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Eve should be about this kind of attitude.

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Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:08:00 - [1] I've read so much about unfair ganks and a gazillion onto 1 overkill ganks etc, it makes me wonder if the maturity of the players has really hit an all time low. One alliance mate and I had a good bit of harmless fun in lowsec the other day and we both agreed that this is what Eve should be like. Flying around the belts in a Damnation just browsing to see what mins were around and maybe pop a few rats, I got locked by two players. Since they took so long to make the decision, I was already in warp to go to the next belt and couldn't abort. I went back but they had gone by then. A bit later, another player from the same corp was following me around the belts in a Caracal when suddenly his corpmate warped in flying a Drake and started to lock me. Although there was a NPC cruiser in the belt but I could ignore that. Soon after, the other one started locking so the fight was on. My alliance mate warped in at that point with his Drake and we started a 2v2. A third member of the other corp came in and started to lock my mate but left again without even firing a shot. I took on the Drake and my mate took on the Caracal and I headed in on AB to close to range of my lasers. My missiles were already doing damage to his shields. My mate was doing some severe damage to the Caracal's shield and had him down to armor before he bugged out. I too had my opponent down to armor but I allowed both enemy ships two missile volleys each at my armor before turning on the repper. What little damage they had done was gone in an instant. Seeing this and the fact that he was now outnumbered, my opponent soon warped away. No webbers and no scramblers were used and it was a bit of nice clean fun. Even they had a laugh with us in local afterwards. Okay, they were not the most experienced players and I think they bit off a bit more than they could really chew in taking on a Command ship. Even with several other corp mates in local, they didn't call on mega reinforcements to claim a gank using massive overkill tactics. This is what you hear so little of now. They are a corp with members mostly way lower skilled than us, testing their guns and a little friendly dust up gave us the little bit of action we wanted. It also taught them that they needed a bit more time before they could effectively take on more skilled players. No damage done, no smacktalk and no whines on the forums. These payers will go on playing and having fun rather than leave because they lost their ship and pod to someone who could have just left them to lick their wounds and have a sizeable repair bill to think about. We are not pirates. Even if we were, podding is not necessary if you have already popped their ship. Podding noobs just for the hell of it is immature and pointless. They have probably already lost a ship that cost them every isk they had so it's taught them a lesson already.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:20:00 - [2] Jolly hockey sticks - wot wot - good show old bean - queensbury rules SKUNK
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Dantes Revenge We are not pirates. Even if we were, podding is not necessary if you have already popped their ship. Podding noobs just for the hell of it is immature and pointless. They have probably already lost a ship that cost them every isk they had so it's taught them a lesson already. Your story tells me you should be very grateful they were new. By any standards anyone who was half competent at pvp even at their level of skillpoints would have destroyed you. I am afraid you fail at understanding the logical constructs and philosophy behind eve.
Marquis Dean Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:25:00 - [4] Some players met in a belt and had some pew! Quick, inform the forums! PS: Good for you for being sporting about it. --- Originally by: Wild Rho I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.06.16 15:27:00 - [5] Yea,, that did sound pretty cool. We were doing a low sec operation last week and a guy that came to see what was up got genuinely upset that ONE member of our security team LOCKED him (there were many BS's on the security team). NOT fired on him mind you,, simply locked him. We didn't even tell him he had to leave. We were just keepin' an eye on him. He as a ****in and a moaning in local for a good 5 minutes that we were treating him like a criminal. I kinda feel sorry for him,,, he is not gonna do well in low sec. Hmm,, not sure what that had to do with your post exactly... kinda slow at work today.
Blue Tsunami	Posted - 2007.06.16 16:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Blue Tsunami on 16/06/2007 16:51:32 Edited by: Blue Tsunami on 16/06/2007 16:51:11 Originally by: Takahashi Arran Your story tells me you should be very grateful they were new. By any standards anyone who was half competent at pvp even at their level of skillpoints would have destroyed you. I am afraid you fail at understanding the logical constructs and philosophy behind eve. ------------------------------------------------------------ Lol, what is this? Lol again. I am afraid you fail to understand what the OP was actually saying. I too have recently had a couple of small scale battles and found them incredibly refreshing. Losing assets to unnecessary lag is not something I want to become accustomed too. It's going to happen once in awhile, but who's willing to pay for a game when it is the norm. Why would you shoot someone down for offering a positive story that brought a little more love to the game for them. What's up with people in this game lately...???
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.06.16 17:36:00 - [7] In my short time in Eve, I have met a few players like the OP and I have to say that I appreciated those encounters. What a new pilot is lacking in Eve, especially when venturing into low sec, is perspective. When you ôthinkö you have built a decent ship and you ôthinkö you are moderately capable of protecting yourself, it is very enlightening when you meet a pilot who will show you just how far you need to go without wiping out your assets in the process. I had such an encounter in my Thorax, where I felt confident, then grossly underpowered in the span of a minute. What I gained was a lesson in humility from a generous pilot willing to critique my ship and give me pointers, and an escort back to high sec at 10% hull. I needed that lesson and have learned from it.
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.06.16 17:55:00 - [8] Back in pre-cold war I used to smart bomb the kisogo ice belts on behalf of spartan239. Was fun as we never managed to kill them but instead we just exchanged whimsical joking remarks. Was all in fun, and yes the occasional ibis was taken down but I never made a habit of it. -------- Robbie Rotten left me
Celestal	Posted - 2007.06.16 18:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Takahashi Arran Your story tells me you should be very grateful they were new. By any standards anyone who was half competent at pvp even at their level of skillpoints would have destroyed you. I am afraid you fail at understanding the logical constructs and philosophy behind eve. wow you are pretty astute to have gleaned that from his post have you got a degree in psychology ? did you get said degree from the university of nigerian cooking ?
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.16 18:31:00 - [10] You mean they didn't cyno in five carriers on you ?!

Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.16 18:37:00 - [11] Eve would be a better game without scramblers. All they're ever used for is keeping 1 guy there while 50 guys pound him. The best fights are the small gang battles where nobody has to use a scrambler, its a rumble in the Bronx, everybody just throws down, and you have a fun fight. Unfortunately I've never gotten fun fights in anything other than RP wars, all the other ones were metagamed to the max with ppl hitting ctrl-Q when they start losing and various other lameness.
Sebesto Minmatar Destination Unknown	Posted - 2007.06.16 18:38:00 - [12] So the attitude you are trying to say that eve should be is, a HAC and whatever else you had, vs a cruiser and a bc is fair? It is the same as ganking with a gazillion onto one. But, I do agree, podding is not really necessary unless of course they call you some slanderous word like I have been called a few times.
Sasakisan	Posted - 2007.06.17 03:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I've read so much about unfair ganks and a gazillion onto 1 overkill ganks etc, it makes me wonder if the maturity of the players has really hit an all time low. A lot of these "overkill ganks" are just people applying the Powell Doctrine to EVE. Originally by: http://www.answers.com/topic/powell-doctrine Powell expanded upon the Doctrine, asserting that when a nation is engaging in war, every resource and tool should be used to achieve overwhelming force against the enemy, minimizing US casualties and ending the conflict quickly by forcing the weaker force to capitulate.
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.17 03:48:00 - [14] Edited by: FarScape III on 17/06/2007 03:49:43 *** Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun. A Minmater City... Cool!
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2007.06.17 14:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Sebesto So the attitude you are trying to say that eve should be is, a HAC and whatever else you had, vs a cruiser and a bc is fair? It is the same as ganking with a gazillion onto one. But, I do agree, podding is not really necessary unless of course they call you some slanderous word like I have been called a few times. It wasn't fair at all but we weren't the ones that locked and fired first. If we had used scramblers that we both had fitted, we would have easily destroyed their ships because they would not have been able to escape. My mate also took on one while I took on the other instead of calling primary on one even though they were both firing at me. My mate has slightly less skills than me and was up for some fun. If I had been alone, I would have left it as 2v1. We already had a look at their bio's and saw they were fairly new players so a lesson in humility is just as effective if you just make them see that they have little chance of winning. That's why I was not worried about them hitting my armor. If the one flying the Drake couldn't hit me at 40K range with his missiles, he didn't have enough missile skills to do much damage. We had just very quickly broken the tanks of two shield tanking ships whilst taking no damage. I have very good armor skills with 90%+ armor resists across the board and easily tank every NPC in a level 3 mission while my mate kills them. When you have 15 or more NPC's hitting you with missiles and guns and still not breaking your tank, a couple of new players are not going to break it. If they had used scramblers, so would we and we would have gone for kills as well in that case. My view is that using scramblers means a fight to the death and I'm up for that if that's what they want. If I lose my ship, what the hell? it's a game, it's not like I die for real and I can afford to replace the ship otherwise I wouldn't be flying it in lowsec.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.17 15:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I've read so much about unfair ganks and a gazillion onto 1 overkill ganks etc, it makes me wonder if the maturity of the players has really hit an all time low. That's where you go wrong, the two are not by default connected at all. Overpowering numbers, podding, and all the less nice stuff is Eve has nothign at all by default to do with maturity. In fact, I could argue that your lack of ability to disconnect these actions from a value system you use outside of the game actually points to the real immaturity at work here. Of course, in practice you do have a point, since alot of the time less nice actions do find their way into the hands of the immature, but that's not symptomatic of a default connection, it's just behaviour expressed that would find it's way to expression anyway. The actions themselves aren't immature, it's only the intention with which they are used in these cases. [center] Old blog
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.17 15:48:00 - [17] yesterday, Cohick stole some ore from one of my corp mates while I was refitting my bs in system he's lucky it takes so darn long ro align a phoon, i only got to kill half his armor when I got there the repairs would not have been covered by the 17k scordite he stole Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon!
Uhr Zylex	Posted - 2007.06.18 09:43:00 - [18] Couldn't agree more with the OP, this is really one of the most enjoyable things you can do in the game. A few weeks back I had a very exciting trip with a friend of mine to the EVE gate, we flew an abaddon and drake - and ended up crushing a gatecamp consisting of two hurricanes + one raven. All in all some great fun and about 10 million worth of T2 loot as an extra reward. I can't say I agree with the people who say warp scramblers are bad though. Forbidding warp scramblers would totally break pvp, you would be able to flee 90% of the time.
Ladyah Liandri VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Dantes Revenge It wasn't fair at all but we weren't the ones that locked and fired first. I am rather surprised to see that a reincarnation of Mother Theresa is playing Eve.
Ventallia Renvess	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Ventallia Renvess on 18/06/2007 12:42:06 gah, why are the forums making my alt default :( ----------- Rawr, I'm a manatee

Copine Callmeknau Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:44:00 - [21] You were lucky they were new to the game, by all rights you should have just lost your commandship. ----- Originally by: Patch86 Depressing as hell though. By the end, you feel like someone's eaten your kitten.
Raz Algol	Posted - 2007.06.18 13:04:00 - [22] By judging your atitude about loosing shipps/modules... you should be playing WoW No boom, no fun IMHO! Some times i gett ****ed off when i loos a shipp, but i gett over it.. learn from my mistakes, and adapt. Worst cind of playing in EVE, is thous running to lov or no sec... end up getting killd, then whine, smack and cry about it. This is a war game.. fluffy bunnies and no-risk PVP doesnt belong here. Adapt or Die! Kill or be killd.. This is EVE!
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.06.18 13:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Gaven Blands on 18/06/2007 13:07:15 I had a fight the other night and decided to quit Eve. Luckily I got over it. It went like this. My badger steals ore. Their Ferox shoots badger. (Stabbed and warped, as I knew about the Ferox) Their Ferox hides from me. Timers run out. I decide to take my Brutix elsewhere looking for action. Outside I find. 1 Scorpion. 1 Thorax 1 caracal 1 Ferox. And for some reason they think I am going to "fight like a man". So I thought, "This is Eve. This is what it comes down to. Either you are outgunned by a ratio of at least 10, or you get no fight. ** this. Burn the Brutix then... and ****** to Eve". Turns out that Rax's fall apart in front of a Brutix, caracals that get ECM'd can't scram you. Idiots that break up to chase lose the Caracal when you get back quicker than they do, and when the idiot in a scorpion gets back and shoots gate guns, he dies. When he relaunches in a drake, he dies again. So the brutix survives, and there's 2 cruiser, 1 battlecruiser and 1 battleship wreck lying around me, and more smack in Local than even I can handle. Then I decided not to quit eve after all. Since, despite the majority of players being total chicken juice, they have sufficient stupidity to sometimes make the suckiness of Eve bearable.
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.18 13:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Celestal wow you are pretty astute to have gleaned that from his post have you got a degree in psychology ? did you get said degree from the university of nigerian cooking ? No but the following facts tell me that anyone half competent would have floored them. lets looks at what he said shall we? Quote: just browsing to see what mins were around It isn't hard to "know " what minerals are around. infact anyone who is half-way familiar with that low-sec area will be able to tell you - or you can just look it up on a minerals site. Either way this tells me that they are new to the area and so don't know the terrain and the locals of the area well. Given this flying around belts its a dangerous and stupid thing to do. Quote: and maybe pop a few rats This - combined with the fact he didn't have a warp scrambler fitted tells me that they had PVE setups fitted - given that engaging in PVP is obviously foolish for obvious reasons. Quote: I took on the Drake and my mate took on the Caracal and I headed in on AB to close to range of my lasers. This tells me 2 things. first that he's fitting a 10mn afterburner on a command ship- a silly enough thing to do on its own but that secondly he failed to focus fire- the single most basic pvp tactic in the game. Quote: My missiles were already doing damage to his shields This tells me he was fitting heavy missiles on his damnation since he was out of laser range despite the damnation range bonus. - this is hadly a great damnation fitting so far- even ignoring the mediocrity of the damnation for this kind of PVP Quote: No webbers and no scramblers were used Ok so you have a PVE setup so you don't have a scrambler but no web? What on earth were in you midslots 3 CR2's?? Anyone who was half competent could have beaten those setups with corp mates in local to provide further support. Quote: These payers will go on playing and having fun rather than leave because they lost their ship and pod to someone who could have just left them to lick their wounds and have a sizeable repair bill to think about. This tells me he fails to understand eve. ship destruction is one of the fundamental constructs behind the game and game mechanics. The economy and whole eco-system of eve revolves around ship destruction. Calling it immature shows a complete lack of understanding of the game. Quote: Even if we were, podding is not necessary if you have already popped their ship. Podding noobs just for the hell of it is immature and pointless. No its not. Podding is how eve works. Unless you align and warp out in a real PVP situation you will lose your pod. By not podding them your increasing their loss at a later stage when they learn this to some proper PVP'ers. Not that you would ever manage to pod someone from a belt in a CS though which makes the statement moot i suppose.
Aaron	Posted - 2007.06.18 13:28:00 - [25] In response to the OP, I would suggest this, CCP could create a few special systems in each reigon, when players enter these systems all electronic warfare equipment is rendered useless. so no jammers, ecm, wcs, dampeners, none of it. i think this would help the game become a bit more fun.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.06.18 14:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Takahashi Arran stuff Sorry to say, but you fail to read and understand the point the OP is making. I bet you don't even have fun when you play EvE...
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.06.18 14:23:00 - [27] Well, you COULD remove warp scramblers and WCS from the game, then severely reduce anchoring time on mobile warp disruptors That should have more or less the same "desired" end-effect. _ New char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Orkaii	Posted - 2007.06.18 14:50:00 - [28] What about making scrambling a chance hit? That is, a chance hit disables your warp engine, and you're stuck in the fight, that chance increasing for every hit you take. So, either you leave a fight early, or you stay in and run the risk of getting scrammed.
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2007.06.18 15:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Takahashi Arran It isn't hard to "know " what minerals are around. infact anyone who is half-way familiar with that low-sec area will be able to tell you - or you can just look it up on a minerals site. Either way this tells me that they are new to the area and so don't know the terrain and the locals of the area well. Given this flying around belts its a dangerous and stupid thing to do. I know exactly what ore is available in lowsec, I have been playing this game for long enough now. So you normally go out in barge to an empty belt do you? A completely unarmed ship warping to a belt that may potentially have been mined out. That's more stupid than checking around in the combat ship that was going to act as defence anyway. Quote: This - combined with the fact he didn't have a warp scrambler fitted tells me that they had PVE setups fitted - given that engaging in PVP is obviously foolish for obvious reasons. Read the post before you answer in such a dumb way. Where in my original did it say I didn't have them fitted? My laser range was 15K, webber range is 10K and 2 point scrams are 7.5K and 1 point are 20K. All of which were useless since I was over 40K to start with and fighting against a missile boat. I chose not to engage scramblers when I closed to 20K and neither did they. Quote: This tells me 2 things. first that he's fitting a 10mn afterburner on a command ship- a silly enough thing to do on its own but that secondly he failed to focus fire- the single most basic pvp tactic in the game. I fail to see the logic in that. A command ship is a slow and lumbering giant. I have enough skills in AB's to ensure that they hardly use any cap. The ship is fitted with an AB to make sure that I can get in close enough to use webbers and scramblers if required. Quote: This tells me he was fitting heavy missiles on his damnation since he was out of laser range despite the damnation range bonus. - this is hadly a great damnation fitting so far- even ignoring the mediocrity of the damnation for this kind of PVP Short range lasers have more damage. It's a bit strange that you rail against having no webber but don't realise that it's pointless having one if the enemy is inside your range because you fitted long range weapons. You also seem to be ignorant of the fact that a damnation has 4 lasers and 4 misile slots across 7 highs. I fit the maximum of four lasers and suppliment it with 3 heavy missile launchers which also mean I can deal kinetic and explosive damage as well and keep all four types of missile in my cargo. You would suggest I fit something else in these missile slots maybe? NOS to use against a passive tanked missile boat perhaps? A command module that gives a massive 2% bonus to armor or shield maybe? My damnation is used primarily for tanking which is what it does very effectively. I have tested it in most level 3's and can turn on the tank and go make a coffee and ignore over 15 cruiser rats hitting me with missiles and guns. It would have taken the combined firepower of every one of their corps in that system plus a few more to break the tank. This is what Command ships do best but mine has teeth as well. With absolutely everything running, guns, tank web/scram and AB, it levels out at 20% cap. Quote: Ok so you have a PVE setup so you don't have a scrambler but no web? What on earth were in you midslots 3 CR2's?? See above. Quote: No its not. Podding is how eve works. Unless you align and warp out in a real PVP situation you will lose your pod. By not podding them your increasing their loss at a later stage when they learn this to some proper PVP'ers. Not that you would ever manage to pod someone from a belt in a CS though which makes the statement moot i suppose. For starters, locking time in anything larger than a frig or maybe cruiser sized ship is almost impossible to catch a pod before it warps. So granted, it's unlikely anyway.
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.06.18 15:26:00 - [30] Although I agree it is nice to have a small scale honerable battle , combat is not about honerable battles where you only use what you need to win... Combat is in fact about winning at all costs (not including log off tactics and exploits etc...), if you face an enemy who only has one or two ships and he has ten, then unlucky for him, you can win hands down without risking your ships and mods. It might not be honerable, it might not be nice, but it is the only wise way to proceed, anything else is just subscribing to the way the power rangers used to fight... Weak enemy appears, power rangers turn up and almost beat him, he grows, they get into there 'zoids' and almost beat him again, so he grows again, they then merge into the big robot guy, fight him a bit while destroying half the city, he almost wins and then they get there sword out and kill him... Now wouldn't it have been more sensible to just get the big root with the sword out right at the start and WTFPWN the weak enemy, saving all the city from all that damage and drastically shortening the episode, which can only be a good thing I might have tangented a little there but hopefully you get my point



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