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Tyrone Bigams
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:23:00 -
[1]
What is the best way for a small 3-5 man gang consisting mainly of BC an interceptor or two and BS to kill, not just tank/survive, a pair of nano-rapiers and some support if they have any.
I have found it hard to track them with guns, missile damage is negligible for them due to speed and resistances. Also getting a point on them is easy but they will just MWD away and inty who try catch them will be utterly disapointed.
Will an overwhelming number of ships have to attack them so they cant possibly web everyone. Or is this another situation heavy nos can handle.
Just looking for overall strategy and advice on how to take them out without having to gather too much of a gank squad.
.... bet anything ryssa will show up 
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:25:00 -
[2]
lol aint giving you information on this one. I can think of jamming + snipers (M sized)+ using huggins yourself.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Tyrone Bigams
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:27:00 -
[3]
I feel jamming them to hell makes them too scared to fight and they run away before you can get them. |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:28:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tyrone Bigams
.... bet anything ryssa will show up
Hi there mate :D
Ok, I'll start of telling you some simple basics.
First of all, if you die in a nanoed up ship which is reasonable fast (4 to 5km/s) you messed up. Simply, if you play it perfect, there almost does not exist a situation in which you can die.
That said, first of all you will need ships that go as fast as they do.
You will need dampeners.
I recommend also a cloaked rapier.
Tactic:
1. Make bait
2. Decloak Rapier + Arazu (or a couple arazus)
3. Web down one of them damp them both.
4. ...
5. Profit.
However, if they are paying attention, then this will fail.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:29:00 -
[5]
The good thing about fighting Matari Recons is that they ain't terribly offensive by themselves. If you are engaged by one (or several), then if you're setup well and in a BC or higher, you can tank them, if only for a short while. Once they have engaged, just get a gangmate with powerful medium-range guns to warp to you 50-80km, lock fast and kapow.
A good ship for this would be (at least one) Artillery Hurricane or possibly Tempest (if it can lock fast enough), as shooting T2 Matari ships with just lasers is kinda like arguing with God, you gotta use kinetic and explosive damage to get through that armor.
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Originally by: Wild Rho
I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.07 23:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Tyrone Bigams
.... bet anything ryssa will show up
Hi there mate :D
Ok, I'll start of telling you some simple basics.
First of all, if you die in a nanoed up ship which is reasonable fast (4 to 5km/s) you messed up. Simply, if you play it perfect, there almost does not exist a situation in which you can die.
That said, first of all you will need ships that go as fast as they do.
You will need dampeners.
I recommend also a cloaked rapier.
Tactic:
1. Make bait
2. Decloak Rapier + Arazu (or a couple arazus)
3. Web down one of them damp them both.
4. ...
5. Profit.
However, if they are paying attention, then this will fail.
Btw @ the bait part. Use a (cloaked) interdictor. If they are to lazy to scout, pop up the bubble as soon as you see em enter local. If they are known for scouting than check if they show up on scanner. Decloak the interdictor after some seconds and launch a bubble. They will be pulled right into the bubble, where your bait can easily pwn em. Cloaked rapier or arazu would make things even easier.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.08 00:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dalanoria on 08/06/2007 00:37:21
Curse....
Curse + Pirate implants...They arent going anywhere with a mwd after a few seconds..
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:18:00 -
[8]
"nano" Arazu(s) + warp-in points far away enough for your snipers to "always hit".
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:21:00 -
[9]
Why do we alwasy have to come up with some sneaky way to kill any minmatar ship, lol. Speed tanking freaks 4thewin (not that I disaprove)
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:28:00 -
[10]
"What are we going to do today, Brain ?"
"Same thing that we always do, Pinky, same thing that we always do... bring a bigger blob !"
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: madaluap
Btw @ the bait part. Use a (cloaked) interdictor. If they are to lazy to scout, pop up the bubble as soon as you see em enter local. If they are known for scouting than check if they show up on scanner. Decloak the interdictor after some seconds and launch a bubble. They will be pulled right into the bubble, where your bait can easily pwn em. Cloaked rapier or arazu would make things even easier.
If you warp to outbound gate in system with hostiles in local without scanning you already failed really bad at pvp.
It's like one of those really important rules... scan gate and if you can't scan warp to another object and scan or waste your cap until you can warp to scanrange.
Also, as for curse, it will do nothing to nanoed up rapiers because:
1. Nanoed up rapiers are faster (assuming similar fittings/implants).
2. The rapiers have a total of probably around 4-6 damps. So curse will be dampened, dual webbed etc.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Lore Isander
Caldari
Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: madaluap
Btw @ the bait part. Use a (cloaked) interdictor. If they are to lazy to scout, pop up the bubble as soon as you see em enter local. If they are known for scouting than check if they show up on scanner. Decloak the interdictor after some seconds and launch a bubble. They will be pulled right into the bubble, where your bait can easily pwn em. Cloaked rapier or arazu would make things even easier.
If you warp to outbound gate in system with hostiles in local without scanning you already failed really bad at pvp.
It's like one of those really important rules... scan gate and if you can't scan warp to another object and scan or waste your cap until you can warp to scanrange.
Also, as for curse, it will do nothing to nanoed up rapiers because:
1. Nanoed up rapiers are faster (assuming similar fittings/implants).
2. The rapiers have a total of probably around 4-6 damps. So curse will be dampened, dual webbed etc.
It wont dual web with 6 damps nubbin 
And with dual web and 4 damps it wont scram!
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:38:00 -
[13]
He did say two rapiers, and I did say two rapiers also.
Stige, you are getting sleepy :D
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Lore Isander
Caldari
Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ryysa
He did say two rapiers, and I did say two rapiers also.
Stige, you are getting sleepy :D
I didnt read the whole post 
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Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: madaluap
Btw @ the bait part. Use a (cloaked) interdictor. If they are to lazy to scout, pop up the bubble as soon as you see em enter local. If they are known for scouting than check if they show up on scanner. Decloak the interdictor after some seconds and launch a bubble. They will be pulled right into the bubble, where your bait can easily pwn em. Cloaked rapier or arazu would make things even easier.
If you warp to outbound gate in system with hostiles in local without scanning you already failed really bad at pvp.
It's like one of those really important rules... scan gate and if you can't scan warp to another object and scan or waste your cap until you can warp to scanrange.
Also, as for curse, it will do nothing to nanoed up rapiers because:
1. Nanoed up rapiers are faster (assuming similar fittings/implants).
2. The rapiers have a total of probably around 4-6 damps. So curse will be dampened, dual webbed etc.
I was assuming 1 vs 1, my curse has, mwd, 28k scram, 3x moun sensor damp, 1x sensor booster...
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 01:49:00 -
[16]
He clearly stated it wasn't 1v1.
I know about 1v1, however if he damps you first you're really screwed :P
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Dalanoria
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Posted - 2007.06.08 02:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ryysa
He clearly stated it wasn't 1v1.
I know about 1v1, however if he damps you first you're really screwed :P
my bad, i never fully read long posts that arent interesting, sorta breeze them...
And yah, but the sensor booster makes it so i always target first
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Chavu
The Shadow Order
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.08 10:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tyrone Bigams
What is the best way for a small 3-5 man gang consisting mainly of BC an interceptor or two and BS to kill, not just tank/survive, a pair of nano-rapiers and some support if they have any.
I have found it hard to track them with guns, missile damage is negligible for them due to speed and resistances. Also getting a point on them is easy but they will just MWD away and inty who try catch them will be utterly disapointed.
Will an overwhelming number of ships have to attack them so they cant possibly web everyone. Or is this another situation heavy nos can handle.
Just looking for overall strategy and advice on how to take them out without having to gather too much of a gank squad.
.... bet anything ryssa will show up
NOS and Sensor Boosters on a BS will do it. Typhoon or Domi is good. Scorpion has a crazy long targetting range so you may have to make a weird fit so it's only good vs fast damp ships, but it should work. Stabber with 1 SB + 1 web might make a good tackler.
Really it's the Heavy NOS that'll do it, once the MWD turns off and you still have a point of scram on the Rapier, it's pretty much done for. Heavy Neuts will work better in this situation as it's immediate and has a very high cap drain.
P.S. Killing the Rapiers drones will tick them off as it's most of their damage, it will at least make them go dock and refit more drones.
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Gee Lok
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Posted - 2007.06.08 10:56:00 -
[19]
1) Get your gang to log into this forum.
2) Start a thread entitled 'nerf rapiers'
3) Post lots of replies with alts
4) Rinse and repeat until CCP nerfs rapiers
5) Kill rapiers
:p
seriously, rapiers are hard to kill when piloted by someone who knows what they are doing. Then again, they can't really do any damage if you know what you are doing.
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Franconis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:17:00 -
[20]
Easy.
Rapier + Arazu is all you need.
your rapier decloaks first to try to aggro their first lock and web cycles. About 3 seconds after that, the arazu decloaks. The arazu then puts 2 damps on each raper, which should be enough to get them to between 10 and 13km targeting range. The arazu also puts a disruptor on each target. The damps will break their locks at this point, so the arazu is free to chase them. Your rapier already has a web or two on each of them, and is also free to chase once the locks are broken. Call one of em primary and focus your fire, then pop the other one at your leisure. If you do it right, they shouldn't even scratch your armor.
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Gallente FTW |
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Franconis
Easy.
Rapier + Arazu is all you need.
your rapier decloaks first to try to aggro their first lock and web cycles. About 3 seconds after that, the arazu decloaks. The arazu then puts 2 damps on each raper, which should be enough to get them to between 10 and 13km targeting range. The arazu also puts a disruptor on each target. The damps will break their locks at this point, so the arazu is free to chase them. Your rapier already has a web or two on each of them, and is also free to chase once the locks are broken. Call one of em primary and focus your fire, then pop the other one at your leisure. If you do it right, they shouldn't even scratch your armor.
First of all, your rapier will get totally damped down and dual webbed, then they will just burn away and warp out when they see arazu also.
Why do you assume all people are stupid?
You can kill stupid people in much easier way, there's no way in hell any smart people will get killed by this.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Franconis
Easy.
Rapier + Arazu is all you need.
your rapier decloaks first to try to aggro their first lock and web cycles. About 3 seconds after that, the arazu decloaks. The arazu then puts 2 damps on each raper, which should be enough to get them to between 10 and 13km targeting range. The arazu also puts a disruptor on each target. The damps will break their locks at this point, so the arazu is free to chase them. Your rapier already has a web or two on each of them, and is also free to chase once the locks are broken. Call one of em primary and focus your fire, then pop the other one at your leisure. If you do it right, they shouldn't even scratch your armor.
First of all, your rapier will get totally damped down and dual webbed, then they will just burn away and warp out when they see arazu also.
Why do you assume all people are stupid?
You can kill stupid people in much easier way, there's no way in hell any smart people will get killed by this.
Not to mention arazu will have delay of like 4 sec before it can lock, so if the two rapiers have any communication, one of them just damps the arazu before it gets a lock on anything, and both your arazu and rapier will die :)
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ryysa
Also, as for curse, it will do nothing to nanoed up rapiers because:
1. Nanoed up rapiers are faster (assuming similar fittings/implants).
2. The rapiers have a total of probably around 4-6 damps. So curse will be dampened, dual webbed etc.
From what the OP writes it seems though that they are only relying on their speed to avoid damage and do not use dampeners. If that is the case a curse should do fine vs them. Of cource, if they have half a brain they most likely won't engage/come closer than 40k if they see one.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:45:00 -
[24]
Two rapiers will *****a nanocurse though, because curse can't damp both of them down and if it gets webbed it is veeery vulnerable.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Dionisius
Gallente
LEGI0N
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Franconis
Easy.
Rapier + Arazu is all you need.
your rapier decloaks first to try to aggro their first lock and web cycles. About 3 seconds after that, the arazu decloaks. The arazu then puts 2 damps on each raper, which should be enough to get them to between 10 and 13km targeting range. The arazu also puts a disruptor on each target. The damps will break their locks at this point, so the arazu is free to chase them. Your rapier already has a web or two on each of them, and is also free to chase once the locks are broken. Call one of em primary and focus your fire, then pop the other one at your leisure. If you do it right, they shouldn't even scratch your armor.
First of all, your rapier will get totally damped down and dual webbed, then they will just burn away and warp out when they see arazu also.
Why do you assume all people are stupid?
You can kill stupid people in much easier way, there's no way in hell any smart people will get killed by this.
Not to mention arazu will have delay of like 4 sec before it can lock, so if the two rapiers have any communication, one of them just damps the arazu before it gets a lock on anything, and both your arazu and rapier will die :)
You seem sooo sure of it.
_______________________
What we have here is total lack of respect for the law...
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:01:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2007 12:08:20
Originally by: Ryysa
Two rapiers will *****a nanocurse though, because curse can't damp both of them down and if it gets webbed it is veeery vulnerable.
Yes. But I wasn't referring it as single ship but as part of a small 3-5 man gang as the OP said.
And I wouldn't be too sure even about 2 rapiers vs 1 nanocurse, rapier dps isn't too great and within 30 seconds neither rapier will have any cap left to use webs. Still wouldn't really engage them alone unless it's unavoidable.
An alternative if they use dampeners would be a simple celestis. Rapiers should plain out have no free slot for a sensor booster with a dampener outfit (and even if they have one a celestis will lock faster with a boost. 2 damps with ship and spec on 4 on each rapier and they will have a ~17k targetting range each. And will need 46 seconds to lock that celestis once they get that close. 30 secs if they have a sensor booster.
About the same times to lock a stiletto WITH an active t2 MWD (and inty skill lvl 4).
Which should give you plenty of time to tackle them with multiple ships (assuming you have 1-2 other ships (preferably some with good dps at 10-20k, MWDs and webs & scram of their own)).
Of cource, they can avoid that simply by not coming close and retreating instead.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dionisius
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Franconis
Easy.
Rapier + Arazu is all you need.
your rapier decloaks first to try to aggro their first lock and web cycles. About 3 seconds after that, the arazu decloaks. The arazu then puts 2 damps on each raper, which should be enough to get them to between 10 and 13km targeting range. The arazu also puts a disruptor on each target. The damps will break their locks at this point, so the arazu is free to chase them. Your rapier already has a web or two on each of them, and is also free to chase once the locks are broken. Call one of em primary and focus your fire, then pop the other one at your leisure. If you do it right, they shouldn't even scratch your armor.
First of all, your rapier will get totally damped down and dual webbed, then they will just burn away and warp out when they see arazu also.
Why do you assume all people are stupid?
You can kill stupid people in much easier way, there's no way in hell any smart people will get killed by this.
Not to mention arazu will have delay of like 4 sec before it can lock, so if the two rapiers have any communication, one of them just damps the arazu before it gets a lock on anything, and both your arazu and rapier will die :)
You seem sooo sure of it.
Yeh ryssa is using a bit to much theory here. let me use my theory. 10 second timer on a damp. Onoes how to damp the arazu when you are allready dampening something else, or you might be busy with the +5 targets that are allready trying to kill your huggin.
Simply doesnt work like that.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.08 12:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: madaluap
Yeh ryssa is using a bit to much theory here. let me use my theory. 10 second timer on a damp. Onoes how to damp the arazu when you are allready dampening something else, or you might be busy with the +5 targets that are allready trying to kill your huggin.
Simply doesnt work like that.
If both use 3 damps only one of them will damp the enemy rapier since that is totally sufficient to disable it. Leaving 3 damps free for the arazu.
And the person with the rapier + arazu example was speaking only of these 2 ships. At least that was my impression.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:17:00 -
[29]
Your best bet would be some fast interceptors with EW support so they dont get webbed + gunned down. Maybe something like a couple of crows + a couple of blackbirds/celestis.
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Gaius Vitellius
Minmatar
Blackwater Consulting
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: madaluap
Yeh ryssa is using a bit to much theory here. let me use my theory. 10 second timer on a damp. Onoes how to damp the arazu when you are allready dampening something else, or you might be busy with the +5 targets that are allready trying to kill your huggin.
Simply doesnt work like that.
First let me state that I have no connection to the Dual-Rapier ships harassing the OP.. That being said.
Ryysa isn't spouting theory. When the wife and I hunt as a Dual-Rapier pair we commonly both fit 2 damps + 2 damp rigs + spec skill 4... The first rule is to only use enough damps to break the lock, which is normally 2 per BS sized target. The Arazu decloaking would get a nice gift of 2 damps + web + a free scram (as a bonus). Or the Rapiers would just leave.
A good Nano-Rapier pilot is going to be hard to pin down honestly. The moment they see a real threat, they will leave.. And Bait/Ambush rarely works on seasoned Recon Pilots (Bait/Ambush is their bread and butter). Your best bet is to get your own Recons (or hire some) or use a large amount of EW + Fast ships. You still may not be able to pop them, but they won't be able to hang around either.
Of course a ship with a decent tank would take FOREVER for even a pair of Rapiers to kill.. They just do not have the DPS (or the NOS bonus) to break tanks quickly.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:12:00 -
[31]
Just a few interceptors and some EW cruisers and you shouldnt have a prob.
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Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:31:00 -
[32]
Sensor boosters and drones and a bit of tank? Have you tried Dual 650s?
I'm just guessing, I have no experience with those ships...
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Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:42:00 -
[33]
Whatever you were using before + one falcon (+ 1 arazu)
Falcon uncloaks when the fight has started and jams both rapiers fairly easily using 5 racials.
The hard part is timing the jamming with scrambling being done by others, as they'll just run if you miss that.
Fitting every ship you've got that can spare a medslot (after web and 20km scram) with a damp will help too.
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Gilded Goose Brokerages
Trading to order. |
Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.09 12:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Franconis
note that I said to wait a few seconds before decloaking the arazu, this is to get them to put their damps and webs on the rapier instead. while it's possible that in a 2v2 environment they could get the first damps off, it's unlikely due to the time it takes to shut off thier damps. Your rapier should have damps as well, so if they take their damps off him for a moment he can just damp em back and it's game over. It would essentially be a damp war, and if you play it properly you can win.
Look, at start only one of the two rapiers needs to dampen your rapier, it will also be enough.
if one of the two gets damped before he can use the damps, the second one will dampen it...
So in that case there will always be 2+ damps available to instantly stick on the decloaking arazu.
Quote:
If you're really worried about thier damps, bring a falcon or vagabond to the fight. The vagabond can act as bait, which when combined with your rapier will occupy all of their damps. Of course your vagabond engages first, then rapier, then arazu. Fit the vaga with a few LSEIIs in the mids and it should be able to ignore the rapiers long enough. The falcon can sit at 200km or so and throw minmatar racial jams without worries about being damped because it's WAY out of damping range. Oh but the rapiers are fast right? Well if they get jammed or deactivate a single damp, then either your rapier or your arazu hits em with ewar and the falcon gets away to jam again.
Well, this is good theory, but in practice u are never going to have all that stuff in the same place, unless you have ESP and know that they will be coming exactly to that place.
Not to mention the simple fact that because your rapier / arazu will most likely be damped, they will just leg it when a ****load of other stuff decloaks. They'd be stupid to stick around and be ganked.
Quote:
I fly an arazu, and I'm training up for a rapier. Both are incredible ships but both can be beaten. It all depends on who gets the first lock, then keeps the lock and the range. It's harder than it sounds, especially when you're outnumbered.
You don't fight outnumbered with nanoships against multiple EW ships and webbers. That's the general idea.
You can fight outnumbered vs bigger stuff like battleships and battlecruisers. But if they have a ton of EW, then you lose your advantage totally, and engaging is suicide.
Quote:
Now, all of that being said, 2 rapiers + an arazu is just pure evil. Add recons and vagabonds to taste, mabye a command ship if you want some damage output.
Actually 1 curse and 1 huginn is better.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
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