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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:40:00 -
[1]
I would like to see Empire based stock markets and banks implemented in game, and not so much player driven ones. I've invested in a handful of player ones, but there is the ever lingering fear of the scammer.
Perhaps if we could invest our billion iskies into a stable bank, and get 2-3 points back on it each month, people would be able to play the trader/investor aspect of the economy to a greater extent?
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Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:41:00 -
[2]
Basically you just want free ISK without the risk of a scam?
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:42:00 -
[3]
Nice idea, but very unlikely to happen. The one thing EVE's economy most definitely doesn't need right now is another ISK faucet.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:42:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ray McCormack
Basically you just want free ISK without the risk of a scam?
No, I want to put ISK where I can't get it and earn something for not spending it.
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Anferney
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Basically you just want free ISK without the risk of a scam?
No, I want to put ISK where I can't get it and earn something for not spending it.
A player operated bank would satisfy that, just with the risk of you getting ripped off. So, why not look for a reputable player operated bank (if there are any and if there aren't, try starting one) rather than just asking the devs to make an NPC one.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:59:00 -
[6]
In rl, banks, though sometimes privately owned, are regulated and insured by the government. A player owned bank would have no such oversight, which is why Eve cannot really have player owned banks. I think an NPC bank would be an interesting idea, but not particularly needed.
Stock markets on the other hand, I think would be a great addition, especially since shares are mostly pointless atm.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Maxpie
Stock markets on the other hand, I think would be a great addition, especially since shares are mostly pointless atm.
EGSEx
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Haradgrim
Caldari
The Wild Bunch
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:10:00 -
[8]
meaningful changes to the player corp share/stock market that would allow some form of trading would be transcendent IMHO.
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |
Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 19:59:00 -
[9]
The only way to implement an NPC driven stock market without the fear of rampant abuse (If its NPC driven, the changes are coded beforehand, which would open up the potential for someone doing to coding to give insider trading) would be to have the stocks available track to real life stocks that way NO ONE really knows where it will go.
The idea is sound but would require alot of work to keep it truly secure. For example, you could take the top 3 energy companies real life stock performance and average it out then use that as the stock price for some NPC energy corp, etc etc.
As for NPC bankjs, thats just free money with no risk whatsoever. Now if you tied it in to loans it might work, but thats almost a bit too much RL for me.
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Neveren
Caldari
Setenta Corp
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 20:08:00 -
[10]
You should post this idea in the Ideas and Features.
STC recruiting!
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Sergio Ling
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.06 20:33:00 -
[11]
or of course, introduce an NPC regulatory committe. Once you have sufficient standing with an empire, you can open a bank in their space, andoffer whatever interest rates and so on you want. if you scam, it gets reported, and the commission takes your isk and refunds it to the players. it's workable
_
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.06 20:46:00 -
[12]
the stock exchange should all be stocks from player corps, and have a fully player-driven stock market. or perhaps the stock prices of NPC corps would be indirectly player-driven through market activity and possible agent missions.
this would be very interesting indeed.
loans from NPC? too easy to abuse and hard to enforce. even if everyone took out reasonable loans, the economy would still see major inflation.
loans of ISK from players? this might work. the current loan contract is basically the converse. it can be done but its confusing. and there isn't really any way to charge interest. also, since it is backwards, the "lender" does not own the contract. and would the "borrower" be able to actually spend the isk since it's the collateral on the contract?
basically, they just need to change the loan contract setup and wording to be reversable just like how item exchanges are. items for isk, [want to borrow], etc. it would basically become a "temporary" item exchange.
one way around it would be to have 2 item exchanges... one to loan it out and the other to repay it. but then at that point, trust becomes an issue since there is no way to link the contracts together as one.
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.06 20:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sergio Ling
or of course, introduce an NPC regulatory committe. Once you have sufficient standing with an empire, you can open a bank in their space, andoffer whatever interest rates and so on you want. if you scam, it gets reported, and the commission takes your isk and refunds it to the players. it's workable
so basically create bank corps much like real life ones. only issue is that in real life the FDIC insures your account balance. so they would need something similar, unless all they did was issue loans. but then loans would need a credit score system, foreclosure, etc.
i am sure there are many corps/alliances with lots of honest services to offer. but they see very little business because of the trust required by both parties using current mechanics. having better ways to advertise would be helpful too.
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Maxine Blade
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Posted - 2007.06.06 21:41:00 -
[14]
Start small.
The first way to do it is to enhance the Loan feature in Contracts.
Right now, if you use the Contracts system to Loan money/modules, and the person borrowing defaults, there is really no recourse.
If the Loan Feature is changed, that a player can't default, and over time, ISKs from the player's account are filtered to the lender for repayment, that that would be good.
Or, another way is that a lender has kill rights to a borrower if he should default on a loan. The kill rights should either be permanent, or up to the point that the defaulter has lost an equivalent amount of ISKs with each ship that is blown up.
If possible, I'd like to see the Devs enhance the Bounty system so that if someone defaults on a loan, you can delegate kill rights to another corp as a bounty!
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Cmdr Sy
IMPERIAL SENATE
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.06.06 21:50:00 -
[15]
You can't have much of an investment banking system without a fiat currency and fractional reserve banking. ISK in EVE is too extensively linked to the NPC markets for that to happen. In order to replicate the economic structures of the real world, you would have to decouple the value of ISK from the rest of the economy and let it float on sentiment, then take a number of other steps which any rational investor should find crazy. In the real world, it works because enough people have bought into the illusion; getting the buy-in of everyone in EVE after the existence of 'old money' (ie the current class of tycoons) would be impossible. In fact, it would be undesirable. It would also be interesting to see the inflationary effects of switching the source of the money supply from NPCs to banks which loan more than they have on deposit, and subsequent whine threads. The economic system in EVE is actually better grounded and is more stable and secure than its real world counterpart.
In principle of course, you could create an NPC stock market simulator which let you trade shares in NPC corps, rigged to be a zero sum game. You could even add derivatives, hedges, carry trade and all sorts of toys, or limit it to tedious spreadbetting. But what would be the point of paying for a sci-fi game in which you sit inside a space station watching charts? I'd rather camp a gate than a ticker bar, cheers.
Logoffs
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Sweetshop Suzie
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Maxpie
Stock markets on the other hand, I think would be a great addition, especially since shares are mostly pointless atm.
EGSEx
Guess you all missed this eh, heres a clue, the link
it works, best stocks with most return ? ISS, nothing else I've seen comes close.
No I'm not an ISS alt, in fact they're red to my main 
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Macmuelli
Gallente
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:12:00 -
[17]
The only way i coud see in this is having a hypthek on ships u have.
If u dont pay the credit it will go out of your hangar.
If it s destroeyd a second person had to pay for it like real life credits.
But i think it is realy realy dificult to balance this out.
So i dont see any chance.
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.06.06 22:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sergio Ling
or of course, introduce an NPC regulatory committe. Once you have sufficient standing with an empire, you can open a bank in their space, andoffer whatever interest rates and so on you want. if you scam, it gets reported, and the commission takes your isk and refunds it to the players. it's workable
In the climate of intrigue and distrust that permeates EVE, I doubt an honest bank would survive for very long. In order to pay meaningful interest on its customers accounts, it'd need to loan out their isk to borrowers and have a reasonably secure means of collecting repayments (or otherwise invest it, I suppose). Let's assume that this is possible. There's still a risk that a large contingent of account holders will want to withdraw everything simultaneously (a 'run'); they might well do it deliberately, just out of spite. You'd need enormous liquid reserves just to have a chance.
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.06.06 23:41:00 -
[19]
An NPC bank is a bad idea. First, it will just bring more isk into the game, which is a bad thing. Second, you want to be rewarded for not participating in EVE's economy, which is a bad thing. Third, EVE is about a PLAYER driven economy, thats the entire point.
An NPC stock market is also a bad idea. Tools to help with stock transactions are a good idea though. NPC stock market would be the most open to abuse idea I could think of. NPCs can't oversee things, they can't judge the validity of particular stocks, they can't halt trading in certain situations where it is needed.
We have a thriving player driven stock market, comprised in large by a close knit community. This is a very satisfying and exciting part of the game to be involved in. At the moment, there would be close to one trillion isk in public money invested into these companies, the figure is probably even a bit higher than that.
We also have 2 player run stock exchanges that do tens of billions of isk worth of transactions per month. I am just one of many brokers and I handled over 16b last month, so I know the figures.
EVE is about the PLAYERS, not the NPCs. The players, especially in areas such as these, will always be ahead of the ball game as we develop lost of ideas and bring them to the game. What we need from CCP are new tools to make this easier (share transaction log, hello!!), not an artificial market with NPC run financiall institutions.
Oh, and to the ISS guy; ISS is a solid investment returning about 5% per month but it is nowhere near the best performing security out there :) There are a pile I can think of, in fact, I run 2 of them. (shameless plug)
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:48:00 -
[20]
Quote:
The first way to do it is to enhance the Loan feature in Contracts.
This.
Please.
Very much needed. There is nothing at all preventing people from not paying back loans. It's rather useless in its current form.
It doesn't have to make them negative - that's exploitable - but at least take them to 0 isk if they don't pay.
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 02:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
I would like to see Empire based stock markets and banks implemented in game, and not so much player driven ones. I've invested in a handful of player ones, but there is the ever lingering fear of the scammer.
Perhaps if we could invest our billion iskies into a stable bank, and get 2-3 points back on it each month, people would be able to play the trader/investor aspect of the economy to a greater extent?
We already have those. Create a large buy order for something, and voila! Your ISK is gone from your wallet, and it would cost you ISK to cancel your buy order.
On top of that, when you eventually go collect it, and take all those modules / ships / whatever and reprocess / resell them, you'll make 2-3 points.
-CD
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