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Lysenko Alland
Directed Evolution Corp
2
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Posted - 2012.01.03 20:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
A few days ago, I was running a DED complex in a 0.4 security system and noticed that someone who had just hopped into local was trying to scan me down.
I had a few safe spots bookmarked that were maybe 20 AU apart from each other, though not very good ones, since they were on lines between celestials and probably too close to celestials as well. I started hopping between them, watching d-scan pretty carefully. There were a few people in local from the same alliance, so I presumed they were probably working together.
After a few minutes of this, I noticed that two of the safes seemed to have 8 combat probes showing up on D-scan, and one had two probes visible. So, I took a chance and warped near a celestial so I could drop another bookmark and add that to my rounds.
At some point, right as I landed at one of those spots, a Cynabal jumped in on me and pointed me, which led shortly to losing my ship.
My questions are:
1) I get the sense from what I was seeing on d-scan that maybe two of the people after me were scanning for me, because I was seeing multiple combat scanner probes near two different safe spots separated by 20 or so AU. Is there a common tactic for coordinating scanning between multiple people to flush out someone doing what I was doing? Or is it more likely that one person was just moving their probes around rapidly to locate a couple of spots where they'd seen me on earlier full-system scans? Or maybe they were aggressively using d-scans to make educated guesses about where I was sitting, in combination with their scan results?
2) Assuming for the moment that I didn't simply want to jump out of the system and take a break, which in this case likely would have saved my ship -- are there preparations I could make in terms of setting up bookmarks that might greatly increase my security?
I'm kind of interested in both ends of this thing -- what I can do better to avoid getting killed, and what I might be able to do on the scanning end of things in a small group to deal with a target who's doing what I was trying to do.
Edit: No whining here, it was an interesting experience. I probably should have hit up the people who got me for any info they might share about what they were doing (and maybe I still will) but I'm also interested in what tactics are common out there. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
325
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
If someone usually is trying hard enough to probe me down and chase me through a system or two i usually just say fk it and log off. Its not worth my time. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
99
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not all that great with the PVP'r's tactics. I am more often on your side of the fight.
So I have no clue if they had 2 probers or not. Seems plausible. But good combat probers, i have found, are often really really good (I have been practicing).
one tactic that should help buy time is not warp to 0 to your safe every time. Vary it up. There is a better chance then if they get a lock and warp to it hoping to catch you, you will land outside point range and have a chance.
Ultimately IMHO, in your situation you really had 2 choices.
1. Try and leave the system.
2. Fit a cloak, safe and cloak up until they leave.
You can try and log, but if probes were already out, they would have a good chance of catching your ship before it logged.
|
Pinaculus
Insanely Twisted
128
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
The best way to foil combat probes is to go somewhere that's easy to find, preferably with large guns that shoot anyone that messes with you. Then they've done all the probing for nothing, and they get killed by NPCs.
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
816
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
best practice, use a throwaway ss, burn to a celestial and if busted, remove the bookmark.... better than burning all your ss by jumping about.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
-áGÖÑ New Years Resolution ~ Cease thy Smacktalk GÖÑ |
Kaanchana
Rocket Rajas
155
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 21:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
All u need is one good safe. You should've warped at 100 to it and log off asap. Or you could've logged in warp.
But in your case, it was likely there was more than 1 prober, at least 2 imo. They could easily guess where the safespots are most likely to be if they are familiar with the system and cover the general areas with 4 probes each. They only need the scan cycle to end to get a warp in if you happen to be there. Not an easy task to do as far as my scanning skills are concerned. But hey may be its your bad luck.
Next time cloak or log. |
Lysenko Alland
Directed Evolution Corp
2
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Posted - 2012.01.03 22:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks so much for the replies. It helps to get a sense for what's possible and what's not worth the effort.
|
L0rdF1end
STA'IN
AFFLICTION.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 22:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
The problem is with the amount of safes you had.
All they needed to do was scan one location over and over again waiting for you to bounce back to that safe each time until they hit 100%. Depending on the size of your ship that can be done pretty quickly with high skills and dedication.
Best to take a cloak or everytime you warp to a safe make a new one.
gl. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
286
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 23:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
When I have scanners trying to bust my ass (assuming I am somewhere that requires probes to locate) I keep doing my stuff until there are at least four probes within 1AU, checking DS regularly of course. Then I warp somewhere (safespot if I have one or just near a random celestial if not) and pop a semi-safe spot on the way. Then I head back to that semi-safe spot and hang there for a while.
If they're determined and I see probes starting to home-in on me again, I just repeat the process, building a set of disposable semi-safe spots as i go. If I am forced to re-use a potentially compromised bookmark then I warp-to not at zero, but at some distance ... just a little added safety margin.
Unlike other posters I tend to hang around if I have very determined or skilled scanners chasing me. I see it as a cat-and-mouse game heavily biased in my favour and in taking up their time, as they fruitlessly try and get a fix on me, I am doing a community service of having them not off griefing other ppl. That's my feeble rationalisation anyways :-)
The classic gotcha here is when they've pre-scanned the system and can warp directly to my site without deploying probes. When that happens I rely on my DS, seeing their ship, and my practice of trying to move away from the warp-in spot to run the site.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
Skunk Works.
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 00:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well first, sure a guy can drop many probes at once. I think the maximum is like 8 but it could be more....I forget.
The logoffsky thing works but make sure you've got 0 aggro on you at the time. Otherwise a good scanner can nail you down before your ship warps and then you'll log back in to a probe rather than a ship...if you're lucky.
Also, throw a cloak in a high. Better to loose a touch DPS than a ship. Warp to safe, cloak...it's even better than logoff because then you get to watch them spend forever trying to track you down.
If you've ant inty with you let them haul ass in front and just keep warping to them. |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 01:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's easy to make a ton of new BM's while in warp, so there's really no reason to ever reuse prior BM's. (even if you're only 100kk off, it'll take another probe cycle) When in doubt, warp to prior BM's at varying ranges to add that extra margin of safety, and keep in mind that you are at your most vulnerable when dropping OUT of warp (you're stuck in the same spot until you decelerate and align fully to somewhere else) and you're comparatively much safer when in a disposable safe and aligned to another safe.
Even with multiple probers after you, if you don't reuse safes (abuse celestials, especially moons, to create new safes on the fly if you need to, they won't have tackle at every celestial) and don't have any connection issues you're practically impossible to catch while at the keyboard. Of course this is :effort: which is why it's almost always better to log/cloak/leave, but if you're up for cat and mouse you can keep it up indefinitely. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Narwhals Ate My Duck
81
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 02:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Easiest method on avoiding probers is every time you warp, make a new safe and never reuse safes.
If it's in HS or you know there are no hostile POSs around, warping to random moons is a great way to make fresh safes after youre already being hunted.
That said, yeah youre gonna need to just log off if the probers are persistent.
tho it is great fun to bounce safes and watch inept kspace probers fail at probing :P |
Mutnin
Mutineers
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you are stuck with aggro and can't log off and only have 2 or 3 SS's to bounce from just create new ones each time u warp prior to landing at the original. You can then warp back to that safe spot at 100km and align out and do the same in the other direction.
Long as you keep moving they simply wont have time to catch you unless you are flying a dread or something ridiculous. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 05:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:If you are stuck with aggro and can't log off and only have 2 or 3 SS's to bounce from just create new ones each time u warp prior to landing at the original. You can then warp back to that safe spot at 100km and align out and do the same in the other direction.
Long as you keep moving they simply wont have time to catch you unless you are flying a dread or something ridiculous.
This, exactly. Then rename your ship to 'bouncing safes' and do just that, making a new one each warp. Once you get like 20 SS or so, you can stop making new ones. They will get bored and leave quickly (unless you taunt them in local). Maybe I have gone against fail probers, but I have never been probed down using this method.
Logging off is risky even without aggro, so dont do that in a blingy ship that you dont want to lose. I am a fail prober, but I have seen people who seem like they have a cheat because they do it so fast.
And dont log with agression now. We had a prober with us a few nights ago who did an excellent job and scanned down 2 Canes and a Brutix that logged with aggro. One guy logged back in just as we were killing his ship, so the less upstanding members of our fleet got his pod too. :) |
Mutnin
Mutineers
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 06:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Mutnin wrote:If you are stuck with aggro and can't log off and only have 2 or 3 SS's to bounce from just create new ones each time u warp prior to landing at the original. You can then warp back to that safe spot at 100km and align out and do the same in the other direction.
Long as you keep moving they simply wont have time to catch you unless you are flying a dread or something ridiculous. This, exactly. Then rename your ship to 'bouncing safes' and do just that, making a new one each warp. Once you get like 20 SS or so, you can stop making new ones. They will get bored and leave quickly (unless you taunt them in local). Maybe I have gone against fail probers, but I have never been probed down using this method. Logging off is risky even without aggro, so dont do that in a blingy ship that you dont want to lose. I am a fail prober, but I have seen people who seem like they have a cheat because they do it so fast. And dont log with agression now. We had a prober with us a few nights ago who did an excellent job and scanned down 2 Canes and a Brutix that logged with aggro. One guy logged back in just as we were killing his ship, so the less upstanding members of our fleet got his pod too. :)
Renaming your ship does nothing to a competent prober as your ship sig ID will still remain the same until you log off. There are lots of little tricks but I'm not giving mine away to my WT's. 
I will say tonight I was already sitting on your buddies Tornado in Nenn prior to those Ruptures landing. In fact I was getting a kick at how long it was taking them to probe him out. I was just waiting on the gang you guys had on other side of gate to warp somewhere so I could shoot the Tornado with out any silliness of a gank gang ruining my fun . The tarded Ruptures ruined that for me.. 
|
Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 06:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
When I run up against folk like you who bounce between safes, often I just keep my probes over one of the safes, wait to get a 100% hit there, then warp to the hit. Sure, you're gone by the time I get there, but more often than not if I just wait you bounce right back into my clutches.
Best thing to do to avoid probers is to bore them. Cloak up, dock up, or log off.
|
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Mutnin wrote:If you are stuck with aggro and can't log off and only have 2 or 3 SS's to bounce from just create new ones each time u warp prior to landing at the original. You can then warp back to that safe spot at 100km and align out and do the same in the other direction.
Long as you keep moving they simply wont have time to catch you unless you are flying a dread or something ridiculous. This, exactly. Then rename your ship to 'bouncing safes' and do just that, making a new one each warp. Once you get like 20 SS or so, you can stop making new ones. They will get bored and leave quickly (unless you taunt them in local). Maybe I have gone against fail probers, but I have never been probed down using this method. Logging off is risky even without aggro, so dont do that in a blingy ship that you dont want to lose. I am a fail prober, but I have seen people who seem like they have a cheat because they do it so fast. And dont log with agression now. We had a prober with us a few nights ago who did an excellent job and scanned down 2 Canes and a Brutix that logged with aggro. One guy logged back in just as we were killing his ship, so the less upstanding members of our fleet got his pod too. :)
Here you go:http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12031712
They were definitely doing it wrong. And who are you calling "less than upstanding"?! In general logging off in space is a very bad idea, if someone has you on short scan after logging off it shouldn't take longer than 20-30 sec to find the ship with probes deployed.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Mutnin
Mutineers
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote:Here you go: http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12031712They were definitely doing it wrong. And who are you calling "less than upstanding"?! In general logging off in space is a very bad idea, if someone has you on short scan after logging off it shouldn't take longer than 20-30 sec to find the ship with probes deployed.
That's why if you do log off in space, you do so while in warp to a new SS. Sure you will still land in the SS you warped to, but it's very unlikely anyone with catch you. I will say there are some screwy things going off with logging in space and I'd think twice about doing it unless there was no other choice.
Last night I was camping a plex gate cloaked up waiting for one of you Qcats. My client crashed while sitting off the plex gate about 30km. Now you are supposed to stay in space for 1 min then do an emergency warp to a SS with-in 1,000 KM of your last position then sit in that spot for 1 more min before you actually leave local and your ship disappears.
I sat there and watched myself in local for at least 3 to 4 mins after I crashed before my ship uncloaked and warped to the SS starting the next 1 min cycle which my ship finally disappeared. Instead of taking 2 mins as it should if you have no aggro it instead took a total of 5 mins.
All this time except for the last min after it warped, my ship was sitting there in space cloaked (luckily). After I crashed several of you Qcats landed on the gate and after they saw me emergency warp off decided to camp it thinking I'd log back in for a freebie kill. (That wasn't gonna happen )
Now I dunno if CCP changed the log off mechanics as I've been out of game for a while and maybe I missed some update, but I would of been totally screwed due to a client crash had I not been in a cloaky ship. The way the client randomly disconnects these days it's like every time you undock you are at risk of losing your ship to bad game code rather than your own fault. |
Garbad theWeak
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
How to avoid probes:
Fit your ship to be de facto unprobable (tengu is best, but some others work)
OR
1. Fit a cloak. A lot of ships can do this with little cost.
2. If you see probes on dcan, warp to a safe and cloak. Then go grab a snack. Only the most dedicated pirates will still be there. If they are, go watch a movie, and be sure to stop back every hour or so to comment in local so they waste their own time. A few hours of this and they will leave.
OR
As soon as you see probes, warp to station (low sec) or a safe (0.0) and log out.
Really the bear holds all the cards. |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ships can no longer be fitted to unprobable. Granted it is more difficult, with decent skills and a good setup you can find any uncloaked ship.
ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
X Gallentius
CTRL-Q
93
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:
Last night I was camping a plex gate cloaked up waiting for one of you Qcats. My client crashed while sitting off the plex gate about 30km. Now you are supposed to stay in space for 1 min then do an emergency warp to a SS with-in 1,000 KM of your last position then sit in that spot for 1 more min before you actually leave local and your ship disappears.
....
Blame chatgris. He cheats.
|
Mutnin
Mutineers
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Mutnin wrote:
Last night I was camping a plex gate cloaked up waiting for one of you Qcats. My client crashed while sitting off the plex gate about 30km. Now you are supposed to stay in space for 1 min then do an emergency warp to a SS with-in 1,000 KM of your last position then sit in that spot for 1 more min before you actually leave local and your ship disappears.
....
Blame chatgris. He cheats.
So do I, because I sat there watching them camping the gate and only logged back in once they left. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
108
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 20:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Meh.... I always viewed logging off as somehow poor sportsmanship.
Bouncing between safes is generally a good way to go.
When making "new" safes, warp to moons (assuming your in a ship that can warp out before a pos can lock you), customs offices, and belt clusters. Planets are too obvious.
If you see a combat probe ON GRID, it means the enemy has already been to that safe.
Don't warp to stuff at zero.... warp to it at 70 or 100 km's.
|
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 23:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Renaming your ship does nothing to a competent prober as your ship sig ID will still remain the same until you log off. There are lots of little tricks but I'm not giving mine away to my WT's. I will say tonight I was already sitting on your corp mates Tornado in Nenn prior to those Ruptures landing. In fact I was getting a kick at how long it was taking them to probe him out. I was just waiting on the gang you guys had on other side of gate to warp somewhere so I could shoot the Tornado with out any silliness of a gank gang ruining my fun . The tarded Ruptures ruined that for me..
Yeah, the renaming ship thing has no tactical significance, it just lets them know you are awake and actively bouncing safes.
And I was sure you were with those neutral Ruptures! I had no idea they spoiled your fun. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 03:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fidelium Mortis wrote:Ships can no longer be fitted to unprobable. Granted it is more difficult, with decent skills and a good setup you can find any uncloaked ship.
You need max skills and virtue implant set to probe down an eccmed t3. Otherwise you will have a very hard time scanning them down.
This removes 99% of combat probers out there. |
Mutnin
Mutineers
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 11:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hrett wrote:
And I was sure you were with those neutral Ruptures! I had no idea they spoiled your fun.
Na wasn't with them, I just shot a few torps at him when they attacked in hopes of whoring the mail if he died, being they spoiled my fun.
TBH, I was suspecting he was just playing bait, because those guys had probes out for at least 6 or 7 mins so I know he had to of seen them if he was looking. |
Cameron Freerunner
Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 19:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Depending on the prober's skills and your sig, there are a lot of variables to account for. Personally, I assume that all probers I encounter have max skills (RL and in game) and that they're actively looking for me in particular. Many probers will use a deep space probe to get an idea of where you are in the system without getting their combat probes into your d-scan range. Then they zero in on you with the combat probes, working their way in on your location as close as possible before their probes are on your d-scan. If you have a large enough sig, they don't have to get very close to you to get 100% hit. It would probably be safer not to assume "i won't run until its XX AU away" unless you're in one of those 'mostly' unprobeable ships.
Before you begin running sites/missions/whatever in a potentially hostile system, you shoud setup a nice bunch of safes. You can never really have too many and they're easy to make. Consider warping between the two most distant celestials and making as many safes as possible before you land. Then, when you have to run from a prober, warp to the first safe in the line, and continue warping to the next and the next etc. The time it will take you to get back into warp will be minimal, since your alignment is exactly the same. If you setup multiple lines you can keep moving indefinitely like that. It's unlikely they'll probe out one of the safe's, but if they do you won't be coming back to it any time soon. If they just won't leave and docking, jumping out of system, pos'ing up, or cloaking aren't viable options, when you get to the last safe in the line(s) warp back to the first (or some other safe or distant spot) and log out while you're still in warp. Its not the best solution if there are hordes of probers and you're in a fat, slow ship, but your odds of successfully emergency warping before you're probed out are pretty good. |
snake03
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 05:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Fidelium Mortis wrote:Ships can no longer be fitted to unprobable. Granted it is more difficult, with decent skills and a good setup you can find any uncloaked ship. You need max skills and virtue implant set to probe down an eccmed t3. Otherwise you will have a very hard time scanning them down. This removes 99% of combat probers out there.
Yes, but you have to assume that the combat probes you are seeing on your D-scan are from the 1%
I'm just a modern day caveman in search of a bigger club. |
Kara Books
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
85
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 11:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
I begin to drain my own cap in every way I can, then start half ass warping around making new safespots till I pull myself together and actually get on top of the situation. |
Khanh'rhh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
632
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 12:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
If the prober is poor enough that it takes him more than 5 seconds with probes out to get a hit, then he deserves to be messed with.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Ezra Tair
Murientor Tribe
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
1) Go to a random object in space, a safe or w/e.
2) Align to something else non-obvious. Go full speed, if you can run a prop mod forever, do so.
3) Warp at a random range to the non-obvious things (Bookmark, cluster of things, ya know whatever), if anyone warps to your grid.
4) Repeat Steps 1 though 4 as needed.
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VaMei
Meafi Corp
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 16:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Meh.... I always viewed logging off as somehow poor sportsmanship.
Agreed. If someone can catch me, they deserve the kill.
IMO, if loosing your ship is enough of a problem for you that you feel the need to log off in order to save it, you're either flying the wrong ship for your wallet, or playing the wrong game for your playstyle.
|
Soldarius
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
132
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 08:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Any safespot within 2 AUs (4 if you're nasty) of anything in system is a bad safe, unless you're cloaked. In which case it simply doesn't matter. So best bet is to cloak up.
And that narrowing down with multiple probe scans thing is rubbish for combat probing. A good scan/prober will use d-scan to narrow you down, then drop probes right on your head for the one-shot lock.
I still miss the one-shot lock about half the time. Usually when the target is off the ecliptic.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
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