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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 03:06:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Incantare on 17/06/2007 03:05:00
I suggest everyone who calls the drake overpowered read Rod Blaine's post in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=510643&page=3
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Khyara
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Posted - 2007.06.17 05:58:00 -
[32]
Im caladari and quite frankly I thought the whole Drake thing was BS - that thing is overpowered with the passive tank.
Now it could be that Im secretly a Ferox champion because I have no missile skills and thus shunned by the Caladari state(which is true) - but I also thought it was BS that two Battlecruisers of the same race could be so far apart on what they can tank/cant take.
So my two cents on this issue is - your lucky you got away with what you did for as long as you did - now suck up the 'loss' and move on.
If you want to talk loss, lets talk about when they dropped the bottom out of Hulk Prices by making them inventable. I lost a rather large fortune there - and I received no reimbursement at all.
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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 06:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Incantare on 17/06/2007 06:28:00
Yeah but you're basing yourself on the Ferox, generally considered the worse BC of them all. Not exactly fair to compare it to a Drake (the worse t2 BC of them all, or is it?).
If you compare a Drake to a Brutix, it really doesn't look that good anymore. Compare it to a Myrmidion and well... plainly put its crap.
The Ferox could passive tank very well too, just not with rails. Missiles + Nos.
Also did you read the link and understand the arguments? Overpowered at what? If your answer is PVE you're right. If your answer is PVP you need to fly a drake for a while then you'll understand.
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.06.17 08:45:00 -
[34]
drake nerf = meh
with t2 fittings, t1 rigs, and the 3% ammount/recharge implants, i can still get 16k shield and 157 second recharge time on the test server. oh yes and i can still fit my drake the same way i do on tranq without cpu/pg problems.
oh yes and using some other completely different drake build i tanked an amarr doomsday on the test server. was funny, there were 3 battleships, a few capitol ships, and two drakes sitting there and a lot of wrecks.
as for tanking a gank bs, well my drake, a slipnir, and an absolution all died to a gank mega. my ceo and a corpmate killed a drake with a recon and a battleship. i suppose i should ask a gank mega to try out my shields with a pure recharge set up sometime.
and to Atreides Horza
by the time you have 5 mil sp you should be able to buy rigs for a drake, and give me a raven for mission running any day, well for level 4s, drake is fine for 3s, or i could even use my assault frig for most level 3s.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.17 11:25:00 -
[35]
BC passive tank nerf and SPR tf nerf is close to irrelevant for anything EXCEPT FRIGATES, which are hit hard.
If you want to complain, complain about the poor frigate passive tankers that REALLY got nerfed into oblivion.
If anything, it forced the Drake pilots to remove a BCU and add another SPR, so it actually INCREASED their tanks a bit while making them slightly more susceptible to nos (but only if using active hardners) and an even lower DPS.
Of course, you can always set your Drake for full-out gank and paper-thin tank too, so they just don't see you coming.
On the other hand, screw the Drake, I'll have a Dominix instead, thank you very much.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
MikadoK
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Posted - 2007.06.17 13:13:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Original Saint
Originally by: Rigsta
I was pounding on a drake a couple of days ago and couldn't get past 38% with 6 T2 neutron blasters and 5 ogres (Myrmidon). I didn't ask him if he had silly implants or anything though :)
So your saying they can still perma tank 700 + DPS ? So the only thing that changed was the point at which their shields perma tank 700 dps..BIG WHOOPDY DOODAH, gg and they cry still....
Personally i think the nerf was fair enough on BC, not on command ships.
But why for the love of god, is no one questioning that a myrm can out-dps a raven????? AND if it wants out-tank a drake!
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Drazin DawnTreader
The Elear
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Posted - 2007.06.17 14:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
BC passive tank nerf and SPR tf nerf is close to irrelevant for anything EXCEPT FRIGATES, which are hit hard.
If you want to complain, complain about the poor frigate passive tankers that REALLY got nerfed into oblivion.
If anything, it forced the Drake pilots to remove a BCU and add another SPR, so it actually INCREASED their tanks a bit while making them slightly more susceptible to nos (but only if using active hardners) and an even lower DPS.
Of course, you can always set your Drake for full-out gank and paper-thin tank too, so they just don't see you coming.
Exactly.
The SPR CPU needs increase didn't even phase my Drake.
My Jaguar however... I'm not certain I can even equip 1 SPR on it now.
This is what happens when Developers swing the nerfbat blindly in hope of fixing a problem that really isnt a problem. They miss and end up breaking something else.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.17 15:28:00 -
[38]
Originally by: MikadoK
But why for the love of god, is no one questioning that a myrm can out-dps a raven????? AND if it wants out-tank a drake!
Because "everybody knows" that
a) shield tanks suck in PvP, hence
b) Caldari suck at PvP, so Drake MUST suck at PvP, while on the other hand
c) Gallente are best at PvP, so
d) Myrmidon is supposed to be the best BC around anyway, so
e) by now everybody forgot (a) and got stuck with (b), therefore (d) is true regardless of circumstances
Short answer ? Hypocrisy.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 16:20:00 -
[39]
Yep. But missiles hit everytime, its so unfair!!!!!!!!1111
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Commander Spectre
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Posted - 2007.06.17 16:48:00 -
[40]
Yeah you know since one ship can do something better than another...
Why don't we nerf mimntar cuz they are too fast?
Or let's nerf Amarr cuz they use no ammo and don't have to reload?
How about we nerf Gallente cuz they got better drones?
Hell maybe there should only be 1 ship that everyone flys?
Yeah now there's some balance for ya. With only one ship to choose from no one can complain that someone else has an unfair advantage. There ya go CCP I solved the whole balance problem for ya. No complaints ever again. 1 Race, 1 Ship. That's what everyone wants really isn't it?
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SauronTheMage
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.17 18:44:00 -
[41]
Although this is a not in regards to the drake nerf, it is in relations to it since the vulture & nighthawk got nerfed also. I ran my tank setup on sisi using the new values (w/ gang bonuses etc) and my tank dropped from 285hp / sec to approx 240hp / sec @ 30% (using x2.4). So the nerf made a 40hp / sec difference, which might not be much I guess.
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Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.18 16:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fwaatcha
I think the drake needs some love if it couldnt kill a Myrmidon before getting to 38% shields
Sounds like another case of :
Hi Im scissors, papers fine , Nerf Rock please
It was a tank test, not a fight. T1 ogres too, in case anyone was wondering. He sounded pretty sure I could have broken him with T2s, but it still took bloody ages. Reloading my blasters meant him getting 10% shields back.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.06.18 17:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Donathan Slade on 18/06/2007 17:13:47
Originally by: Damned Force
Originally by: Zikka
My raven has broken every drake tank it's ever tried. Normally takes a while but they go down.
Having said that a mild nerf was needed and I think the current one is reasonable. Now we just need to fix myrmidons :)
Yes agree. and the domi and the moros, etc etc.
Instead of complaining, get one. :P Besides, drone boats are only as good as your drone skills make them. And while they are spending getting drone skills, your getting other skills. It all pays off in the end.
All i hear on here is flame flame flame ***** ***** *****.. its never enough to just let things go. Nobody ever mentions the Amarr or Minmatar, they just slide under the brese. If you don't like drones, pop them, equip a smart bomb.
As per the I want my money back for my riged up drake. Dude, wake up, 3-4 drakes you have? All rigged? Seriously, its your fault for spending that much money when you couldn't get popped in the first place, and your tank is still good. And the only reason you would have 3-4 is because you knew you were going to get gang raped because you were OP.
I think we will have to "ACTUALLY" see how the changes take affect. And as per the now nerf the myrm, I fly a myrm, and when you realize it, how many people with 25-50Mill SP fly one day to day. Everybody can make these lets calculate what we can get with all these skills ut you never realize that the person with 5 Mill SP doesn't do the "uber" damage you all say the myrm does. Remember, its a TON of SP to get Ogre II... and then there is resists ontop of your "raw" dps you all calculate.
A post flame "aftermath" can't and shouldn't even be on here until after the patch goes out. because then your pre-*****ing about aftermath that hasn't happened yet.
Edit: I forgot to mention. A person with skills for a drake with only 5 Mill can be OP, but a person flying a Myrm with 5 Mill isn't. And remember, ever ship and setup is all situational to the combat situation of the game. If you fit one way, your inevitably going to get beat with another strategy.
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Donathan Slade
Kay Korporation
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.06.18 17:18:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: MikadoK
But why for the love of god, is no one questioning that a myrm can out-dps a raven????? AND if it wants out-tank a drake!
Because "everybody knows" that
a) shield tanks suck in PvP, hence
b) Caldari suck at PvP, so Drake MUST suck at PvP, while on the other hand
c) Gallente are best at PvP, so
d) Myrmidon is supposed to be the best BC around anyway, so
e) by now everybody forgot (a) and got stuck with (b), therefore (d) is true regardless of circumstances
Short answer ? Hypocrisy.
Each race has an advantage, each race has a disadvantage. Such is life. suck it up and deal :)
Originally by: Incantare
Yep. But missiles hit everytime, its so unfair!!!!!!!!1111
Ok, you fire Torps and have stuff warp away. Lets see you call that "hit every time" Or have the crow fly 8-14k/sec and outrun missiles.
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.18 17:22:00 -
[45]
Drakes are quite tough. They take 12 shots from my megathron. Most ships take 8.
-Bart
CCP: please fix the asteroids in the new regions.
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Kaar
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.18 19:09:00 -
[46]
Its not a nerf, its a fix.
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Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.19 01:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kaar
Its not a nerf, its a fix.
Can't wait when they fix the Chimera then. Oh and can't wait when they fix the Dominix and Myrm :)
______
Originally by: Vyger
If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner? 
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 02:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 19/06/2007 02:17:26
nvm
Originally by: Benglada
And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Rilder
Caldari
THC LTD
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Posted - 2007.06.19 03:10:00 -
[49]
I don't know if it was my crappy skills but my corps ceo in a Domi could break my Drakes tank with t2 ogres.. though I wasn't rigged and he was a 2003 player compared to me starting in late 2006...
(pre patch btw)
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-Rilder
Visit my blog =)
http://rilderslog.blogspot.com/ |
True Ace
Gallente
Blood Moon Masques
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:26:00 -
[50]
t2 ogres broke my hyperions tank in a minute or two, maybe it was the nos i dnt know lol. point being stop complaining about everything. **** happens. drake is a good bc for what its being used for. if u want to pvp in drake u better bring a gang like teh drake that killed me did. damn drake tackled my drake yes i got scrambled by drake then a hyperion and vigilant warped in and killed me.
p.s my deimos needs a slight mass reduction and all is good.
IM YOUR KING'S KING. |
Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Incantare on 19/06/2007 08:35:22
There are very few situations where a player in a Drake would be more useful to his gang than a Myrm, Cane or Harb. The ship isn't good at solo, it's outdone in small gangs and I can't see it being useful in fleets. I see that as a problem.
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amarrian king
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:47:00 -
[52]
lol never said anything about it being useful. i just said if u want to pvp in that ship u need a gang. it can be used as a good bait ship though.
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Will Stronghold
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Incantare
Yep. But missiles hit everytime, its so unfair!!!!!!!!1111
Please try and hit anyone speedtanking with missiles. Even a ship doing 3-5k / sec is actually out of harms way from missiles, since if the missiles even catch up, the explosion speed is so slow that the speedtanking ship avoids the damage. So speedtanking ships can just orbit you and keep attacking when your missiles are useless.
The positive thing about missiles is however that they can do any damage type needed and FOF can be used to shoot when cant target.
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True Ace
Gallente
Blood Moon Masques
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:57:00 -
[54]
true but drones nor guns can hit those speed tanks either so lets clasify that as a bad example
IM YOUR KING'S KING. |
Wiccy84
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:20:00 -
[55]
and missiles dont have wrecking shots.
so there goes your dont always hit trade off
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Wiccy84
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:33:00 -
[56]
all caldari asked for was a GANK ship.... the drake was disguised as that, but lost its RoF and somehow had a *glitch in its shield regen rate.
In actual flight, we see 90% of drake pilots running around with super tanks because they found out
a. their supposid gank ship lost its firepower
b. it could tank
so thank you CCP for releasing to caldari another great ship that ppl complain about because they cant kill it as fast with their ganks ships.
there are other ships out there that can tank great too if they gave up all their slots to tanking.... part of this nerf is the fact 90% of drake pilots decided pretending to do damage sucks and absorbing it was the drakes only role.
GIVE US THE ROF BACK and take away the extra resistance bonuses or something PLEASE
TURN THIS BACK INTO THE GANK-ship it was intended for
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Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Valandril
Actualy they still got ugly tank.
yes, but the point it that the passive tanking is going to be somewhat less viable. being hard as nails whilst actively tanking, so be it, they run out of cap eventually. passive tanks can sit there for an eternity, which was unfair.
and before anyone wonders - yes, i do fly a drake. and i personally never liked the idea of a completely passive tank from a balance point of view - and i didn't fit one to my drake, as i didn't feel the need.
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Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 22:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Will Stronghold
[...]
I thought it was clear that I wasn't serious.
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