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Damp Questions (bloody cheating drones!)

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CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 07:48:00 - [1] Been playing around with damps recently and have come up with some situations where I'd like clarification. I was dueling a corp mate in a dominix. I lock, damp and point him, then I deploy 2 sentry drones and then he launches 5 medium drones. 1) What will his drones attack, my ship or my sentry drones? 2) What determines what they will attack? 3) Is there any way to control what his drones attack (since he can't command them to attack targets he can't lock) 4) Is his drone control range influenced by my damps or will his drones chase me up to 60km (or whatever his control range happens to be) away? 5) How far away would i have to drop my sentry drones to keep them out of harm's way (assuming the domi is stationary). 6) When we were dueling, he would launch his drones and either not command them or tell them to orbit him (couldn't tell which) and when my medium drones would approach his ship his drones would attack my drones. How is he able to get them to not attack my ship but to attck my drones when they arrive, all without targetting my drones? Basically in addition to the above questions, any info you guys have regarding the interaction of drone 'ai' and damps would be of great use. Thanks in advance!
Sandeep	Posted - 2007.06.15 08:21:00 - [2] 1/2/3) Without orders, drones go after the first thing that shoots the owner after deployment. Since you are already shooting him, his drones ignore you for now. After your first sentry drone die, his drones scatter to multiple targets. 4/5) Out of his drone range (not lock range). Drones automatically go after anything aggressive within drone range. 6) Light/Medium/Heavy drones don't shoot the target when they are still approaching it. ----- Tip #2: Space is not safe, no matter where you are.
Not Bait	Posted - 2007.06.15 08:45:00 - [3] #1 Whichever target does the first aggressive act (after his drones have been released) will receive the initial agro. Note, lag can sometimes confuse newly released drones about which attacker shot first - so they may even split up at this point. #2 Drones are stupid and unpredictable once the "initial agro" target is killed or disappears. They go for random targets at that point. But they'll often form a 2 and 3 split for their second targets, and continue to split up randomly from there. #3 If you want his drones to attack your ship, and not your drones, you must make sure his drones see your guns hit him before your drones do anything agressive. #4 Damps have no effect on drone control range. He can still recall them if they aren't going for the target he wants, but he can't do much else without a target. #6 With lots of incoming damage from both you and your drones, what his drones initially attack is basically chance based. But if he doesn't like what target the drones pick, he can always recall & redeploy to roll the dice again.
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 14:41:00 - [4] Any aggressive act? Do nos or a web count? So, potentially, I could control his drones' aggro by toggling a nos on and then off again when he relaunches his drones?
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.15 15:18:00 - [5] Anything what would get you concorded = agressive act. So, yes, nos and webs do count.
EMTsNightmare Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.15 16:33:00 - [6] you can only damp him down to about a 12km lock range or something like that. Once your drones get inside that lock range he can start to slowly lock them and assign his drones to attack yours. Thats assuming his haven't automatically started to attack yours. It just takes him longer to lock your drones.
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 16:47:00 - [7] Yah, I was pulsing the drones, leave them out for 30 seconds or so then recall
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.15 17:36:00 - [8] You do not really need to pulse sentries unless he moves too close to them. Also pulsing the drones will definately aggro his drones (on your drones) if they were passive before.
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:46:00 - [9] Edited by: CaldariSlave on 15/06/2007 19:50:13 I'm having a hard time with one point here, so let's try another situation. Let's say I'm in a curse. My corp mate's domi is afk with all his drones in his drone bay. I deploy 2 sentry drones order them to open up, damp him, start orbiting him at 15km and begin nosing and scramming him. He comes back to his computer and launches his drones. There are no NEW sources of aggro while his drones are out, everything was happening before they were launched. 1) Does this matter? Or is it just the first source his drones see that they run to attack? 2) To keep his drones off my sentries, assuming they are within his drone control range, I'd have to order them to stop attacking just before he launched drones every time? (basically an impossible task?)
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:49:00 - [10] They will not attack anything. If one attack stops (for example, you have to reload a weapon or recall drones) and then starts again they will go for that target which re-initiated the agression.
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:52:00 - [11] Are you sure about that m8?
L33t Sphere	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:59:00 - [12] Every shot is an aggression. So basically every activation of a module(scram, web, etc) is aggression, and counts if the drones "see" that action. Basically, if your guns fire or nos fires or anything before your sentry drones, they'll attack that. That's what I've seen anyway.
Endless Subversion	Posted - 2007.06.15 20:03:00 - [13] Edited by: Endless Subversion on 15/06/2007 20:02:18 Id like to know too
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.15 20:04:00 - [14] Yah but does each cycle of the nos agress the drones or just the first cycle? IE if I get the first cycle off before he deploys will they ever attack me?
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.06.15 20:13:00 - [15] I can tell you about projectiles. Only the first shot of a series is considered aggression. For example: I start shooting and dampening. Other ship puts drones out. No problem. My magazines run dry and then auto reload. I start shooting the other ship again (it is still dampened and unable to lock me). The drones immediately attack at this point. Hope that helps, Gortimus Minimus -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Lyn Bunnions	Posted - 2007.06.15 20:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Lyn Bunnions on 15/06/2007 20:21:23 Judging from missions, if a someone STARTS shooting you and your drones are released they attack. If you release the drones WHILE someone is shooting at you(so they miss the initial shot) they won't attack until he reloads and gives the attack order again. So basically what ^ said but in detail. What this means is that if you have lasers and you don't run out of ammo or you are using any other non-pulsed offensive systems(including your own drones), enemy won't auto-agress you if they are released after every one of your mods is active on the enemy ship. So if he is afk and you find him and activate all you have on him his drones will not auto attack you unless they were already in space, he will have to target something and order them to attack. After that target is dead they begin choosing random targets. Basically Drones enter "combat-mode" only if they detect the initiation of any aggressing module.
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.06.15 22:23:00 - [17] Originally by: CaldariSlave 1) What will his drones attack, my ship or my sentry drones? Since he cant order them to attack (assuming you dampened him enough), they will attack the first thing that aggresses him after he deployed them. Then once that thing is dead, they will randomly engage anything thats on his aggro table until all such targets are destroyed, at which point they will return and orbit. Originally by: CaldariSlave 2) What determines what they will attack? See above. Originally by: CaldariSlave 3) Is there any way to control what his drones attack (since he can't command them to attack targets he can't lock) Yes. Make sure that whatever you want them to attack is the first thing to aggress him. If you want the drones on your ship, shoot a gun or active a jammer on him before launching your own drones to attack. Originally by: CaldariSlave 4) Is his drone control range influenced by my damps or will his drones chase me up to 60km (or whatever his control range happens to be) away? His drone control range isnt influenced by your damps. Only his ability to lock you (and thus effectively order his drones around). If his drones aggro you, they will chase you to the limits of his drone control range and often beyond. Originally by: CaldariSlave 5) How far away would i have to drop my sentry drones to keep them out of harm's way (assuming the domi is stationary). Depends totally on his skills and whether he has any drone link augmentors fitted. Assuming no drone links and maxed skills (scout drones 5, EW drones 5) 60km for a domi. Farther for an ishtar as it gets a bonus to drone control range IIRC. Originally by: CaldariSlave 6) When we were dueling, he would launch his drones and either not command them or tell them to orbit him (couldn't tell which) and when my medium drones would approach his ship his drones would attack my drones. How is he able to get them to not attack my ship but to attck my drones when they arrive, all without targetting my drones? Because your drones got aggro when they attacked his ship. The solution to that problem is launch your drones, and when he launches his, shoot him with your ship. Then order your drones to attack. His drones will autoaggro onto you and not your drones. And if he recalls drones to try to put them back on your drones, he will have to target your drones to do it, as they would already be on the aggro table before he relaunches.
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.06.15 22:28:00 - [18] Originally by: CaldariSlave Edited by: CaldariSlave on 15/06/2007 19:50:13 I'm having a hard time with one point here, so let's try another situation. Let's say I'm in a curse. My corp mate's domi is afk with all his drones in his drone bay. I deploy 2 sentry drones order them to open up, damp him, start orbiting him at 15km and begin nosing and scramming him. He comes back to his computer and launches his drones. There are no NEW sources of aggro while his drones are out, everything was happening before they were launched. 1) Does this matter? Or is it just the first source his drones see that they run to attack? 2) To keep his drones off my sentries, assuming they are within his drone control range, I'd have to order them to stop attacking just before he launched drones every time? (basically an impossible task?) When your damp cycles again, its now a "new" source of aggro. If you order your drones off him, and then back onto him (like you scoop/relaunch), they are now a "new" source of aggro. If your drones were already attacking him before he launched drones, and you dont call them off, in theory his drones will only auto aggro your ship at that point the next time you activate a new module (or reactivate one with a timer, such as a scram, web, damp). Course drone AI is buggy, and sometimes they autoaggro for no apparent reason. I even had my drones blow up my repping alt one time on a mission. The alt had no offensive weapons on his ship, so I know he wasnt on my aggro table, but my drones went after him anyway. And since he wasnt in my corp, well.. that got me concordokkened.
xenodia Gallente Shadowrun Company	Posted - 2007.06.15 22:29:00 - [19] Originally by: CaldariSlave Yah but does each cycle of the nos agress the drones or just the first cycle? IE if I get the first cycle off before he deploys will they ever attack me? Each cycle of a module that cycles (Nos, damp, ecm, scram, etc) counts as a "new" aggressive act.
General Coochie Gallente New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.15 22:38:00 - [20] Edited by: General Coochie on 15/06/2007 22:37:08 Originally by: xenodia Originally by: CaldariSlave Yah but does each cycle of the nos agress the drones or just the first cycle? IE if I get the first cycle off before he deploys will they ever attack me? Each cycle of a module that cycles (Nos, damp, ecm, scram, etc) counts as a "new" aggressive act. Are you sure about that? Cause I think aramendel meant the opposite and I think thats what I experienced myself. But now I got uncertain if I actually have expereienced it in away that can confirm this..
CaldariSlave	Posted - 2007.06.16 00:20:00 - [21] Edited by: CaldariSlave on 16/06/2007 00:21:39 I just tested it out with a friend in a different corp. I locked, damped started nosing him and ordered a drone to attack him. Then he deployed his drones. His drones reported that they were idle and didn't aggress my ship or my drones. Then I tried turning off a nos and damps and then turning them back on. No change, his drones didn't do a thing. .... any theories? If someone has a test to put this to rest, spell it out and I'll give it a shot
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.06.16 07:47:00 - [22] Actually your test with your non-corp (non-alliance if you wanna be really precise, although that should not matter) friend is actually the type of test you would need to do: what you would want to do is fit your curse with: A laser gun An artillery gun A nosferatu 2x dampener (and get his locking range) 1x warp scrambler 1x tracking disruptor some tank obviously the drone controller target could fit a warp core stab to screw his locking range more easily, being on TS or summin will help now what you would do is make sure you have enough ammo in the arty and lock him while having all your modules activated so that everything is activated right away, have your target release his drones the moment he sees your laser/nos whatever effects: that will determine whether certain 'cycles' (nos, scrambler/disruptor) causes aggro every time... (I think it does not for drone aggro activation purposes) then continue till your arty ammo is reloaded and re-activate gun to see if that causes aggro (I think this one counts more often than not) As for your drones: aggro is the red blinky target brackets kind: your drones will be yellow blinky until they start shooting (at about <5km depending on drones), making them red blinky (you should know this by experience/the kewl movies found on the forum..). Recalling your drones gets them yellow blinky again, as soon as they turn red again they will be aggro-ing again and get droned.. one very important thing: your target friend should NEVER (yes bold and caps) give the return and orbit command to his drones, this makes them ignore the kill-list/aggro table untill they get a kill command again: if he must he can scoop them (but it kinda means the same thing) Now to quickly anwser your questions: 1) his drones will either be sent on a target or randomly attack anything that has aggro-ed their controller 2) the drone controller or the godmodule (eve's biased chance randomiser) 3) you can always get his drones to attack you, the rest is pure chance, although you will probably kick him down to enough lock range to still lock the normal combat drones, which means he can target them and send his drones after those 4) drone control range is static, not influenced by anything other than the controller's ship, skills, modules and rigs 4.2) drones will follow you to the ends of the system if you slowboat, unless you fly faster than them, then you could get lucky and activate a drone bug... drone control range has nothing to do with it, pure aggro thing 5) you can't be sure/at least out of his locking range (85km basic, 2x a nice damp and you might get it down to 15km or summin, 25km is a safe bet) 6) aggro thing, see above damps influence drone ai as such: they cause aggro. so one of the questions is: why sentry drones? .. curses like to cruise, sentry drones like to hang still.. I like their dps and against a non-moving BS they can be nice I suppose, but .. hmm All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.16 19:28:00 - [23] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 16/06/2007 19:29:07 Treat enemy drones like you would NPC rats. If you dont want your drones to get shot at make sure you initiate agro to grab their attention and they will go after you. Once the drone go after you release your drones and they will be safe. The target can scoop them back up and redeploy sure however drones only attack targets initiating a hostile action and not targets continuing previous hostile actions (your safe unless you tell your drones to attack something new, this will count as a new hostile act and cause the drones to attack). Reloading will also cause drones to attack if you activate the gun after it finished reloading. note if your enemy fires off a BURST ECM your drones will lose their lock momentarily. They will immediatly relock and fire on the target (maybee a second delay at most) however this counts as a new hostile action and will incur the wrath of enemy drones in standby mode. Drone control range is just the range that they will take orders from (be it from the ship or auto defending it) however if they are already attacking you they will continue the attack from any range (even if you get 200km from the target) since they do not need to recieve a new order to continue their current order. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.

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