacores. I wouldn't worry too much.
It may get even better. All of us greedy *****s (me!!) will stop crossing our fingers hoping we get the last of the t2 bpos. Their may even be more sellers (not enough to make a major impact) :) ---------------------------
Originally by: Ductoris At this rate I'm going to ask for a BOB sub-forum.
|
Atreus Danerun
Amarr Caldari Bank
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 03:12:00 -
[15]
Too early to cry "fire" and "the sky is falling." There are tens of thousands of players with the datacores. There are tens of millions of them floating about. The outcome you are suggesting is just plain panic, at least nothing in evidence to substantiate it at this time.
If anything we need to give Invention some time to work. I run 10 invention jobs every 3 days. I make really good ISK that way, even buying some datacores and decriptors off market prices.
T2 SALES & SERVICES |
Anopheli
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 06:03:00 -
[16]
Someone worked out a minimum cost for datacores to around 45,000 ISK. You can see that thread here. Beyond that, demand will set that price.
I buy my datacores at market price, along with T2 components. I produce the bpcs myself, and manage to make a reasonable profit, depending on the item. Things tend to fluctuate. I made several hundred million the first week I got into it because prices were still high, and I was inventing with skills at rank 1.
The main fault I see in invention is that it's going to make copyslots into the new ME slots. Wait times are already climbing. It's one thing to anchor a handful of mobile research arrays that give you a handful of useful slots, but when they only give you one, at a price of 90 million, you think twice, even with that sweet 25% speed boost.
As it is stands, I feel that the cost of data interfaces and encryption skills presents a sufficient entry barrier to keep things from going completely insane.
|
Serpha
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 10:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Khan Dhu Oh - is it too much to ask that for the good of the invention community that Research Project Management be adjusted to something fairer like a Rank 6 skill with Memory/Intelligence or Intelligence/Memory?
That would certainly make it more palatable a train for the wealth of Achura R&D characters who sprung up around the last "Power of 2" promo.
...yes, myself included.
Would definitely have to object to that idea. While I had a 'socially gimped' Achura character myself, if someone choses to gimp their charisma attribute so they can max out the rest of their skill training, then I don't think the game should be changed so that they don't experience the consequences of their decision.
I do agree that the skilling being a lvl8 was higher than I expected it to be, however for a skill that allows you to make isk for almost zero effort (standing grinding aside) I guess it isn't so bad.
|
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 19:59:00 -
[18]
Quote: Oh - is it too much to ask that for the good of the invention community that Research Project Management be adjusted to something fairer like a Rank 6 skill with Memory/Intelligence or Intelligence/Memory?
That would certainly make it more palatable a train for the wealth of Achura R&D characters who sprung up around the last "Power of 2" promo.
...yes, myself included.
If ever there was a more clear-cut case of "You made your bed, now lay the hell down in it", I doubt I'll ever see it during my lifetime. Achura are so stupidly overpowered as it is, the very very last thing they could possibly need is more benefits. I personally hope that the next big wave of skills are all charisma primary, and all really important for people to get.
Suck it up.
|
Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 20:40:00 -
[19]
Actually I think the stats on a Brutor Minmatter look a bit better than an Achura if you're looking for solely a PvP character.
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
|
Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 09:48:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Khan Dhu on 09/06/2007 09:47:36 Well, there are four L5 R&D agents on SiSi.
The bad news is right now they're only for Roden, Creodron, Boundless Creation, and Ishukone and none of them have Mechanical:
Link
|
|
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 12:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Khan Dhu Edited by: Khan Dhu on 09/06/2007 09:47:36 Well, there are four L5 R&D agents on SiSi.
The bad news is right now they're only for Roden, Creodron, Boundless Creation, and Ishukone and none of them have Mechanical:
Link
Correction #1: there are four L5 agents in the database dump eve-agents.com uses. No L5 r&d agent is enabled on sisi right now (at least none i could find / the ones listed there).
Correction #2: eve-agents lists the boundless creation agent with Mechanical Engineering, so where do you get the idea that none has mech?
-- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 12:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
Correction #2: eve-agents lists the boundless creation agent with Mechanical Engineering, so where do you get the idea that none has mech?
By misreading. Whoops.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |