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PaleRider 1	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:02:00 - [1] Who the crap is this .86 freak. He keeps driving the price down on everything I try to sell. I can always tell I'm screwed by the .86 on the price. What, is he TRYING to kill market speccing in EvE. My god. If anyone finds out who it is. Let me know. I suicide pod the twirp.
Ki Shodan Gallente deep blue	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:05:00 - [2] try to buy one of these .86 items and check your wallet, if not the "evil doer" himself you get at least one of his alts ... -- Evemail me, if my name is used as guarantor!
Valiant Brightstar The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:52:00 - [3] Edited by: Valiant Brightstar on 06/06/2007 18:50:35 Screw .86. Who the hell is .12? This guy is crashing markets left and right. .12 - Why do you insist on bidding up by 500k? You do know that the idea is to get to the top of the pile with the most amount of profit left. .12 = lamesauce.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Valiant Brightstar Edited by: Valiant Brightstar on 06/06/2007 18:50:35 Screw .86. Who the hell is .12? This guy is crashing markets left and right. .12 - Why do you insist on bidding up by 500k? You do know that the idea is to get to the top of the pile with the most amount of profit left. .12 = lamesauce. Looks like someone can't handle some competition. I wish I could claim to be both of these people... because I absolutely love getting this reaction from other traders. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Valiant Brightstar The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:00:00 - [5] LOL. Competition I can handle. He wants to outbid me - cool i'm with that - that's the name of the game. But doing with 500k what you can accomplish with .1 isk seems silly unless you're trying to knock out people that can't afford another 500k. Oh well - i'll see you in battle .12 and .86.
Henri Rousseau Claulenne Chemical Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:25:00 - [6] Because this Originally by: Valiant Brightstar with .1 isk isn't competition... Originally by: Valiant Brightstar trying to knock out people that can't afford another 500k. ... but that is.
Valiant Brightstar The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:36:00 - [7] How so Henri? They both accomplish the exact same thing except one keeps more money in your pocket. The goal (sometimes at least) is to be the lowest seller or the highest buyer. i.e. 500,000.00 < 500,000.01 is the same as 500,000.00 < 600,000.00 What don't i get?
Mr Minmatar Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Valiant Brightstar How so Henri? They both accomplish the exact same thing except one keeps more money in your pocket. The goal (sometimes at least) is to be the lowest seller or the highest buyer. i.e. 500,000.00 < 500,000.01 is the same as 500,000.00 < 600,000.00 What don't i get? Two possibilities: he's willing to temporarily make little/no profit or even a loss to 'encourage' you to leave the market to him so he can have a monopoly. Or he may be hoping he can get your emotions involved in a bidding war and force YOU to take a loss either by flooding a buy with items above their value or buying your sell order out below his cost.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Valiant Brightstar How so Henri? They both accomplish the exact same thing except one keeps more money in your pocket. The goal (sometimes at least) is to be the lowest seller or the highest buyer. i.e. 500,000.00 < 500,000.01 is the same as 500,000.00 < 600,000.00 What don't i get? Undercutting by .01 ISK doesn't have any economic consequences--all it does it move you down the list so that people sell to you first. In terms of competition, it is meaningless. Undercutting by 100k is far more effective in pushing your opponents out of business, or at least ensuring they don't undercut you back. I have found that undercutting by 0.01 ISK in many cases is totally useless, because you'll get undercut 20 seconds later. --23 Member--
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Valiant Brightstar How so Henri? They both accomplish the exact same thing except one keeps more money in your pocket. The goal (sometimes at least) is to be the lowest seller or the highest buyer. i.e. 500,000.00 < 500,000.01 is the same as 500,000.00 < 600,000.00 What don't i get? Undercutting by .01 ISK doesn't have any economic consequences--all it does it move you down the list so that people sell to you first. In terms of competition, it is meaningless. Undercutting by 100k is far more effective in pushing your opponents out of business, or at least ensuring they don't undercut you back. I have found that undercutting by 0.01 ISK in many cases is totally useless, because you'll get undercut 20 seconds later. It still funny; as funny as the waffle loving drones.

FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Valiant Brightstar LOL. Competition I can handle. He wants to outbid me - cool i'm with that - that's the name of the game. But doing with 500k what you can accomplish with .1 isk seems silly unless you're trying to knock out people that can't afford another 500k. Oh well - i'll see you in battle .12 and .86. You can't always accomplish the same thing with 0.01 as you can with 500k. I'd rather drive someone out of the market and have it to myself (at which stage I can adjust my prices again) than spend all day managing 0.01 ISK bidding wars on small margins. It's the difference between a short-term view (what will give me the most profit today) and a longer term one (what can I do to maximise my return on capital/time over a longer period). Or it's just an extremely short-term strategy by the competitor (I want to convert these items into ISK in a rush). Aggressive price-competition like that is a golden opportunity if you know what you're doing and the opponent doesn't.
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:51:00 - [12] I play hard ball too, 0.1 isk undercuts mean you just have to sit there and wait till another buyer/sell does it 20 seconds later and you have to do it again. I go for larger undercuts and after a few it makes them think twice about undercutting me again. There are all sorts of market pvp techniques with orders that I am certainly not going to go in to here :) Obviously, the .12 and .86 are merely there for identification purposes. If you are market PVPing one of these guys, just create a number of similarly sized orders with the same suffix, and see how long they want to keep fighting you.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:33:00 - [13] I plead the fifth
Samuel Freedom Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:38:00 - [14] I was buying some items and for awhile used the 0.01 routine and it was rubbish, as the other guys would just 0.01 me back asap. I found that if I increased the amount significantly i.e. 500k then alot less of the 0.01 people re-submitted . Hard ball is better, who wants to sit at the keyboard changing 0.01 prices every 15 mins anyway ? Man that is boring, I play about 4 hours a day atm, that would be 4 hours of boredom for me
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:01:00 - [15] This topic is the Market Discussion equivalent of Crime and Punishment's "Pirates aren't real PvPers" New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:28:00 - [16] Oh, and if you catch someone doing .86 or .12 or .57... copy them. Put .86 on yours until their heads explode --23 Member--
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:18:00 - [17] Originally by: PaleRider 1 Who the crap is this .00 freak. He keeps driving the price down on everything I try to sell. What, is he TRYING to kill market speccing in EvE. My god. If anyone finds out who it is. Let me know. I suicide pod the twirp. Fixed.
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 03:42:00 - [18] Edited by: Algorithm 5 on 07/06/2007 03:42:37 Originally by: Dark Shikari Undercutting by .01 ISK doesn't have any economic consequences--all it does it move you down the list so that people sell to you first. In terms of competition, it is meaningless. It is, however, quite a valid tactical move for people that are isk-poor (i.e. fully invested) and time-rich. In fact, reading some of the other answers, it's probably the market pvp equivalent of gate camping. You can spend a LOT of time just sitting there twiddling your fingers :)
Amicus Pauperi	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:55:00 - [19] If the guy is wiping out all the profit with high buy orders, one thing you can do is to saddle him with tons of inventory. Make/acquire as many of the modules as you can, and sell them to the guy at cost. This may seem pointless - you're making 0% profit. Your opponent would see it in other ways however. His ISK just got converted to non-liquid inventory. If it's a seller undercutting prices down to 0% profit, just buy the modules up and recycle. Either way, when faced with a fight, don't come to the forums and cry. Fight back. Economic PvP - Cornering Jita 4-4
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Sun Win This topic is the Market Discussion equivalent of Crime and Punishment's "Pirates aren't real PvPers" It's more like saying that there's more than button mashing to combat. I'm sure it's been said many other ways, but here goes: Success in trading does not hinge solely on having the best price on the market. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)

Havok Pierce Gallente Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 21:38:00 - [21] Personally, I find shifting prices by 0.01 to be like fencing: you move fast and often. 500k is like face-punching the other guy: hit hard and hope he doesn't get back up. Not a bad plan if you can hit first.
Corporati Capitalis	Posted - 2007.06.08 00:40:00 - [22] Edited by: Corporati Capitalis on 08/06/2007 00:41:51 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Valiant Brightstar Edited by: Valiant Brightstar on 06/06/2007 18:50:35 Screw .86. Who the hell is .12? This guy is crashing markets left and right. .12 - Why do you insist on bidding up by 500k? You do know that the idea is to get to the top of the pile with the most amount of profit left. .12 = lamesauce. Looks like someone can't handle some competition. I wish I could claim to be both of these people... because I absolutely love getting this reaction from other traders. I love crashing the profit margins left and right. [EDIT] Sadly, I'm not either of these people, either.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.06.08 04:20:00 - [23] .01 isk is for someone who has lots of time. 500k isk is for someone who wants to win immediately. Plus if you do the 500k thing you get threads like this... which is a major bonus imo. I'm shocked no one has made one based on my prices... I'm fairly obvious with the way I list my orders and I always bump by far higher than .01. Often in 100k or more increments. I feel like I am not bumping enough since I don't get any of these threads. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Schalke04 Pegasus Reborn Inc	Posted - 2007.06.08 07:50:00 - [24] Well since i value my time, i dont play the 0.01-0.9something wars.....its annoying. Even in jita you can make a healthy profit, by just buying up and selling, and if people try to overbif you, raise, raise and raise in meainigful amounts...and than i put it in my iteron and my alt or corp mates take it to another regions and make a real nice profit. But i have to agree....noone has mad a thread bout me,so prolly iam not raising enough :(.
Daeva Vios	Posted - 2007.06.08 09:43:00 - [25] I've played both sides of this, and found the it can be beneficial to play it either way. The .01-.99 game is, as stated above, for when players don't have the liquid assets to push out more established players with a larger standing wallet balance. But it's got other purposes that can be of benefit to both players. They're both reasonable ways of playing the market game, it's just a matter of how much PVP you really want to engage in.
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2007.06.08 11:25:00 - [26] I'm more of a .21 man myself. But if you really want it to stop, buy one and track down his alt and gank him.
Shakuul Caldari The Imperial Commonwealth The Sundering	Posted - 2007.06.08 11:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Sales Merchant I'm more of a .21 man myself. But if you really want it to stop, buy one and track down his alt and gank him. You can't gank someone who never undocks
Daeva Vios	Posted - 2007.06.08 11:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Shakuul Originally by: Sales Merchant I'm more of a .21 man myself. But if you really want it to stop, buy one and track down his alt and gank him. You can't gank someone who never undocks ...You mean there's more to the game than the Market, Wallet, Assets, and chat windows? You lie. You lie like a dog.


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