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Are you a carrier pilot, or do you depend on one for your stuff?

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Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 23:53:00 - [1] Then PLEASE for the love of god and everything holy in your life bug CCP for any sort of REAL anwers to this thread.... PLEASE Linkage __________________________________________
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:04:00 - [2] I was all happy just about to goto sleep i can'nt believe they nerfing the only good thing about carriers :( Join The Fight With Promo Today
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:07:00 - [3] Originally by: sableye I was all happy just about to goto sleep i can'nt believe they nerfing the only good thing about carriers :( I haven't confirmed it because im lazy but it does appear someone worked out the math and a Revelation (Amarr dread) can actually fit more stuff then the carriers now. Granted fuel costs are double, but its still kinda sad ;( This is my crying CCP, this is your fault. __________________________________________
Steve Holt coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:29:00 - [4] a rev can carry a packed BS. Also your wrong the hoel fighters think is a big plus ofr carriers there not just haulers.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Steve Holt a rev can carry a packed BS. Also your wrong the hoel fighters think is a big plus ofr carriers there not just haulers. just ahsame figthers are so expensive and so easy to lose. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Admus Mobius Construct Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:47:00 - [6] Originally by: sableye just ahsame figthers are so expensive and so easy to lose. Dear God, man, it's a capital ship! Of course fighters are expensive! ---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way."
l3lind Man Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 00:50:00 - [7] I use a freighter \o/
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 01:11:00 - [8] My GOD, carriers will only be able to haul 70% of what they could before! This will make logistics efforts approximately 30% harder! IT IS THE END OF DAYS!!!!!! <sig> IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. Join my Corporation! [Orange]Can I lock
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.14 01:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Tarminic My GOD, carriers will only be able to haul 70% of what they could before! This will make logistics efforts approximately 30% harder! IT IS THE END OF DAYS!!!!!! The problem is that in order to load the carrier, you need to either have a player with you to load the iteron, or you have to eject from the carrier. Its not the size that matters so much. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 01:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Tarminic My GOD, carriers will only be able to haul 70% of what they could before! This will make logistics efforts approximately 30% harder! IT IS THE END OF DAYS!!!!!! The problem is that in order to load the carrier, you need to either have a player with you to load the iteron, or you have to eject from the carrier. Its not the size that matters so much. Ah, that makes a bit more sense now actually - I was wondering what the big deal was for a 30% loss (seemed relatively small logistically-speaking). <sig> IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. Join my Corporation!
Maraude Fury Minmatar Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.14 01:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Tarminic Ah, that makes a bit more sense now actually - I was wondering what the big deal was for a 30% loss (seemed relatively small logistically-speaking). Lets increase your weekly work week by 30% and see if't it's no big deal. This means that carrier pilots are going to have to do 30% MORE carrier runs each week then they did before. That means 30% more fuel for the carrier, 30% more fuel for the Cyno's, 30% more hauling of fuel in empire... Trust me. If your corp relies on carriers for supply, you're going to see a 30% higher burn out in your logistics departments. For me, it means I'll go from 15 carrier runs a week to 20. That's almost an extra 2 hrs a week i'll have to spend to do the same amount of work. That means 2hrs less each week haveing fun pvping. Trust me. It IS a big deal. Maraude Fury Shadow Of The Light .SOL.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 01:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Tarminic My GOD, carriers will only be able to haul 70% of what they could before! This will make logistics efforts approximately 30% harder! IT IS THE END OF DAYS!!!!!! The problem is that in order to load the carrier, you need to either have a player with you to load the iteron, or you have to eject from the carrier. Its not the size that matters so much. Ah, that makes a bit more sense now actually - I was wondering what the big deal was for a 30% loss (seemed relatively small logistically-speaking). Its not only that, the ability to sort peoples stuff when you are jumping it for them is now gone... So if you want to jump 5-6 peoples stuff you now have to write it all down. On top of that, you can no longer use courier contracts to sort it because they cannot be loaded into the indy ships as well... __________________________________________
Nyabi Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.14 02:00:00 - [13] Curious, what did logistics do before carriers?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.14 02:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Nyabi Curious, what did logistics do before carriers? In the time before carriers, the number of POSs being run in 0.0 was drastically lower; there was far less logistics to do. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.06.14 02:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Nyabi Curious, what did logistics do before carriers? Walked up hill both ways in neck deep snow and liked it damn it. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 02:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari Agreed, this reminds me of freighters before freighter cans... we're definitely going backwards here tbfh I care more about organization then I do about total capacity, that and the ability to run courier missions for people without carriers. This will just force more people to get thier own carriers ;( __________________________________________
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.14 02:53:00 - [17] wait, let me get this straight... from what it sounds like, carriers do not use their own cargo holds at all, but rather the cargo holds of ships stored within the carrier's hangar? (i know, i am a noob when it comes to carriers) if anything, this method of transporting goods borders on unintended use of game mechanics... of course, i realise that there really isn't any other way to transport large amounts of materials using cynos. so it's similar to jetcan mining in that we abuse the mechanic because we have no other choice. and likewise, if they nerfed jetcans to limit the use of that adaptation of game mechanics, we would get similar complaints. but it's still ironic that in either case, we would be complaining about not being able to use something for a task that it was never designed for in the first place. and it strongly indicates that such adaptations have become "normal", despite how wonky it is. clearly this very fact is a clear indication that CCP has failed to meet the needs of the players in that area. basically, if we have to resort to "workarounds" to get things done, and then they nerf those too, what do we have left? follow the apparent "intended" design?? and just what is that? only use GSC's for mining? fuel all your stations with freighters or industrials? clearly, there is a severe lack of capabilities in a number of areas and CCP has ignored them for far too long. and we are partly to blame because we found nifty "workarounds" that quickly became "normal" and we were happy using them... until they decided to nerf it. ahhh but now consider some of the new features also to be coming soon(tm): Quote: New Starbase Structures A range of new Starbase structured designed to grease the wheels of your war machine. Twinned Jump Arrays (similar to a Jump Bridge, and used for rapid redeployment of strategic assets of the ôpew pewö variety), Scanning Arrays (gives you a better picture of whatÆs going in the system), Cynosural Generators (allows you to rapidly recall your capitals to certain systems without needing a mobile generator at the destination) and Cynosural Jammers (to suppress the formation of cynosural fields within certain volumes) may all be making an appearance. The pirate factions have also been busy, reverse-engineering starbase structures for their own endsà if i am reading that correctly, it looks like you will be able to network stations to eachother and cyno goods accross your empire faster than ever before. so there will no longer be as great a need for carriers to act as "capital haulers". now if only they could offer a true solution to jetcan mining... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 03:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Alora Venoda wait, let me get this straight... from what it sounds like, carriers do not use their own cargo holds at all, but rather the cargo holds of ships stored within the carrier's hangar? (i know, i am a noob when it comes to carriers) if anything, this method of transporting goods borders on unintended use of game mechanics... of course, i realise that there really isn't any other way to transport large amounts of materials using cynos. so it's similar to jetcan mining in that we abuse the mechanic because we have no other choice. and likewise, if they nerfed jetcans to limit the use of that adaptation of game mechanics, we would get similar complaints. but it's still ironic that in either case, we would be complaining about not being able to use something for a task that it was never designed for in the first place. and it strongly indicates that such adaptations have become "normal", despite how wonky it is. clearly this very fact is a clear indication that CCP has failed to meet the needs of the players in that area. basically, if we have to resort to "workarounds" to get things done, and then they nerf those too, what do we have left? follow the apparent "intended" design?? and just what is that? only use GSC's for mining? fuel all your stations with freighters or industrials? clearly, there is a severe lack of capabilities in a number of areas and CCP has ignored them for far too long. and we are partly to blame because we found nifty "workarounds" that quickly became "normal" and we were happy using them... until they decided to nerf it. Carriers have a ship maintenance bay and a cargo bay. The cargo bay is 10K m3 and is used for fuel. The ship maintenance bay can only accept assembled ships, it cannot accept packaged ships. It accepts them however they are fit and with whatever contents they may contain. This is used for rapid deployment of ships in space or more commonly used for filling up haulers and then loading them into the ship bay. Whats changing now however is that ships that go into the ship bay cannot have any containers in them. This includes small containers (used for blueprints or ammo maybe) all the way up to GSC's (used for sorting stuff inside your hauler) and courier packages (the plastic wrapped stuff you get when you accept a courier mission.) This means you can no longer sort your stuff out, or that of other players. You can no longer haul others goods for them using a courier mission and you can no longer load your industrial without being in it. Before you were able to double click your indy, and then load stuff right into the GSC's now you actually have to board the ship (otherwise you dont get your cargo space boosted skills) and it adds at least 120 seconds per jump (the 30 second delay between ships and docking/undocking). On top of that alot of capital pilots dont have the skills to fly the bigger haulers (not my issue I trained all the industrial skills ;p ) so now they have to spend weeks worth of time training to use the industrials that before they could just drag and drop stuff into. __________________________________________
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 03:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Alora Venoda wait, let me get this straight... from what it sounds like, carriers do not use their own cargo holds at all, but rather the cargo holds of ships stored within the carrier's hangar? (i know, i am a noob when it comes to carriers) if anything, this method of transporting goods borders on unintended use of game mechanics... of course, i realise that there really isn't any other way to transport large amounts of materials using cynos. so it's similar to jetcan mining in that we abuse the mechanic because we have no other choice. and likewise, if they nerfed jetcans to limit the use of that adaptation of game mechanics, we would get similar complaints. but it's still ironic that in either case, we would be complaining about not being able to use something for a task that it was never designed for in the first place. and it strongly indicates that such adaptations have become "normal", despite how wonky it is. clearly this very fact is a clear indication that CCP has failed to meet the needs of the players in that area. basically, if we have to resort to "workarounds" to get things done, and then they nerf those too, what do we have left? follow the apparent "intended" design?? and just what is that? only use GSC's for mining? fuel all your stations with freighters or industrials? clearly, there is a severe lack of capabilities in a number of areas and CCP has ignored them for far too long. and we are partly to blame because we found nifty "workarounds" that quickly became "normal" and we were happy using them... until they decided to nerf it. ahhh but now consider some of the new features also to be coming soon(tm): Quote: New Starbase Structures A range of new Starbase structured designed to grease the wheels of your war machine. Twinned Jump Arrays (similar to a Jump Bridge, and used for rapid redeployment of strategic assets of the ôpew pewö variety), Scanning Arrays (gives you a better picture of whatÆs going in the system), Cynosural Generators (allows you to rapidly recall your capitals to certain systems without needing a mobile generator at the destination) and Cynosural Jammers (to suppress the formation of cynosural fields within certain volumes) may all be making an appearance. The pirate factions have also been busy, reverse-engineering starbase structures for their own endsà if i am reading that correctly, it looks like you will be able to network stations to eachother and cyno goods accross your empire faster than ever before. so there will no longer be as great a need for carriers to act as "capital haulers". now if only they could offer a true solution to jetcan mining... You mean like a mobile refinary at the belt adding an invested interest in sticking around once pirates show?
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.14 03:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Popsikle Carriers have a ship maintenance bay and a cargo bay. The cargo bay is 10K m3 and is used for fuel. The ship maintenance bay can only accept assembled ships, it cannot accept packaged ships. It accepts them however they are fit and with whatever contents they may contain. This is used for rapid deployment of ships in space or more commonly used for filling up haulers and then loading them into the ship bay. Whats changing now however is that ships that go into the ship bay cannot have any containers in them. This includes small containers (used for blueprints or ammo maybe) all the way up to GSC's (used for sorting stuff inside your hauler) and courier packages (the plastic wrapped stuff you get when you accept a courier mission.) This means you can no longer sort your stuff out, or that of other players. You can no longer haul others goods for them using a courier mission and you can no longer load your industrial without being in it. Before you were able to double click your indy, and then load stuff right into the GSC's now you actually have to board the ship (otherwise you dont get your cargo space boosted skills) and it adds at least 120 seconds per jump (the 30 second delay between ships and docking/undocking). On top of that alot of capital pilots dont have the skills to fly the bigger haulers (not my issue I trained all the industrial skills ;p ) so now they have to spend weeks worth of time training to use the industrials that before they could just drag and drop stuff into. and could you not use the ships themselves as containers to organise goods? like, put all the BP's in shuttles or something... or is the amount of ships you can carry limited by size or quantity? anyway, my point is that using ships as cargo containers is silly in the first place, and not really what the carrier's ship bay is designed for. what you really want is a capital hauler... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 03:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Alora Venoda and could you not use the ships themselves as containers to organise goods? like, put all the BP's in shuttles or something... or is the amount of ships you can carry limited by size or quantity? anyway, my point is that using ships as cargo containers is silly in the first place, and not really what the carrier's ship bay is designed for. what you really want is a capital hauler... How is it silly? The Carriers bay is used to store ships, and industrials are used to haul goods... GSC's were designed for fitting inside of ships.... __________________________________________
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.06.14 03:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Nyabi Curious, what did logistics do before carriers? Tribal souls used to run Freighters through BoB territory, all the way from A2 or from 1-S down through fountain / delve / period basis to get to Paragon Soul. Bjoern Bitter and Lurks kinda perfected the freighter run. Sometimes it'd take them 4-5 hours, but caution and paranoia won the day. Hint: Dear Knights of the Southern Cross: The incorrect way is to get an escort of 30 ships and light up the "jumps in the last hour" on the map like a freaking beacon saying WE'RE HERE, WE'RE HERE. But, Dark S. is right - a year ago or so, there weren't too many carrier pilots, and there weren't too many POS's in 0.0. 50%+1 Large tower coverage was almost unheard of. ~Xiao -- Lyran procurement is offering tritanium compression services to 0.0 alliances. Free transport to 0.5+ systems, 1 jump into a 0.4 sys for 10%. Contact me for details. Minimums apply.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.14 04:19:00 - [23] alliances will just get more carrier pilots to assist. As the game advances that will happen either that or use freighters
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.14 04:28:00 - [24] dunno.. never planned to use my carrier like that and never will :P its a combat ship after all :D mybe you all should get titans and jump bridge freighters ??? :D --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.14 06:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Popsikle bug CCP for any sort of REAL anwers IMHO, clearer answer and fix would be disallowing loading any ship that has cargo in it's hold (or, automatically jettisoning the said cargo upon loading). Even if we've used to the luxury of having instant jump hauling doesn't mean it makes good game, or that carriers were planned to be industrial ships. Though such nerf would make Titans even more essential/overpowered. -Lasse who currently does depend on carrier logistics
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 07:09:00 - [26] Carrier logistics will continue, albeit a fair bit less efficiently. What will be a much larger change is the way all you PvPers/Ratters/Miners/Builders get us to move your stuff to and from empire for us. When you open a trade window with us and hand over a GSC, expect the words "SSC OR GTFO!" to swiftly spew forth in whatever chat channel. We'll still haul your stuff, just less of it and for a higher price. As for hauling fresh POS fuel into deep 0.0... Well I'm glad I'm not a dreadnaught pilot that’s all I have to say. ............ Seriously though CCP need to rethink this one, there is a reason 0.0 alliances took to using carriers for logistics, and that’s because logistics is a MASSIVE operation that takes an awful long time and is generally incredibly boring. Less Carrier Logistics = More Haulers = More Support Fleets = More Boredom -
speedphreak	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: Alora Venoda wait, let me get this straight... from what it sounds like, carriers do not use their own cargo holds at all, but rather the cargo holds of ships stored within the carrier's hangar? (i know, i am a noob when it comes to carriers) if anything, this method of transporting goods borders on unintended use of game mechanics... of course, i realise that there really isn't any other way to transport large amounts of materials using cynos. so it's similar to jetcan mining in that we abuse the mechanic because we have no other choice. and likewise, if they nerfed jetcans to limit the use of that adaptation of game mechanics, we would get similar complaints. but it's still ironic that in either case, we would be complaining about not being able to use something for a task that it was never designed for in the first place. and it strongly indicates that such adaptations have become "normal", despite how wonky it is. clearly this very fact is a clear indication that CCP has failed to meet the needs of the players in that area. basically, if we have to resort to "workarounds" to get things done, and then they nerf those too, what do we have left? follow the apparent "intended" design?? and just what is that? only use GSC's for mining? fuel all your stations with freighters or industrials? clearly, there is a severe lack of capabilities in a number of areas and CCP has ignored them for far too long. and we are partly to blame because we found nifty "workarounds" that quickly became "normal" and we were happy using them... until they decided to nerf it. Carriers have a ship maintenance bay and a cargo bay. The cargo bay is 10K m3 and is used for fuel. The ship maintenance bay can only accept assembled ships, it cannot accept packaged ships. It accepts them however they are fit and with whatever contents they may contain. This is used for rapid deployment of ships in space or more commonly used for filling up haulers and then loading them into the ship bay. Whats changing now however is that ships that go into the ship bay cannot have any containers in them. This includes small containers (used for blueprints or ammo maybe) all the way up to GSC's (used for sorting stuff inside your hauler) and courier packages (the plastic wrapped stuff you get when you accept a courier mission.) This means you can no longer sort your stuff out, or that of other players. You can no longer haul others goods for them using a courier mission and you can no longer load your industrial without being in it. Before you were able to double click your indy, and then load stuff right into the GSC's now you actually have to board the ship (otherwise you dont get your cargo space boosted skills) and it adds at least 120 seconds per jump (the 30 second delay between ships and docking/undocking). On top of that alot of capital pilots dont have the skills to fly the bigger haulers (not my issue I trained all the industrial skills ;p ) so now they have to spend weeks worth of time training to use the industrials that before they could just drag and drop stuff into. What about the corp hanger?
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:43:00 - [28] Actuley Carriers have a 3500 m3 cargo hold, which is used only for fuel, and a 10km3 Corp hanger bay, which can hold only 3 GSCs. The ship hanger bay however can hold 2x iteron III's with T2 cargo expanders, each of these can hold 4 GSC's bringing the total up to 11 GSC's (42,900m3) With the new change (no GSC's inside the haulers) that limits us to 35,900m3, its not a huge nurf to capacity, it is however a nasty nurf to the way we organise the stuff we haul - basicley because with no cans we can't organise. -
speedphreak	Posted - 2007.06.14 09:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Alski Actuley Carriers have a 3500 m3 cargo hold, which is used only for fuel, and a 10km3 Corp hanger bay, which can hold only 3 GSCs. The ship hanger bay however can hold 2x iteron III's with T2 cargo expanders, each of these can hold 4 GSC's bringing the total up to 11 GSC's (42,900m3) With the new change (no GSC's inside the haulers) that limits us to 35,900m3, its not a huge nurf to capacity, it is however a nasty nurf to the way we organise the stuff we haul - basicley because with no cans we can't organise. yup
Rosalina Sarinna KHM Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.14 11:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Alski Actuley Carriers have a 3500 m3 cargo hold, which is used only for fuel, and a 10km3 Corp hanger bay, which can hold only 3 GSCs. The ship hanger bay however can hold 2x iteron III's with T2 cargo expanders, each of these can hold 4 GSC's bringing the total up to 11 GSC's (42,900m3) With the new change (no GSC's inside the haulers) that limits us to 35,900m3, its not a huge nurf to capacity, it is however a nasty nurf to the way we organise the stuff we haul - basicley because with no cans we can't organise. I may be incorrect, but I think if you get your corp mates to do a private courier contract to you their stuff should be only 1 'package' that should remain organisable.

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