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Gate and Docking Aggro

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Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.16 20:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 16/06/2007 20:07:12 In light of making aggroing more risky I'd like to see aggro timmers ship class specific. Frigate/Cruiser : 1 minute Battlecruiser: 1:20 Battleship : 3:00 Capital: 10 minutes How in hell did CCP think the whole undock/dock, or aggro-jump type of game is realistic and good for the game?
Frecator Dementa	Posted - 2007.06.16 23:14:00 - [2] How in hell do you think it's realistic for somebody to have absolutely no idea what is going on outside the station when they are docked ? leave it as it is -sig- <-- Passive shield takner
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.17 08:45:00 - [3] This has nothing to do with "knowing what's outside a station". That can easily be done without shooting someone...
Frecator Dementa	Posted - 2007.06.17 12:06:00 - [4] you still have a timer there as well also battleships can be killed in 1 minute by other battleships, so on and so forth -sig- <-- Passive shield takner
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.17 17:57:00 - [5] Not, a battleship really can't be killed by another battleship in 1 minute. It takes more than 1 bs to do that. The whole agro timmer is ********. If you choose to agro something, and the enemy has enough to blow you up... you should die. That's what eve is about. Instead we have a system where people will aggro in something that crazy tanks and never die because of only 1:15 minute agro across the board.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.17 18:00:00 - [6] No. Perhaps a system where your standings effect your docking timer, or perhaps the aggro timer for docking simply needs to be increased... but setting it by ship class will do no good for the game to my mind. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Ephetian Caldari Golden Boys Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.06.17 22:04:00 - [7] Ive always said that it would make more sense to me, for instance... (and this is kinda the way it works I believe) if you GET aggroed and have high sec status sentry guns will help you if they have low sec status. I believe that you should also be able to dock and jump if you didnt start the aggro. Where as the person that starts the aggro shouldnt be aloud to jump or dock they should just be stuck where they are, thats just my take.... "Strength through Unity." "Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head."
FactorzGT Vendetta Underground	Posted - 2007.06.18 02:52:00 - [8] what i don't understand is that if you're the owner of a station in 0.0 ... why would your own station deny you docking because of aggression to a hostile that would be a threat to said station
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.18 04:19:00 - [9] Quote: .. but setting it by ship class will do no good for the game to my mind. I'm not sure why you think that? I think it's bad game mechanics where a bs can shoot a tackler to death, be engaged by a bigger gang, then unagro and dock all without risk. If you increase the timer, then I'd personally be more inclined to try to fight in empire and do wars in general, because that's what the game turns into. A carrier as well shouldn't able to agro completely without risk in lowsec just because it's agro timer is the same as an inty or cruiser.
Ephetian Caldari Golden Boys Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.06.18 08:20:00 - [10] sheesh didnt say it was a perfect idea and of course there would be acceptions to the rule! "Strength through Unity." "Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head."
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.18 08:43:00 - [11] Quote: I think it's bad game mechanics where a bs can shoot a tackler to death, be engaged by a bigger gang, then unagro and dock all without risk. Why? All your trying to do is offer a big penalty for flying a more expensive, slower ship. That makes no sense whatsoever. Look at it from the other perspective: Why should a tackler be allowed to deaggro quicker? Just because it can't tank sentry guns? Quote: If you increase the timer, then I'd personally be more inclined to try to fight in empire and do wars in general, because that's what the game turns into. Docking/jumping mechanics don't change with the sec status. It's the same in 0.0 as it is in 1.0 - the only difference is Concord, who'll get you regardless of your size and sentry guns, which really aren't the issue here. Quote: A carrier as well shouldn't able to agro completely without risk in lowsec just because it's agro timer is the same as an inty or cruiser. It can't. If you can field sufficient firepower, the carrier dies just like anything else. However considering the firepower it can hold and the sheer survivability, it's perfectly reasonable that a carrier could wipe its arse with you and jump out before your friends arrive. That's why they cost 10x as much as a battleship - and that's why they shouldn't be nerfed into sitting at a POS all the damn time. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.18 17:13:00 - [12] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 18/06/2007 17:22:14 Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Quote: I think it's bad game mechanics where a bs can shoot a tackler to death, be engaged by a bigger gang, then unagro and dock all without risk. Why? All your trying to do is offer a big penalty for flying a more expensive, slower ship. That makes no sense whatsoever. Look at it from the other perspective: Why should a tackler be allowed to deaggro quicker? Just because it can't tank sentry guns? Quote: If you increase the timer, then I'd personally be more inclined to try to fight in empire and do wars in general, because that's what the game turns into. Docking/jumping mechanics don't change with the sec status. It's the same in 0.0 as it is in 1.0 - the only difference is Concord, who'll get you regardless of your size and sentry guns, which really aren't the issue here. Quote: A carrier as well shouldn't able to agro completely without risk in lowsec just because it's agro timer is the same as an inty or cruiser. It can't. If you can field sufficient firepower, the carrier dies just like anything else. However considering the firepower it can hold and the sheer survivability, it's perfectly reasonable that a carrier could wipe its arse with you and jump out before your friends arrive. That's why they cost 10x as much as a battleship - and that's why they shouldn't be nerfed into sitting at a POS all the damn time. Why does ccp have an agro timer in the first place. Why do they prevent stuff from docking after they shoot it? What is it's intended effect on peoples actions? I'm pretty sure CCP put it in there to add risk to the whole decision of agroing outside a station. The other extreme is no agro timer, and we can all agree that is a very bad idea. If you disagree with me on that point you are probably too dumb to discuss the subject matter at hand, and will resort to (hey I spend more isk then you so I win in all your ship versus ship arguments) Now, if the intended consequence was to add risk, the risk should actually be REAL. Not "fake" risk. I propose that 1:15 timer is "fake" risk for all ships above cruiser simply because killing those ships in 1:15 requires so much firepower that getting it into system, or undocking that it is near unrealistic by the time the firepower is brought to bear, 60-70% of the timer is up, and you have 30-40 seconds to kill the ship.
Yao Gallente UTOPIAN REFLECTIONS of UNIVERSE E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.06.18 20:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Yao on 18/06/2007 20:37:40 that would only make them stay docked longer and as for the gates the current timer is not bad...actually more than enough imo always....
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 01:31:00 - [14] And people wonder why ccp implements such ****ty updates sometimes. It's because good ideas are completely trashed by idiots like the one above me. You completely don't support your opinion and say something stupid. "Well if you increase AGRO timer... people won't undock". What does agro timer have anything to do with whether or not people will undock. You do not have to agro someone to undock, your point is completely IRRELEVANT.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 01:43:00 - [15] If you're going to be a ***** about it, then I'll be blunt: this idea is just plain stupid. Try this: Stations: Aggro timer increased to 10 minutes for all ships, zero minutes for ships at a sovereign station. Gates: Aggro timer removed, but warp scrambler prevents jumping. There: Problem solved without any of your insanity. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.19 04:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 19/06/2007 04:21:30 No, no I havn't. i refuse to partake in the madness of docking and undocking from a station. That's why I hate empire wars, because they always end up into dock undock games. And regardless of me being $#%$%# or whatever about it. None of you guys opposing my idea have any sort of argument behind your opinions. You just say "your idea is dumb" or use some logical leap that makes no sense. "People won't undock", "The game is fine now", are all opinions that none of you have given any hint to why.
Camilo Cienfuegos EP0CH	Posted - 2007.06.19 05:24:00 - [17] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 19/06/2007 05:24:00 Ah, allow me to make myself clear then: I meant that someone had been playing docky-docky with you, it was self evident from your tirade that you don't believe you'd ever do this yourself - but I digress... Quote: None of you guys opposing my idea have any sort of argument behind your opinions. You just say "your idea is dumb" or use some logical leap that makes no sense. I did, and you conveniently glossed over it. What you propose is to increase the aggression timer for any ship larger than a cruiser. This means that people will be disinclined to take out anything larger than a cruiser for any roaming operation, which means almost all roaming gangs become nothing but fast movers again. Take capital ships; after jumping, you either need a fleet of Augorors, a handy pos or plenty of time to recharge the cap up to jump back out again - they effectively have to wait as long as you suggest anyway. So basically, all you are doing is gimping battleships and battlecruiser... and to what end? What will we gain from having gangs of nothing but interceptors, assault frigates and heavy assault ships? So we have answered your idea, and some of us offered alternative solutions - middle ground - to try to accomodate you. That's why you're acting like a ****er. -- Fix Caldari \| Fix Rigs

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